Arrogance

[Tempest]

I was talking to one of my former professors the other day (yes, I'm that nerdy--I keep in touch with some of my teachers), and the topic of arrogance came up. I've never given much thought to this subject, but my prof strongly felt there's nothing wrong with arrogance. He also told some anecdotes about how people have called him arrogant for things like using proper grammar or correcting someone on a point. This lead both of us to come to the conclusion that (i) people have some strange ideas as to what arrogance is and (ii) most people believe arrogance is wrong. But neither of us can figure out why it's wrong.

What is your opinion? What do you think counts as arrogant behavior? Why do you feel it's good, bad, or neither?

[UNODRAGONE]

I am guessing it is because a lot of people go by the defintion:

arrogance–noun offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.


I don't see anything wrong with having an extended amount of knowledge, but if you use it offensively or in a rude manner then yeah you are going to make enemies because you're being snub. Me I usually look for arrogant people when I have certian questions cause they usually know the answer :) I don't take it personally, so that could be another reason why people do not like it as well cause they internalize it (shrugs)

[Xavious]

I define arrogance as:

a) overconfidence in or lauding ones own abilities

b) overly and overtly prideful

I don't think arrogance in and of itself is a bad. However most people when they display arrogance its in a manner that is bad. Hence why most people may have a negative connotation of the word.

[Tempest]

But that doesn't answer my question of what counts as arrogant behavior, or even why it's offensive. I can copy paste dictionary definitions, too.

Why is it offensive if someone expresses confidence or pride in their abilities? Some of the stories my prof told me were just ridiculous. It's as though people use arrogance as a way to put someone in their place after all they did was use proper grammar or correct someone on a point--things that make the other person feel bad about themselves. That's the only thing I can think of. Why take offensive if someone thinks they're better than you? Some people really are better than others. For instance, I'm certainly not on par with Aristotle or Einstein.

However, I've never had a person, who has been labeled as arrogant, come up to me and say "I am better than you." It's all our perception of the things these "arrogant" people say. I think the problem is us, not the so-called arrogant people.

[UNODRAGONE]

But that doesn't answer my question of what counts as arrogant behavior, or even why it's offensive. I can copy paste dictionary definitions, too.

Why is it offensive if someone expresses confidence or pride in their abilities? Some of the stories my prof told me were just ridiculous. It's as though people use arrogance as a way to put someone in their place after all they did was use proper grammar or correct someone on a point--things that make the other person feel bad about themselves. That's the only thing I can think of. Why take offensive if someone thinks they're better than you? Some people really are better than others. For instance, I'm certainly not on par with Aristotle or Einstein.

However, I've never had a person, who has been labeled as arrogant, come up to me and say "I am better than you." It's all our perception of the things these "arrogant" people say. I think the problem is us, not the so-called arrogant people.

I am guessing it is because a lot of people go by the defintion:

arrogance–noun offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.


I don't see anything wrong with having an extended amount of knowledge, but if you use it offensively or in a rude manner then yeah you are going to make enemies because you're being snub. Me I usually look for arrogant people when I have certian questions cause they usually know the answer I don't take it personally, so that could be another reason why people do not like it as well cause they internalize it (shrugs)


are you asking for examples cause I think me and Xavious answered your question the way it was presented. To me, an arrogant person is a closed minded person who won't admit or hear that they are wrong, someone who is so full of themselves they know everything and even when given proof they are wrong won't admit to it. I am with you on the whole there will be people and there are people out there smarter then me so it doesn't bother me to hear it thing so I honestly don't know why some people get offended :(

[Tempest]

To me, an arrogant person is a closed minded person who won't admit or hear that they are wrong, someone who is so full of themselves they know everything and even when given proof they are wrong won't admit to it.

This is what I was looking for--although your definition sounds simply like close-mindedness rather than arrogance. I'm looking for personal opinions (not dictionary entries) on what constitutes arrogance and why it's good, bad, or neither. Just like I said in my original post. I'm attempting to get people to think about how they use the word arrogant because I've noticed that some people throw it around without really knowing what they mean by it.

[UNODRAGONE]

This is what I was looking for--although your definition sounds simply like close-mindedness rather than arrogance. I'm looking for personal opinions (not dictionary entries) on what constitutes arrogance and why it's good, bad, or neither. Just like I said in my original post. I'm attempting to get people to think about how they use the word arrogant because I've noticed that some people throw it around without really knowing what they mean by it.


thats my fault then I read it wrong :( arrogant to me is someone who is never wrong, or won't accept they are. I have a guy at work that swears he knows everything there is about gardening cause his grandfather was a gardener. He does know a lot which is why I talk to him about it. But every time I try to tell him tips that have helped me, he brushes me off because I didn't receive the 'training' he did and can't possibly know more then his grandfather and him. That to me is arrogant, just because I don't have your 'training' doesn't mean I don't know things or can't contribute in a subject. I don't dislike him for it, but I know how far to talk to him before it turns into an arguement because even though I let the topic go and move on, he becomes hell bent on proving me wrong

[MorganaFang]

Why is it offensive if someone expresses confidence or pride in their abilities? Some of the stories my prof told me were just ridiculous.

I think it's all about how a person presents themselves. If you are constantly boasting accolades of yours while toting the better than thou attitude that is arrogant.

For myself I do enjoy when people are proud of what they do but when people are expressing it with the intent to make others feel less significant then it's annoying. (hippydippyartist embraces what people bring to the table sometimes, sometimes people just suck.)

It's as though people use arrogance as a way to put someone in their place after all they did was use proper grammar or correct someone on a point.

I'm sure people do, who will give the arrogance tag just because they are either jealous of the person or something. Sometimes though, there are exceptions where correcting grammar/spelling/pronunciation can sound and be very vindictive.

I'm not saying every time someone does that it is the case or what they are trying to do but I know that is how some people perceive.

Why take offensive if someone thinks they're better than you? Some people really are better than others.

It's one thing to think it and another to act like it or really ham it up so you virtually putting other people down. On one end it doesn't feel good and can even cause trouble making constructive things happen. No one wants to work with a person who is just going to assume they're basically godly figure, that everything they think is right.

