What's Your Religion?

[DarkHunter]

Since I always haunt this forum in particular, I figured I would restart this thread. Good for site demographics after all. And this has always provoked interesting conversation. Taking time to reexamine our beliefs can yield new insights.

Of course we did that before the hack, but let's begin again.

I'm a Satanist of course (as anybody knows because that's all I talk about). Discovered that four years ago. Materialistic I-Theism with a dash of magic and a romantic passion for life. Indulgence, Vital Existence, and Undefiled Wisdom. All of that.

[MorganaFang]

Golf clap for you since I was avoiding doing this. I didn't want to appear post starting crazy.

I'm not really anything right now. Buddhism/Tao heavily influence my ideologies but all and all I keep my mind open. Live life without thinking too hard about that kind of stuff.

I appreciate religions more as an observer than I'm willing to participate in them just because of the cultural significance and being an all around history/sociology nerd.

[McKitty]

Agnostic. I believe there's something out there, but honestly? I don't really care. Was raised in a mixture of Jewish/Cathoic faith and... beh, religion just bores me.

[WhiteHowlerGalliard]

More spiritual than anything, but I guess you could call me "New Age."

[kathryn]

Christian. Always am, always will be.

[BlackRosePhantom]

Atheist; it's what I've been for 3+ years now and I don't see it changing.

[Lore]

Atheist. I'm also really not a fan of organized religion and I'm very much in favor of separation of church and state.

[Xavious]

For all formal purposes I mark 'Christianity' as my religion. However in all other situations I say I'm of the Christian faith, organized religion is too corrupt for my tastes.

[Chriz]

Atheism isn't a religion.

[Wolf-Bone]

Atheism isn't a religion.

It pretty much is when it's the basis of an ideology. I think true atheism would be anti-ideology as a whole, regardless of whatever flowery language the "ism" describes itself with to try to convince you it's not just another cult.

Anyway, I describe myself as "Rastatherian" - port-man-two of Rastafari and therian. I may yet explain what that means, I also may very well not if and when I bloody well feel like it.

[Chriz]

It pretty much is when it's the basis of an ideology.

What ideology would that be?

[Lore]

Atheism isn't a religion.

That's a pretty good point. Atheism isn't a religion, it's simply believing there is no god.

[Xavious]

Well, its all a matter of perspective really. Religion is defined as the rituals and practice of faith. So maybe if you have faith that there is no god then Atheism is a religion :p

[MorganaFang]

Well, its all a matter of perspective really. Religion is defined as the rituals and practice of faith. So maybe if you have faith that there is no god then Atheism is a religion :p

In before "IT'S NOT FAIIIIITTTHHHH!!!!! GRRR"

[Chriz]

Well, its all a matter of perspective really. Religion is defined as the rituals and practice of faith. So maybe if you have faith that there is no god then Atheism is a religion :p

A religion is distinct from faith. A religion is a set of rules and rituals based on dogma that's derived from a core faith.

Atheism has no rituals or rules and really no dogma. It's just simply the lack of belief in the existence of any deity. It's no more a religion than not believing in the Loch Ness Monster is a religion.

In before "IT'S NOT FAIIIIITTTHHHH!!!!! GRRR"

Well, it's not faith. At least, not in the same way, say, a Christian would define the term.

[Binkx]

Atheist, even if Chriz is right, but meh, it's for lack of better term at this point.

[MetaKittie]

Mostly Athiest.
Why is there no Satanist option?
I demand a satanist option.

[MorganaFang]

Mostly Athiest.
Why is there no Satanist option?
I demand a satanist option.

"Other" is there. You'll notice OP has stated he is a Satanist and chose not to include it individually.

[Wolf-Bone]

What ideology would that be?

Read: Richard Dawkins and others of his kind (and I've had the displeasure of hearing people spew their faith-hating bullshit whose rhetoric would land them in prison if it were about a specific religion - which it probably is, most likely one or more of "the big three" and they just say it applies to "all religion" to avoid being charged with hate speech. So I don't even consider Dawkins to be among the worst, just the more well-kown faith-haters).

I've begun to call myself a political atheist (after Gerald Celente), which means in the tangible world which our five (and maybe six) senses can perceive, I'm at best wary (at worst downright hostile) of any ideology trying to shape said world in its image. Which is what every single one of them wishes to do. I've learned to allow reality to shape my beliefs rather than try to have it the other way around. Not in that bullshit pseudo-Buddhist/nihilist sense of resigning one's self to powerlessness. Quite the opposite. It simply means having beliefs about reality, and my place in it based on reality and, if not absolute truth, then at least personal truth. So, if I am powerless, and every action and even my thoughts and emotions are just the result of some kind of cosmic domino effect (whether that's the big bang or whatever creation myth you can think up), I may have started life that way, but that doesn't mean it'll end that way or even continue that way for however long it lasts.

Basically, my quest in life is to get people to see shit for what it really is, so that maybe they can own it instead of it owning them. It's my "jihad", if you will. And in that scheme, clearly, religion isn't going away. It probably never will because we still have tonsils and a fucking appendix millennia after those outlived whatever apparent use they're supposed to have. So I'm pretty damn certain whatever "causes" the "virus" of religion as guys like Dawkins put it is as much a hardwired part of our makeup as other foreign-yet-part-of-us things, like mitochondrial DNA or those bacteria in our intestines. I've tried to be an atheist, and failed. I failed because any reason for being an atheist was ultimately ideological and any transformation that needed to take place in Iself to be a true atheist was ultimately spiritual.

Ideology is ultimately about control, no matter what it claims to be about. And I understand that many atheists realize this is also true of organized, or rather, institutionalized religion, which is usually what either causes them to call themselves atheists or sustains their atheism. But religion by itself, I believe, is not about control. Nor is simple organization. Religion, at least the kind InI was taught about and sought out for myself has always been about resisting control as much as submitting to it.

Now, maybe it only works for me, but true submission to God for me has always felt a lot like gaining power over Iself, not losing it, and the bonds of wicked men and the ideologies they're beholden to losing their hold on me. And I could be totally wrong about my belief that religion gave me that, but if it didn't, that probably means my DNA did. Atheists at least believe in DNA, don't they? Yeah? So why should anyone tell me not to believe simply what nature's designed me to believe?

[Chriz]

Read: Richard Dawkins and others of his kind.

Saying "the evidence overwhelmingly suggests that god is fictional" does not an ideology make.

An ideology prescribes a way to be, or purports a behavioral or moral code of some kind (some more formal than others).

Atheism isn't telling you how to live your life. For example, Atheism doesn't say you shouldn't accumulate material wealth (or that you should). All it says is that there's no reason to believe those that tell you that god literally exists as an entity. And really, it doesn't tell you that at all. "Atheist" is just a term for someone who happens to think along those lines.

The closest thing it has to a behavioral code is that you should live your life according to logic and reason. But most ideologies would lay claim to that, so I don't see it as being Atheism-specific.

[Lore]

As Chriz said Atheism is not an ideology, it's not a religion, a lifestyle, a moral or ethical guideline. It's simply the lack of belief in a god, any god or deity. It's a very simple well defined concept.

[Chriz]

Now, maybe it only works for me, but true submission to God for me has always felt a lot like gaining power over Iself, not losing it, and the bonds of wicked men and the ideologies they're beholden to losing their hold on me. And I could be totally wrong about my belief that religion gave me that, but if it didn't, that probably means my DNA did. Atheists at least believe in DNA, don't they? Yeah? So why should anyone tell me not to believe simply what nature's designed me to believe?

At least your DNA exists.

[Wolf-Bone]

Saying "the evidence overwhelmingly suggests that god is fictional" does not an ideology make.

The god(s) of any religious text most definitely are fictional. And he/she/it/they are, for reasons known only to them are totally ok with people who are well-intentioned idiots remaining so and believing in characters in a book and not the real thing.

An ideology prescribes a way to be, or purports a behavioral or moral code of some kind (some more formal than others).

Atheism isn't telling you how to live your life. For example, Atheism doesn't say you shouldn't accumulate material wealth (or that you should). All it says is that there's no reason to believe those that tell you that god literally exists as an entity. And really, it doesn't tell you that at all. "Atheist" is just a term for someone who happens to think along those lines.

The closest thing it has to a behavioral code is that you should live your life according to logic and reason. But most ideologies would lay claim to that, so I don't see it as being Atheism-specific.

As Chriz said Atheism is not an ideology, it's not a religion, a lifestyle, a moral or ethical guideline. It's simply the lack of belief in a god, any god or deity. It's a very simple well defined concept.

Don't tell me that, tell your people that. Maybe you don't need to be told the distinction between ideology and belief/lack thereof, but they do, very badly. My beliefs are not an ideology or a religion either. I sometimes have to remind my people of that, but it's sort've intrinsic to the non-ideology to do so when need be.


All it says is that there's no reason to believe those that tell you that god literally exists as an entity.

I don't believe them. I just believe what I know, and that I might yet learn what I don't. And btw, I think referring to god as an "entity" is really only due to the human need personify/anthropomorphize everything. Is time an entity? Does it exist? Do we try to think of it as something tangible even when we know deep down it's probably impossible to truly grasp in our heads let alone with our hands? It's the same idea.

At least your DNA exists.

Tell my Uncle "religion is the root of all evil" that. I tried to explain to him, gently, that I simply can not change myself to look more like the other members of our family, sound like them, be the same build, same color, have the same interests or even the desire to change into them because my DNA is telling every cell in my brain and body to be something that isn't that. His response? "I don't believe in genetics!". Being an atheist doesn't guarantee sweet fuck in the way of being objective and reasonable. It doesn't even guarantee you're aware of the fact there's a reality that exists anywhere outside your own head.

[Lore]

Who exactly are "my people"?

[LV426]

Being God I find you calling me fictional to be highly offensive. I am not fictional, anymore than you are.

[Chriz]

Who exactly are "my people"?

I was going to ask the same thing.

[Wolf-Bone]

Your people are the people with whom you are associated. It's common sense.

[Chriz]

Your people are the people with whom you are associated. It's common sense.

Am I associated with people with green t-shirts because I own a green t-shirt? If a green t-shirted person commits fraud, does my credibility suffer?

You're operating under the impression that Atheists are a group, with shared ideals, goals, and some kind of communication network that keeps us all up on what each other thinks and feels. See, that's more like a religion (such as Catholicism) with is a group, with shared ideals, goals, and a very robust communication network.

I don't associate with other atheists because they're atheists. I only really know one or two. The overwhelming majority of people I associate with are religious in one way or another.

[BlackRosePhantom]

I've begun to call myself a political atheist (after Gerald Celente), which means in the tangible world which our five (and maybe six) senses can perceive, I'm at best wary (at worst downright hostile) of any ideology trying to shape said world in its image.
Wait, you're an atheist when it comes to politics? Does that mean when it comes to any rational decision making, you make them with the bias that god doesn't exist? You do know that politics is just about any decision that could affect your life in which there is more than one possible viewpoint one, right?
Which is what every single one of them wishes to do. I've learned to allow reality to shape my beliefs rather than try to have it the other way around. Not in that bullshit pseudo-Buddhist/nihilist sense of resigning one's self to powerlessness. Quite the opposite. It simply means having beliefs about reality, and my place in it based on reality and, if not absolute truth, then at least personal truth.But reality already affects everyone's beliefs and our beliefs affects how we view reality. When a lot of people constantly act mean to you, you then believe that the world is full of bad people, and it isn't easy for you to trust people. However, if a lot of people are regularly nice and kind to you, then you think that there really are a lot of good people out in the world and will often give people the benefit of the doubt.
So, if I am powerless, and every action and even my thoughts and emotions are just the result of some kind of cosmic domino effect (whether that's the big bang or whatever creation myth you can think up), I may have started life that way, but that doesn't mean it'll end that way or even continue that way for however long it lasts.Do you even realize what you're saying? If something is the result of chemical reactions, then how can that same thing later not be the result of said chemical reactions? As Albert Einstein once said, "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." If this is the case, then how do you make this illusion not an illusion anymore? And just because our thoughts are a mixture of chemical reactions and neurons firing, that still doesn't mean that our thoughts aren't ours.
Basically, my quest in life is to get people to see shit for what it really is, so that maybe they can own it instead of it owning them. It's my "jihad", if you will. And in that scheme, clearly, religion isn't going away. It probably never will because we still have tonsils and a fucking appendix millennia after those outlived whatever apparent use they're supposed to have.One, you should try fixing your own thoughts first. They seem very confusing and not that well contemplated. And to counter your argument, before your start, it is not due to my ignorance to comprehend what you are saying, it is merely my ignorance to see how self-contradictions make sense. Two, religion is a concept, a set of ideas, of spiritual beliefs that can be created in day, or at least within a few months or years (just look at Scientology, that whack job of a religion). They are constantly being changed at personal and public levels due to them being based on ideas and not tangible matter.
So I'm pretty damn certain whatever "causes" the "virus" of religion as guys like Dawkins put it is as much a hardwired part of our makeup as other foreign-yet-part-of-us things, like mitochondrial DNA or those bacteria in our intestines. I've tried to be an atheist, and failed. I failed because any reason for being an atheist was ultimately ideological and any transformation that needed to take place in Iself to be a true atheist was ultimately spiritual.What the heck is Iself? I am an atheist, and I've taken no spiritual paths to do so. I simplely watched a lot of sceintific documentaries that made more sense to me than religion did. Sure, it was a psycological journey to do so, but it wasn't spiritual. It did not change any of my morals, it merely gave me more reasonable, logical reason for them. I had to get over there being nothing after death, I had to learn that manners were more than just a means to bettering myself spiritually, but a means to improve my social life as well as a means to keep society together in general. Atheist is the mere lack of belief in theism. It, in itself, has no ties to morality, but because the theism does, when becoming atheists, we areselves find new answers for morality. Does that make any sense?
Ideology is ultimately about control, no matter what it claims to be about. And I understand that many atheists realize this is also true of organized, or rather, institutionalized religion, which is usually what either causes them to call themselves atheists or sustains their atheism. But religion by itself, I believe, is not about control. Nor is simple organization. Religion, at least the kind InI was taught about and sought out for myself has always been about resisting control as much as submitting to it.See, here inlies the problem. Atheiss don't not believe in organized religion; they just don't believe in religion, period. You don't have to go to any church to consider yourself Christian. All you have to do is believe in the Christian Bible. Just because a person does not practice organized religion does not make them an atheist.
Now, maybe it only works for me, but true submission to God for me has always felt a lot like gaining power over Iself, not losing it, and the bonds of wicked men and the ideologies they're beholden to losing their hold on me. And I could be totally wrong about my belief that religion gave me that, but if it didn't, that probably means my DNA did. Atheists at least believe in DNA, don't they? Yeah? So why should anyone tell me not to believe simply what nature's designed me to believe?Again, what is Iself? And if you've submissioned yourself to god, how can you claim to be an atheist? Also, what did either religion give you or your DNA give you? Power over yourself (which I think you mean by "Iself" which should be "myself")? If that's the case, then neither gave that to you. It's your environment and how you're raised that affects how you preseve your world. DNA might have some influence, but only very little, and religion is just an a experience in our lives that influences us, but isn't in itself a cause of your persectives on life and/or yourself.

