Ban 'Midget' From TV, Little People Group Says

[MorganaFang]

NEW YORK — Little people are calling on the Federal Communications Commission to ban the use of the word "midget" on broadcast TV.

The group Little People of America said Sunday the word is just as offensive as racial slurs.

The request was prompted by an April episode of NBC's "Celebrity Apprentice" that the group said was demeaning.

In the episode, contestants created a detergent ad called "Jesse James and the Midgets." The contestants, including Joan Rivers, suggested bathing little people in the detergent and hanging them to dry.

Calls to the FCC and "Celebrity Apprentice" host Donald Trump were not immediately answered Sunday. NBC Universal representatives didn't immediately respond to e-mail messages, and the telephone rang unanswered at their Los Angeles office.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/05/ban-midget-from-tv-little_n_225899.html

To a certain extent I agree that they should put limits on the use of the word, much like other derogatory terms since it really encourages more callous tossing of the term around. It is hurtful to actual little people and unfair that they're still getting pretty prejudiced against.

I don't think the exploitative reality shows are helping them either.

[Wolf-Bone]

tossing of the term around.

I agree. The time for tossing midget around has come and gone.

[Chriz]

To a certain extent I agree that they should put limits on the use of the word, much like other derogatory terms since it really encourages more callous tossing of the term around.

I disagree. By defining a certain word as "hurtful" (when its definition has nothing to do with that) all you do is give those who would be prejudiced against you more ammo.

Why in the world would "midget" be derogatory? Do they think those that spit out "midget" under their breath won't now just spit out "little person" with the same emotion?

This PC shit is getting out of hand.

[MorganaFang]

I disagree. By defining a certain word as "hurtful" (when its definition has nothing to do with that) all you do is give those who would be prejudiced against you more ammo.

Well I agree with that too to an extent.

I'm not phrasing myself too well trying to juggle ideas right now. I'm not exactly all for the complete removal of the word from TV.

But at the same time I don't think Joan River's joke was all that tactful.

Are a group of people who feel themselves put down by the term valid to feel that way?


Hmm.. Ok So I'm trying to think as I respond because I want to have an honest discussion about this instead of getting backed into a corner. :p

Maybe instead of digging myself into a hole here I pose the question would it be possible to make a term become less derogatory or in Randell's words "take it back"?

[Wolf-Bone]

I disagree. By defining a certain word as "hurtful" (when its definition has nothing to do with that) all you do is give those who would be prejudiced against you more ammo.

Why in the world would "midget" be derogatory? Do they think those that spit out "midget" under their breath won't now just spit out "little person" with the same emotion?

This PC shit is getting out of hand.

It's well intentioned. It comes from a sentiment of not wanting to cause undue hurt to people who have a disadvantage. But there's a problem with the logic behind it because it attempts to change thoughts and actions that can't be changed by words alone.

The entire reason PC advocates of all stripes seem to have to reinvent their very terminology every few years is because while the sentiment towards a word's meaning might change, the reality that it not only refers to a certain type of person, but one who is, in some way disadvantaged doesn't.

Two things need to change, not rhetorically, but culturally. People need to accept the fact that they have disadvantages (even a lot of people who somewhat do still try to compensate and construct entire schemes of how they're not just equal to, but superior to everyone else so clearly, they're still somewhat in denial) and people need to stop seeing weakness as a thing to be ashamed of.

I don't disagree at all that little peoples emotional well-being is just as important as their physical/social protection. But changing simple wording won't make people stop seeing smaller stature as what it is, which is a disadvantage over the average person and therefore an inherent inferiority in their minds. People don't need to stop equating "X" with disadvantaged, they need to stop equating disadvantaged with inferior.

Maybe I'm in the minority on this next point but, to me, "midget" is actually more neutral than "little person" when taking these truths into account. Little, as opposed to? Big, tall, normal, or even just average.

I know I'm probably being more verbose than necessary to make these points but I just can't stress them enough. In the name of journalistic integrity, I felt it necessary to follow up on my previous post which, due to my poor choice of words could have been taken the wrong way. While I am of the opinion that term "midget" is outdated, I'm not trying to start an anti-midget cult on these forums...