No person is really like that either. In most cases when it comes to most average people "being better" it isn't so much as a whole as a few skill sets. The person they perceive as being better than may kick as at something they can't do.

I think the problem is us, not the so-called arrogant people.

Eh, I really think it depends. I do think people can be over sensitive to it, definitely but I also think some people who try too hard in pushing superiority earned their arrogant label.

I'm going to use this example not intending to offend anyone (ok maybe a little): BRP is arrogant and blindly so. He will come into conversations talking down to people or present discussion topics with intent to "over talk" people. Example being the Stonewall discussion where he scolded people for not being educated on something they didn't know exist and didn't have significance to their lives.

[Chriz]

But that doesn't answer my question of what counts as arrogant behavior, or even why it's offensive. I can copy paste dictionary definitions, too.

To me, arrogance (in the bad way) is kinda like "self overrated." It's fine to be smart and know it. But when you think you're smarter than you really are -- and act that way -- you need to be taken down a peg.

But then there's confidence, which people can interpret as arrogance.

[McKitty]

Arrogance is when you've crossed the line from having a healthy bit of pride in your abilities and are now alienating everyone "lower" than you.

When all you do is talk down to someone, you're only damaging yourself. Sure, you may be well-versed in your chosen field of expertise, but what's the point if no one wants to even listen to what you have to say?

When you're too filled with pride, it starts to cloud your personal judgement.

[Shaun]

I call people arrogant when they think their stuff doesn't stink and that you need to acknowledge and accept you are beneath them. People who are never wrong and so full of themselves they lack empathy. Of course I get labeled arrogant all the time cause I am not one to let anyone pull a fast one on me but I consider that stubborn headed not arrogant. If you can prove me wrong in a civilized manner I'll listen otherwise your words fall on deaf ears. Like everyone else said there is nothing wrong with confidence, it's when you start pushing it and trying to get others to subscribe to your 'Godlyness' that pisses me off.

[Tempest]

So, to generalize, the problem seems to be condescension and alienating others. It also appears that there's a fine line between confidence and arrogance. So how exactly is someone to know when they've crossed that line?

Morg, although I'm sure someone somewhere regards correcting grammar as arrogant, this is what my professor told me: he asked someone how they were, and they replied, "good, how are you?" He responded, "I'm well, thank you." To which the other person said, "well, you don't have to be arrogant about it." The other story he told me had to do with a speech he was asked to give in response to some other professor's essay. Apparently the other prof got a few facts incorrect, and my professor corrected him on these points and then continued to argue against the other guy's thesis--like he had been invited to do. Afterwards, several people told him he had been arrogant to correct those points. I don't see either of those things as arrogant at all, and I'm glad people here don't seem to, either.

Normally I only use the word arrogant when describing those high school cheerleaders who never venture outside of their little clique (no offense to anyone who is/was a cheerleader).

[MorganaFang]

Morg, although I'm sure someone somewhere regards correcting grammar as arrogant, this is what my professor told me: he asked someone how they were, and they replied, "good, how are you?" He responded, "I'm well, thank you." To which the other person said, "well, you don't have to be arrogant about it." The other story he told me had to do with a speech he was asked to give in response to some other professor's essay. Apparently the other prof got a few facts incorrect, and my professor corrected him on these points and then continued to argue against the other guy's thesis--like he had been invited to do. Afterwards, several people told him he had been arrogant to correct those points. I don't see either of those things as arrogant at all, and I'm glad people here don't seem to, either.

Yeah I think those are moments when people are being oversensitive, especially the first part.

The second part, I don't know, seems like he could not have been but since I wasn't there nor do I know him I just don't know.

I think it's unavoidable to be judged as arrogant if you're confident. My parents would get called elitists and arrogant because they perceivable lived drama free lives by their neighbors. My parents did not even do anything or say anything.

For yourself, knowing if you actually are arrogant is when you're trying to be superior than others. Not when you're just proud without thinking of others casually.

[Klark]

Arrogance with cheerleaders can be mistaken for what is actually just snobbery, which I place in a different category than arrogance. I don't believe that arrogance is making full utilization of one's linguistic knowledge, otherwise, nearly all Brits would be perceived as arrogant by Americans, and I have several British friends that don't fall into that category.

For me, arrogance when one falsely perceives themself as being superior. It is perfectly fine to know you possess superior skills, but you must also realize that someone will have superior skills over you. Arrogance is itself a symptom of low self-esteem, at least, that's how I perceive it.

[DarkHunter]

I've been called arrogant, but only by people who are beneath me :)

"Arrogance" obviously is one of those words with negative connotations, describing an abundance of confidence. I think an abundance of confidence can only be negative when it leads to blindness. When you can't admit you're wrong, can't be turned even when presented with adequate reason.

That's the big problem, the main reason people see me as arrogant. I tend to insist that I am right about things and people disagree. They call me arrogant, but in my daily life I rarely get the reasons explained to me. When I explain my reasoning, I'm being condescending, a know-it-all.

I have no trouble admitting that I'm wrong about things, when presented with adequate reason. I just am not going to bow before a position based on weakness of reason. I will take time to explain my views. For this reason I am called arrogant. If that is arrogant, then it's something I'll be proud of.

I really don't get why knowledge and education is so intimidating to so many people.

[McKitty]

I really don't get why knowledge and education is so intimidating to so many people.

It has nothing to do with knowledge and education, it has to do with being a overgrown peacock.

Now, if you'll listen to other points-of-view and also don't think you're the best-of-the-best-of-the-best, then this doesn't apply to you.

However, if you can't take critique, but love to dish it out, if you think you're at the pinnacle of your existance, and won't hear a word of advice, and if you think (pardon the language) your shit doesn't stink, then you're arrogant.

[Startraveler]

Why take offensive if someone thinks they're better than you? Some people really are better than others. For instance, I'm certainly not on par with Aristotle or Einstein.

Therein lies the rub. What does it mean to make a blanket statement that a person is "better"? When the statement goes unqualified like that it strays into douchey and, yes, potentially offensive territory. Instead of a statement about particular abilities it becomes one about the inherent value of a person.

