The Therian in your Spirituality

[CrypticMaddness]

So many time's I've seen reference in general converstation that only pagan like religions reconize therians. This may be true as a whole in religion, but what about select people? I've known many christians to be quite close and open about the wild side they call therian. I've also met Catholic's that believe in the healing power of the earth around them.

So how does does your therian relate to your spirituality? I'm really curious on how others view therianthropy outside a pagan based occult.

[Xavious]

I've found it's possible to ‘blend’ a few aspects of Christianity and Therianthropy. I use Therianthropy mainly as a system of meditation to separate myself from the secular world and get closer to nature and ‘the animal within’. Unlike most Christians, I believe that all creatures, animal and human, have a soul and when the body dies the soul goes on to another plane of existence (heaven or hell) or stay in this one. While I do not worship these spirits I believe it is okay to associate with them, similar to the idea of a guardian angel. I also believe that, in religious views, humans and animals are equal beings. I draw these beliefs from various verses in the Bible, the most significant being Ecclesiastes 3:19-21.
19 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again. 21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down to the earth?

[Darth Cluich]

I'm sensing the birth of a new candy bar...

"You got your therianthropy in my spirituality!"

"You got your spirituality in my therianthropy!"

:p

[---Arawn---]

I was catholic one day. All my family is catholic. And was exactly the catholic view that animals don't have souls that made me question about the entire religion and turn into a pagan. I wondered why the animals wouldn't have soul, if WE are animals too. Just because we can use the reason, (and that doesn't mean think, animals can do it too), don't means that we are superior. I don't think there are much christian therians. This kind of view of the animals would repress the feeling (if you can call theriantropy a feeling). I believe that Xavious is the only one :p

[MidnightMagic]

I was catholic one day. All my family is catholic. And was exactly the catholic view that animals don't have souls that made me question about the entire religion and turn into a pagan. I wondered why the animals wouldn't have soul, if WE are animals too. Just because we can use the reason, (and that doesn't mean think, animals can do it too), don't means that we are superior. I don't think there are much christian therians. This kind of view of the animals would repress the feeling (if you can call theriantropy a feeling). I believe that Xavious is the only one :p

I've never read anywhere in the bible that it says animals DON'T have souls. The only reason I'm not still sobbing over the fact my faithful dog, Charlie, died last July is because I believe that I'll see him in heaven when I die. I'm not pagan either, or Roman Catholic for that matter. I'm a protestant. We're the more normal of the Christians. The only animals that I believe don't go to heaven are the ones that have killed and eaten people in their life times. They probably go to hell, but I have a strange feeling the Devil would keep them as pets rather than torture them.

[DarkHunter]

We all need pets.


That does bring a thought to mind. If animals don't have souls and we are animals, what does that suggest really anymore?

What Bible are you reading? The Catholic Bible has an entire other book added in that was taken out in other versions.

Well I think the biblical division between Animals and Humans is in Genesis when God gives Adam dominion over animals. Suggesting a superiority.

[WhiteCrowUK]

I've never read anywhere in the bible that it says animals DON'T have souls.

I think all this comes from Genesis where man is the favoured creation of God and is given dominion over all the Earth (and we've been fucking it up ever since).

Putting this question into Google, here is the mad Christian stance on the subject ...

http://johnmyers.com/bible35.html

http://johnmyers.com/bible.gif

Bible Question: "How do we know that animals do not have souls?"

Bible Answer: Because the Bible says so, is the short answer.

In Genesis 1, the creation account says God created all the animals, the birds of the air, the fish and other sea creatures and the living creatures on the earth. Of none of these did God say anything about a soul. They were given life, but not souls.

Then in the latter part of Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 comes the creation of man, the first creature of which it is said has a soul.

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth,'" Genesis 1:27 says.

Personally I don't buy it. But then I believe in evolution as well, so according to Christian John I'm probably going straight to hell ... ;)

http://johnmyers.com/bible37.html

Christians have been ridiculed as idiots for believing in creationism vs. evolution at least since the days of the famous Scopes monkey trial in Tennessee in the 1920s. But the theory of evolution is at best just that, a theory, and believers in evolution are exercising faith in it, just as Christians choose to believe what the Bible says about creation as a matter of faith.

I seriously doubt this issue will ever be settled to the satisfaction of most scientists who choose to believe in evolution.

But as for me, I choose to believe what God says in the Bible, and when I stand before Him on judgment day, I firmly believe that choice will be proven right.