... But you people are kidding yourselves if you think for a moment one doesn't exist, however subtle...

[UNODRAGONE]

definition of midget:
noun 1. (not in technical use) an extremely small person having normal physical proportions.
I don't see anything derogatory about that, just means someone is short. What I don't get is why 'little people' (hate that term) are offended by the word dwarf when in fact that is the correct definition/word. I am 4'11 so I beat classifying as a dwarf by an inch (split hairs all you want I am still not a dwarf :p) and I am obviously not bothered by the word midget at all but there is a women at my job who is 4'8 and cannot stand to be called midget or dwarf, she prefers not to be labeled. I also think it is the way it is being said as well. I see the phrase 'little people' more hurtful then midget but maybe thats because I am use to the word :shrug:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/midget

[WhiteHowlerGalliard]

The word only has the power you allow it.

And people can be inclined to be negative towards others.

While I agree that people need to be taught that disadvantaged No Longer means inferior, it is my guess that over the course of humanity's evolution, shorter people were at a disadvantage, and therefore were less likely to produce healthy offspring. The tendency was/is to mate taller, stronger, and smarter. I think it's a subconscious, psychological/chemical thing.

Therefore, we'd need to make people be aware and rise above not only culture, but their own genetic programming.

[Klark]

Therefore, we'd need to make people be aware and rise above not only culture, but their own genetic programming.

And welcome to one of the oddities of the human condition.

Our instincts for mating are falling victim to the mental override that our brains provide us, and our brains are the one thing that truly separates us from slinging shit at each other...wait, I mean literal shit, not hypothetical or rhetorical. Well, it's what gives us our edge over the competition in Species War.

We have allowed to happen what generally no other species has allowed to happen. We allow our physically weak specimens to live. We don't kill them, their mothers don't eat them at birth, and we don't have to worry about natural predators snatching weakened babies from cribs.

Why? Because mentally they are strong and we humans have for some time now considered brains over brawn to be the way of the world. We even let our mentally weakened species members to live.

I agree with Bone. People who would view their disadvantage as a weakness need to stop thinking about it that way. Everyone wants equality but don't dare call me a midget, or dwarf, or giant, or fat, or anything that might otherwise describe my physical appearance because it offends me. What a crock, I say. You might as well get offended at red-head, blonde, black-haired, blue-eyed, green-eyed, tan, or any other of a thousand words that could describe any aspect of a person.

Your physical description is simply that. Turning a non-derogatory word into one viewed as that to me is simply a way to capture 15 minutes of fame or ask for money.

[Tempest]

You can't just look at the definition of a word and say, "Well, there's no reason that's offensive!" By that thinking, racial slurs shouldn't be offensive, either, because they just mean a member of a certain race. It's not the definition of the word, it's the meaning behind it. This is why some people have problems with cursing. Not because of the definition (people accept words with similar meanings just fine), but because of the meaning behind the words (generally, swear words are meant to be offensive--though some people tend to use them way more often than they should).

This is also why certain words (ahem, starts with an "n") are acceptable in some contexts while not in others. Yes, people swear to express pain or displeasure or whatever, but some people generalize the offensive meaning behind swear words to the point that everyone who swears is being offensive.

Getting back to the current debate, I think a similar thing is going on here. Not everyone who says midget is trying to be offensive, but little people have apparently begun to interpret all uses of the word as offensive, maybe because some people really are using it in an offensive way. Now, I'm not advocating banning the word "midget" from TV, but I'm asking, why the double standard? Why don't we accept racial slurs but "midget" is just fine? Yes, racial slurs have more history behind them, but that doesn't change the fact that both racial slurs and "midget" offend people.

However, I do think TV should be less degrading when it comes to little people. It's crazy how they portray them sometimes, and now they're capitalizing on them with "reality" TV shows. Maybe if TV and people in general were a little more respectful, the use of the word "midget" would be okay. This is where I agree with Wolf-Bone: Society really does need to change.

