Fact vs. Fiction

[LV426]

I have done extensive book research on various supernatural or paranormal creatures. This ranges from Werewolves to vampires, gargoyles, dragons, zombies, fae, as well as other creatures. I have noticed that the myths, legends, and folktales that surround these creature depict them in a very different light than what people are used to believing. In fact it seems to me that people are more inclined to believe purely fictional portrayals as is found in books, movies, and games, rather then formulate their concepts with less fictional data. Of course myths and legends are fiction but usually have a basis in fact somewhere. Storytellers were widespread and entertainment of people was their main intention but most of them based their stories on their experiances or the experiances of those they encountered in their travels.

I am more inclined to believe historical documentations of such creatures as well as myths, legends and folktales fo such entities, rather than those presented by the entertainment communities of today.


I just find it odd that people would rather believe in Hollywood's version of these creatures and entities rather than sift through the stories of old for a more accurate presentation of said creatures.

[blueeyes]

Tis easier to watch a movie than read latin. It's all a matter of time, you see. That, and most people like lies over truth; they can sound better.

[purinpuff]

That, and it's hard to find mythology.

[LV426]

Tis easier to watch a movie than read latin. It's all a matter of time, you see. That, and most people like lies over truth; they can sound better.
One does not need to read latin to do research. My latin is not all that great, I wouldn't even want to contemplate researching volumes of latin. I have found a plethora of information in plain english. Most volumes these days have an english translation which I am grateful for.

I also don't see movies, books, and games as being lies, it is just fantasy. Perhaps the fantasy is more glorfied than some of the more accurate portrayals but in the case of dragons I find the fiction to be lacking in dimension.

[purinpuff]

Also, the little werewolf mythology I've encountered had to do with deals with the devil... an' I don't like that....

[punisher]

I have the same problems Lycan. I don't think reading is all that hard, and the main books are very easy to get. If you are an English speaker, you have at your easy disposal, all the major werewolf occult texts. Try your local library. If you can't find it there, try inter-library loan. Or you could try any one of a number great used book finders on the net. I don't mind the average movie watcher, but when you are professing to be an expert, or even just an informed amatuer, you had better have read the basic research. There are people who have went before you who can help guide the way and point you in the right direction. If you want the actual knowledge though, you will have to do some actual work yourself. Nobody is going to force-feed you the info you want. Everyone's opinion is not the same. I will put much more credence in someone's opinion if they have studied the topic in an acedemic manner. I put little credence in the spoutings of those sitting on their couch (or in front of their computers) pontificating on a subject.

[LV426]

I can't say I am an expert however I do deem myself well read on the various topics, some more than others. Werewolves are my main focus but the other creatures of the night are also in the same boat as werewolves. There really is little difficulty finding information on these topics especially now that libraries have begun compiling their entire book stacks into a nice little search engine. You can put the word werewolf into their database and come up with every book that even mentions a shapeshifter.

It just seems to me that those who profess such knowledge of werewolves have in fact very little knowledge whatsoever, and that knowledge consists of what has been presented in movies, books, and games. Now true the people sitting in front of their computers are more than likely not experts, but it seems to me that if you profess such an attraction for something you would want to know as much as possible about the subject. I suppose some of this lack of knowledge can be contributed to laziness.

I do not mind various individuals sharing their information or asking for more information but I do resent having to sift through people's intrepretations of werewolves and other creatures when it is based purely upon a movie, a book, or a game. I cite the recent postings on werewolves vs. vampires as an excellent example of such an indiscretion.

I am not certain that punisher knows more than I or that I know more than punisher but at least he and I seem to have done some of our homework. I do love a good discussion and would love nothing better than to discuss the interpretations of the findings that I and other have discovered in our quest for knowledge. I also have no problem sharing what I know as GarouX has found out. I have answered his questions with no reservations and would do so for any that show an interest in discovering more about werewolves.

I find it interesting that the fictional portrayals of werewolves has developed and diverged from the "true" accounts of the werewolf of old, and that many of the superstitions about werewolves have been disregarded. In fact the only thing that has really remained constant is the contact with silver being deadly or painful for a werewolf, and that the full moon can cause a werewolf to shift into his/her wolfly form. Although I must note that in not all accounts is the moon neccesary for the change.

I enjoy making comparisons with fiction and fact and noting the discrepencies which can be attributed to poetic license in some case, but what disturbs me is that in trying to convey actual myth and lore, many seem to interject their point of view based on movies, books, and especially games. I do admire White Wolf in some cases, they have created an interesting world of fantasy and entertainment, but it saddens me to think that the lore and myth of yor shall be replaced with the annals of fictional books based on a game.