[MorganaFang]

aaaaannddddd.... We've officially reached our quota of deterring this thread completely into a discussion about atheism only.

You guys could make a new thread and continue it there!

But let's give others a chance to prattle on about their other ideologies or lack of. :whee:

[Chiron Jackal]

I'm a Thelemite, and other than that I'm a big religious mess.

Thelemically, I believe each being has a True Will and that all True Wills are in perfect agreement (though it certainly may not look that way to some people). I believe it is the duty of each person to find his or her own True Will and enact it.

Part of my own exploration of True Will has been the study and adoption of a great deal of Buddhism, specifically Tibetan Vajrayana and Soto Zen from Japan. Buddhism can come off as kinda pessimistic, so I've mixed in some considerably happier Taoism. That, and I'm kind of influenced by my Tai Chi teacher.

I also celebrate numerous pagan holidays because no one can give me a good reason not to.

[Wolf-Bone]

Wait, you're an atheist when it comes to politics? Does that mean when it comes to any rational decision making, you make them with the bias that god doesn't exist? You do know that politics is just about any decision that could affect your life in which there is more than one possible viewpoint one, right?
But reality already affects everyone's beliefs and our beliefs affects how we view reality. When a lot of people constantly act mean to you, you then believe that the world is full of bad people, and it isn't easy for you to trust people. However, if a lot of people are regularly nice and kind to you, then you think that there really are a lot of good people out in the world and will often give people the benefit of the doubt.
Do you even realize what you're saying? If something is the result of chemical reactions, then how can that same thing later not be the result of said chemical reactions? As Albert Einstein once said, "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." If this is the case, then how do you make this illusion not an illusion anymore? And just because our thoughts are a mixture of chemical reactions and neurons firing, that still doesn't mean that our thoughts aren't ours.
One, you should try fixing your own thoughts first. They seem very confusing and not that well contemplated. And to counter your argument, before your start, it is not due to my ignorance to comprehend what you are saying, it is merely my ignorance to see how self-contradictions make sense. Two, religion is a concept, a set of ideas, of spiritual beliefs that can be created in day, or at least within a few months or years (just look at Scientology, that whack job of a religion). They are constantly being changed at personal and public levels due to them being based on ideas and not tangible matter.
What the heck is Iself? I am an atheist, and I've taken no spiritual paths to do so. I simplely watched a lot of sceintific documentaries that made more sense to me than religion did. Sure, it was a psycological journey to do so, but it wasn't spiritual. It did not change any of my morals, it merely gave me more reasonable, logical reason for them. I had to get over there being nothing after death, I had to learn that manners were more than just a means to bettering myself spiritually, but a means to improve my social life as well as a means to keep society together in general. Atheist is the mere lack of belief in theism. It, in itself, has no ties to morality, but because the theism does, when becoming atheists, we areselves find new answers for morality. Does that make any sense?
See, here inlies the problem. Atheiss don't not believe in organized religion; they just don't believe in religion, period. You don't have to go to any church to consider yourself Christian. All you have to do is believe in the Christian Bible. Just because a person does not practice organized religion does not make them an atheist.
Again, what is Iself? And if you've submissioned yourself to god, how can you claim to be an atheist? Also, what did either religion give you or your DNA give you? Power over yourself (which I think you mean by "Iself" which should be "myself")? If that's the case, then neither gave that to you. It's your environment and how you're raised that affects how you preseve your world. DNA might have some influence, but only very little, and religion is just an a experience in our lives that influences us, but isn't in itself a cause of your persectives on life and/or yourself.

TL;DR

I don't fuck with quote miners. Especially not ones who basically put words in your mouth. If you don't understand some of the terminology I use, don't make up a meaning you know damn well I don't intend behind the terminology and then base an entire rebuttal off that. That's putting words in my mouth, strawman and all that.

[Chriz]

TL;DR

Pot, meet kettle. I usually get about two sentences into one of your posts and give up.

You need to learn to say more by talking less.

[Wolf-Bone]

Pot, meet kettle. I usually get about two sentences into one of your posts and give up.

You need to learn to say more by talking less.

If two sentences is all it takes, the problem is obvious - I'm not giving you what you want, whatever that is, so you've lost interest. And that's not my problem. My problem is with people accusing me of claiming something I quite clearly didn't to anyone who isn't an idiot, and in this case, yeah it took about two sentences to see that's where he was going.

I'm not here to stroke anyone's dick anymore than I'm here to have my dick stroked. That's what Furaffinity's for.

edit: Btw, my posts were made of "awesome win" or whatever when it was about a subject you liked and expressed a POV you were inclined to agree with, regardless of length. So I'm pretty sure your TL;DR moments are less about calling someone on their bullshit than simple bias.

[Chriz]

edit: Btw, my posts were made of "awesome win" or whatever when it was about a subject you liked and expressed a POV you were inclined to agree with, regardless of length. So I'm pretty sure your TL;DR moments are less about calling someone on their bullshit than simple bias.

Actually, the "awesome win" thing was sarcastic. Sorry. :shrug:

[Raiden]

I'm Catholic, but I don't really practice. I'm more of a casual religious person.

Shane

[Wolf-Bone]

Actually, the "awesome win" thing was sarcastic. Sorry. :shrug:

It's okay, Chriz. I too have a tendency to "take back" props I give to people I suddenly find myself disagreeing with.

[Chriz]

It's okay, Chriz. I too have a tendency to "take back" props I give to people I suddenly find myself disagreeing with.

It's funny, I showed this bit of the conversation to someone (before your most recent response) and said "I guess it wasn't clear I was making fun of him." The response?

"He'll see what he wants to see. He's religious."

Works for me.

[Wolf-Bone]

It's funny, I showed this bit of the conversation to someone (before your most recent response) and said "I guess it wasn't clear I was making fun of him." The response?

"He'll see what he wants to see. He's religious."

Works for me.

In reality, that person is more "religious" than me. And such a "religious" person, if they actually knew me, would be more likely to think I were an atheist or at least a lapsed believer or agnostic. Religious people, at least those who know me, on the other hand, know that whatever else I might disagree with them on, I seek the truth. And that means conquering the human tendency to see what one wants to see, which I think a lot of religious atheists could stand to give a shot at. Your lil' friend there could start by not seeing me as they (and most likely on account of you) are predispositioned to see me as.

In plain English: I don't expect an atheist to believe what I believe, because to be honest, it's probably impossible for anyone to believe what I do. If there's any atheists who don't automatically look down on me and my kind just for believing in something itself, it'd go a long way towards me/us not tarring them all with the same brush if they'd actually speak up and take atheism back from the bunch of loud, obnoxious dicks who currently define it. That's what some of us are trying very hard to do for spiritualism.

[Chriz]

Well, ok, I'm about done trying to parse ADD-speak, and we've gotten this thread way off-topic. I'm out.

[Lore]

Moving swiftly back on topic I'd be interested in knowing what the breakdown of Christianity and Paganism is like on the site?

Different sects I mean like Catholicism, Baptist, Druidism.

[Tempest]

Apathetic agnostic, meaning "I don't know and I don't care". If a supreme being exists, it's obvious he's (a) lost interest in Earth and has moved on to bigger and better things or (b) he is watching us sadistically and has no intent to make our lives better, no matter how much we pray.

My views on religion have been reinforced with my most recent excursion to southern West Virginia. I've heard some people on this site say they're poor--not recently but I've heard it. They are not poor. I was in WV for charitable purposes that I won't go into, but my apparently GPS doesn't work well in the mountains (and there are no road signs, by the way, and good luck getting cell phone reception) and I ended up getting lost. I have no idea what part of WV I was in, but I saw obvious shanty towns where one road went through the entire town and people were living in dilapidated trailers with roofs coming down and abandoned dogs everywhere. There wasn't even a place to work nearby, and certainly no college to go to. The ironic thing is that there's a (comparatively extravagant) church like every 500 feet down there. I ask you, with all those people praying for a better life, one that we have and still find things to complain about, where is God?

[Chiron Jackal]

It's funny, I showed this bit of the conversation to someone (before your most recent response) and said "I guess it wasn't clear I was making fun of him." The response?

"He'll see what he wants to see. He's religious.

Do you know how sad it is to be an adherent to a religion that doesn't encourage people to be fully fucking stupid?

It's a tiny minority that no one notices because the loud stupid ones drown us out. :(

[Eagle Kammback]

I am a strong Christian, of Methodist denomonation
although you should have included Catholic on this list, because they have gone so far off the Christian Reservation, they ALMOST aren't a Christian Religion in the true sense of it anymore

[Klark]

I am a strong Christian, of Methodist denomonation
although you should have included Catholic on this list, because they have gone so far off the Christian Reservation, they ALMOST aren't a Christian Religion in the true sense of it anymore

How do you figure? I understand that the fractured protestant side of Christianity has its qualms with Catholics, but both worship God and Jesus making them Christian. It should be noted that I am not Catholic.

[Eagle Kammback]

In the basic sense, yes, both are Christian
however, what the Catholic Church has been doing, a lot of it is almost the opposite of what they should be, and most of what they do are hippocrytical

[Tempest]

In the basic sense, yes, both are Christian
however, what the Catholic Church has been doing, a lot of it is almost the opposite of what they should be, and most of what they do are hippocrytical

Hypocritical. Unless you mean there's a hippo crying and in critical condition?

I'd like to know how one knows what the church "should" be doing, and how one can judge (which I thought was a bad thing in Christianity) who's Christian and who's not.

[Wolf-Bone]

Do you know how sad it is to be an adherent to a religion that doesn't encourage people to be fully fucking stupid?

It's a tiny minority that no one notices because the loud stupid ones drown us out. :(

Get louder. As one like-minded person put it once, try to "rescue God from religion". Not that God needs our saving, but you get the point (I hope).

[Golden Howl]

How one can judge (which I thought was a bad thing in Christianity) who's Christian and who's not.
The last part of your sentence caught my eye, and I, being a Christian, thought I'd throw in my two pennies on the matter (It just reminded me of a frustrating issue). I consider believing God exists and having a relationship with him are two different things. It's frustrating when people don't think deeper on this subject. Since they believe God to be real, they figure themselves to be Christians without a second thought to it. They advertise this to the world, and it creates an atmosphere of shallowness around Christianity. There's a variance between acknowledging someone exists, and engaging in a relationship with them. Satan believes and acknowledges God exists, does that mean he's a Christian? Of course not. Too many people take Christianity so casually and when asked what their religion is, dismiss the question rather easily by saying, "I believe in God. I'm a Christian." Then they continue their lives without any Christian aspects. Ha, some don't even own a Bible.
Just had to voice my opinion.
Christians and Catholics may fall into the same category, but we aren't the same.

[Klark]

Nobody said Catholics and Protestant Christians were the same, just that both fall into the Christian category. To separate Catholics from that would mean that you would need to name each faction of protestant Christian religions, because again, no two are the same.

[Golden Howl]

Nobody said Catholics and Christians were the same, just that both fall into the Christian category. To separate Catholics from that would mean that you would need to name each faction of protestant Christian religions, because again, no two are the same.

Ah, I must've misread the posts. Brain malfunction due to lack of sleep. Yes, I agree; both do fall into the Christian category.

[Lore]

Ha, some don't even own a Bible.
Just had to voice my opinion.
Christians and Catholics may fall into the same category, but we aren't the same.

Is owning a Bible a necessary component of being a Christian?