I don't believe it's necessarily possible or useful to draw up a general rule about this topic. However, I'll offer an incomplete suggestion. It's possible to be a better mathematician, physicist, philosopher, artist, etc than someone else. But when one lets this realization go to his head and inform his view of his own relative value as a human being, the whole thing becomes dangerous. And it becomes apparent in his interactions with others (this is where the condescension and such comes in). The obnoxious thing about arrogant people isn't primarily how they view themselves but how they view you.

[Sinanju]

arrogance is the best academia and workplace way to be a jerk without getting called out on it. A professor I TA'd for prided himself on being "elitist" and arrogant". I think alot of professors feel that way because if they put in 12 years studying a topic and are recognized as experts in the field, they sure as hell can feel confident in talking down to those who don't know much about a topic but act like they do.

I loved that professor. He had like a 38% fail rate and was still constantly telling me not to coddle the "Little assholes"

[UNODRAGONE]

arrogance is the best academia and workplace way to be a jerk without getting called out on it. A professor I TA'd for prided himself on being "elitist" and arrogant". I think alot of professors feel that way because if they put in 12 years studying a topic and are recognized as experts in the field, they sure as hell can feel confident in talking down to those who don't know much about a topic but act like they do.
I loved that professor. He had like a 38% fail rate and was still constantly telling me not to coddle the "Little assholes"


I think if the person is a professor, he shouldn't be talking down to anyone he should be teaching. One universal truth I have learned, there is always someone out there that knows more or is better at something than you.

[Startraveler]

A professor I TA'd for prided himself on being "elitist" and arrogant". . . . He had like a 38% fail rate and was still constantly telling me not to coddle the "Little assholes"

I'm curious, what did he teach?

[Sinanju]

[FONT="Century Gothic"]I think if the person is a professor, he shouldn't be talking down to anyone he should be teaching.

Professors are some of the most entitled assholes on the planet. I think pretty much every department has at least one ego-inflated tyrant professor who despises the lazy entitled kids begging for their free gradez. Especially the ones interested in working in their field but get stuck teaching way more classes than they signed on to do.

I'm curious, what did he teach?

Genetics, microbiology, and assorted neurology topics. He pretty much hated teaching and wanted to do more research so he made life hell for most of his students. He respected scientific inquiry but would pretty much treat everyone who didnt give his class 100% effort like a goddamn moron. After seeing how little effort some people put into a class and act entitled to a passing grade, I became pretty much just as bad.

[UNODRAGONE]

Professors are some of the most entitled assholes on the planet. I think pretty much every department has at least one ego-inflated tyrant professor who despises the lazy entitled kids begging for their free gradez. Especially the ones interested in working in their field but get stuck teaching way more classes than they signed on to do.



Genetics, microbiology, and assorted neurology topics. He pretty much hated teaching and wanted to do more research so he made life hell for most of his students. He respected scientific inquiry but would pretty much treat everyone who didnt give his class 100% effort like a goddamn moron. After seeing how little effort some people put into a class and act entitled to a passing grade, I became pretty much just as bad.

I fail to see how being a knowledgeable person gives you the right to be an asshat especially since professors go into the teaching field to help not show off the size of their monkey heads. Let me look here:

professor :a teacher of the highest academic rank in a college or university, who has been awarded the title Professor in a particular branch of learning; a full professor: a professor of Spanish literature.  

teacher : a person who teaches or instructs, esp. as a profession; instructor. Nope still don't see it. As far as the unworthy brats, hey you decided to be a teacher, deal with it. I am positive every school has one, and I love being that one kid who constantly questions them :)

[Tempest]

Okay, I can easily see how a professor would become arrogant. So many college students whine about the teacher, yet don't do the basic things they need to do to help themselves. A lot of them just complain that they don't understand something, and it must be the fault of the professor's, even though they've never one gone to a tutor or even talked to the professor about it. Then you have students who text during class, cheat on exams, put out papers with spelling and grammar errors, and cut class all the time.

Many students aren't there to learn; they're there to pass the class. I can see how all of this would make a prof indifferent towards students until they've proven otherwise. And like Sinanju said, some professors want to do more research, but get stuck teaching freshmen who could not care less about what he's saying. I mean, if that wouldn't bother you, that's great, but I think it'd be hard to deal with, especially when you're an expert in your field. Maybe it's just my type A personality, but when I see a professor talking down to me, it makes me want to improve and prove him wrong, not curl up in a ball and cry.

[UNODRAGONE]

Okay, I can easily see how a professor would become arrogant. So many college students whine about the teacher, yet don't do the basic things they need to do to help themselves. A lot of them just complain that they don't understand something, and it must be the fault of the professor's, even though they've never one gone to a tutor or even talked to the professor about it. Then you have students who text during class, cheat on exams, put out papers with spelling and grammar errors, and cut class all the time.

Many students aren't there to learn; they're there to pass the class. I can see how all of this would make a prof indifferent towards students until they've proven otherwise. And like Sinanju said, some professors want to do more research, but get stuck teaching freshmen who could not care less about what he's saying. I mean, if that wouldn't bother you, that's great, but I think it'd be hard to deal with, especially when you're an expert in your field. Maybe it's just my type A personality, but when I see a professor talking down to me, it makes me want to improve and prove him wrong, not curl up in a ball and cry.

I can see how some professors get annoyed with those scenarios but arrogant? Really don't see how that gets you any where but thats me :shrug: My teacher has to be aggressive and well educated in the field but if he comes off too cocky and arrogant it turns me right off except trying to prove him wrong. I think there should be a healthy balance and not for nothing but people who go in the teaching field are unrealistic if they think all of their students are there to learn. I am going to school for guidance counseling cause I want to help kids but I know damn well some students will just take advantage. Thats just how it is. Reminds me of what my dad taught me, 'never make something you love, something your passionate about into a profession, you will end up loosing part of it' something like that :(

[Tempest]

I can see how some professors get annoyed with those scenarios but arrogant? Really don't see how that gets you any where but thats me :shrug: My teacher has to be aggressive and well educated in the field but if he comes off too cocky and arrogant it turns me right off except trying to prove him wrong. I think there should be a healthy balance and not for nothing but people who go in the teaching field are unrealistic if they think all of their students are there to learn. I am going to school for guidance counseling cause I want to help kids but I know damn well some students will just take advantage. Thats just how it is.

