Therianthropy vs. Therian Magic [Archive] - Werewolf.com Discussion Boards

FenrirTherion

08-06-2006, 02:01 PM

Greetings.I am new here.
The "what it is/isnt" thread was locked, so I come, with respect to all those here, with a slightly different perspective.

I am an active member of the Therian Temple, and I consider myself a Therian Magician.

The group/school of thought which I am apart of sees Therianthropy as follows:
(Can we all agree here on these general terms?)

Therianthropy is the general subject of the part-human/part-animal.
Depending on who you ask, they may consider it a "spriritual" topic, as in "channeling the spirit" of a certain Theriotype, but most consider it a metaphysical topic, and many who I have spoken to agree that much of the discussion concerning the topic in the past is somewhat metaphorical.
We use this definition:

Therian: A member of the contemporary subculture of therianthropy / therianism, which is based on a spiritual and/or psychological identification with animals.

Lycanthropy is a smaller subcategorization, just one form of Therianthropy which deals with Wolves/wolf-like nature specifically.

A Therian is not necessarily a "were-" wolf/cat, etc.,
but however, this is a state which can be "attained" through study, practice of certain rituals, and serious self-introspection.

Through certain types of "de-compression rituals",such as those found in the Therian Bible, a person who is truly a Therian CAN, if they choose to, experience the Mental shift, as well as the Physical shift. We call this "Therian Magic".

We would be defining "mental and physical shift" as follows:

M-Shift: "Mental shift", when a Therian thinks and acts like their Theriotype, yet they do not physically change.

P-Shift: "Physical shift", when a Therian thinks and acts like their Theriotype, accompanied by physical changes such as
enhanced strength, heightened senses, etc. This is NOT changing species into an actual Animal.

This would differ from "shapeshifting":
Shapeshifting: Shapeshifting is used to describe physiological shifting, where the body physically changes to that of the Theriotype.There are no verifiable documented cases of this.

Does this perespctive offend anyone?
Hopefully not, but I would like to know If I am being ignorant or insensitive to those here before me.
:o

Gilenea

08-07-2006, 06:11 PM

There's a Therian Bible? Since when did this become a religion, so to speak?

As it is commonly agreed upon by the members and administration of this board, I'd like to point out that any speculations and/or musings you may have on the topic of physical shifting probably won't be welcomed. Granted, there are a few members who might discuss this with you, but you've been warned.

As to my own opinion and interpretation (I'm sticking to the etymology of the words, folks), I'm going to cite the "popular" terms and definitions as a rebuttle.

Onward to your argument about shapeshifting versus physical shifting! Yay! You claim that physical shifting and shapeshifting are two different things and that therians are capable of physical shifting due to heightened senses, increased strength, etc. According to the community at large, a physical shift is the body's transformation into its theriotype, phenotype, spirit side, what have you. A physical shift is something all therians appear to strive towards. To most of the community shapeshifting and physical shifting are synonomous as far as I can tell. Thus the term "p-shifting" was coined to describe what therians would like to achieve. I've always been under the impression that a mental shift encompassed the heigtened senses and other attributes that therians will take on when they experience a shift. The physical shift/shapeshifting is the actual transformation.

And I'll have to disagree with you. Therianthropy and lycanthropy are two completely different things. If you want to get down to brass tax and forget the "slang" meaning for lycanthropy, the real definition is clinical insanity... But that's neither here nor there. Therians are people who are connected to an animal purely by emotional, mental, or spiritual ties, as you said. They are not capable of physically shifting (according to my personal definition of the word "physical shift," which was developed using the ENTIRE therian community). A therian who can morph into another form is not a therian. They are a physical shifter, which is a lycanthrope (Thank you, Underworld).

I'm sure I've rambled and repeated myself, but I hope you understand my stance on this.

Gil

MorganaFang

08-07-2006, 07:00 PM

I would have to agree with Gil on this one.

There is no way that lycanthropy is apart of therianthropy unless used in derivative. It was not until the White Wolf games and the Underworld movies that Lycanthropy has been attributed to another meaning for werewolf. Because in ancient greek it does mean "wolf man." However, it was initially a term for a mental disease.

