Guardians of Luna: An Update...

[J.L.R.]

http://news.toonzone.net/articles/30275/briefly-new-guardians-of-luna-site-animation-in-process-get-stoked-tour

Yet another Guardians of Luna update... The official Guardians of Luna site is up and running, not much, as far as content goes just yet, but Cybergraphix's is stressing that as soon as new content is ready, they will be posting it there.

In the meantime, if you would like to recieve updates, you certainly can. Just submit your e-mail addy...

In case anybody doesn't know, "Guardians of Luna" is a new animated series starring... you guessed it WEREWOLVES! The series has seen some ups and downs as it is traded asthestics from a traditional american styled animation, much like what was used in the Batman: Animated series, to a more traditional anime look. In fact the series will be animated in Japan, while be scripted here in the states by famed screenwriter, Michael Reeves.

From what I've seen it will be AWESOME!

[Wolf-Bone]

I stopped giving a shit a while back. I'm sorry, I don't care if it's about werewolves. I can't get behind yet another casualty of the battle we're losing to save our artform, the one we invented being lost to those people.

edit: Y'know, it could've been exported to us, y'know, those ethnically ambiguous folks to your North. But what, now even we're too cheap and you'll go back to the fucking drawing board just so the Asians can do it?

I don't know why we even bother. Canadians need to start doing it for Canadians because our American masters need to have their dog sodomize them for a change.

[J.L.R.]

I stopped giving a shit a while back. I'm sorry, I don't care if it's about werewolves. I can't get behind yet another casualty of the battle we're losing to save our artform, the one we invented being lost to those people.

edit: Y'know, it could've been exported to us, y'know, those ethnically ambiguous folks to your North. But what, now even we're too cheap and you'll go back to the fucking drawing board just so the Asians can do it?

I don't know why we even bother. Canadians need to start doing it for Canadians because our American masters need to have their dog sodomize them for a change.

Um... soapbox much...

They didn't make the decision to change it from the "American style" to the "Japanese style" because they believed the style was better. The decision was based upon global oppertunities that anime offered over traditional American style. It's common sense... You're gonna make more money.

[Wolf-Bone]

You haven't studied the history and practice of animation the way I have so you wouldn't understand why 1) our way is indeed superior to theirs and 2) their way, and the "global opportunities" as you put it are making it so that guys like me may as well have not studied animation in the first place and we should all work at Wal-Mart during the day and jerk off to anime by night.

By that same token, stop stealing my damn catchphrases.

edit: actually, scratch that. You shouldn't have to have gone to school for three or four years just to be able to understand how integral western art is to western culture and why it's important we preserve it. That is just Common Sense.

[J.L.R.]

What this... what do I hear... OMG! It's a violin...

Dude, I have friends in the animation business... one of my friends actually was laid off a few years back, but he has successfully rebounded and is now currently working as a story board artist for the fine folks who make "Family Guy" as well as developing his own animation projects. He still loves anime. In fact almost all the professional animators that I know do. They readily appreciate the style and the stories told with it.

I kid you not, it isn't anime that is killing Western Animation, it is the beaucracy of the United States and film making in general. Let's face some serious facts, the US regulations is making it super expensive to produce animated shorts here. This is why you have American companies using animation houses in the Philippines (Hoodwinked) Australia, Canada, and of course Japan. You can get a LOT more for a lot less.

The production group creating "Guardians of Luna" started out with traditional American Style, but found that doing so in the US was going to limit the project. With less money, they were able to do a whole lot more. In this business, it is common sense.

If you're not a working Animator, I'm sorry... but Hollywood is not a charity service and unfortunately if the USofA, especially Cali, is going to over tax, projects and such, then this is the outcome.

[Wolf-Bone]

What this... what do I hear... OMG! It's a violin...

Yeah, I'm playing a violin for some of the greatest contributions to western culture/art of all time that's being made impossible to continue because it's not ours anymore because we're not making it. Golly, that just makes me such a flaming homo, doesn't it?

In fact almost all the professional animators that I know do. They readily appreciate the style and the stories told with it.

So do I. But I'm not suffering from this white-guilt/wapanese mentality that anything Japanese is inherently superior to anything we produce. And even though obviously some of their stuff does blow some of our stuff out of the water, that's supposed to inspire us to try to top them, not surrender like some pussies out of guilt for bombing them back to the fucking stone age before most of us were even born. It's certainly no argument for letting their glorified toy/card commercial bullshit dominate our market.