I think you're underestimating how many students are there for the grade. I'm in school to learn, and I show it through effort, respect, and attention. But I'm in the minority. When the amount of students who are there to learn are overpowered by the amount of students who are there for easy As, I think that would be discouraging. When someone is constantly being an obnoxious little brat, I think it'd be tempting to think you're better than they are. And since the majority of students seem not to care at all about what they're learning, that arrogance can easily be generalized to most of the class.

Comparing teaching to counseling does not work. As a guidance counselor, not all of the kids are there by choice, and may not respect you because of that. As a professor, everyone is there by choice, and they're even spending thousands just to be there and pay your salary! So yeah, I don't think you can compare the two. They're completely different.

[UNODRAGONE]

I think you're underestimating how many students are there for the grade. I'm in school to learn, and I show it through effort, respect, and attention. But I'm in the minority. When the amount of students who are there to learn are overpowered by the amount of students who are there for easy As, I think that would be discouraging. When someone is constantly being an obnoxious little brat, I think it'd be tempting to think you're better than they are. And since the majority of students seem not to care at all about what they're learning, that arrogance can easily be generalized to most of the class.

Comparing teaching to counseling does not work. As a guidance counselor, not all of the kids are there by choice, and may not respect you because of that. As a professor, everyone is there by choice, and they're even spending thousands just to be there and pay your salary! So yeah, I don't think you can compare the two. They're completely different.

it sucks that your college has that ratio but not all do, mine certainly does not. I had maybe one or two kids in my class that were there just to be there but the rest of us, maybe it was because it was a night class with mostly adults, were not that way. I would imagine ivy league schools that are hard to get into are the same way. Even if that is the case, where does arrogance get them? Uh, yeah not all the kids are in college by choice either, you get high strung parents that force their kids into school and to take certian classes. Counseling and teaching are different, but both are professionals, both endure abusement and both should only want to help someone grow.

[Tempest]

it sucks that your college has that ratio but not all do, mine certainly does not. I had maybe one or two kids in my class that were there just to be there but the rest of us, maybe it was because it was a night class with mostly adults, were not that way. I would imagine ivy league schools that are hard to get into are the same way. Even if that is the case, where does arrogance get them? Uh, yeah not all the kids are in college by choice either, you get high strung parents that force their kids into school and to take certian classes. Counseling and teaching are different, but both are professionals, both endure abusement and both should only want to help someone grow.

Right, adult students and traditional students are very different. There are some adult students who don't care, and some traditional students who do care, but generally adults take their classes much more seriously. I can't say whether or not Ivy league schools have more students who are serious, seeing as I've never been to an Ivy league school. :p

I'm explaining how they could become arrogant, not the point of their arrogance. Let's face it, most professors are intelligent people who have done a lot of research in their field. It can go to their heads. So? They have every right to think they're better than a student who does not put in any effort, yet thinks they know everything. And ultimately, why should they care about a student if a student does not care? Why should they continue to bash their heads into a brick wall when they can't even get a student to ask a question when they're confused? Maybe in high school they do this, but you're responsible for your own education in college.

As for not all students being there by choice, I haven't met many who aren't there for their own reasons. They exist, yes, but it's hardly comparable to a guidance counselor. Even being at a community college I don't hear a lot of "I'm only here because mom and dad made me go". No, a guidance counselor deals with a lot more students who don't want to be there than a college professor does.

[Startraveler]

The university I went to had a very low percentage of students who were there just to goof off (very few classes were chosen for easy A's) but I still ran across the occasional self-important, arrogant jerk of an instructor. For the most part, this place valued research much more than it did teaching; certain professors found it hard to hide the fact that they viewed teaching as a chore and perhaps resenting it for taking them away from their research (I once had a physics professor who literally fell asleep at the board because he'd been up all night working on an experiment). That said, there were also many instructors who clearly loved teaching and were always open and enthusiastic--one of the smartest and most well-rounded professors I ever took a class with was also one of the nicest.

I tended to find a lot more arrogance in the student body, however. Oh the pomposity!

[west]

Why is it offensive if someone expresses confidence or pride in their abilities

I think it comes from the idea that all people are equals. When someone flaunts their talents then the feeling of equality isn't present anymore, and people don't like that.

[Sinanju]

I fail to see how being a knowledgeable person gives you the right to be an asshat especially since professors go into the teaching field to help not show off the size of their monkey heads. Let me look here:


You're confusing "professor" with "teacher". They are two very different things in the US education system. Professors don't always want to teach. Many of them absolutely detest teaching and were promised more research funding or opportunity and then they get short-changed by the university and stuck teaching undergrad slackers.

A teacher teaches, a professor has about 50 other things they would typically rather do. Especially if they're experts in their field and they get stuck teaching a 101 level class filled with freshman dipshits playing WOW on their laptops and turning in assignments late, and then throwing fits in office hours because the test was too hard.

What I can vouch for that startraveler said is that if the institution is research based, professors are usually far more likely to be averse to teaching and treat their students contemptuously. They want to research and spend their time creating new material in their field, not argue with freshmen whose opinions all come from southpark and John Stewart.

I think it comes from the idea that all people are equals. When someone flaunts their talents then the feeling of equality isn't present anymore, and people don't like that.

We pay ridiculous amounts of money to learn about a field or go to a higher rated college solely because the professors are some of the best we can learn from. There is a reason community and small colleges are cheap and taught by those with less of a grasp of the field. Being the "best" tends to make people arrogant. Professors make academics their life and vocation, so when someone challenges their beliefs (especially the know-it-all freshmen who argue about every goddamn thing ever), they obviously get their feathers rustled. Sometimes it's just a matter of smiling and nodding, because these people are incredibly intelligent, and you can typically learn alot of cutting edge theory from them, even if they are pompous assholes.

I tended to find a lot more arrogance in the student body, however. Oh the pomposity!

Holy shit grad students especially. I'm pretty sure the arrogance generated by a room full of grad students could be a new alternative energy source that would power the world for centuries if it could ever be harnessed.

[SaintAshers]

Arrogance is like everything else, is fine in moderation.

[kathryn]

To be arrogant, to be overly proud. Not an assumption of importance and dignity when one has none.