[Vendetta]

Here's what should happen. ALL duragatory and racial slurs should be brought back into common use, with one caveat: if you use a term, be prepared to have the crap beat out of them by anyone who's offended at that word being directed at them. This would have the double benefit of getting rid of the true bigots who can't help themselves, while hopefully helping certain segments of the population to develop thicker skin.

[UNODRAGONE]

You can't just look at the definition of a word and say, "Well, there's no reason that's offensive!" By that thinking, racial slurs shouldn't be offensive, either, because they just mean a member of a certain race. It's not the definition of the word, it's the meaning behind it. This is why some people have problems with cursing. Not because of the definition (people accept words with similar meanings just fine), but because of the meaning behind the words (generally, swear words are meant to be offensive--though some people tend to use them way more often than they should).

This is also why certain words (ahem, starts with an "n") are acceptable in some contexts while not in others. Yes, people swear to express pain or displeasure or whatever, but some people generalize the offensive meaning behind swear words to the point that everyone who swears is being offensive.

Getting back to the current debate, I think a similar thing is going on here. Not everyone who says midget is trying to be offensive, but little people have apparently begun to interpret all uses of the word as offensive, maybe because some people really are using it in an offensive way. Now, I'm not advocating banning the word "midget" from TV, but I'm asking, why the double standard? Why don't we accept racial slurs but "midget" is just fine? Yes, racial slurs have more history behind them, but that doesn't change the fact that both racial slurs and "midget" offend people.

However, I do think TV should be less degrading when it comes to little people. It's crazy how they portray them sometimes, and now they're capitalizing on them with "reality" TV shows. Maybe if TV and people in general were a little more respectful, the use of the word "midget" would be okay. This is where I agree with Wolf-Bone: Society really does need to change.


I owe you an apology Tempest, I was ignorant with my thinking on the definition alone and you are right that, it may just be a word with one meaning, but it has others and it depends on the meaning behind it. I’ll use my racial slur as an example. I don’t allow anyone to call me a guinea or WOP (with out papers) even Italians. True, guinea was just used to refer to someone of Italian decent and WOP was used to mean someone without legal papers, but, those words were created from prejudice/racism with the intent on singling my people out. I have met Italians here who will say ‘hey what up guinea’ and I will correct them quickly, Italian or non Italian the original intent of the word was used as a racial slur and has been used on me with that intent and I won’t tolerate it. I know that the few Italians here meant no harm calling me that, they ‘made it their own’ but still if I don’t like a non-Italian calling me it I’m going to lead by example and not allow anyone to call me it. Thank you for opening my eyes Tempest :) I have question for you guys......since they do not want anyone to call them 'midget', do you guys feel they should lead by example and not call each other it as well? I have no idea if they do or not, I don't watch the show but if they called each other that while at the same time stated people who are not 'little people' can't, what would be your thoughts on it?

[Klark]

All in due time, "little people" will be seen as derogatory.

Perhaps we should call them people. Short people, tall people, skinny bitches..er, I mean people, fat people, white people, dark people, slightly-tanned folk.

As long as there is a descriptor, regardless of whether it's ever used derogatory or not, there will be people offended by it.

As half native American, I don't get offended when someone refers to my ancestors as Redskins. Nor am I offended as a half-white American when someone calls me white boy, honky, cracker, redneck, or the oppressor. As the only white cab driver in a black-owned/operated taxi cab company in the early 2000's, I was called all that. I was even referred to as nigga by more than a few fares of dark skin decent. Primarily when I made them laugh hard and they say, "Nigga please!" They would then promptly apologize. I told them no apology was necessary. I always thought it was odd that they apologized for it.

As you can see, I have no problem with the oft-seen derogatory terms because I do not allow words to define me, define who am I or how I'm seen.

Obviously the midgets didn't have a problem with it back in the day. After recently watching "The Wizard of Oz", I saw that the Munchkins were a group of singers called, "The Midget Singers".

[Chriz]

Why don't we accept racial slurs but "midget" is just fine? Yes, racial slurs have more history behind them, but that doesn't change the fact that both racial slurs and "midget" offend people.