[Golden Howl]

Is owning a Bible a necessary component of being a Christian?

If the person can afford one, and won't be chastised or physically abused by their family for it, then yes. If you're going to claim yourself as a Christian, then you devote yourself to the practices and live up to the religion the best you can. Without the Bible, important rules and life lessons/themes are not known to the person. Unless, of course they remember every single verse, something will be lost. There's always something new to learn among the pages of the Bible since it is so thick. If I should provide an example; it's like a witch without her spellbook, or a traveler without his map.

[DarkHunter]

Whoever mentioned it earlier, I didn't put a "Satanist" option, because it's one of those minority religions that some people doubt is actually a religion. There's a lot of religions not mentioned in the poll for obvious reasons. And I wanted to preserve the options from past polls. I'm a sentimentalist.

To the discussion at hand. One thing I've never understood is why people will claim to be Christian without ever reading the Bible or really being devoted in a real way to the principles. Granted no one can go around measuring "devotion", but the Bible mentions knowing people "by their fruits."

But even with all the infighting and factions, Christianity is still one religion. Different sects emphasize different points. Like the Catholics emphasize the importance of the Virgin Mary more, while the Protestants disagree with that. But they still follow most all of the same principles. Same basic worldviews.

Some might disagree with me on this, but I see a lot of Pagans doing similar things. Some are reconstructionists and fall outside of this, actually studying the old cultures, but some just take what is basically a Wiccan magical framework and tack on gods to suit their fancy. So a lot of them, no matter who they claim to worship, are just playing the same games.

[Whitewolf]

I was originally adopted and raised Jewish. Now, I consider myself a polytheist Pagan. I also have leanings towards Shamanism/animism. The main pantheon I connect with is the Egyptian. Recently tho I've been drawn to the Norse deities.

[Chiron Jackal]

I was originally adopted and raised Jewish. Now, I consider myself a polytheist Pagan. I also have leanings towards Shamanism/animism. The main pantheon I connect with is the Egyptian. Recently tho I've been drawn to the Norse deities.

I work with Norse deities and I'm a practicing Thelemic magician and Egyptian gods are pretty big in Thelema.

I foresee fascinating discussions between the two of us.

[UNODRAGONE]

I am a Catholic but I also believe and practice Taoism. I am a big hypocrite in the sense I am not a fan of the bible. I have read it, read it here and there now and then but I interpret it my own way because I am honestly against the way some Christians and churches interpret it.

[kudofox1375]

My name is Kudo for now. I am a christian in the sense that i believe in God, and I know he created the world. I also believe that there are spirits of heaven, and nature and hell. I have a great uncertainty as to what i am exactly...i need help.

[MorganaFang]

My name is Kudo for now. I am a christian in the sense that i believe in God, and I know he created the world. I also believe that there are spirits of heaven, and nature and hell. I have a great uncertainty as to what i am exactly...i need help.

Well don't worry too much about it, you have a lifetime to figure it out. ;)

Just keep an open mind and a willingness to look at everything in front of you, that will be a lot of help.

Don't let others tell you what to believe especially if it does not make sense for you. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o)

[kudofox1375]

I'm not sure that helps, i just want answers and security that there are others.

[MorganaFang]

I'm not sure that helps, i just want answers and security that there are others.

Well there are several Christians on the board. But I don't think there will ever really be answers.

Live life and look for the happy, there really isn't much more to it.

[Chiron Jackal]

I know he created the world.
You have no proof. You believe He created the world.

I have a great uncertainty as to what i am exactly...i need help.
Everyone tends to go through that. Just keep an open mind and don't grow so attached to ideas or beliefs that you can't let go of them if they turn out to be wrong.

[UNODRAGONE]

I'm not sure that helps, i just want answers and security that there are others.


If you feel uncertian and do not feel secure then the religion you're in now may not be the best fit. You will have doubts and question things in any religion, thats normal but if it is leaving you feeling not 'whole' I guess would be the right word then I would try grabbing a book on different religions and seeing which one best helps you fill that void. I recommend this book 'Religion for dummies' sounds weird I know but my boyfriend is currently reading it and from what he has told me, it clears up a lot of misconceptions and gets you thinking. Hope that helps.

[Shaun]

Taoism. I was brought up Protestant but as I got older I realized it didn't suit me.

My name is Kudo for now. I am a christian in the sense that i believe in God, and I know he created the world. I also believe that there are spirits of heaven, and nature and hell. I have a great uncertainty as to what i am exactly...i need help.

My suggestion, don't label yourself, feel things out. Just because you believe in God doesn't make you a Christian or Catholic or whatever, just means you believe in God. I would ask yourself these questions seriously. Why do I believe in God? Is it really that important that I follow a certain religion to a T? Do I really believe in God or feel I should believe in him? What are my morals and how do they affect/blend with different religions? You are young, you got plenty of time to figure things out Kudo experiment and research is the best way.

[JoshtheWolf]

I'm a Satanist, but not in the regular sense. I merely believe that Satan is the deity that's always been here; no Christian "God".

I also study other Left-Hand Religions, such as Thelema, Setianism, Dragon Rouge, and sometimes Luciferianism.

I don't know if I could classify it as a Religion or not, but I'm a Furry/Therianthrope. I guess you could call me a Furry Satanist. :D

[Chiron Jackal]

also study other Left-Hand Religions, such as Thelema, Setianism, Dragon Rouge, and sometimes Luciferianism.

You're not a very good study. Thelema isn't a Left-Hand path, you dolt. PS, you're talking to a baptized and confirmed Thelemite.

[Shaun]

I am honestly bewildered by people who claim to be more then one religion. To me, I don't see the point of multiple labels, I'd just state I believe in a lot of things.

[DarkHunter]

I'm a Satanist, but not in the regular sense. I merely believe that Satan is the deity that's always been here; no Christian "God".

I also study other Left-Hand Religions, such as Thelema, Setianism, Dragon Rouge, and sometimes Luciferianism.

I don't know if I could classify it as a Religion or not, but I'm a Furry/Therianthrope. I guess you could call me a Furry Satanist. :D

I'd hesitate to call quite a few of those Left Hand Path due to their concern chiefly with spiritual pursuits. "Left Hand Path" is the selfish focus on the earthly and the carnal. Setians focus as much as on Set as they do themselves and some Luciferians are just as bad. I haven't looked too hard at Dragon Rouge, but they didn't seem to offer anything heart stoppingly interesting either.

Shaun, the fewer labels the better. The worst thing is when people's multiple religions quite clearly contradict.

[JoshtheWolf]

Damn; turns out I typed up wrong. I meant to say that I've STUDIED other Left-Hand Religions.

I'm not more than one Religion.

"Thelema isn't a Left-Hand path, you dolt. PS, you're talking to a baptized and confirmed Thelemite."

Sorry about the mix up. Look, I was TIRED, and was typing up different Religions I've studied. I know it's not a Left-Hand Path Religion.

[J.L.R.]

Damn; turns out I typed up wrong. I meant to say that I've STUDIED other Left-Hand Religions.

I'm not more than one Religion.

"Thelema isn't a Left-Hand path, you dolt. PS, you're talking to a baptized and confirmed Thelemite."

Sorry about the mix up. Look, I was TIRED, and was typing up different Religions I've studied. I know it's not a Left-Hand Path Religion.

Wha... you gotta problem with Right-Handed religions? :D

[Chiron Jackal]

Wha... you gotta problem with Right-Handed religions? :D

Certainly seems that way. Every time I see someone list of a number of religions they practice/study, they're all crappy knock-offs of Satanism or made-up things with evil spooky names.

[DarkHunter]

Certainly seems that way. Every time I see someone list of a number of religions they practice/study, they're all crappy knock-offs of Satanism or made-up things with evil spooky names.

Don't forget all the crappy Thelema knockoffs. Half the Luciferian groups out there seem to study Crowley like Gospel ( :droolbld: ), but don't seem to want to call themselves Thelemites.

[Chiron Jackal]

Don't forget all the crappy Thelema knockoffs. Half the Luciferian groups out there seem to study Crowley like Gospel ( :droolbld: ), but don't seem to want to call themselves Thelemites.

It's partially because we'd hunt them down and scream in their faces about how stupid they are while using unnecessarily sophisticated sentence structure.

Besides, just like most Satanism knock-offs worship Satan (which Satanism does not do) many of the Thelema knock-offs seem to involve worshiping everything Crowley did, but ignoring what he taught.

[NewMoon]

The religion I believe is christianity, because I feel very happy with this religion and I never judge anyone I know or my friends for the religion they have chosen.

[Chiron Jackal]

There a particular denomination of Christianity you identify with?

[NewMoon]

I actually don't really know what denomination of Christianity I'm in.:confused:

[J.L.R.]

I actually don't really know what denomination of Christianity I'm in.:confused:

In reality, that doesn't really matter much. You will have some denominations that try and make themselves more important than others, but 90% of their regulations and such come from their own bias, more than what is actually in the Bible.

[Ryn Dejuren]

Wiccan, =)

[BlasphemousHeart]

undecided nowadays, I was raised Morman from 4-8, but I quickly threw all of that when I started to question "God's intentions or purpose" and earned a rep as an extremly blasphemous tween. I'm kinda glad I've mellowed out now...

[Sanctus Espiritus]

I'm agnostic, put shortly, although there are a lot of religions on that list I'd never heard of until just now. Maybe my point of view will change someday with some research on them, but for now...agnostic.

[Tempest]

I'm agnostic, put shortly, although there are a lot of religions on that list I'd never heard of until just now. Maybe my point of view will change someday with some research on them, but for now...agnostic.

Um, yeah you should definitely do some research on religion. This poll was extremely basic; researching these at the very least will allow you to know what the majority of people mean when they tell you what religion they are. I'd recommend taking a look at http://www.religioustolerance.org/. There are also books on religion, like Religion for Dummies and The Complete Idiot's Guide to World Religions, both of which are easy-to-read guides to the major religions. I don't mean to preach, but you should at least know what religions are out there before declaring yourself one thing or another, don't you think?

[MorganaFang]

I don't mean to preach, but you should at least know what religions are out there before declaring yourself one thing or another, don't you think?

I'm sorry, that's such a funny statement considering how many strict theists (christians, muslim, tribal etc...) refuse to open their minds to other faiths. :p

[Vendetta]

I'm sorry, that's such a funny statement considering how many strict theists (christians, muslim, tribal etc...) refuse to open their minds to other faiths. :p
In the words of many a Jew: "From your mouth to God's ears."

[Tempest]

I'm sorry, that's such a funny statement considering how many strict theists (christians, muslim, tribal etc...) refuse to open their minds to other faiths. :p

Most theists I know at least know what Taoism, Buddhism, etc are in the basic sense, or have heard of them. I'm sorry but I'm baffled as to how someone can be so ignorant to world religions. :shrug:

[Ves]

I tend to believe only what I've encountered or experienced myself... unfortunately I've managed to encounter some really wonky things in the last few years hence I can only describe myself as "other".

In my extended downtime away from this site, I actually nearly converted to Christianity, but a chance happening in Glastonbury, and another in Durham followed by a lot of reading about the Crusades really put the kybosh on that. I did, however, begin to see some sense in Catharism. I'm such a naughty heretic.

I do believe that the power of prayer did help me heal when I had that accident a few years ago (well that and the power of the chocolate that Chriz sent me :) ). Not personal prayer incidentally, but there was a prayer group that my mum knows somebody from who prayed for my recovery and the nurses in the hospital were apparently amazed at the speed with which I did heal - so who knows maybe there was something at work there.

[Jaradyne]

I suppose you can say that I am a Taoist. Since, in my mind everything can be boiled down to pretty simple yin/yang dualism which are the two sides of the same Tao coin.

Of course I dunno if this would qualify as a religion or just a philosophy. As I don't have any rituals or dogma per se. I guess calling something "yin" or "yang" or "harmonious" would need a qualifier based on the core teachings of something. Yet, at the same time I am mostly self-directed in my understanding of these things. However, my views are altered by what I've experienced, read, heard, thought, and felt. Which includes the dogma of others, to which I agree or disagree with, in part or whole.

I'm more unsure if I have a religion now! :confused:

[UNODRAGONE]

I suppose you can say that I am a Taoist. Since, in my mind everything can be boiled down to pretty simple yin/yang dualism which are the two sides of the same Tao coin.

Of course I dunno if this would qualify as a religion or just a philosophy. As I don't have any rituals or dogma per se. I guess calling something "yin" or "yang" or "harmonious" would need a qualifier based on the core teachings of something. Yet, at the same time I am mostly self-directed in my understanding of these things. However, my views are altered by what I've experienced, read, heard, thought, and felt. Which includes the dogma of others, to which I agree or disagree with, in part or whole.

I'm more unsure if I have a religion now! :confused:


Religion is defined as:

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. Taoism is definitely a religion, one I follow as well :)

http://www.religioustolerance.org/taoism.htm

[greggchamberlain]

reformed Druid.

we're allowed to worship shrubbery.

:D

[Haga]

"My philosophy is basically this. And this is something that I live by. And I always have. And I always will. Don't ever, for any reason, do anything to anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what. No matter...where. Or who, or who you are with, or, or where you are going, or...or where you've been...ever. For any reason, whatsoever."

- Michael Scott

[AlphaWerePanther]

i am a proud Traditional Wiccan.