Acting pretentious is far different than arrogance. Of course, it's all about the attitude.

To act arrogant is... well, lets say that there is a meeting between a Canadian and an American, both proud of their respective countries. Being arrogant, they both say that their countries are far superior than any other. Because of this disagreement, they end up in a fight. This is when arrogance gets out of hand.

Or a kid at school who has his nose in the air because he was brought up in the good section of town, his daddy is the most important person in politics, his mother is so proud of him. And then he gets a B on a test and he blames it on the class bringing his intelligence down. This is arrogance, and while it is good to be proud of your daddy, and it's okay to be confident of your skills, but you shouldn't 1) look down on others because of this or 2) blame others on your own shortcomings.

Pride has it's place. Arrogance does as well, but it's best in moderation. I'd rather be prideful and be open minded rather than arrogant and closeminded.

[Necro Mortis]

Arrogance to me is bad; it's when someone acts derisive, belittles and patronises someone else or makes them feel inferior in some way.

Like in a group, say if one person is explaining a situation but another thinks they know better than the one talking and they actually show that they think they know better, say by a smug demeanour or patronising grin, THAT is arrogance.

Arrogance is the ugly love child of pride, supremacism and ignorance. Yes, they had a threesome.

Is it arrogance if someone thinks they know better or are bursting with self pride but keeps it to themselves? I don't think so.

[Sinanju]

Arrogance is the ugly love child of pride, supremacism and ignorance. Yes, they had a threesome.


Ignorance has nothing to do with it. You can be arrogant as fuck and be totally factually correct/intellectually superior in the field of discussion.

[Necro Mortis]

Ignorance has nothing to do with it. You can be arrogant as fuck and be totally factually correct/intellectually superior in the field of discussion.

Wrong. I believe arrogance is ignorance of people's emotions and the long term effects of how they're acting.

For example, do they think that their arrogance will benefit them apart from fleeting and shallow self gratification? Maybe, but in the long run it will not.
Nobody likes arrogant people, therefore arrogance is ignorant of the consequences of being arrogant. Understand?
Also, notice at the start of my first post I said "to me"? That means it's an opinion. An opinion can not be wrong unless of course it is in direct conflict with MY opinion.

[Vendetta]

Hey, hey guys!

ar*ro*gance n: a feeling of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims.


Well done.

[Chriz]

ar*ro*gance n: a feeling of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims.

Key words emphasized.

The original questions were:

What do you think counts as arrogant behavior? Why do you feel it's good, bad, or neither?

I think the definition of the word narrows down what counts as arrogant behavior. It's still an open question as to it being good, bad, or neither.

[Miss Teatime]

Like most things in life-- moderation is key. I believe arrogance can be a positive personality trait that if harnessed well and understood by the individual, can be used to one's advances in life. I don't believe its a horrible thing to be arrogant when you're entitled to experiencing your personal, emotional depths.

On the flip side, I believe that those who compensate no self confidence with arrogance are setting themselves up to be the target of anyone within a 5 mile radius. In this situation, what little or lack of self confidence you had before, will sink even lower-- which I bet you never thought possible.

Arrogance also leaves little room for experience or growth which I find the most disturbing.

[hookedoncandycanes]

Arrogance is such an ultimately touchy subject.

It all depends on the person. And not the person being arrogant but the individual who has to perceive it.

I think arrogance can be a good character trait if not tied to the stereotypical trait of egocentric-ism that normally is tied to it. So, you can correct someone in a polite way. You can be knowledgeable without looking down on people. It's safe to preface these things with a, "I hate to be rude," but I guess even THAT can be rudely arrogant so.

In the end, my first statement seems to hold true lol! Depends on the person really. But what a great question to ask!

- hoc2

[Sinanju]

Heres a great example of why arrogance is basically the most fun character trait on earth to make use of.

I was at an indian restaurant the other day with 14 people and when we were about to leave the dude started getting snippy about the bill and how we owed some money.

Some people might spend like 15 minutes debating and doing the math again, but my conversation took far less time.

:cool: : We gave 1400, thats what we owe
:cry: : No you are wrong you had 16 people so you owe 200 more.
:cool: nope, because I'm never wrong
:cry: : ok sorry have a nice day

Arrogance is 100x more fun when combined with being an asshole.

[CatBoxed]

The rest of you can just fuck right off, because you're all wrong.

[Hoplite]

it is never possible for a someone to know everything..there are people who sometimes know better than others, and there is nothing wrong with that..but what i think is that a person is arrogant when he is reluctant to accept others ideas or thoughts..he might know better (which may not be true, that's what he thinks), however, that doesn't mean he should show that off or brag about it regardless of how others might feel...i think arrogance is overconfidence ending in the lack of humility, which is a primary human character..of course Einstein or Aristotle or Galileo knew better than the people of that time, but i don't recall any record of them bragging about it or regarding others as inferiors..

[CatBoxed]

it is never possible for a someone to know everything..there are people who sometimes know better than others, and there is nothing wrong with that..but what i think is that a person is arrogant when he is reluctant to accept others ideas or thoughts..he might know better (which may not be true, that's what he thinks), however, that doesn't mean he should show that off or brag about it regardless of how others might feel...i think arrogance is overconfidence ending in the lack of humility, which is a primary human character..of course Einstein or Aristotle or Galileo knew better than the people of that time, but i don't recall any record of them bragging about it or regarding others as inferiors..

What you perceive as arrogance might simply be someone's way of telling you that you happen to be wrong. Usually, if one has the supporting material to back up their argument, it's not so much arrogance as a genuine effort to educate the other side as to why they've made an error.

In certain instances, an egregious post that can be defined as "uninformed opinion" based without fact will be called out. I'm not sure who would do this sort of thing, but they're obviously bastards when they do. This said, the execrable reply from the original poster that is occasionally put forward typically only serves to reinforce the original point of the "arrogant bastard".

For the record, Einstein fled Europe because he was a smart Jew with ideas he didn't want the "arrogant" to have, Aristotle fled Athens because of "arrogant" hypocrisy and Galileo got put under house arrest because he was too "arrogant" in God's eyes. The argument isn't so much that they weren't humble human beings, but that they happened to be right, and what they knew made others perceive them to be dangers to a particular opinion. Incidentally, that's sort of why I hang around here...