[Xavious]

I was catholic one day. All my family is catholic. And was exactly the catholic view that animals don't have souls that made me question about the entire religion and turn into a pagan. I wondered why the animals wouldn't have soul, if WE are animals too. Just because we can use the reason, (and that doesn't mean think, animals can do it too), don't means that we are superior. I don't think there are much christian therians. This kind of view of the animals would repress the feeling (if you can call theriantropy a feeling). I believe that Xavious is the only one :p

I've met a few (on the internet and real life) with similiar views as I do but a few think some parts are a little extreme.

One thing I have noticed in the Bible is that some people can twist what it says and make it sound biased towards one thing and reject another (In this case whether or not animals have souls).
If anyone was wondering I'm a Southern Baptist.

[DarkHunter]

I think all this comes from Genesis where man is the favoured creation of God and is given dominion over all the Earth (and we've been fucking it up ever since).




Echo echo echo echo echo echo
Echo echo echo echo echo echo
Echo echo echo echo echo echo
Echo echo echo echo echo echo
Echo echo echo echo echo echo
Echo echo echo echo echo echo
Echo echo echo echo echo echo
Echo echo echo echo echo echo
Echo echo echo echo echo echo


:p

[---Arawn---]

Well I dunno about the protestants, but the catholics are meant to follow the church. And if you don't, you're not catholic. They say that the pope never fails. What he says, it's the will of god. I wonder why God changes his mind so much. And why he don't likes condom. And black people. (if you don't know, the church once said that black people don't have any soul).
The church says a lot of crap.
And I wonder when the animals will get a soul as well. I never read the bible (too lazy to do that) but I was always told that animals don't have it.
I think that it's at least arrogancy (or prepotence) of the human being. Thinking that they're superior... Ha!

[DarkHunter]

Well I dunno about the protestants, but the catholics are meant to follow the church. And if you don't, you're not catholic. They say that the pope never fails. What he says, it's the will of god. I wonder why God changes his mind so much. And why he don't likes condom. And black people. (if you don't know, the church once said that black people don't have any soul).
The church says a lot of crap.
And I wonder when the animals will get a soul as well. I never read the bible (too lazy to do that) but I was always told that animals don't have it.
I think that it's at least arrogancy (or prepotence) of the human being. Thinking that they're superior... Ha!

As Mark Twain said on the subject of animals being left out of Heaven and without a soul. "Well it seems like bad taste."

The Catholic Church is one of the most unChristian organizations out there right now. Of course considering they were started by the Romans, the people who KILLED JESUS, I think it makes sense why.

It was a way of "Listen to the Pope" and the Pope will listen to Constantine. Great in theory and a good temporary fix though I don't think Constantine meant for things to go this long.

Though if he could see it he'd probably be laughing his ass off.

I would be.

[Ves]

Of course considering they were started by the Romans, the people who KILLED JESUS, I think it makes sense why.
Erm... wasn't that the Jews?

[DarkHunter]

Erm... wasn't that the Jews?


The Catholic Church says its the Jews to justify the Romans starting them. The Romans were in power at the time and put Jesus to death. The Jew idea comes from the fact that they sat and watched. But considering that A) Christ told everybody he was going to die and B) that the Jews would have been crushed by the Romans had they attempted such an act suggesting a revolt well The Jews can't be blamed.

They figure the Jewish people's inaction is just as bad as nailing him onto the Cross.

[---Arawn---]

The Catholic Church says its the Jews to justify the Romans starting them. The Romans were in power at the time and put Jesus to death. The Jew idea comes from the fact that they sat and watched. But considering that A) Christ told everybody he was going to die and B) that the Jews would have been crushed by the Romans had they attempted such an act suggesting a revolt well The Jews can't be blamed.

They figure the Jewish people's inaction is just as bad as nailing him onto the Cross.

And you can't forget to say, Jesus WAS a jew...
A lot of parts of the bible are invented or modificated to best fit the will of the church... And even some testaments were removed from the original version...

Hmm, I think that this is getting too far from the original question of this post :p

[MidnightMagic]

Well I dunno about the protestants, but the catholics are meant to follow the church. And if you don't, you're not catholic. They say that the pope never fails. What he says, it's the will of god. I wonder why God changes his mind so much. And why he don't likes condom. And black people. (if you don't know, the church once said that black people don't have any soul).
The church says a lot of crap.
And I wonder when the animals will get a soul as well. I never read the bible (too lazy to do that) but I was always told that animals don't have it.
I think that it's at least arrogancy (or prepotence) of the human being. Thinking that they're superior... Ha!

Christians are ment to follow God, and not everything the church says is the way god sees it. People asume too much for their own good.