[kathryn]

Just a question, considering Wicca is a religion that formed in the 1950s, how can you be a traditional Wiccan?

[MorganaFang]

Just a question, considering Wicca is a religion that formed in the 1950s, how can you be a traditional Wiccan?

Same way you can be a traditional Jedi ;)

[Chiron Jackal]

Just a question, considering Wicca is a religion that formed in the 1950s, how can you be a traditional Wiccan?

I'm actually not sure it was made in the 50's. Popularized then for sure, but I'm finding mixed dates about when it was actually first recorded as existing. :shrug:

[MetaKittie]

Just a question, considering Wicca is a religion that formed in the 1950s, how can you be a traditional Wiccan?

Its been around a bit longer than that.
It just became more widely know around that time.

[Tempest]

I'm actually not sure it was made in the 50's. Popularized then for sure, but I'm finding mixed dates about when it was actually first recorded as existing. :shrug:

Everything I find says it was founded within the last century. It's a baby religion compared to Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, etc. I think Traditional Wicca refers to the way Wicca was before people starting splicing whatever religions they want to and calling it Wicca. I once read a book on Wicca that said it was okay to make up your own gods and goddesses. Then it gave examples like, the god of traffic lights, the goddess of missing socks. I'm not kidding. Anyway, Traditional Wiccans stay truer to the roots of the religion, as opposed to Eclectic Wiccans who sometimes do silly things like make up their own gods.

[MorganaFang]

I once read a book on Wicca that said it was okay to make up your own gods and goddesses. Then it gave examples like, the god of traffic lights, the goddess of missing socks. I'm not kidding. Anyway, Traditional Wiccans stay truer to the roots of the religion, as opposed to Eclectic Wiccans who sometimes do silly things like make up their own gods.

I actually met a "priestess" that carried that philosophy with her. This woman of course looking like she was perpetually going to renfest.

What I've read of wicca, aside from the religion stuff when I was into it, is that it initially was not intended to be a religion.

Wicca was term tied to the feminine cycle and the different stages of knowledge that came with those cycles. So women who'd given birth, raised kids and had a good knowledge of life and how to get by were wicca. Sometimes there were younger women who developed that knowledge before completing all of their cycles they were also wicca.

I need to go dig out my books for citation of this. Personally I like this version of it better than the crazy religion based off of it.

[WhiteHowlerGalliard]

Its been around a bit longer than that.
It just became more widely know around that time.

The basis for Wicca was around before then. Wicca is a modern incarnation of ancient practices, but since we can't know everything that happened about 15,000 years ago, all it is IS an incarnation.

The term Wicca as we use it now was made just this last century. While the basis is older, the incarnation is young.

[Haga]

Wicca was term tied to the feminine cycle and the different stages of knowledge that came with those cycles. So women who'd given birth, raised kids and had a good knowledge of life and how to get by were wicca. Sometimes there were younger women who developed that knowledge before completing all of their cycles they were also wicca.

Leave it to women to focus an entire religion around their menstrual cycles. <3

[MorganaFang]

Leave it to women to focus an entire religion around their menstrual cycles. <3

Consider it balancing things for all the religions that consider women only being good for bearing children or prostitution. :O

[Chiron Jackal]

I once read a book on Wicca that said it was okay to make up your own gods and goddesses. Then it gave examples like, the god of traffic lights, the goddess of missing socks. I'm not kidding. Anyway, Traditional Wiccans stay truer to the roots of the religion, as opposed to Eclectic Wiccans who sometimes do silly things like make up their own gods.
Making up one's gods isn't silly - making up gods for missing socks certainly seems silly, but in general it's not at all a bad or silly thing to do.

There are two big schools of thought on gods in magic; one is that they are external things which, when called upon, do whatever the ritual is intended to do. The other is that gods may or may not be external, but it is not important. This school says that you are using the gods as a symbol to interact with that part of yourself and, for example, when you call upon a god for bravery you are actually just awakening that part of yourself.

In that last school there is obviously nothing wrong with making up your own gods since they're all just psychological tools anyway.

[Chriz]

Its been around a bit longer than that.
It just became more widely know around that time.

Maybe the 30s.

The idea that Wiccan belief is somehow ancient or venerable is an attempt to legitimize the "religion" (I put it in quotes because it's more like a template for a religious style than an actual religion) and give it the same cultural weight as Judaism, Christianity, etc. It also allows modern Wiccans to claim a certain degree of kinship with the victims of various witch hunts throughout history, even though the vast majority of those so persecuted weren't practicing anything like contemporary Wicca. I doubt any of the victims of the Salem Witch Trials would identify with or want anything to do with modern Wiccans.

Wiccans aren't the only ones to do this. Islam is also full of historical revisionism in order to make it appear more ancient than it really is (Islam claims to predate Christianity and possibly even Judaism).

[Chiron Jackal]

The idea that Wiccan belief is somehow ancient or venerable is an attempt to legitimize the "religion" (I put it in quotes because it's more like a template for a religious style than an actual religion) and give it the same cultural weight as Judaism, Christianity, etc.

That's something I've never understood. The main holy book for my religion didn't start existing until 1904 and I don't feel that this makes my religion any less legitimate than those which have been around since before the common era. Do we have less cultural weight? Yes, but I imagine that has more to do with the fact that we're fewer in number than followers of some of the bigger religions. The same applies to several other religious practices which are old but not overwhelmingly popular.

[DarkHunter]

The basis for Wicca was around before then. Wicca is a modern incarnation of ancient practices, but since we can't know everything that happened about 15,000 years ago, all it is IS an incarnation.

The term Wicca as we use it now was made just this last century. While the basis is older, the incarnation is young.

And here I thought the basis for Wicca was written in 1904.

Thrasher, it's one of the things people try to do. If a Christian tries to justify their religion by saying a good portion of the population believes in it and has for two thousand years, then naturally a religion fifteen thousand years old is more valid. Of course by that logic, that would make cave bear worship one of the most valid religions in history.

I think religions are valid based on the truths they contain, not how many idiots genuflect before them.

Incidentally I make up my own gods too. :cool:

[kathryn]

Weird. So, by what I got, if saying that you're a "traditional Wiccan", that means that you're tracing your religious roots thousands of years into the past and are practicing an approximation of the religions that went on back then, couldn't you say that you're a pagan? Or perhaps you can worship the same gods that were around back then.

Even then, if what I read is correct, the term Wicca is used for a religion of witches, when witches and magic weren't the same thing back then as many people think they are now. In fact what people are tracing their roots to is a bunch of hippie midwives. Sorry, but I'd like a religion where I at least know what the background to it is instead of this mysterious past that no one knows of.

[Tempest]

In that last school there is obviously nothing wrong with making up your own gods since they're all just psychological tools anyway.

Interesting, and it makes sense in the context of magic. I don't get the point of awakening the power to find missing socks in yourself, though. I wish I could remember the title of that book, but it was too long ago.

Weird. So, by what I got, if saying that you're a "traditional Wiccan", that means that you're tracing your religious roots thousands of years into the past and are practicing an approximation of the religions that went on back then, couldn't you say that you're a pagan? Or perhaps you can worship the same gods that were around back then.

To my understanding, Traditional Wicca is following the original religion, but that wasn't there until the '50s and '60s. A lot of ideas are taken from ancient religions, but Wicca is not an ancient religion.

In fact what people are tracing their roots to is a bunch of hippie midwives. Sorry, but I'd like a religion where I at least know what the background to it is instead of this mysterious past that no one knows of....hippie midwives...? It's silly for Wiccans to claim everyone in the witch trials was Wiccan or even a witch (to my understanding, witch does not equal Wiccan). How many women killed in these trials were actually witches? Sure, they confessed, but they were tortured before they confessed! Torture can make just about anyone confess to anything, just to make it stop. I believe that most of those people were just ordinary people. The witch hunts got out of hand and women who were disliked were blamed for everything. So it's a little unfair to call them hippie midwives, and it's more unfair for Wiccans to be acting like the witch hunts were a prosecution of Wiccans.

Anyway, a lot of religions have a mysterious past. In fact, I think most older religions are shrouded in mystery and there's speculation about when it even began (refer to chriz's post). I don't think this makes them any less of a religion. What does knowing the exact date of a religion's founding have anything to do with following it? It's the ideas that matter, not the timeline.

[MorganaFang]

Just stepping into point out that hippie doesn't work in this case because a lot of midwives and people in general lived off the land. Got all up in nature's business because there wasn't actually much of another way to live.

I don't think a lot of the midwives/ wise crones would want to be associated with witches or wiccans of this day. I think it's a modern association that people try to tack on just to add another nonessential significance to their practice. Though it'd be an interesting thought experiment to play out sometime. Modern witch versus their perceived "foremothers"

[kathryn]

Sorry, I just liked the word "hippie midwives" :D

[Chiron Jackal]

Sorry, I just liked the word "hippie midwives" :D
You are forgiven; it's a nice phrase and if you've ever seen a big congregation of pagans a lot of the more noticeable ones really do look like hippie midwives (which is sometimes alarming to see).

Weird. So, by what I got, if saying that you're a "traditional Wiccan", that means that you're tracing your religious roots thousands of years into the past and are practicing an approximation of the religions that went on back then, couldn't you say that you're a pagan?
"Pagan" simply means "one who practices a religion which has mutliple gods." Calling themselves Wiccan is mostly to specify what specific flavor of pagan they are.

Or perhaps you can worship the same gods that were around back then.
Perhaps, but many neo-pagans terribly butcher the ideas of these old gods.

Look at neo-Druids, for example. Many of them are tree-hugging hippies who scold humanity for how badly we treat everything.

Now look at actual historical Druids and their gods: they'd kill things in varying ways (I believe one of their gods was partial to boiling things to death) and then they'd sting the bodies up in oak trees as sacrifices.

Sorry, but I'd like a religion where I at least know what the background to it is instead of this mysterious past that no one knows of.
Start a cult - you can be completely sure of it's origin then! :D

[kathryn]

Neat idea. It shall be known as the cult of K! lol, joking. ;p

[DarkHunter]

Interesting, and it makes sense in the context of magic. I don't get the point of awakening the power to find missing socks in yourself, though. I wish I could remember the title of that book, but it was too long ago.



That is silly. I construct my own personal mythology to empower myself, represent my philosophy more precisely, and explore my own mind. Granted, I find that my own hobbies and interests can tend to be bizarre, but I've never thought socks were so important to merit their own diety.

Though in consideration of the idea, I think Dobby the House Elf should be the God of Socks.

That's why it's impossible to take Wicca seriously anymore. Too many crazies and no central dogma. Though when I do encounter traditionalists, I try to be courteous as they are trying to do something serioius.

[Chiron Jackal]

I've never thought socks were so important to merit their own diety.

Sounds like the perfect argument for why Chaotes need a sock-god.

[Csejthe]

I would call myself a Pagan of no particular tradition.

[Neuri]

I don't have a religion.
I have leanings towards Paganism and Hinduism.

[DarkHunter]

Yes yes, Neuri, that's all nice but why do you lean toward Hinduism and Paganism. I believe we've covered somewhere in this thread how vague the term "Pagan" is.

Is it philosophical? Are there concepts that you like? Do you just like the mythology?

Same questions Csejthe.

[Neuri]

Is it philosophical? Are there concepts that you like? Do you just like the mythology? In answer to your first two questions, I believe in re-incarnation. Recycling if you wish. It just makes sense to me. Everything eventually gets recycled, so why not life, or that part of life that makes you, you.
With regard to the Mythology, that depends what you mean by mythology, if it's the doctrine, then no, dogma and doctrine are the devices of control.

[Vendetta]

Uhhh mythology and dogma are not really the same thing... at all.

[Neuri]

Uhhh mythology and dogma are not really the same thing... at all.Quite right when viewed at the same time. But Dogma turns into mythology as time passes.

[Chiron Jackal]

But Dogma turns into mythology as time passes.
How exactly does that transition occur?

Dogma = rules & tenets.
Mythology = Traditional or legendary stories.

It just doesn't seem like dogma would naturally progress into myth.

[Vendetta]

How exactly does that transition occur?

Dogma = rules & tenets.
Mythology = Traditional or legendary stories.

It just doesn't seem like dogma would naturally progress into myth.
Yeah, that's because it doesn't. I'm not sure Neuri over there is understanding the terms.

[Neuri]

How exactly does that transition occur?
Work it out for yourself.

Yeah, that's because it doesn't. I'm not sure Neuri over there is understanding the terms. Understanding is one thing, being deliberately destructive is another, having a fun discussion is another, which do you fall in to?

I've contributed to the thread, if you want to argue, just for arguments sake, start another thread up. :P

[Raid]

Understanding is one thing, being deliberately destructive is another, having a fun discussion is another, which do you fall in to?

Those are all different things indeed, as is explaining your point, which you didn't do.

I've contributed to the thread, if you want to argue, just for arguments sake, start another thread up. :P

Actually, claiming something that doesn't make sense and responding to a polite post asking to explain that claim with "Work it out for yourself" doesn't contribute much at all.


Also, I'm an Atheist leaning towards anti-theism. So I don't just think religions are all fairytales, I also generally dislike them. (I'll submit my vote as soon I can)

[Neuri]

as is explaining your point, which you didn't do. That is my right not to.

responding to a polite post asking to explain that claim with "Work it out for yourself" doesn't contribute much at all.
My apologies if you find this annoying, but since I've subscribed to this forum, not just this thread, I've been trolled, flamed, and verbally insulted, so please excuse my reticence in any reply as I'm not sure what my contribution would achieve.