Hollywood is not a charity service

Neither are workers, even lowlifes like animators. Do you realize what lead to all that "bureaucracy" as you put it in the first place? People doing a job simply for the love of it, not asking for no health benefits or company retirement plans or nothing like that. And by the way, they weren't being paid a lot in the first place, but when the studios somehow can't pay them on time or at all, there's no excuse for that. You can't moralize about suffering for your art when I'm the one making it for you, and you're eating and I'm not. They actually went on strike and probably sued I'd imagine.

So yes, it's our own fault for actually demanding not to be treated like second class citizens, which btw they are in Japan regardless of how much basement-dwelling white kids over here might worship them. When their culture changes, which it inevitably will, then what? I've seen some pretty good North Korean animation and hell will freeze over before those people experience the genetic mutations necessary to be capable of having even Japanese peoples' degree of freedom. But isn't the U.S pretty much forbidden from doing any real trade with them, or would they budge if the Japanese suddenly became too much of a liability to take the financial risk of having them produce half-hour Pokey-Man commercials in time for retail's Christmas season?

[J.L.R.]

Wolf-Bone have you ever worked in the industry, professionally, that is? Were you an animator that was laid off?

The multitude of animators that were laid off in the late 90's to early 2000's had nothing to do with anime, but more or less the decline in the desire for regular animated projects in favor of CGI. This was the case of Disney, of whom laid of hundreds of animators, of whom couldn't do CG animation. One of my friends worked for a subsidery of Cartoon Network, and seeing the need to upgrade his skills to work CGI and 3D animation took leave to return to Colorado and get a degree in the field, only to learn that the company he worked for was closed down.

He ended up getting stranded for nearly five years, having to work some of the worse jobs ever just to keep his head above the water. I was once a starving artist, and I know exactly how it feels to work your ass off on a project, and then the patrons wanting to pay you (If at all) 1/10th of what it is worth. During those dark years of my friend's life, I stood by him thick and thin, and did what I could to keep his moral up, and he eventually landed a sweet job as a story board artist, and he is making the big bucks. I know how horrible it is to have all of this talent, and yet having to work a crap job.

Nobody is saying it is fair... but it is life...

Our own culture is to blame for the lack of desire to use our own animators and style. look at Looney Tunes... It is sort of sad when you have to have Woopie Goldberg introduce and apologize for racism used in the cartoons! Tex Avery probably turned over in his grave. When studios produce animated projects and spend millions just to see them flop. They are going to go with something that will sell. Don Bluth's "Titan A.E." is a great example. The movie was fantastic in every right, especially in comparison to some of his other 90's material of which... to be honest, stunk... Yet if failed, because of the violence, partial nudity... These things aren't taboo in Japan, but the neo-conservatives go crazy and create these stupid rules. So you have western animators stuck making "kid-friendly" cartoons, or getting their material pushed to late night tv. Lately, we've come a long way, but for many animators in the industry, it isn't far enough. You still have politicians blaming video games and other forms of media for kids delinquent behavior! I remember when Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was under fire. It is stupid... but hey...

Let's face it, if Wolf's Rain (as an example), was produced in the USA, all the wolves would speak Spanish, talk about making the world enviromentally friendly, and saving bunnies and shit, and end with a happy, peace and love ending, as butterflies fly over a rainbow.

First, we as a country, have to understand that animation isn't just for tiny tots, but for everybody, young and old, no matter the cultural background. As stated, Hollywood is a business, and they aren't going to produce material that isn't going to sell (well unless you are Uwe Bol). They want to make money. If anything anime is helping the US realize that, if just a bit. Pixar is taking huge strides as well, as with UP, of which was their most emotional film to date, as well as a bit dark a times.

Disney is going to be releasing the Princess and the Frog of which will use traditional animation. If it is a success... there will be more. We are hungry for it, but it will have to be done right.