Oh, and hookedoncandycanes hasn't read NEAR enough of my posts.
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/7/22/icannotbraint128612173001498795.jpg

[Hoplite]

For the record, Einstein fled Europe because he was a smart Jew with ideas he didn't want the "arrogant" to have, Aristotle fled Athens because of "arrogant" hypocrisy and Galileo got put under house arrest because he was too "arrogant" in God's eyes. The argument isn't so much that they weren't humble human beings, but that they happened to be right, and what they knew made others perceive them to be dangers to a particular opinion. Incidentally, that's sort of why I hang around here...


totally agreed....however, "i'm open to new ideas, and i admit the fact that i may be wrong"...but lack of the mentality to accept that == "arrogance"

as for the cases of Galileo or Aristotle or Einstein, the people you defined as "arrogant" are the ones who were arrogant :B

[Sinanju]

Admitting you are wrong about anything ever is like giving into terrorism.

[hookedoncandycanes]

Oh, and hookedoncandycanes hasn't read NEAR enough of my posts.


You're real cute. However, 1. Your post served little to no purpose at the time I read it and 2. Perhaps governing your tongue on a site where younger kids get on may be something I could recommend to you.

However, I'm not a moderator nor do I want to start an argument with you. :) Do what you want, you're your own person.

Aaaaand I totally agree with your latter post btw. However, you can be right and arrogant. I just think that arrogance is part of the human spectrum of emotions/exuding ideas and so it's hard not to appear arrogant literally almost all the time. After all, if you know you're right you aren't going to just sit by and let someone be ignorant. You're going to shove your knowledge/information/wisdom off onto them which, depending on the person interpreting, could come off as a tad arrogant.

But I'd rather appear arrogant and be right then appear ignorant and be wrong. It's a lesser of two evils.

-hoc²

[Vendetta]

You're real cute. However, 1. Your post served little to no purpose at the time I read it and 2. Perhaps governing your tongue on a site where younger kids get on may be something I could recommend to you.
Conversely, maybe young kids shouldn't be running rampant all over the intertubes, mouthing off about crap they obviously don't have the first idea about.

[CatBoxed]

You're real cute.

Yes.

However, 1. Your post served little to no purpose at the time I read it and 2. Perhaps governing your tongue on a site where younger kids get on may be something I could recommend to you.

As to point 1, there's obviously a human filter as to what one wants to absorb at a particular point in time. I'm glad you took the time to reread it in its context.

Point 2 would definitely be our point of contention. While your recommendation is certainly well-received, younger kids can get on any site if they're savvy enough and see boobies, cocks, goatse, tubgirl and any variation of internet rule 34 if they so desire. My f-bombs are certainly not the least of their parents' worries, certainly in the context of where we're posting.

However, I'm not a moderator nor do I want to start an argument with you. :) Do what you want, you're your own person.

Indeed.

Aaaaand I totally agree with your latter post btw. However, you can be right and arrogant. I just think that arrogance is part of the human spectrum of emotions/exuding ideas and so it's hard not to appear arrogant literally almost all the time. After all, if you know you're right you aren't going to just sit by and let someone be ignorant. You're going to shove your knowledge/information/wisdom off onto them which, depending on the person interpreting, could come off as a tad arrogant.

I honestly can't say a damn thing to the contrary. In the end, it's all up to the person on the receiving end of the information/criticism/advice/ad nausem to perceive it as arrogant or not. Typically, those who already have set views of how things work in the world are the most likely to view opposing arguments as arrogant, even while showing it amongst their inacceptance of valid ideas.

Keep in mind though, this does NOT apply to scientifically sound counterpoints where a single "I think that..." or "I read that..." suffices for what the poster thinks is coherent reasoning.

But I'd rather appear arrogant and be right then appear ignorant and be wrong. It's a lesser of two evils.

To that regard, there is some gratification in being a dick.

-hoc²

If you're really doing the chemical formula thing, it's a subscript instead of superscript. This is purely on a professional level of advice. If you're going for math, fine, but use parentheses, otherwise we don't know if the entire variable is hoc or c.

[Vaultdweller]

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/7/22/icannotbraint128612173001498795.jpg
Dude, how did you get a picture of my cat? Big Brother must be trigger-happy for disclosure.

Back to topic, though: if arrogance can be defined as overconfidence, then yes, it is a bad thing.

I offer up the last Bush presidency as evidence of this.

[josephdead]

Your perception is your reality. If you believe someone is arrogant, than they are. However in you belief of this, are you your self not being arrogant? IN any case Im not half as smart as CatBoxed, and he put in ways that are hard to argue with.

[CatBoxed]

Your perception is your reality. If you believe someone is arrogant, then they are. However, in your belief of this, are you yourself not being arrogant? In any case, I'm not half as smart as CatBoxed, and he puts things in ways that are hard to argue with.

Can't argue with bold, son.

[NeonLightChild]

Your perception is your reality. If you believe someone is arrogant, than they are.

Perception can't argue with what's ultimately real, and hence, most likely right.

Kind of how a sterile laboratory environment has nothing on the real world just outside.

[Ireshaimase]

I do find there are arrogant people all over the place. I also find it that closed-mindedness can often go hand in hand with arrogance.

I remember when I was knee high to a grasshopper, my sister, friend and I were registering our team at a curling event. I think we were 15 and 16 at the time. The fellow at the sign up desk told us, "If you're under 18, you need an adult to captain your team."

We didn't have anyone to do so. We told him, "We drove up without an adult, what are we supposed to do?" His expression didn't change, and he repeated himself in the same tone. We even asked if he would be our adult captain, he just said the exact same thing, same tone. No flex. No politeness. No good customer service. He put himself far above us. He just saw three punk kids... three punk curling kids.

Anyways, I think he was pretty arrogant.

[Ireshaimase]

I guess I was a little luckier in College. I can't think of ever having any arrogant professors. I even had my own chance at teaching (English on a conversational basis), and it never made me arrogant, that I know of.

However, I did (and do) work at a resort. With my customer service face on, I sometimes feel a kind of fakeness, or hoity toitiness that I hope does not become (or hasn't already become) some kind of arrogance.