Everyone has their own views of Religion, I personally thinks its a means of mass control, which I don't like, therefore I subscribe to my own beliefs. My own beliefs are never going to equate with anybody else's.

Also, I'm an Atheist leaning towards anti-theism. So I don't just think religions are all fairytales, I also generally dislike them.Good for you, and I'm never going to even contemplate trying to convert you. Faith, whatever label you want to attach to it is a Personalchoice.

[Necro Mortis]

Jesus, aren’t people bored of this “Religion” thing yet? It’s basically a spin on morals and primitive civilizations that use fairy tales to explain science. It was nice for a while but now we live in the modern world I think it’s a little trite.

[Raid]

Good for you, and I'm never going to even contemplate trying to convert you. Faith, whatever label you want to attach to it is a Personal choice.

I never suspected you would, but it's good to know for sure.

And don't let the forum rage get to you. :cool:

[Chiron Jackal]

Work it out for yourself.
I can't - it makes no damn sense. As someone who believes that dogma evolves into mythology, you should know how it works. Do tell.

as is explaining your point, which you didn't do.
That is my right not to.
Problem: Explaining yourself is part and parcel of posting. The proper way of not explaining your point is to not bring it up in the first place.

My apologies if you find this annoying, but since I've subscribed to this forum, not just this thread, I've been trolled, flamed, and verbally insulted
Being nice to people who show up and posit things they refuse to prove or explain - it is our right not to.

Everyone has their own views of Religion, I personally thinks its a means of mass control
Governments and individuals have used religion to control people; this is true. And there have been religious sects, cults, and nuts who believe in Helter Skelter who have tried to control their followers. But this does not mean that religion itself is bad.

Assuming that a religion does not impede the life of it's adherents (or cause them to impede the lives of others) the only bad thing about it is that it's members run the risk of being wrong about God, heaven, and whatever else. That applies to non-religious folk as well though, so it's a bit of a moot point.

[Csejthe]

Yes yes, Neuri, that's all nice but why do you lean toward Hinduism and Paganism. I believe we've covered somewhere in this thread how vague the term "Pagan" is.

Is it philosophical? Are there concepts that you like? Do you just like the mythology?

Same questions Csejthe.

I am into the mythology aspect of paganism. I am also interest in culture itself. Foreign cultures interest me.

[Necro Mortis]

I don't have a religion.
I have leanings towards Paganism and Hinduism.

You lean towards Hinduism? I rather thought that the Hindus believe you have to be born Hindu to be one.

[Chiron Jackal]

You lean towards Hinduism? I rather thought that the Hindus believe you have to be born Hindu to be one.

How to become a Hindu (http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/hbh/hbh_ch-5.html).

"Those who follow the Hindu way of life are Hindus. In the Mahabharata the great King Yudhishthira was asked, "What makes a brahmin -- birth, learning or conduct?" He replied, "It is conduct that makes a brahmin." Similarly, the modern Hindu may well state that it is conduct, based upon deep, practical understanding of dharma, karma and reincarnation, that makes a Hindu."

[Noctifer]

For me personally I don't classify myself as having a religion although I do have interest in different spiritual viewpoints.

I enjoy the concepts behind paganistic forms of magick and cherish the earth through shamanism and such and at the same time I also enjoy the ideas behind a few select "satanic" or luciferian points of view.

Does this sound strange? Probably considering most people see anything tied to satanism as involving either hurting others or just being blasphemous and ignorant.

There are people who are not in the right state of mind regardless of where you go; so to judge one culture as being full of morons just because of one person is not only misplaced but hypocritical in a sense as well.

I believe in the strength of science and spirituality, I believe in things most call impossible, and I enjoy every second of my love for the macabre darkness of this beautiful mother earth.

For without it I would not have been able to deal with so many things in life and would have probably lost my mind just like so many people who I have seen waste away trying to be "perfect" because they're told to be instead of accepting their own nature.

Now that I'm done dragging on like that, to sum up I'd technically be classified as a dark shamanistic pagan who shares ideas with certain forms of luciferianism and even hermeticism.

That doesn't mean I can't still be a loveable bundle of lupine though. :cool:

[Chiron Jackal]

I enjoy the concepts behind paganistic forms of magick and cherish the earth through shamanism and such and at the same time I also enjoy the ideas behind a few select "satanic" or luciferian points of view.

Does this sound strange? Probably considering most people see anything tied to satanism as involving either hurting others or just being blasphemous and ignorant.

Those people are typically classified as "Ignorant" though.

While Satanism doesn't exactly fit the stereotype for cuddliness, it's a pretty healthy and respectable belief. I mean, the 11 Satanic Rules of the Earth are pretty understandable and, in reality, the world would likely be a better place if everyone followed them.

[PrairieWolf]

I grew up with parents were who Baptist christians,they made me go to church with them until I was 18.

I don't go to church anymore,being a baptist had lost it's charm.

[jckrussll89]

I worship the Ninja Turtles:notworthy::notworthy:

[Bran Conal]

i guess i fall under paganism, seeing as how i worship gaia. and feel parental connections to posiden and lady brighit(celtic panthion). i am heavly influanced by celtic and greek mythologies. but i take almost the entirty of nordic warrior beliefs, flared with asian martial arts. i concider myself not a warrior for the gods, but a guardian for the balance. takeing the weaker side in order to maintain the delicate balance of good and evil. for one can not exist without the other.

i believe all mythical creatures exist or did at one time. i believe dragons are real, and once lived in this world, before moveing to the next world to escape the ignorant humans that hunted them. i have had my own incounters with many mythical creatures that i feel were full out balls to the wall real. but i dont expect anyone to believe me from word of mouth.

may the gods watch over you all with a ready sword!

[hookedoncandycanes]

I feel a majority of the time that religion has to much emphasis put upon it. Religion (this is just my opinion) is sort of pointless in the grand scheme of things. The earth is so big, so full of things worth worrying about, that it seems silly to worry about religiousness in any way.

I'm a strong believe though, in being a good person. Just because I don't follow a certain religion doesn't mean I don't have morality that governs my actions. It doesn't mean I 'sin' all the time or anything. I just like to call this little thing I'm doing, living life. :)

But I don't judge anyone in anyway. I just want everyone to be happy. So, go be happy! Believe in what you want, I'll support you ;). I just hope I get the same support and understanding back for me... :)

- hoc2

[Chiron Jackal]

i guess i fall under paganism, seeing as how i worship gaia. and feel parental connections to posiden and lady brighit(celtic panthion). i am heavly influanced by celtic and greek mythologies. but i take almost the entirty of nordic warrior beliefs, flared with asian martial arts.
How exactly do you manage that without it just becoming a jumbled mess? Some people are actually able to combine different practices (or parts thereof) into a new, cohesive whole, but a lot of others just end up creating a theological cluster-fuck.

i believe all mythical creatures exist or did at one time. i believe dragons are real, and once lived in this world, before moveing to the next world to escape the ignorant humans that hunted them.
Did they take all physical evidence with them?

i have had my own incounters with many mythical creatures that i feel were full out balls to the wall real. but i dont expect anyone to believe me from word of mouth.
I'd love to chat with you on the topic. I'm a practicing magician so even though I don't run around blindly accepting everything I hear I'm still pretty open to the possibility of weird stories about things such as an encounter with the mythical.

Just because I don't follow a certain religion doesn't mean I don't have morality that governs my actions. It doesn't mean I 'sin' all the time or anything.
I'm always kind of disturbed by people who gasp when they hear someone is non-religious or atheist and just start assuming that they compulsively sin. It kind of makes me worry that the Bible (or other such text) is the only thing keeping them from running around stabbing babies or something.

[Bran Conal]

Did they take all physical evidence with them?

it's not that these creatures took all physical evidance with them when they left this plain of existance, or that others took the evidance when these creatures passed on. in my observations and studies the human mind sees what it wants to see.

a person who doesnt believe in lets say dragons, might come across a large skull with pointed horns (the typical dragon skull) and would say "well its just a new speices of dinosaure!"

now i do understand and have thought about the fact that this mental filtering works both ways. it might just be a dino skull that my mind wants to say is a dragon. but there are enough people in both camps of thought (for and against) to make me not just disregard ether possabilities.

[DarkHunter]

now i do understand and have thought about the fact that this mental filtering works both ways. it might just be a dino skull that my mind wants to say is a dragon. but there are enough people in both camps of thought (for and against) to make me not just disregard ether possabilities.


I think I would definitely be interested in hearing or reading about more of this line of thought. To me (and I don't mean to offend by this) it sounds like nonsense, but it sounds like an interesting belief nonetheless.

[Bran Conal]

how many times have you seen something out of the coner of your eye, and when you look you dont see what you thought you did. or your look at something like a sign or something a few feet away and you think you saw something that you didnt? did that box of hotpockets say human or hunnan flavor? the human mind and senses are not flawless. our eyes cant see on a very large range of light waves, and our ears cant hear a large breadth of frequancies. but we still do our best to inturprit the world around us.

now your looking at something and you suddenly see a flash of light off to your left and look. nothings there, and you can see no logcial sorce for the light to have originated from. are you seeing things? possably. is it possable that maybe you just seen a spirit, or other mythical creature? its impossable to prove if you did or didnt.

take two people one person sees the glass half empty, the other half full. show them a terminaly ill cancer pationt. one will say "theres nothing we can do, make them comfortable and inform the family." while the other says, "theres still a chance, lets get them on X treatment right away."

the human mind only sees the road blocks it chooses, and those it doesnt want to see, it will summersalt right over top of them. so why cant this same case of mental filtering be applied to mythical creatures?

what age were you when your parents told you fantisy books were false, that the creatures and monsters contained werent real? about 6-8 years old? depending on how quickly your parents want you to "adjust" to the "realities" of life? its been scientificly proven (so says time, and psycological(yes thats the mags title) magazine) that children begin to build filters to there world from ages 4-5 to 9-10. and where do children learn about the world? mostly from there parents. so there for the parents tell the kid trolls arent real. so the kids mind will now block out any troll it might see, or change that 7 foot tall hairy filthy ugly troll, to a 6 foot tall dirty, hairy, white male.

these are just my observations, and theories i've read from books and magazines on the topic. now i've had one person give me a very childish arguement on another thread of thought, i want an adult arguement. give me some facts to chew on! lol

[Vendetta]

I believe in the strength of science and spirituality, I believe in things most call impossible
Uhh, you might want to look up the definition of SCIENCE.

give me some facts to chew on! lol
You first.

[Bran Conal]

instead of makeing fun of my posts, how about you make an arguement. if you dont have anything constructive to contribute to this or my philosophy thread please leave me alone.

[Vendetta]

instead of makeing fun of my posts, how about you make an arguement. if you dont have anything constructive to contribute to this or my philosophy thread please leave me alone.
Man, I'm arguing that you don't know what sceince means. I'm sorry that this upsets you, but really, I have YET to see you make any cogent statements.

[Bran Conal]

last time i checked science is the process of looking for, finding, and confirming information about our world and universe. dictionary.com defines it as...

sci⋅ence  /ˈsaɪəns/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sahy-uhns] Show IPA
–noun
1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
3. any of the branches of natural or physical science.
4. systematized knowledge in general.
5. knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.
6. a particular branch of knowledge.
7. skill, esp. reflecting a precise application of facts or principles; proficiency.

science cannot proove, nor disproove the existance of dragons, trolls, goblins, gryfins, and the thousands of other monsters that haunt the imaginations of millions.

your arguements have no substance, there easly proven wrong, and you always try to make emotional stabs to blind your opponit with there own emotions. your a terrable debater.

[Vendetta]

last time i checked science is the process of looking for, finding, and confirming information about our world and universe. dictionary.com defines it as...

sci⋅ence  /ˈsaɪəns/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sahy-uhns] Show IPA
–noun
1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
3. any of the branches of natural or physical science.
4. systematized knowledge in general.
5. knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.
6. a particular branch of knowledge.
7. skill, esp. reflecting a precise application of facts or principles; proficiency.
Whew, thank god you can copy/paste.

science cannot proove, nor disproove the existance of dragons, trolls, goblins, gryfins, and the thousands of other monsters that haunt the imaginations of millions.
Man what? Are you seriously trying to make this argument? So should science also try to prove or disprove the existence of Harry Potter too? The keyword there is IMAGINATION, as in NOT real. Are you REALLY this dense?

your arguements have no substance, there easly proven wrong, and you always try to make emotional stabs to blind your opponit with there own emotions. your a terrable debater.
Emotions? Really? How about this for emotions: I find it incredible that someone who cannot string together words to form barely comphrensible sentences, and who uses the worst sorts of heresy and agruments from "authority", has the gall to accuse someone else of not having substance in their arguments. I really pity the education system wherever you're from, because DAAAMN.

Also genius, read what I quoted of yours...
I believe in the strength of science and spirituality, I believe in things most call impossible
If you don't understand how ridiculous this is then I'm very sorry for you.

EDIT: And oh man, if this is either Saz or BC, kudos on a job well done. I been snookered.