[Wolf-Bone]

Sure, whatever, just thought J.L.R might like to know this sort of rationalizing/moralizing his way around the truth is a real turn off. You're not going to change my mind by telling me some sob story that turns into a story of triumph, because frankly, I think you're lying through your teeth. It sounds too close to the tripe spewed by higher ups from several now-defunct studios on their blogs just before they were having to look for another job. They weren't telling us that as much as themselves, mostly to alleviate their own guilt and dance around the fact they sweet-talked some kids still wet-behind-the-ears into working for their studio which was struggling just to break even.

Now, my story is a little bit different. Instead of going straight from school to an un-paid internship basically to try to bail studios out which weren't even going to be there in a few months, I got sweet-talked into moving half-way across the country to live with a friend from high school who'd taken one of the same courses as me and then moved on to a similar one to learn animation, like myself. The reason was because she happens to live in one of the major centers in this country for the arts and business in general. And by the way, she never hesitated to mention all these people she knew in animation/graphic design since the latter is another trade I've got some education and experience in. So that was a huge factor in my decision to move there instead of stay in buttfuckistan.

But here was the problem. She lived in the ghetto of that city, or rather one of many. If you've never lived in Toronto you have absolutely no idea what it's like and have no place talking about it, end of story. It was pretty clear from the get go her main purpose in having me move out there was to mooch off me since her call center job didn't pay enough for her to afford rent and the constant splurging on video games, clothes, DVDs and of course anime conventions.

She was an incredibly unstable person and a mental and emotional drain to be around, not to mention calling in sick at least once a week just because she didn't feel like working. It was obvious that the moment I found a job, she was going to "lose" hers and she'd expect me to cover for the entirety of the expenses. I still wanted to make a go of it in Toronto though, so I'd be out there every day looking for potential opportunities I'd grab by the balls once I'd finally kicked her to the curb. She made that incredibly difficult though, because she'd be calling me on my cell phone constantly wanting to know how I'm doing (read: being paranoid about losing her backup money supply). Any time I'd ask about a particular friend of hers from animation, "oh, they said something to piss me off/were mean to me just the other day so I broke off all contact with them and conveniently lost their info" - and needless to say, all her "friends" kept her at arms length even when we'd hang out so they were keeping me at arms length by virtue of being her "best" friend (her insistence, not mine).

I'm not going to go into detail about what it took to get out of that situation and the potentially worse situations I found myself in following that, from crashing with crack addicts in that same neighborhood to an alcoholic uncle in another province. But I did end up working some of those "real" jobs that us faggy little artists supposedly "can't" do and come to find, yeah, we can't, at least not for too long. Otherwise we get too stupid to do what God Almighty intended us to do.

Retail jobs, call centers, warehouses and fastfood joints have tonnes of people working for them who have dreams "beyond this place" and some of them actually have the credentials. But they're never going to make it happen, because they simply don't have time, because they don't have the balls to say no to all the overtime, insanely irregular hours, and if you're a young, good-looking guy and your manager happens to be female, you've either got to put out like I did to get on their good side or she's gonna consider it her top priority to cut your balls off so you don't threaten her status. Yeah J.L.R, a little sexist realism to counter your racist bullshit about Whoopie Goldberg. How's that for a lil' tit-for-tat?

Anyway, I ended up doing what a good 1/3 of my generation is doing by some estimates. I moved back in with my parents because I got tired of working my ass off at a job I didn't take two college courses for just so I could give half my paycheque to one of my uncles for "food and bills"(most likely, every cent of it was going to bail out the aforementioned alcoholic uncle because I was subsisting on a single meal a day and they still bitched if I took a granola bar or some coffee here and there).

I managed to get a little design work under the table, just a few one-off things like I used to do before I completed the course where I learned that shit. I managed to save enough money before I moved back that I don't have to rush into another shit job and actually, see my avatar? That's actually my logo. I will be officially self-employed before the summer's out.

That's a story based on reality, not ideology, which is where everything you espouse comes from and why I don't take it seriously. I don't care about your friend, which for all I know you might be making up just to argue in favor of your worldview. I care about doing what I can within the reality I live in and looking out for my own ass, ya dig? Because that is just common sense.

[J.L.R.]

My friend's name is Matthew Sullivan. He is very real, and so is his story. I don't have to lie to you to prove a point. Matthew Sullivan is good friends with Don Bluth. Several members of the Disney family live in the same town I do. My Uncle goes to Church with several animators that either work or use to work at Disney. My Uncle himself is a very accomplished architect, and at his age and time, was one of the best in the nation. He now flips houses out of Long Beach, California.