[Ves]

The Catholic Church says its the Jews to justify the Romans starting them.
No, they say it was the Jews because it was the Jews.
The Romans were put into a position where they had to take him out or they would face a revolt. Jesus espoused peace and love, this they would probably encourage because if someone's getting all the people in the area to be excellent to one another then they (the Romans) don't have to deal with as many insurgents (and they did just as we are in Iraq today).
However, he also taught a religion that didn't require people to go to the temple (which he had already made his somewhat strong views about very clear in an earlier visit). Thus he needed removing.
So more accurately, it wasn't the Jews that had him executed, it was the Jewish Priests.

And yes he was a Jew, indeed was a Rabbi, as was his father before him. Makes me wonder if someone tried to sell his foreskin as a relic back in medieval times.

[---Arawn---]

Christians are ment to follow God, and not everything the church says is the way god sees it. People asume too much for their own good.
Christians, not catholics. To the catholics, the pope is the representative of God in earth. If you don't believe it, you're not catholic, since this is a dogma...
I believe that the catholicism is the biggest anti-christian religion. Or if you prefer, the biggest hypocrite. Catholics were meant to be respectful, caring and that stuff that Jesus said. But I don't think that the Inquisition and saying that other people are inferior are respectful and caring acts...
What Jesus said are really pretty things. Everyone should follow it. But the church is fundamentalist about some things and distorts the others...

[MidnightMagic]

Christians, not catholics. To the catholics, the pope is the representative of God in earth. If you don't believe it, you're not catholic, since this is a dogma...
I believe that the catholicism is the biggest anti-christian religion. Or if you prefer, the biggest hypocrite. Catholics were meant to be respectful, caring and that stuff that Jesus said. But I don't think that the Inquisition and saying that other people are inferior are respectful and caring acts...
What Jesus said are really pretty things. Everyone should follow it. But the church is fundamentalist about some things and distorts the others...

The catholic church seems to be the only one people know about. Do you know how many people I've met that are Athist just because of the catholic church? And the sad thing is no one realizes there is a way to be christian without all that mumbo-jumbo. Though some people don't even reconize Protostants as Christians. It's beyond wierd.

[MidnightMagic]

Bible Answer: Because the Bible says so, is the short answer.

In Genesis 1, the creation account says God created all the animals, the birds of the air, the fish and other sea creatures and the living creatures on the earth. Of none of these did God say anything about a soul. They were given life, but not souls.

Then in the latter part of Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 comes the creation of man, the first creature of which it is said has a soul.

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth,'" Genesis 1:27 says. [/url]

I see this in a totally different way. When god created animals he said nothing about them saving a soul because it's manditory for all living creatures to have souls. Even in the passage about god creating man he doesn't indicate that their is a soul involve it's just sort of a duh. This guys a crazy radical. It's people like that who give the rest of us bad names.

[---Arawn---]

I see this in a totally different way. When god created animals he said nothing about them saving a soul because it's manditory for all living creatures to have souls. Even in the passage about god creating man he doesn't indicate that their is a soul involve it's just sort of a duh. This guys a crazy radical. It's people like that who give the rest of us bad names.

Well, you see it in a different way, but oficialy, to the catholic church (the protestant I don't know), the animals don't have souls. God gave only to the man a soul.

When god created animals he said nothing about them saving a soul because it's manditory for all living creatures to have souls.

You made me think: does every alive creature have souls? Does bacteria and viruses have souls too? A single cell can have a soul? They should, since they're all alive (except the virus... no one knows yet if they're alive or not) :confused:

[DarkHunter]

No, they say it was the Jews because it was the Jews.
The Romans were put into a position where they had to take him out or they would face a revolt. Jesus espoused peace and love, this they would probably encourage because if someone's getting all the people in the area to be excellent to one another then they (the Romans) don't have to deal with as many insurgents (and they did just as we are in Iraq today).
However, he also taught a religion that didn't require people to go to the temple (which he had already made his somewhat strong views about very clear in an earlier visit). Thus he needed removing.
So more accurately, it wasn't the Jews that had him executed, it was the Jewish Priests.

And yes he was a Jew, indeed was a Rabbi, as was his father before him. Makes me wonder if someone tried to sell his foreskin as a relic back in medieval times.


I doubt the Romans bang on what they should do. Peace and love or not from the Roman leadership, rumors of a "King of the Jews" would probably make one offly shaky when sitting on top of an empire.

But anyway! Back to Therianthropy....

[MidnightMagic]

Well, you see it in a different way, but oficialy, to the catholic church (the protestant I don't know), the animals don't have souls. God gave only to the man a soul.