[Bran Conal]

i still dont see a single shred of outside information that supports your claims. all i see is name calling. as for heresy, you can go back to your little religous study group and blow each other. i made no comment till now about your beliefs being "wrong" so dont do it to mine. oh and by the way, there is nothing wrong with the last quote you made. there is strength to science, there is also strength in spirituality. both can not prove or disprove the other, and i have seen, spoken, and just have pure belief in things you obviously deem impossable. there for sir, there is nothing wrong with my posts. atleast mine weather spelled right or not, have some outside information to support these ideas.

[kathryn]

When did a "What's your Religion" thread become a debate on what science can or cannot prove? FYI, people believe what they want, despite whether it can be proved by science. If you think that science and logic is the ultimate key to life, then go right ahead. But that doesn't work for everyone, so don't bash us with your "But science can prove this!" or "Science can prove that!" nonsense.

As for me, I believe that myths are based on fact, fiction is founded in the creativity of a person, and religion has always been the easy way to explain where we came from and where we go after we die, the latter of the two being something that science has only one answer for:

When we die, whatever we were in life is gone and our remains rot and eventually becomes worm food. The End.

[Vendetta]

When did a "What's your Religion" thread become a debate on what science can or cannot prove? FYI, people believe what they want, despite whether it can be proved by science. If you think that science and logic is the ultimate key to life, then go right ahead. But that doesn't work for everyone, so don't bash us with your "But science can prove this!" or "Science can prove that!" nonsense.
Uhhh maybe you should go back and read the last couple of posts. It came up for a very specific reason, and I didn't bring it up initially.

[kathryn]

Uhhh maybe you should go back and read the last couple of posts. It came up for a very specific reason, and I didn't bring it up initially.

Ah ha, see, I read all that. I still don't see how it's relevant.

[DarkHunter]

Ah ha, see, I read all that. I still don't see how it's relevant.

This thread typically moves through various religious topics. Always has.

It's relevant in that Bran Conal is suggesting that there is a possibility that mythical creatures such as dragons might be real, due to the fact that science cannot disprove their existence. This naturally would provoke discourse on the nature of scientific inquiry and whether or not that is a valid line of reasoning.

I've never found it to be. It is reasonable to assume that, lacking physical evidence of something like a troll or some other mythical creature, they don't exist and probably didn't exist. That isn't to say that they didn't, but science has not proven that they have existed.

Now the other way science suggests something to exist is in a theoretical framework. For instance, the suggestion that most of the matter in the universe is "missing" prompted scientists to begin suggesting theories about dark matter/energy. This has not explicitly been proven to exist, but its a theory that could explain a gap in our knowledge and has some indirect evidence.

Of course, I doubt there are very many theories that have trolls and dragons as a viable theory.

My main interest in all of this is that usually people who wash up here from the rest of the internet tend to believe in these creatures as spiritual beings, rather than physical ones. I believe Bran Conal is suggesting that they are physical. So the reasoning behind this (i.e. his views on science and spirituality) are relevant.

[kathryn]

Thanks for explaining that to me.

[hookedoncandycanes]

I'm always kind of disturbed by people who gasp when they hear someone is non-religious or atheist and just start assuming that they compulsively sin. It kind of makes me worry that the Bible (or other such text) is the only thing keeping them from running around stabbing babies or something.

A to the men! In all actuality, I run around the country side shoving babies on spikes! :P

Obviously joking.

I think the bible is such a tainted text that it's pointless to take it literally in any way. It would be like me basing all of my core beliefs and actions off of Bram Stoker's Dracula or something. There's so much missing from it, so much taken out of it by scared little humans...it's just futile. It was written BY humans after all...big mistake.

-hoc2

[DarkHunter]

It would be like me basing all of my core beliefs and actions off of Bram Stoker's Dracula or something.
-hoc2

Hey, I think Dracula would make a great basis for a religion. The moral being to kill your solicitor after buying property throughout London to use as a base to feed on the blood of young women.

[hookedoncandycanes]

Hey, I think Dracula would make a great basis for a religion. The moral being to kill your solicitor after buying property throughout London to use as a base to feed on the blood of young women.

:P Good call! Let's do it right now!

...for some reason I'm not sure how well it'll go off.

[Chiron Jackal]

did that box of hotpockets say human or hunnan flavor?
1, <Insert Soylent Green joke>
2, Hail Eris!
3, There's Chinese-influenced hotpockets?

last time i checked science is the process of looking for, finding, and confirming information about our world and universe.
Key word: CONFIRMING. From your own previous post:
its impossable to prove if you did or didnt.
You have just declared that it is NOT science.

science cannot proove, nor disproove the existance of dragons, trolls, goblins, gryfins, and the thousands of other monsters that haunt the imaginations of millions.
True. While we can logically conclude that there are no dragons based off of all else we know, we won't actually have empirical data denouncing the existence of dragons unless we manage to exist in all places at all times and see for ourselves that there are indeed no dragons present.

However, this does give us license to conclude that dragons exist. At most it asks us to keep an open mind about future discoveries.

your arguements have no substance, there easly proven wrong,
Then prove them wrong.

and you always try to make emotional stabs to blind your opponit with there own emotions. your a terrable debater.
Other than some cynical humor Vendetta's posts are pretty much pure logic. Not emotion. He's logically deconstructed your position and explained why it is wrong.

That's logical debate at it's best.

I believe in Gods, ghosts, fae-style spirits, and dragons. I still side with Vendetta on this one.

[Caladhiel]

I'm only fairly young, so I wouldn't want to ascribe myself a religious or spiritual label just yet, if ever. But I can say that I find myself identifying with secular humanism of late. Currently I feel that to believe in a higher power of any kind would merely be romanticism on my part - I just can't be convinced, or convince myself for that matter, and until I find something I can genuinely believe in I may as well not kid myself. In other words, I'm open-minded :p

[Vendetta]

I'm only fairly young, so I wouldn't want to ascribe myself a religious or spiritual label just yet, if ever.
So far, smartest post in this thread. Kudos to you. I think it's a shame so many people rush to certain religious views (especially if their parents are of said religion,) without first living a little to see if they are actually workable and make sense.

[Vaultdweller]

I would argue that science CAN be used to disprove a number of mythical creatures and anthropomorphic beings, in that said entities are, according to the very myths from whence they have originated, supposed to be visible parts of the world around us. As we can see that they are not, it can be concluded that they do not exist.

Contrast this with say, a concept like nirvana or an invisible, omnipresent deity. According to how they have been defined, neither of these are supposed to be physically apparent, and thus, the lack of empirical (tangible, observable) evidence that might suggest that they ARE physically present does not really prove anything about whether or not they exist.

[Lupa]

I'm a Christian. I was technically raised a Baptist however for a while I bounced around being an Agnostic.
But something happened to make me really believe again, so that's how I am. =D

[josephdead]

So far, smartest post in this thread. Kudos to you. I think it's a shame so many people rush to certain religious views (especially if their parents are of said religion,) without first living a little to see if they are actually workable and make sense.


I agree. Before you decide what ever you may, evaluate your options. Follow what you would like if any you like. Honestly who says your beliefs should be something that is already established. My only tid-bit on acceptance of all is simply, do not hurt others. I would say your self either but its your body. If you do, I would say stop only because I care, but like I said, its your body.

[Aniutuk]

I'm Pentecostal/Apostolic.

[Net]

Wow, this thread got pretty long. Not sure which one I am. I would just say I'm Christian. I believe in God. I'm just too lazy to actually do any of the rest of the stuff. :(

[Cahalith]

I have been studying what I believe to be my truth for almost 12 years. Still in the process of learning, I identify as pagan due to it being a relatively broad and vague term that can be used to neatly label my core beliefs.

I consider myself very much a work in progress, forever changing in response to my perceptions and in turn interpretation of the world around me.

Mainly I am focused on deepening my understanding of the self, and improving aspects I like and shedding those I don't. Insight to the self I suspect can gain my more insight to the world I interact with.

[Shaman Wake]

I follow a very Therianthropy-centric set of pagan beliefs. There aren't a lot of people who believe like me but I find my beliefs to be very enriching to my life which I believe is very much the most important part of a religion.

[NeonLightChild]

I am an unofficial member of the Church of Field And Stream (http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2009/10/at-preyer-in-first-church-of-field-and.html).

Unofficial simply because, like my vote in the "pagan" category, it's not 100%. I don't fish often, I hunt even more rarely, but that doesn't detract from my appreciation for Nature and what She truly is.

I'm a very bad pagan. I don't know most of the deities, nor do I worship them. I know the basic holidays, based on the changing of the seasons and I'm more than happy to celebrate them in a low-key way--sorry guys, no naked dancing around the Maypole. My first venture into it was with Silver Ravenwolf, and while I still have that book (it's unfortunately a very well-written book, if full of shit in most ways), it's been years since I've even looked at it, much less opened it.

I think Cahalith put it best. I'm a work in progress, constantly challenging my beliefs, learning as much as I can about the things in life that mean something to me, and dwelling on the portion of it that can't be explained by any other means than to admit that some otherworldly beings are really out there.

[buzzsaw133]

Wiccan, my family has recently discovered Celtic heritage. The religion has always just felt right to me, kinda like something I've been waiting for but didn't know I was waiting.

[DarkWolf]

Wiccan, my family has recently discovered Celtic heritage. The religion has always just felt right to me, kinda like something I've been waiting for but didn't know I was waiting.
Why the inclusion of Celtic heritage? What does that have to do with Wicca? Most of the Wicca traditions and worship of Gaia (Mother Earth) stem from Ancient Greece not the Celts (which are from Britain).

[buzzsaw133]

Wicca originated in Northern Europe, and we worship the Horned God and the Triple Goddess. Celts were known to be some of the last people to give into Christianity, not to mention being known for their ferocity and stamina in battle.

Not to be rude, but your facts are SERIOUSLY messed up.

[DarkWolf]

Don't read basic Wiki stuff.

Origins of Witchcraft and the worship of Great Goddess / Mother Earth and the Horned God date back to ancient cave paintings over 30,000 years ago. Amongst the oldest civilisations to have a great following of such were the Ancient Greeks. Some witches were immortalised in works such as Circe the witch who gave Hercules a hard time. To them the Great Goddess was Gaia, Mother Earth, and essentially the first "God" from the Chaos to create all things. Following her was her creation, her son, and her lover the Horned God or Sky God, a titan known as Ouranos (Romanised "Uranus"). From these all other things came.

The traditions did not come from Celts. It was practised by Celts, but then, it was also practiced by many people the world over before the Celts ever existed and long after and right to now.

The very old and originally GREEK philosophy of Mother Earth called Gaia and Horned God has recently been translated into the New Age religion called "Wicca".

Hecate, Gaia, Ouranos, the philosophy of Mother Earth creating all things - these are Greek philosophies going back thousands of years before the Celts ever came to be.

I mention Hecate, Goddess of Magic, because she was one of the Triple Goddesses along with Artemis and Selene. To the Roman they were Trivium, Diana and Luna respectively. They were symbolised as the three stages of the moon.

Try a history lesson sometime, kid. To help you I did a quick google search and here's a few links to start ya off.

http://www.witchcraft.com.au/origin-of-witchcraft.html
http://templeofthegreekgods.org/hellenic-witchcraft-and-magick/
http://library.thinkquest.org/28111/newpage2.htm

[buzzsaw133]

I was born a wiccan, my mother was, my father was, I was raised wiccan. I think I would know what I'm talking about.

What you basically said is that Paganism dates back to the ancient greek specifically. Well, good sir, you are both right and wrong. The ancient greeks did practice paganism. But so did the Chinese, Japanese, Hinduists, Celts, Danes, Germans and so many others I cannot even name them all. Wicca worships TWO gods, one to represent destruction and one to represent creation. The male respresenting the former, the female the latter. Learn your history, my ancestors knew this and I know this now.

I can do this all this year and next year if you draw it out.

[DarkWolf]

I've already covered all of that. Will you please actually read the posts before replying and pay attention to what is said? I swear kids today have attention spans of gnats.

Also, you cannot be born a religion. It's a philosophy not a gene. Religous opinion is not coded into DNA. You were not "born Wiccan".

EDIT:

Oh yeah, it helps your case if you also remember what you said:

we worship the Horned God and the Triple GoddessWicca worships TWO gods, one to represent destruction and one to represent creation.
Anyway, as I said, covered that "one male & one female" thing in my post.

[kathryn]

I was born a wiccan, my mother was, my father was, I was raised wiccan. I think I would know what I'm talking about.

What you basically said is that Paganism dates back to the ancient greek specifically. Well, good sir, you are both right and wrong. The ancient greeks did practice paganism. But so did the Chinese, Japanese, Hinduists, Celts, Danes, Germans and so many others I cannot even name them all. Wicca worships TWO gods, one to represent destruction and one to represent creation. The male respresenting the former, the female the latter. Learn your history, my ancestors knew this and I know this now.

I can do this all this year and next year if you draw it out.

Let's make it simple for you.

You got the definition of paganism right (being the worship of multiple gods). Trouble is, you missed the point. It's not how many gods they worshiped that is similar, it's who they worshiped.

All DW is saying is that it's absurd to say that you are a wiccan because you're suddenly Celtic. Guess what? I'm "NORSE". You don't see me worshiping Odin! And it isn't because I was "born" a Christian, it's because I CHOSE my own lifestyle.

Man up and just admit that you are choosing your own life instead of trying to convince us that you aren't even capable of acting or thinking for yourself.