Does it all boil down to wearing a tie? (j/k about that)

The hotel I work at now has been compared to another close by on more than one occasion. On tripadvisor, a reviewer said that at my hotel, the front desk staff differ from the other hotel by not carrying the attitude of 'we're so great, we work at the something hotel.'

I'm not mentioning hotel names, I would hate this to come up in a google search. (lol)

[Vendetta]

I do find there are arrogant people all over the place. I also find it that closed-mindedness can often go hand in hand with arrogance.

I remember when I was knee high to a grasshopper, my sister, friend and I were registering our team at a curling event. I think we were 15 and 16 at the time. The fellow at the sign up desk told us, "If you're under 18, you need an adult to captain your team."

We didn't have anyone to do so. We told him, "We drove up without an adult, what are we supposed to do?" His expression didn't change, and he repeated himself in the same tone. We even asked if he would be our adult captain, he just said the exact same thing, same tone. No flex. No politeness. No good customer service. He put himself far above us. He just saw three punk kids... three punk curling kids.

Anyways, I think he was pretty arrogant.
I think, going just by what you've written, it sounds like he was going more by rules rather than arrogance. Yes some people stubbornly refuse to bend rules, even when it's obvious enforcing said rule is ridiculous. That doesn't make them arrogant, just obstinate.

[Ireshaimase]

I think, going just by what you've written, it sounds like he was going more by rules rather than arrogance. Yes some people stubbornly refuse to bend rules, even when it's obvious enforcing said rule is ridiculous. That doesn't make them arrogant, just obstinate.

Obstinate. There's a new one for my vocab book.

Yah, he was definitely obstinate, he would not flex or listen. The way he responded to us though, he had a holier than thou attitude. Like a sense of, "Listen you stupid kids, I am the one in control here and you have no value in my presence."

[buzzsaw133]

Arrogance is only a problem if it gets you in trouble.

[Shaman Wake]

Arrogance is only a problem if it gets you in trouble.

Let's look at a few definitions of arrogance:

"offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride." -- Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arrogance)

"an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions." -- Merriam-Webster.com (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogance)

As "trouble" references something which causes "worry, distress, or agitation" and "offensive" means "causing resentful displeasure," and because we are members of a social species, arrogance will just about always spell out trouble to one degree or another, depending on the social status of both yourself and the person(s) you pissed of with said arrogance.

As "presumptuous" means "unwarrantedly or impertinently bold" (which is fancy-talk for "more bold than you really ought to be")it is only a matter of time until arrogance in action causes some sort of failure which could potentially cause anything from "worry, distress, or agitation" to a horrific death.

In other words the very nature of arrogance is that it is a fairly dependable source of trouble.

As for Tempest's original post about her teacher being called arrogant for using proper grammar and correcting people I genuinely fail to see how it qualifies. If he actually knows what he's talking about a correction isn't presumptuous so much as it is a civil service against ignorance and/or misinformation. And if someone is willing to consider using proper grammar as a "display of superiority" they're really setting the bar for "superiority" pretty low, don't you think?

[buzzsaw133]

Exactly, it's oxymoronic.

[DarkWolf]

Exactly, it's oxymoronic.
How so?

Arrogance is a description of observed behaviour where by the "arrogant person" is displaying a sense of self-importance that others perceive as offensive. The term is not self-contradicting and as far as I can tell doesn't fit the definition. Or am I missing something?

[buzzsaw133]

Arrogance is depending on the other person's point of view. Normally, arrogance in itself casuses problems. In essence, arrogance always causes problems, their for it is always a problem.

[Shaman Wake]

Arrogance is depending on the other person's point of view.

Not necessarily. Recall that part of arrogance is being more bold than is warranted, not more bold than others believe you should be. You can, in fact, be arrogant without other people even being involved. If you decide to shoot yourself in the head because you believe that you and your super-slick skills will allow you to catch the bullet in your teeth you are arrogant in that you think much too highly of yourself, you're certainly in trouble, and no other persons nor their viewpoints are involved.

[DarkWolf]

Also, an oxymoron is where the word or phrase is self-contradicting (e.g. cruel kindness). It has nothing to do with "causing trouble" or even people's viewpoints. It's based on the word's/phrase's definition and use.

[buzzsaw133]

Exactly, Arrogance itself causes problems, therefore saying that arrogance is only a problem when it causes problems in cantradicting itself in the fact that Arrogance is a problem.

Either way, I think everyone here, unless they are arrogant themselves, will agree with me. Arrogance is one of the most annoying things.

[DarkWolf]

Exactly, Arrogance itself causes problems, therefore saying that arrogance is only a problem when it causes problems in cantradicting itself in the fact that Arrogance is a problem.
Firstly that's not what contradiction means and secondly, whether arrogance is a problem or not makes no difference as to whether the word is an oxymoron. Perhaps you should pay more attention to English class, kid.

Either way, I think everyone here, unless they are arrogant themselves, will agree with me. Arrogance is one of the most annoying things.
So, your opinion about how annoying arrogance is must be more important than anyone elses? Isn't that, kinda, ya know, arrogant? :o

Well I must be very arrogant to you (and if so, coming from you, I'd consider it a compliment) because I fail to see how arrogance is the most annoying thing. Idiocy on the other hand I find much more annoying. I find being ill a lot even more annoying. I also have a pet peeve about people using "ect" instead of "etc".

In case it might interest you; I am not actually being arrogant here because I'm not putting my opinions as if they are more important. People having a different opinion than you doesn't make them arrogant. You calling them such for having a different opinion does make you arrogant, though.

No, what I'm being here is condescending. Quite deliberately so. Please, this time, don't whine at me through PM: it's tacky.

[buzzsaw133]

Sooo, this really tells me alot about you...Gods be praised for psychology...

[GhostBat]

I hate to interrupt, but I just have to say that this is all so very fitting. Carry on.

[Shaman Wake]

Sooo, this really tells me alot about you...Gods be praised for psychology...

It took a psych class for you to know that repeatedly asserting something which has already been proven incorrect will annoy people who actually know what they're talking about?

[Szayel]

hmmm arrogance isn't a bad thing unless you are being arrogant without ,actually, knowing what you are doing, or if you a ignorant. There is nothing wrong with being confident with you abilities, unless you really don't know what you're talking about.