In reality I disagree a lot with what you say and would love to review your reference for this since I cannot find anything of this Therianthrop Bible.

And please for the love of god, use more than wikipedia for your citing.

Gilenea

08-07-2006, 07:35 PM

I can't find anything on this so-called "bible." Or the Therian Temple, for that matter. I found something on www.wildideas.net/temple if you're interested. It sounds vaguely familiar to what he was talking about.

Gil

DarkHunter

08-14-2006, 11:52 PM

Found the link Gilly. http://theriantemple.com/

So I'm guessing Fenrir that you couldn't hook us up with a free copy of the Therian Bible. :D

I see the mention of the "Right Hand Path/Left Hand Path" dichotomy which seems to suggest some intellectual ties with Satanism. Also there's the Trapezoidal symbol.

I've been kicking the idea around of writing something about definitive about Therianthropy. Though I'll no doubt write it from the Satanic perspective. Still, I don't want to do something thats already done.

Then agian if its done badly, then it needs to be done well does it not?

Who knows. I have nothing against "Therian Magic" which seems just a ritualized expression of everyday Therianthropy. No real ritual is needed.

Something of course that could be useful, how long is the Therian Bible? How big of a book is it and what are the full topics that it explores?

Owlie

08-15-2006, 02:25 AM

I went to that website and began reading, I was getting into it. I felt that most of what they where saying, made allot of sense.

In fact I wanted to join this website so I could learn a bit more.

Then I saw this- To become a Member of the Therian Temple,
You must first Purchase the Therian Bible directly from Us.

They almost got me...! Those tricky bastards.

MorganaFang

08-15-2006, 02:53 AM

They almost got me...! Those tricky bastards.

Well actually a lot of "religious" web sources they work to make it sound appealing to their demographic so they will buy their product.

I was turned off by the mentioning of the bible in this thread and then the statement that animals are gods above man or some dilly dally. I'm more a balance and equals kinda gal and I take my spiritual sans a few people dictating how I should believe and worship :D

Gilenea

08-16-2006, 02:51 AM

This has all the great makings of a cult.

For the record.

Gil

MorganaFang

08-16-2006, 09:51 AM

This has all the great makings of a cult.

For the record.

Gil

True, the site and logo for site remind me a lot of Baphomet Worship site I visited a long time ago which was a cult idealistic "goth" kids being lead by few mentally challenged 30 year olds.

ThrasherCub

08-16-2006, 03:41 PM

While it does have the makings of a cult, it actually has a good point and makes some sense.

1. ANIMALS WERE THE FIRST GODS OF THE HUMANS.
Mostly true. Things like Fire and Wind were also Gods in the begining. But all were viewed as Gods because they had powers that humans did not.

Knowing the First Truth, we recognize that Humans revere(d) Animals both spiritually and symbolically,
because of the fact that Animals are more attuned to nature (a.k.a.:"God", "Gaia", etc.) than Humans are.
This also has a tendency to be true. Notice how many animals can sense a natural disaster coming whereas most adult humans cannot. Also, the usual line of spiritual progression of a society is Animism, Polytheism, (sometimes) Henotheism, Monotheism, Monism, and then many will actually go back to something along the lines of Animisim. All that changes is the ammount of understanding.

The hidden understanding that cannot be communicated to Non-Therian Humans is what we call: "The Knowledge".
Some people get it, some people don't. In fact, the Gita tells us more enlightened people not to pain the minds of those who are not so gifted, largely because there's not a damn thing they can do about it. They can set up so they can be closer to enlightenment in their next incarnation, but they're pretty much screwed for this one.
Strikingly simmilar, no?

Therians are Born, and not made.
I agree!

The carrying of the Knowledge may be sought out by Humans, but it can NEVER be attained.
I agree that they cannot carry the Knowledge.

This is a gap that cannot be bridged.
This I disagree with. The step before returning to Animism is Monism and Monism is the belief/understanding that we are all one thing. All non-Therian humans are, indeed, Therians too. It's just not manifest and it takes a great deal to understand this and even more to make use of this understanding.