DW, you can't have stuff that long in here! What are you expecting, that us kids are going to read all that?

[buzzsaw133]

I never said I was incapable of thinking for myself, I am broud of my Celtic heritage. I chose, since I could remember to be wiccan, because it is the only religion that makes sense to me.

[Cahalith]

Normally on matters of faith, I try not to step in and speak: but today I make an exception.

Calling oneself Wiccan is almost as broad as saying you are Pagan. Why because there are so many different Traditions, and paths. Wicca is a Neo religion dating back to about the first half of the 20th century- and didn't become popular until the 1950/60s (I am going off memory here. so correct me if I am wrong)with the formation of the the Gardener Tradition.

Calling your believes old is silly, because during the Crusades and pre-Crusades (exact time of this is again slipping my memory) most of the history (temples, statues, paintings, art in general) where destroyed, and recycled to build the new things--like a church for God.

Most of the knowledge is gone, along with the old ways. And before any one goes "oh what horrible people to destroy pagan stuff" its easier to build new buildings with old buildings, and thus did it to their own old temples after the 9th century(?)

Any way- My point is there is a lot of research to be done to know about a faith. Honestly Celtic Wicca is interesting but not the oldest form, and therefor there is more history left (which makes it appear to be old.)

If you want to know about Wicca, (not just what your parents tell you to believe) I suggest you look into a very useful book "paganism, an earth based religion." I loaned my copy out about 5 years ago...still haven't gotten it back :(

but its just stuff, and less important then that person finding THEIR way.

[Vendetta]

Everytime I see the words "God of creation" for some reason I see "God of Vacation".

Now that is a diety I could get behind worshippin. I guess J.R. "Bob" Dobbs will have to do for now.

[Ves]

Not wishing to be picky... actually I guess I am a bit, the term "paganism" is actually a Roman term, possibly slang, that means a person that lives either "over the hill" or "in a field" can't remember which. I.e. it refers to someone who lives a "natural" life.
Technically these days it refers to anyone who worships a non-Abrahamic religion (Judaism, Christianity, Islam).
It's not worshipping more than one god, that's polytheism is it not?

[DarkWolf]

Not wishing to be picky... actually I guess I am a bit, the term "paganism" is actually a Roman term, possibly slang, that means a person that lives either "over the hill" or "in a field" can't remember which. I.e. it refers to someone who lives a "natural" life.
Technically these days it refers to anyone who worships a non-Abrahamic religion (Judaism, Christianity, Islam).
It's not worshipping more than one god, that's polytheism is it not?
Actually it means "civilian" as in not a solider of Christ, derived from "villager". It was originally "Paganus" stemming from Pagus which is Latin for village or rural district.

[Cahalith]

Not wishing to be picky... actually I guess I am a bit, the term "paganism" is actually a Roman term, possibly slang, that means a person that lives either "over the hill" or "in a field" can't remember which. I.e. it refers to someone who lives a "natural" life.
Technically these days it refers to anyone who worships a non-Abrahamic religion (Judaism, Christianity, Islam).
It's not worshipping more than one god, that's polytheism is it not?


Pagan is some one who lives in the country, its actually a derogatory term, when used to refer to some one uncultured and lives in the country. Its calling some one an uncultured "country bumpkin".


Heathen is also the same meaning but refers to people who live in the hills/mountains.

However like most derogatory terms they have been 'taken back/ reclaimed' and used to mean something 'positive'.

but yes- you are right they refer to most other religions that are not Abrahamic religion, and I think some of the other faiths (which I don't remember which are.)

[buzzsaw133]

You know what, I'm comfortable in my own beliefs and knowledge, so can we just end this conversation. Their is always going to be someone who knows more.

[Cahalith]

You know what, I'm comfortable in my own beliefs and knowledge, so can we just end this conversation. Their is always going to be someone who knows more.

I agree that people should be comfortable with their believes, because in the end really it is your choice what you believe.

But it never hurts to learn something new. That was the purpose of what I stated. And yes there is always going to be some one who knows more--I have found that the more I learn the more I learn I don't know. :)

[kathryn]

so can we just end this conversation.

This is a discussion thread. Of course we're going to prick and prod at a conversation until it's just a skeleton. People on the internet are going to poke and prod at your beliefs and thoughts, and while most aren't going to try and hurt you, it will make you uncomfortable.

So if we go too far, just cool off, and try to learn something from it.

[DarkWolf]

You know what, I'm comfortable in my own beliefs and knowledge, so can we just end this conversation. Their is always going to be someone who knows more.
Yes, there will always be somebody who knows more but the key is to take the opportunity to learn from them.

My only contention was you implying you believed in Wicca because your family "recently discovered Celtic heritage". I was merely saying that Wicca is not Celtic heritage because Celtic does not equal Wicca. Now if you had stated your family had a Wiccan heritage - as in a history of following Wicca - then there would be nothing to contest. Saying you have Celtic heritage only means some of your ancestors came from Britain (or to slightly narrow it: Ireland, Scotland (highlands/Gaelic), or Welsh (yr wyf yn gymraeg).

I'm just saying, from one Celtic descendent to another, saying you have Celtic heritage has no meaning to explaining why you follow Wicca.

DW, you can't have stuff that long in here!But... But... I'm longwinded; It's my quirk. :p

[buzzsaw133]

Just saying...

ANYWAY:

[J.L.R.]

Just saying...

ANYWAY:

I'd be careful Buzz as believing in something you no nothing about...well that almost makes you a Christian... or at least like many Christians I find now a days. :D

[buzzsaw133]

O.K. that was uncalled for...completely unnecessary.

[Cahalith]

I'd be careful Buzz as believing in something you no nothing about...well that almost makes you a Christian... or at least like many Christians I find now a days. :D

Hey- I have to say that is kinda rude. You saying that not knowing about your faith makes you a Christian...there are plenty of other people of different faiths that don't know a lot about their religion, and most Christians I have met are actually really good people, who happen to fallow their holy books teachings.

Its not the religion that makes people bad, its their choice to do bad things.

I have read several different holy books, and can find similarity in all of them including some of the Pagan teachings. All religions have their own wisdom, people are just too blind to see it.

If my history serves me Emperor Nero of Rome, not only killed but tortured thousands of Christians?

it drives me crazy when people say/imply how their religion was the only one that has suffered. And that they think that their religion was the only one that has caused no harm....

People make their choice separate from their religion- but use faith as an excuse as to justify their wrong doing.

[Vendetta]

I'd be careful Buzz as believing in something you no nothing about...well that almost makes you a Christian... or at least like many Christians I find now a days. :D
J.L.R. just lit the Vendetta symbol!

[DarkWolf]

O.K. that was uncalled for...completely unnecessary.So was your post above that was completely dismissive of input from anyone else like a kid sticking fingers in their ears going "la la la I can't hear you so you're wrong!" His post was a light joke while yours was blatant disrespect and immature.

Hey- I have to say that is kinda rude. You saying that not knowing about your faith makes you a Christian...Actually for him it does. His post is a joke, self-deprecating humour because J.L.R. IS a Christian. :p

And I agree with him though. Firstly that it is important to actually know and learn about the faith you believe in and also because even though I have spoken to people of many varying religions the ones that fit his description the most were Christians. Also, there was a study to test people's knowledge of their own religion and it was concluded that of all the religions, people following Christianity seemed to score the worst. It was posted in the Athiest discussion thread by Vendetta, here's his post:

Thought this was interesting enough to share with you folks. Apparently a new survey on religious knowledge from the Pew Research Center found that atheists, agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest scoring (i.e. they knew the most about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions,) outperforming evangelicals, Protestants and Catholics. Atheists and agnostics scored the highest though out of all of them.


Here's the report from the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life (http://pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-and-Practices/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey.aspx)

[Cahalith]

Actually for him it does. His post is a joke, self-deprecating humour because J.L.R. IS a Christian. :p

And I agree with him though. Firstly that it is important to actually know and learn about the faith you believe in and also because even though I have spoken to people of many varying religions the ones that fit his description the most were Christians. Also, there was a study to test people's knowledge of their own religion and it was concluded that of all the religions, people following Christianity seemed to score the worst. It was posted in the Athiest discussion thread by Vendetta, here's his post:


I understand that you say J.L.R is a Christian- I just think bashing religions as a general statement is kinda uncalled for. Even if it is your own.

And yes a great deal of people don't know about their faith- Christian or not. And yes the study you pointed to showed me that Christians don't know a great deal about their own religion-

And I still find it rude. I guess its because of my belief in choice. We have the ability to chose to say or do what we want. we have the ability to stay ignorant or learn.

I guess what I am saying is that people choose, if some one doesn't learn about their believes, and are just blindly fallowing the herd like cattle--then they really don't honestly believe it.

To know truth, is to seek it out to find it. Not just blindly do as your told. to just do and believe what others tell you isn't really truly faith...Its just trying to fit in.

But of course that is really a very dangerous statement to make- that the millions of people who don't know a darn about what they believe means they really don't believe it.

And of course one haves to through in there what Is truth? what is real? and does it differ from person to person? and can we really say what is real and true for another person?

[buzzsaw133]

Like I said...I will worship as I see fit (Thank you 1st Amendment) and I will thank u to not try to change my beliefs. I am rooted firmly in Wicca and there is VERY little chance that I will change. So, for the love of all things holy, Wiccan, Christian, Muslim, etc...

Let it go!

[DarkWolf]

*facepalm*

Buzzsaw133, what the fluff are you on about?

I will worship as I see fitNobody is suggesting otherwise.

I will thank u to not try to change my beliefsNobody is trying to.

I am rooted firmly in WiccaNobody is denying that.

Seriously, why aren't you reading posts before responding to them?

[GhostBat]

To know truth, is to seek it out to find it. Not just blindly do as your told. to just do and believe what others tell you isn't really truly faith...Its just trying to fit in.

I thought believing in something without having proof, i.e. not searching out knowledge, was the very definition of faith. *shrugs*

[Cahalith]

I thought believing in something without having proof, i.e. not searching out knowledge, was the very definition of faith. *shrugs*

*smiles* good point and thank you for pointing that out.

To know truth, is to seek it out to find it. Not just blindly do as your told. to just do and believe what others tell you isn't really truly faith...Its just trying to fit in.

What message I was meaning to convey is: One dosen't find faith or truth just by listening what other people say.

They find it by searching for themselves. Sometimes what is true can't be proven to any one outside the self- it is something that is felt, but in order to feel something don't you have to experiences that feeling? Not just go off of some one gives you an convincing depiction or explanation of a feeling.

If you where to describe the wind to some one who had no concept of wind, how would you describe the wind and prove its existence? Could you?

But if a whole group of people told this person that wind was real and that it was socially deviant to not believe that this was real, wouldn't it be much easier to get some one to "believe"

I guess what I am saying is there is a difference between True Faith and Faith by Conditioning.

Growing up I was raised without any religion, though my parents where Christan. They wanted me to find God on my own, because when you find Him yourself then you will believe in Him because that is your Truth.

I am hoping that makes sense and clarifies what I was trying to say.

[GhostBat]

They wanted me to find God on my own, because when you find Him yourself then you will believe in Him because that is your Truth.

I am hoping that makes sense and clarifies what I was trying to say.

I guess my point is that there is no "your truth". There is only truth. People can be, and often are, wrong. People can also be right. If you take someone's word, you might be doing so because you have faith in them or because they have proven themselves to be knowledgeable in the past. In either case, listening to that person can absolutely lead you to truth if what they say is accurate.

How do know that we are made of atoms? Did you do the research yourself? Have you seen an atom and studied its properties? Or did you listen to someone who you knew was knowledgeable in that field? Is nothing "true" if you haven't studied it yourself?

Faith is a bit trickier, because anyone you listen to regarding faith has no more knowledge than you do. Does that mean that you can only search within yourself to find faith? In my opinion, no. I see no difference between faith and blind faith, because faith is blind. Whether you search within yourself or listen to someone else regarding faith, you're no more closer to truth. The probability that you're "right" in either case is unchanged, because faith is not based in fact. Therefore, there is no truth to faith.

I can't say whether one method of acquiring faith leads someone to "believing" in that faith more than the other. That must surely depend on the person. It's overall an odd concept for me, as I tend not to hold faith in any religious or spiritual aspect.

[Cahalith]

GhostBat- though I may not agree with what you are saying, I really appreciate it. It makes me think, I like how you look at things. Logical and clean cut.

But I do disagree that there is more then one truth, and it can contradict someone else form of truth- and that is where I am being blindly faithful.

So in a way I do agree with you, that you have to have a moment of blindness to have faith.

[buzzsaw133]

Well, Hello and Goodbye, you b*st*rds!

[kathryn]

And I agree with him though. Firstly that it is important to actually know and learn about the faith you believe in and also because even though I have spoken to people of many varying religions the ones that fit his description the most were Christians. Also, there was a study to test people's knowledge of their own religion and it was concluded that of all the religions, people following Christianity seemed to score the worst.

It doesn't help the fact that Christianity doesn't exactly call for thinking for oneself... as they say, we are supposed to be sheep in the flock. Not the smartest of creatures. ;p

Let it go!

Bejeezus man, asking that is worst than asking DW not to write long posts!

Well, Hello and Goodbye, you b*st*rds!