You made me think: does every alive creature have souls? Does bacteria and viruses have souls too? A single cell can have a soul? They should, since they're all alive (except the virus... no one knows yet if they're alive or not) :confused:

I don't really know. One celled organisims that aren't part of a larger organism might. That's one of those questions you really have to ponder.

[---Arawn---]

I don't really know. One celled organisims that aren't part of a larger organism might. That's one of those questions you really have to ponder.
Suddenly, the animism seems to make to much sense to me...
Perhaps single cells can have a soul, and trees, storms, stones, rivers can have it too...

It's better not try to understand this, as we will never know what's the truth... till the day that we die... :(

[Ves]

Perhaps single cells can have a soul, and trees, storms, stones, rivers can have it too...
It's better not try to understand this, as we will never know what's the truth... till the day that we die... :(
All living things have the potential to have a soul. Not all do, including humans.

[WhiteCrowUK]

The Catholic Church says its the Jews to justify the Romans starting them. The Romans were in power at the time and put Jesus to death. The Jew idea comes from the fact that they sat and watched. But considering that A) Christ told everybody he was going to die and B) that the Jews would have been crushed by the Romans had they attempted such an act suggesting a revolt well The Jews can't be blamed.

There is historical evidence to suggest it was the Romans who killed Jesus.

The Jewish punishment for blastphemy was stoning to death. It was only the Romans who used crucifixion, and they used it to enforce their law.

Also the Romans documented many of the trials of Pilate - and usually he had anyone brought before him put to death. It suggests the image of Pilate in the Bible is at odds with the documented evidence of the time.

[Ves]

There is historical evidence to suggest it was the Romans who killed Jesus.
Well yeah, they did the deed. But that's like saying that the soldier in the field is responsible for ethnic cleansing, or "I didn't kill anyone, it was the gun".

The Romans were the weapon manipulated into taking the guy down, by some bloody clever people at that. Pilate might well have been a killer (hell he had to be one of those to be a Roman governer in the first place), but here he had his back firmly to the wall. If he executed Jesus, he would face a potential revolt from Jesus' followers, if he didn't, then a revolt from Jesus' accusers. Hence the "washing of hands" - I'll take this guy out, but on your own heads be it.

Of course the really heretical thought is "did God arrange it all to happen". I have a theory that Jesus was a man, just an ordinary guy, chosen from humanity to show that there is a spark of worth in our race - that a human was capable of sacrificing himself to "save" all the others. Hence "why have thou forsaken me?" at the last minute, Jesus had to decide to let himself die, free will baby.

Now, 2000 years later, we find ourselves in a situation where we are back at a similar place (he says trying to bring this back to spirituality and failing). We are constantly at war with each other. We hate each other for having beliefs different to our own, or for looking different to how we do, or "heaven forbid" falling in love with people who we wouldn't, corrupt empires and regimes rise and fall... I wonder if we'll pass the test this time.

[XWOLFX]

So many time's I've seen reference in general converstation that only pagan like religions reconize therians. This may be true as a whole in religion, but what about select people? I've known many christians to be quite close and open about the wild side they call therian. I've also met Catholic's that believe in the healing power of the earth around them.

So how does does your therian relate to your spirituality? I'm really curious on how others view therianthropy outside a pagan based occult.

I'm by family inheritance and everything Catholic, but I've changed my beliefs like many do, I actually believe in reincarnation until a point then heaven (or whatever you want to call it). I believe in therians and spirits and stuff like that. I believe in chi power around us. I believe there is a god (whether it is an actual entity or power or energy I have no idea, and I have no reason to try to figure it out), but i believe that god doesn't interfere or manipulate with the world around us (except once in a while, ex. the actual statue that cries blood on certain holidays, the one that has yet to be proven false like some have). Lots of people bend their beliefs

[Hellcat]

I'm by family inheritance and everything Catholic, but I've changed my beliefs like many do, I actually believe in reincarnation until a point then heaven (or whatever you want to call it). I believe in therians and spirits and stuff like that. I believe in chi power around us. I believe there is a god (whether it is an actual entity or power or energy I have no idea, and I have no reason to try to figure it out), but i believe that god doesn't interfere or manipulate with the world around us (except once in a while, ex. the actual statue that cries blood on certain holidays, the one that has yet to be proven false like some have). Lots of people bend their beliefs

hmmm aparently (but I don't know the truth behind it) the bit in the bible where it says "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" originally said "thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live". Unfortunately King James needed to justify the witch hunts so he adapted the bible to serve the purpose...

I don't have any further information on this so it might just be a wicked rumour :) but if thats the case, how many other areas have the bible have been adapted or twisted for political purposes?