Our aversion to racial slurs is pretty irrational, actually. The only people keeping "nigger" offensive are, well, the niggers.

Words reflect thoughts. If the thought is hateful, the words will be hateful, regardless of what word is actually used. But it doesn't work in reverse. If I use a word you think is hateful, it doesn't mean I used it in hate.

If you ban a word because those who use it use it in hate, they'll just find another word to use in hate. Then you have to ban that word. Seems kinda pointless to me. :shrug:

[Vendetta]

Our aversion to racial slurs is pretty irrational, actually. The only people keeping "nigger" offensive are, well, the niggers.

Words reflect thoughts. If the thought is hateful, the words will be hateful, regardless of what word is actually used. But it doesn't work in reverse. If I use a word you think is hateful, it doesn't mean I used it in hate.

If you ban a word because those who use it use it in hate, they'll just find another word to use in hate. Then you have to ban that word. Seems kinda pointless to me. :shrug:
I agree.

We should just ban the people instead.

[Tempest]

If you ban a word because those who use it use it in hate, they'll just find another word to use in hate. Then you have to ban that word. Seems kinda pointless to me. :shrug:

Yes, that's why I don't agree with banning the word "midget" on TV. It's what's gotten us into this ridiculous PC situation, which is now to the point that I can barely keep up with what's correct and what's not. I was just pointing out why it could be seen as offensive by little people. I think Bone has it right, but how do you change how people view disabled people? TV certainly does not help by showing midgets hanging out to dry. Little people pretty much are only on TV as butts of jokes. Though I haven't seen the new reality show(s), so I can't say if they're more respectful or not.

[Wolf-Bone]

Sorry, but I disagree with everything that's been said about the word "nigger" and other racial slurs in this thread. I used to be more on your guys' side, but certain life experiences have made that impossible.

I've known a lot of black people and been acquainted with many more, and I've met my fair share of them who are not at all nice or even good people. Believe me, I've been downright infuriated by some of the things they've said and done, but when looking for words to describe what that is and why it offends me, "being a nigger" has never come to mind. I wouldn't call any person I've met, black or otherwise, subhuman, 3/5 of a man, fit only to be a slave. That's what nigger means. There's loads bad you could say about some people, but I've never seen a negative quality in someone of one color than I haven't seen in another so to differentiate between "black" good and bad and "white" good and bad to me just seems ridiculous.

Lately, I'm more in line with the "nobody should call anybody a nigger" crowd. It's for a lot of reasons. The most important for me I've already mentioned, but also, like Klark, I've been called nigger/nigga by black people! It's like for some of them it's such a deeply ingrained "term of endearment" that their brains sometimes override the "for people of the same color" part. God forbid, right? So then why even bother having the word? It's old meaning never did apply to anybody, and its newer meaning has reached official absurdity. It's an inherently divisive word even if it's not universally offensive.

[Chriz]

Sorry, but I disagree with everything that's been said about the word "nigger" and other racial slurs in this thread. I used to be more on your guys' side, but certain life experiences have made that impossible.

I've known a lot of black people and been acquainted with many more, and I've met my fair share of them who are not at all nice or even good people. Believe me, I've been downright infuriated by some of the things they've said and done, but when looking for words to describe what that is and why it offends me, "being a nigger" has never come to mind. I wouldn't call any person I've met, black or otherwise, subhuman, 3/5 of a man, fit only to be a slave. That's what nigger means. There's loads bad you could say about some people, but I've never seen a negative quality in someone of one color than I haven't seen in another so to differentiate between "black" good and bad and "white" good and bad to me just seems ridiculous.

Lately, I'm more in line with the "nobody should call anybody a nigger" crowd. It's for a lot of reasons. The most important for me I've already mentioned, but also, like Klark, I've been called nigger/nigga by black people! It's like for some of them it's such a deeply ingrained "term of endearment" that their brains sometimes override the "for people of the same color" part. God forbid, right? So then why even bother having the word? It's old meaning never did apply to anybody, and its newer meaning has reached official absurdity. It's an inherently divisive word even if it's not universally offensive.

Nigga please!