I am best friends with an animation producer. (A USA Animated producer that is), who has several projects on his platter.

I showed him your little triad, just to make sure that I myself wasn't misinformed, and he had one of the biggest laughs, I've ever heard. You know the funny thing is, all the animators that I know (of whom are all working) have had hard times, but they stuck it out, and they are working once more. Most of them... I dunno about Bluth... love anime, or at least a few anime, and none of them bare resentment towards Japan. They aren't too happy with a lot of the large animation companies pushing towards CGI only films, but that is the truth.

Honestly, I don't care if you don't believe me. I think your little rant is crazy.

I'm sorry you've had a sucky experience. It happens. I know a LOT of jaded people, most of whom worked in Hollywood for a few years, didn't make it, and they all preach some sort of gloom-doom thingy.

Yes there are bad people in Hollywood, but my experience has been wonderful, thus far. I've met a lot of great people. Yeah they want to make money, but they at least care enough to talk to little ole me.

Dude, I am a writer, and when Hollywood jokes about how awful they treat writers (also the fact that we strike every few years... :P) you know things can get pretty nasty for us.

I don't let that detour me from my goals. In the low tides I network...

As for racist comments? I don't know what your talking about. I mentioned Tex Avery and it was unfortunate that our society deemed Looney Tunes so offensive that you had to have a celeb apologize at the beginning of the film? If that is racist... hum...

Look, I don't get you at all. So your a frustrated animator... spank your moppet and do something about it. There is work for animators in Hollywood, so fly and make your dreams come true. You keep ranting and whining about your problems, you're not going to get any where...

[Wolf-Bone]

1. I'm not sure what "triad" I have but you realize how fake it makes you look when you go "I showed this to so and so and they laughed their ass off", right? This is the classic pattern. You never brought up all these people you supposedly know until I called bullshit on your first story about the first guy, which you only brought up in the first place because obviously, not having any credibility yourself, you needed to reference someone who does. Do you know how many times I've seen this? It's always from guys like yourself who are obsessed with "winning" arguments and it's the classic lie that leads to another more elaborate lie and so on.

2. I already mentioned what I'm doing about it. You're either conveniently ignoring it in an attempt to make yourself look better or it doesn't count as "doing something about it" according to your ideological worldview. Dude, like I said, I bounced from one bad job/living arrangement to the next over the course of a year, and I met a lot of people like you along the way. You're great at talking a good game, convincing yourself you're right, rationalizing, moralizing and erasing any inconvenient thoughts that enter your mind or that someone else puts there. I figured guys like you out a long time ago. That beloved Bible of yours warned me and prepared me, to some extent.


Anyway, you might want to show "your friends" this (http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2006/04/great-moments-in-animation-employer_27.html). I'd love to hear what "they" have to say about it. You see, when I was explaining the need for the "bureaucracy" you loathe so much, I was thinking about way back in the day when animators went on strike a few times. I didn't know bullshit like this was still going on. Those fellow students and the now-defunct studios they worked for I mentioned failed because they couldn't get off the dole and turn a profit despite being on it for years, which comes down to bad management and the studios not being aggressive enough in getting those contracts or producing something kickass in-house. This is downright criminal. I defy you to rationalize that.

You might think I went looking for that just to get you to shut up about this once and for all. Actually, I was looking for info on this project called CrocPond which I had really high hopes for ever since I first heard about it a few years back. Because on top of having some of the best-looking anthro designs I've ever seen in my life, it aimed to teach kids to value integrity. The CrocPond Wikifur article (http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/CrocPond) links to the aforementioned blog post.

Again, western animation never fails to showcase our cultural values, and corporate greed and incompetence never fails to nail said cultural values to the fucking cross. You're right, it's not anime's fault. If anything, it's yours for defending these cunts without even thinking about what exactly you're defending.

[J.L.R.]

You know Wolf-Bone... you're right... I am the antichrist and I am going to take over the world with giant Japanese Mechs with badly dubbed VO (voice-overs). That's right... I am going to lay waist to Western culture!

Firstly, Wolf-Bone, nobody condones coorporate corruption, whether in the film biz, medical biz, or any business for that matter.