[punisher]

I echo many of your same comments Lycan. I'm not the end-all expert on werewolves, but I am very well read and knowledgable in the field. I have been more than happy to share my findings and research with anyone who asks. I enjoy werewolves, I enjoy helping other enjoy the topic as well. This might be the teacher coming out. If I enjoy something, I am going to learn as much as I can about it, just as Lycan said. I also appreciate what White Wolf has done for the topic. They have made werewolves and vampires interesting for a new generation. Their writers are in many cases very knowledgable about the subject. They change what they need to for the sake of the story. One of the guys I know who has written many White Wolf books is Bob Weinberg. He has been in the writing game for a very long time, and has written a few non-fiction books in the genre. That doesn't mean you can take factual information from the fiction. Use the fiction as a starting off point to do the background research. I guarentee you will find interesting stuff in the historical accounts, some are even more interesting than the modern fiction.

[lycanox]

since the dark ages werewolves are believed to be evil

but lets take a closer look. :rolleyes:

if a captured werewolf tells about its life one thing mostly comes up is somekind of a pack where the wolf gets its transformation potion or hunts with. :D

but its mostly one werewolf that kills lifestock humans ed. then the killings stop and there never is a hunt to more werewolves aldo the village nows of its existence. :)

this shoud mean that there only is one evil werewolf in a pack ( if there is a evil werewolf in it) :)

there arent any accounts that the pack try's to safe the captured evil werewolf. this could mean that the pack agree's with the punishment. :)

conclusion

like witches werewolfes were respected by common people until they started to kill people. than even the pack starts to hunt down its evil member :rolleyes:

[LV426]

<<Looks at punisher>>



:rolleyes:

[punisher]

<<Looks at punisher>>



:rolleyes:

<Punisher sighs.>

[LV426]

I didn't set up a thread to bitch about it Dragoon, if you even half paid attention it was an observation that people seem to rely more on MOVIES, GAMES, and Fictional BOOKS, than they do on werewolf lore.


I left it open for discussion because certain people on this site actually study werewolf Lore and discount the theatrical portrayls of werewolves' existence as facts.

I wanted their views on the subject.

[blueeyes]

Better, LD. Now that is how a mature person should act.

[punisher]

Nowhere in any of my posts have I ever held the legends of Europe above those of other cultures. I have studied were-creatures in all cultures the world over, especially those of the Americas. Yes, these do hold more validity than chance choices made up by a gamer. An occult historian is not trying to discern the "fact" behind the werewolf. He/she is trying to understand those old legends. Cultural significance is important, how the legends morph with the meetings of cultures, etc. We look at what it is about those legends that have passed the test of time, and what elements of the legends were changed with it. We look at the historical facts that might explain what at the time was unexplainable. New musing and old legends are not the same. New myths are not based on old legends, but are passing themselves off as such. It would be like if you were on a forum about WWII and someone came on with a story about how they fought off the German's on Antarctica. Both the real stories and the make-believe one would have elements of historical fact. The Antarctica story only serves to muddy the real story though. This is much like the factual "werewolf" accounts of history. Most occult researchers are more interested in the actual facts of the matter. If it proves that Peter Stubbe was not really a werewolf, so be it. I do not think it is hard to define an expert on this subject. You can experts on voodoo, ghosts, the American Civil War, Einsteinian physics; the list is endless. An expert does not know everything, they do have enough of a base of knowledge about the topic to study any new, or new-found, case in light of those that have preceded it. Experts may disagree, that does not mean either is not an expert. Having that base of knowledge, you often DO know when someone is pulling a story out of their "hat". You will have read the books they use as source material. A very good example was Tobais, he borrowed very broadly. He was obviously well read, but someone just as well read would instantly realize how he was assembling his grab-bag fantasy world. I do not think it is too much to ask that there be a place for serious occult researchers on this site. "Lore & Mythology" is supposed to house such topics. I do not flame, or even contradict, newbies who come on posting about how they are really werewolves and such. That is not what I am interested in, so let them role-play to their heart's content if they so wish. What I don't want is for these people to then come and pass off their role-play as historical fact. It is not about newbie bashing, it is about stemming the tide of missinformation being spewed into the ether.

[lordragoon]

Okay. That explained it very well. Thank you for doing so and not being too upset. I'm sorry for posting in such an inflamatory manner. Again, I'm sorry, and I will clear my stupidity from this post.