Who spat in your morning coffee? We aren't asking you to change your beliefs or who you are. Besides, we've long stopped picking on you.

[J.L.R.]

Wow I love the fact that I can say a few words and incite so much discussion... :beerchug:

In truth I wasn't aware I was bashing anybody. I simply stated a little known fact. A good 80% or maybe even 90% of the adherents of my faith, haven't even read the Bible. I've been to massive Christian gatherings with 20k attendents and had a paster give a sermon that was completely unbiblical. I'm not judging anyone based upon my standards... but what is based upon the foundation the Old/New Testament gives. If Christians were to use the Bible as their standard, you wouldn't even have Catholics as much of what they believe isn't even in the Bible (Dewry Translation).

I wasn't bashing Christianity or Christians, but challenging the accepted trend that I'm seeing...

It's always amazed me, for example, how many Christians will scream outrage over homosexuals, and yet go home and go to bed with their girl friend/boy friend (of whom they're not married to ergo FORNICATION) of which (Biblically speaking) is just as wrong.

Amazing really...

The point is this... if you were to go buy a car you don't simply go up to the dealer... look at the first car you see, hand over the money, and its a done deal. If you are smart, you're going to look into it. You don't know anything about that pretty car on the lot. You're going to find out as much as you can, so that you can make an educated purchase... ergo you don't get screwed.

As for Buzz... I don't know you personally, and the only thing that we do know is based upon what you post. Based upon your posts, you have shown that you have very little knowledge of Wicca (itself). This has already been addressed by several of my fellow WW.comers. If we are misunderstanding what you are implying, then if I were you, I would go over what you're posting before you post.

[Cahalith]

J.L.K- you make a lot of very good and valid points, and I appreciate your clarification.

I just noticed a habit of mine, If I feel some one a group or individual getting picked on I have this weird sense that I have to defend it(even if/when i agree), or in some way point out why the person doing the picking is being rude or naive. SPECIALLY when I agree.

I realize now after the clarification that being rude/disrespectful was not you intention and I know it doesn't matter but I can now accept what you said originally.

And I really appreciate the discussion. IT was in many ways very insightful and a good chance for me to look at some stuff at a different perspective.

thank you :D

[J.L.R.]

J.L.K- you make a lot of very good and valid points, and I appreciate your clarification.

I just noticed a habit of mine, If I feel some one a group or individual getting picked on I have this weird sense that I have to defend it(even if/when i agree), or in some way point out why the person doing the picking is being rude or naive. SPECIALLY when I agree.

I realize now after the clarification that being rude/disrespectful was not you intention and I know it doesn't matter but I can now accept what you said originally.

And I really appreciate the discussion. IT was in many ways very insightful and a good chance for me to look at some stuff at a different perspective.

thank you :D

It's... J.L.R.... :P

[GhostBat]

But I do disagree that there is more then one truth, and it can contradict someone else form of truth...

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. :p

[Shaman Wake]

Like I said...I will worship as I see fit (Thank you 1st Amendment) and I will thank u to not try to change my beliefs. I am rooted firmly in Wicca and there is VERY little chance that I will change.

Wait, what? No one told you to change your beliefs, just get the facts right about when and where it originates and from what older religions it draws from.

And if you're so firmly rooted in Wicca, why don't you know about it? Because while it is indeed from Northern Europe as you claimed, it's adherents were not the last to give in to Christianity. They couldn't have been. Wicca was developed long after Christianity arrived in the area. (http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_hist.htm)

It's great that you're proud of your heritage (everyone should be, I think) but indicating that being Wicca makes sense because you are of Celtic decent, well, doesn't actually make that much sense. Even if you happen to live in the Celtic Isle Wicca isn't a very good representation of your culture. In other words, your heritage totally has nothing to do with what religious beliefs will make sense to you.

So take a chill-pill and blessed be.

[Cahalith]

J.L.R. *smiles* My mistake, thank you for correcting me! *laughs* I do apologize specially because I had looked at it prior to double check that the name was correct.

GhostBat- Maybe your right- what do you think it means? The funny thing about words is though there is a definition that every one should adhere to doesn't mean it actually happens.

I know its a .com site (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/truth)(which I try not to use.)

and after reading the above definition I find myself wondering: what would be a better word for what I am trying to say? *smiles* I am not that great at using words as they are intended to be used.

[Kagusaki]

Ehh way to long to read everything but I'll just post what I am ^^ I'm a mixture of buddhist and pagan although I haven't practiced for a while.

[GhostBat]

GhostBat- Maybe your right- what do you think it means? The funny thing about words is though there is a definition that every one should adhere to doesn't mean it actually happens.

I know its a .com site (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/truth)(which I try not to use.)

and after reading the above definition I find myself wondering: what would be a better word for what I am trying to say? *smiles* I am not that great at using words as they are intended to be used.

Truth is the conformity with reality, and reality is something that exists completely independent of any ideas concerning it. You can think that all elephants are pink, and you can call it your truth, but that's not reality and you'd be wrong.

I am fully aware that by not believing in God, I could be wrong and find myself in any number of Biblical hells when I die. People who believe in God or gods can also be wrong. We can all be wrong. We can't all be right.

I don't know if I can correctly pick the word you're looking for, but it seems like you're speaking about perception. There is one reality, but there are millions of different perceptions regarding that reality. My perception of how the world works is different from that of my husband's. That means one of us is more right than the other. :p

[Cahalith]

GhostBat-
*smiles* you might be right, and you might be wrong and I really admire you're ability to admit that that is a possibility.

Perception is indeed a big influence of how we see things. In fact it reminds me a couple of pages back, how messages where being sent, received and interpreted. Not necessarily how they where intended.

We take in information and view it from our own perspectives. To attempt to see it from others is hard, difficult and we don't/won't really see it entirely as the other person does.

I have spent many years practicing just that- seeing things from other peoples angles. (don't always do a good job but I try :p)

Every person has their own filters that sorts kept and 'throw away' data. I am aware that my filters tend to throw away data that disproves the existence of Multiple layers of reality, Which is because for me I find that everything is based off of some truth (no matter how small/distorted that truth has become), and the theory that there are more then one layer of existent, allows for my to see that that view or perspective is a possiblity.

Now the point- Perceptions are what filters, and in some cases stores truth/reality as it is- and in other cases changes and mutates it.

We as people choose who we want to be, we choose what we want to believe, and see what we want to see. In the end are we really just simply series of chooses?

[DarkWolf]

Ehh way to long to read everything but I'll just post what I am ^^ I'm a mixture of buddhist and pagan although I haven't practiced for a while.
Buddhism IS Pagan.

[Chriz]

My perception of how the world works is different from that of my husband's. That means one of us is more right than the other. :p

No comment.

[Vendetta]

My perception of how the world works is different from that of my husband's. That means one of us is more right than the other. :pNo comment.
I suppose it could be argued that you could be both equidistant from being "right/wrong". :D

[J.L.R.]

I suppose it could be argued that you could be both equidistant from being "right/wrong". :D

Or we could just face the fact that Ghosty is going to be right. :D

[GhostBat]

As much as I'd love for everyone to continue discussing how right I truly am... let's get back on topic. :p

[Cahalith]

So what exactly does every one define as a Religion? And how does that differ from a philosophy?

[DarkWolf]

Religion is a philosophy. But philosophy is grander in scale - it is a logical or rational view of seeking truths, the metaphysical, and existence in general.

Religion is a philosophical set of beliefs regarding the metaphysical and creation of the universe often as a result of a deified thing (Gods and such).

Or, to simply; "philosophy" is just generally talking about what cannot yet be (un)proven and religion is believing it.

[Cahalith]

Religion is a philosophy...

Or, to simply; "philosophy" is just generally talking about what cannot yet be (un)proven and religion is believing it.

I think that is an interesting way to look at it. I ask this question because I have a friend who told me a few days back that she was Christian, but fallowed a Buddhist Philosophy.

it boggled my mind- and when I asked her to explain it she simply replayed

I believe in God and Jesus Christ, He is our Lord and Savior but I also believe in the ideas behind Buddhism

This confused me more- I asked her which particular path was she fallowing of Buddhism?

kind that lead to self enlightenment

This was the first time that I hung up the phone up on her. It again boggles my mind-

In Buddhism there are many paths that assist you in retching self enlightenment- Zen, Tibetan (to name a few)

And like the copy of the Qu'ran, and Bible I own I have found similarity in the teachings and basic ideas of laws and rules that allow you to reach Heaven.

Can it be said that enlightenment is the equivalent to Heaven?
and
Buddha the Buddhist equivalent to Jesus?

And what if ones Philosophy deviates from their Religions ideals?

:o:confused:

[GhostBat]

I wouldn't hang up on your friend for something as silly as that. Besides, a lot of the teachings of Jesus are very similar to the teachings of Buddha. They are not at odds.

And like the copy of the Qu'ran, and Bible I own I have found similarity in the teachings and basic ideas of laws and rules that allow you to reach Heaven.

Religions around the world share similarities because they all stole stories and ideas from one another. :p

Can it be said that enlightenment is the equivalent to Heaven?

No, not really. Heaven in the Bible is an eternity worshipping God while not caring about your loved ones except for how incredible it is that you agree that God is great. Oh, and you also have to be dead. Enlightenment is complete understanding of the connectedness of all entities in the universe. You have transcended ignorance, suffering, etc. Enlightenment is a journey, while heaven is just a place everyone who was lucky enough to be created by God not to be skeptical and believe in Him go when they keel over. This is a gross simplification, however...of enlightenment.

Buddha the Buddhist equivalent to Jesus?

No, because people didn't pretend that Buddha was God, at least not in the original essence of Buddhism.

[Cahalith]

I didn't hang up over the conversation subject, more of the fact that she kept saying the same thing over and over and it was not making her point, its takes me time to processes information specially when my view point doesn't align with theirs.

I didn't think the teachings where that different, hence a lot of my questions.

your explanation for how heaven is different from enlightenment- so in theory she could find enlightenment in life and heaven in the afterlife. I want to understand her better so I can be more supportive (I know it sounds weird, specially after having hung up she knows its processing time)

Thank you- I am not familiar with the teaching of Buddha so I was kinda like (what? how does this work?) and then reading about it online confused me more (specially there was a particular theme i was wondering about.

[GhostBat]

your explanation for how heaven is different from enlightenment- so in theory she could find enlightenment in life and heaven in the afterlife. I want to understand her better so I can be more supportive (I know it sounds weird, specially after having hung up she knows its processing time)


Yes. The Buddha reached enlightenment and was able to teach others how to find enlightenment as well, in life. Once you reach enlightenment, you never have to be reborn again (which is a relief), because you've learned everything that you needed to learn. When your friend says she's a Christian but follows a Buddhist philosophy, I think she means that she believes what the Bible says about Jesus and the afterlife, etc., but that she also tends to follow a lot of Buddhist beliefs in life. By Buddhist beliefs, I mean things like looking within yourself to find inner peace and connect with the universe (meditation), detaching yourself from physical desires (ridding yourself of selfishness and worldliness), helping others, etc.

[Shaman Wake]

Once you reach enlightenment, you never have to be reborn again (which is a relief), because you've learned everything that you needed to learn.
As a fun note; just because you no longer need to be incarnated doesn't mean you can't be. Those who attain enlightenment and then stop being reborn are called Buddhas, but there are also those who refuse to leave this world until everyone else is enlightened too and these folks are called bodhisattvas.

[GhostBat]

...but there are also those who refuse to leave this world until everyone else is enlightened too and these folks are called bodhisattvas.

They're also called crazy. :D

[whitewolf]

I'm a polytheist Pagan. I have leanings towards Shamanism.

[Chriz]

I'm a polytheist Pagan. I have leanings towards Shamanism.

Man, Shamans are so OP.

[Aerostel Trethiraz]

As for me, I am Christian but I would be Catholic if my grandmother had her way. If I didnt think that the way that my grandma lives her life, maybe I wouldn't see the catholic way of life so corrupt.

My grandmother thinks that every other religion is a bunch of baloney and that Atheists are just people who are too stupid to believe in god and she also says that they will go to hell when they die.

I know this can't be true because we have a coupoe of atheists on this site and I am pretty sure they know more then my grandma will ever know.

In other words, she isnt very nice to people who arent catholic or atleast christian which I hope she gets over because my girlfriend is jewish and I'm pretty sure she is gonna be around for awhile.

[wolf]

I'm Christian, but I am leaning towards Wicca.

[GhostBat]

My grandmother thinks that every other religion is a bunch of baloney and that Atheists are just people who are too stupid to believe in god and she also says that they will go to hell when they die.

I know this can't be true because we have a coupoe of atheists on this site and I am pretty sure they know more then my grandma will ever know.

Derp?

Anyway... :p

I haven't answered the poll question because answering "atheist" when someone asks what religion I practice makes no sense. I also think the "agnostic" choice is silly. You're not just agnostic. You're either an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist (or a gnostic atheist/theist). (http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/09/25/8419/)

[wolf]

By the way is anyone surprised that no one here is Jewish or a Hindu?

[Vendetta]

Religiously? No.

[Rylias Shadow]

<-- Is Wiccan. Blessed be. ;)

[Aerostel Trethiraz]

I lean more towards hinduism then christianity in the way of life id like to be leading but i only selected christianity because I go to church and pray a lot.

[Vendetta]

Welcome to the Religion Smorgasbord!