I NEVER stated that Japanese anime is superior to Western animation. If that is your rant, take it somewhere else. Simply put, anime opened doors for "Guardians of Luna". I'm not saying it is right for every animation project.

I still don't understand what "ideology" you keep referring about. What I told you, and have told you, is the truth.

I DO agree that bad management, poor story design, and pitiful marketing, led to the collapse of several animations houses. There is plenty of "red tape" in Hollywood, why else are most movies made overseas, such as in Australia. (The Knowing, Matrix Trilogy), Canada (New Moon and a host of others) and now New Zealand. It isn't just the pretty land, it is MUCH cheaper to do so. Our lovely government loves to tax the rich to give to the free loafers, and it hurts big business. People don't realize this at all. My aunt was head of projects and development for DHL, she made around $109,000 a year, and did you know that after taxes she took home an estimated $66,000 a year. If she recieved a $10,000 bonus, she would possibly get $3,000 of it. That's not even considering that she had to PAY taxes at the end of the year.

Newer film industry states like mine, Oklahoma, are giving tax credits and other benefits to lure film makers to our state. This is largely due to the work of Mary Fallen. Film makers come here because they can make a good movie and spend most of that money making the movie. This helps them cut costs, and earn more profits.

As stated Hollywood is a big business and it opperates like one.

Yes there is corruption, and once it is weeded out, most sly away from those types of folks. Karma is big in Hollywood and so anybody who has a soul, isn't going to purposely try and screw you.

[Wolf-Bone]

Our lovely government loves to tax the rich to give to the free loafers, and it hurts big business.

Statement should read "Our lovely government loves to tax everyone to bail out big businesses that were screwing over said tax-payers in the first place and makes them the free loafers". That's what I'm talking about when I talk about your -decidedly hardline conservative ideology- and how it makes it all but impossible for you to see/say anything remotely close to reality. I'm starting to genuinely believe you might be incapable of not being delusional. That or you're one of the most convincing trolls I've ever seen on this site, or any site for that matter.

I mean, even if you're not a troll, you're essentially functioning as one with a statement like that. Even if you can somehow get passed the fact that it's an incredibly stupid sounding statement to be making, especially in the current climate, it served no purpose other than to push your ideology. It had no relevance whatsoever unless you were expecting to somehow connect it to these statements-

I DO agree that bad management, poor story design, and pitiful marketing, led to the collapse of several animations houses.

Hollywood is a big business and it opperates like one.

There is plenty of "red tape" in Hollywood

- and effectively imply the tired-old bullshit about how workers (in this case, animators) only get victimized because because big business gets victimized by big government. And? What's your point exactly? It's a dubious argument at best, especially given that virtually everyone outside the United States (and quite a few within the United States actually) sees the situation as something of a codependent relationship in which big government, through its policies acts as an enabler to big business and big business, having members in both parties, propels people to positions of power who are going to continue the cycle of enabling.

The example I provided of CrocPond/Fatcat, which you quite beautifully ignored, can not be justified with some bullshit argument like that because that's not even about whether it's inherently cheaper/better to have a bunch of Canucks/Japs/Aussies work on it. It's about a culture of greed and incompetence that some, not all of us are living in that in this case has made it so that nobody is going to benefit, at least not any time in the foreseeable future. It was a good example because the people responsible were pretty much smack-dab in the middle of the whole government-business-worker-boss paradigm. They're certainly not the government, and they're not really big business because they were the guys in charge of a subsidiary, which is the studio. So they're either on-par with or like one step above the senior animators (who often double as directors, aka management).

The project, which would've consisted of shorts, interactive games, and possibly even a series and Wii game was classic western animation at its best. And it was being pitched on the basis of promoting values to children which are also classically western. You just don't see the kind of animation, or more importantly, those kinds of messages in Anime, and while some of them do have really deep stories and philosophies behind them, we're not Japanese and neither are our children, no matter how much they're growing up wanting to be!

And if this greed and corruption ultimately responsible for the failure of so much western art, which exists independently of government and business is also inherently western, well then clearly, there are two wests and one of them has to die.

[Klark]

well then clearly, there are two wests and one of them has to die.