[Fenris_brood]

hmmm arrogance isn't a bad thing unless you are being arrogant without ,actually, knowing what you are doing, or if you a ignorant. There is nothing wrong with being confident with you abilities, unless you really don't know what you're talking about.

This post is a paradox.

[Szayel]

This post is a paradox.

Let me dumb it down for you.
Its okay to arrogant in what you do, BUT, if you are a retard and don't know what you're doing, then it isn't. Because then, all you woulf be doing is boasting how about how stupid you are. So.... if you are wrong, and you know you are wrong, don't be arrogant. Better?

[Szayel]

But its better not to be arrogant, as most people dislike it. Weirdly enough, I, myself usually do not mind it.

[Chiron Jackal]

Let me dumb it down for you.
Its okay to arrogant in what you do, BUT, if you are a retard and don't know what you're doing, then it isn't. Because then, all you woulf be doing is boasting how about how stupid you are. So.... if you are wrong, and you know you are wrong, don't be arrogant. Better?

We discussed this previously in the thread. Specifically it was discussed that arrogance involves the opinion being decidedly greater than the reality.

This would mean that a highly skilled person who is arrogant about their skills inaccurately believes their skills to be better than they are, which is potentially dangerous if they ever need to depend on their skills.

On a related note, "dumbing down" something for an established member in a thread you clearly did not bother to read is really fucking arrogant.

And also stupid.

[MorganaFang]

Let me dumb it down for you.
Its okay to arrogant in what you do, BUT, if you are a retard and don't know what you're doing, then it isn't. Because then, all you woulf be doing is boasting how about how stupid you are. So.... if you are wrong, and you know you are wrong, don't be arrogant. Better?

There is a difference between being confident and being arrogant. Arrogant is being ignorant and usually feigning confidence or overcompensating.

That's dumbing down a Paradox for you, buddeh. :)

Spanx, though if you were just demonstrating what it's like to be a arrogant twad. :)

[Szayel]

We discussed this previously in the thread. Specifically it was discussed that arrogance involves the opinion being decidedly greater than the reality.

This would mean that a highly skilled person who is arrogant about their skills inaccurately believes their skills to be better than they are, which is potentially dangerous if they ever need to depend on their skills.

On a related note, "dumbing down" something for an established member in a thread you clearly did not bother to read is really fucking arrogant.

And also stupid.

Was I talking to you? I said "dumb down" because he didn't understand my REPLY. And my answer wasn't about "what you established previously in the conversation" it was in response to what the owner is asking. "Is arrogance a bad thing? And why is it frowned upon."

[DarkWolf]

Was I talking to you? It's an open discussion forum - it makes no difference who you are talking to. Anyone may respond to anything you say. If you do not want people responding to your words then use a private message instead. The fact I have to explain this to you is quite worrying. And it did require explanation because you clearly don't understand the concept of open discussion forums otherwise you would not ask such a ridiculously moronic question.

I said "dumb down" because he didn't understand my REPLY.Considering you have demonstrated a complete lack in understanding what the word arrogance means in every conceivable way is it any wonder? He didn't need it dumbed down, he just needed you to not be dumb.

And my answer wasn't about "what you established previously in the conversation" it was in response to what the owner is asking. "Is arrogance a bad thing? And why is it frowned upon."Being ignorant by accident is fairly forgiveable. Choosing to be ignorant, such as what you are doing, is not. If you cannot be bothered to read the thread you're replying to then you are going to get nasty responses because you're being an ignorant fucktard. This is a conversation not a survey.

What was it you said about being arrogant and not knowing what you're talking about and being ignorant? Hmm, hypocrites abound, oh my.

[Fenris_brood]

Let me dumb it down for you.
Its okay to arrogant in what you do, BUT, if you are a retard and don't know what you're doing, then it isn't. Because then, all you woulf be doing is boasting how about how stupid you are. So.... if you are wrong, and you know you are wrong, don't be arrogant. Better?

Despite every member having responded to this, let ME dumb it down a bit for you.

Let us look at your post again since I think you have the memory capacity of a goldfish.

hmmm arrogance isn't a bad thing unless you are being arrogant without ,actually, knowing what you are doing, or if you a ignorant. There is nothing wrong with being confident with you abilities, unless you really don't know what you're talking about.

Now, in this post you demonstrate sheer arrogance in what you are defining, both coming up with a concept you seemingly don't understand, since you are insulting your own self and pointlessly failing to contribute with anything articulate to a forum you're new at and are already hated by.

The true paradox here is that, you, having this notion of arrogance clashes greatly with the fact that you haven't commited suicide by the sheer knowledge that you're the cancer that's killing the world.

[Chiron Jackal]

Dear Szayel,

Thank you for bringing back the old Werewolf.com. I've missed it truly.

Hugs-n-Kisses
w3r3 hunter

[Bane]

Was I talking to you? I said "dumb down" because he didn't understand my REPLY. And my answer wasn't about "what you established previously in the conversation" it was in response to what the owner is asking. "Is arrogance a bad thing? And why is it frowned upon."



Are you stupid or just really high? Because you seem to post retarded shit where ever you go. I personally find it funny, so please don't stop. But just to warn you, ignorance is not bliss, We had it checked, and found that it actually just makes shit worse. Oh, and you shouldn't act like you are smarter than someone who's shown they know how to use a dictionary to actually research topics before discussing them. I have a special word for people like you. It's so simple it can't be defined wrong.


FOOL!

[GhostBat]

I feel like I should close this thread, but honestly considering the title of the thread, it's really not that off topic.

Let's reign it in a little, though.

[Szayel]

Despite every member having responded to this, let ME dumb it down a bit for you.

Let us look at your post again since I think you have the memory capacity of a goldfish.



Now, in this post you demonstrate sheer arrogance in what you are defining, both coming up with a concept you seemingly don't understand, since you are insulting your own self and pointlessly failing to contribute with anything articulate to a forum you're new at and are already hated by.

The true paradox here is that, you, having this notion of arrogance clashes greatly with the fact that you haven't commited suicide by the sheer knowledge that you're the cancer that's killing the world.

Ouch. My feelings =p