West is a good guy, and I don't want him to die. :droolbld:

So anyway, back to the topic, is this Guardians of Luna based on a comic book or something? I've never seen a werewolf cartoon. Sure, I've seen werewolves in cartoons, but never a cartoon based on werewolves. Maybe I'm sheltered, I dunno.

[J.L.R.]

Guardians of Luna is going to be an animated series about werewolves. Here is an article about the series.

http://news.toonzone.net/articles/11438/guardians-of-luna-preview-good-moon-rising

The art style has changed quite a bit, but the story is still the same. Michael Reeves is still scripting the story, while a Japanese animation shop will be producing the art. There will be a Manga series that will be launched ahead of the actual animated series release.

Here is an article featuring their new style. I would say superior style, but I did like the old look and I don't want to give Wolf-Bone a coniption.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/35270
:rockon:

(BTW) The guy who created it... I know him too... :rockon:

[Klark]

The screenshots remind me of Gargoyles, which was a cartoon I was very addicted to in my early teens.

[Wolf-Bone]

Y'know, C.L.R, I've met a lot of people, but I don't claim to know them.

The screenshots remind me of Gargoyles, which was a cartoon I was very addicted to in my early teens.

As was I. One of the main guys behind this was also one of the main guys behind Gargoyles, which was why I was looking forward to this so much... That is, until they got sold our jobs. Now, it's like, sorry, I don't care.

[J.L.R.]

The screenshots remind me of Gargoyles, which was a cartoon I was very addicted to in my early teens.

It should, Michael Reeves was the screenwriter who wrote the series. He's also writing Luna...

CLR... wow... the sounds like a cleaning detergent! I've always wanted to be one of those...

I know them... because I do... :beerchug:

[Klark]

Well, the screenshots in the first link looked like Gargoyles.

The screenshots in the second link have lost that look entirely. I don't know, I'm still a sucker for story, so I hope it's a good one.

[J.L.R.]

Well, the screenshots in the first link looked like Gargoyles.

The screenshots in the second link have lost that look. I don't know, I'm still a sucker for story, so I hope it's a good one.

I was skeptical at first too, but after seeing the newer version in actual motion, it made perfect sense (for this story). The decision to go this route was a creative decision by the team. It really shines too...

It is sort of like Ghost in the Shell...with WEREWOLVES! :rockon:

The story is solid... It ain't going to be cheesy, to be sure.

[Klark]

The story is solid... It ain't going to be cheesy, to be sure.

Well, then you can count me in on the viewing when it gets picked up...or has it been picked up? I saw in the one story they were talking like no one has picked it up yet.

[Wolf-Bone]

What is it with Americans and thinking the whole fucking universe revolves around them? You realize when I say ours, I mean as in western, right? It's a pretty simple-to-grasp and very common concept even in lives-in-a-vacuum America that overall, western cultures have a lot of important values in common. Now I'm not sure if GoL would fall into this category, but I think it's just common sense to say if we're gonna have western art that espouses western values, you probably want westerners making it. And you already made it perfectly clear you have no problem with "your" animation/film making jobs being exported to other countries, including Canada so it comes across as pretty stupid to try to claim it as rightfully yours now.

[J.L.R.]

Well, then you can count me in on the viewing when it gets picked up...or has it been picked up? I saw in the one story they were talking like no one has picked it up yet.

Everything is very tentative right now, and unfortunately I, myself, can't go into details as well I would be rended in two and my soul would be damned to burn in the seventh sphere of hell for all eternity... yeah these confedential agreements are getting a bit extreme you know. :D

If you want to get up to date info on Luna, you can register your e-mail addy here...

http://www.guardiansofluna.com/mailinglist/

[J.L.R.]

The gun has fired... the smoke has settled... and deathly silence rings in the air. (ironic isn't it...silence ringing)...

I wanted to post another link for Luna, so that everyone can stay up to date...

http://guardiansofluna.livejournal.com/

Here is another link as a means to getting "Guardians" news. This is the official Live Journal page. At the moment it shares most of the same info that we've seen thus far, HOWEVER, if you look closely at the back there is a small picture of a teaser poster. :) I tease... I tease...

Also there are a few things coming down the road... Something... that will possibly have to do with this site... :notworthy:

After all...

This is..

Werewolf.com!

[J.L.R.]

This actual thread is set to be closed... Not to worry, I will be re-opening the QA session in another new thread later on...