Of course, while they wouldn't qualify as Therians at that point, they sure as hell don't qualify as "normal" humans. Or normal anything for that matter.

We must maintain a plant-based diet.
Nice concept! I can honestly respect that and the reasons behind it. It also makes a great deal of sense. Many cultures that frown upon Cannibalism do so because humans are the chosen of God, made in the image of God, etc. Well, so are animals. This rule is not nearly so random as it may look. Also, for some weird reason (I'll go find out if anyone is truely curious) a vegitarian diet is better for one's magickal powers than a meat-laden diet.

We must walk the Earth with Respect to it.
Again, this makese sense. Other religions that look upon humans as #1 have rules protecting humans. Since the Therian Church realizes that animals aren't below humans, they have laws protecting animals and the world around us both.

Abiding by the laws of your Residential Land should prevent most incidents of imprisonment.
If we are to maintain our Freedom, we cannot participate in the destruction of Freedom,
as this will imminently lead to the destruction of ALL Freedom, including our own.
I honestly do not understand why these were made into an actual laws for the Church. Quite possibly they make perfect sense but I cannot yet grasp it as I am new to this perspective.

Do not de-sensitize yourself through any form of harmful deadening, either mental or physical.
Much like the idea that one should take care of his or her body on the grounds that it is not only made in the likeness of God, but is also a temple to God.

The ranks appear to be taken (not in a bad way) from either the Golden Dawn or the O.T.O., which makes perfect sense considering who the fathers of modern Magick are. I also have a great deal of respect for the Oath of Therion, particularly that it states, "I recognize that should I break the Code, Nature will have its vengeance upon Me."

While it seems much more like a magicians order rather than an actual religion, it actually seems pretty cool.

While I do not agree with the book being refered to as a Bible (thereby giving the impression that it is a religion), I rather do like the mission and the philosophy I've seen thus far.

I think I'll buy the book, mostly because I can. I also think I'll show it to my mentor - see what he thinks.

DarkHunter

08-16-2006, 09:56 PM

Yeah I mean I'm not knocking the overall philosophy of the place (though I'm no Vegan). I'm just a little skeptical about religious orders that make you buy their books without giving you at least even a peak into it. I mean I got ahold of a copy of the Vampire Bible for free once and found it to be a hideously short ritual book, establishing a telepathic link. I mean all fine and well, but not my deal.

If I started a religion or order, I'd at least give a little more background on it. The information just seems horribly abrubt.

Not that I'm knocking either this or the Vampire Temple. I respect both ways of life and even agree on some points. I just would like to know a little bit more is all.

Then agian, I plan on writing my own codex about Werewolfism so I guess I'm just a big poop about it all. :cool:

deathjoker

08-18-2006, 01:57 PM

I looked at the site. Nothing to impressive.

To me, it sounds like a scam. A religion should be out in the public domain, the FREE public domain. Isn't freedom something that these guys preach.

Second, the whole plant based diet won't work for me, I'm a WOLF and CROW therian. One kills prey and the other takes whats left. Cannibalism isn't a good idea on any count, but animals each other to survive. thats nature.

every thing else i basically agree with....

Thoughts anyone?

DarkWolf

08-18-2006, 02:21 PM

To me, it sounds like a scam. A religion should be out in the public domain, the FREE public domain. Isn't freedom something that these guys preach.

Unfortunately you've just basically stated that most major religions like Catholicism and Christianity, Judaism, etc are all scams. No major religion on this planet is free - they all require donations, charity, 10% from earnings, or purchasing of special clothes and bibles and hats and whatever have you.

There's A LOT of money in religion - get a religious shop going and you can thrive into richdom from the gullible and clueless bible-hunting punters.

Commercialism, the new religion.

Anyway: a plant-based diet is pathetically stupid. Do Lions eat a plant-based diet? Nope. And if they did they'd be very unhealthy. They're carnivores and meat is best for them. We are omnivores and are healthiest with a diet that balances between meat and plant. Of course we have cultured alternatives but the easiest and healthiest option still remains the mix.

Therian or not - we're animals regardless. I'd rather be breaking their rule and healthy with tasty food than not quite as healthy and gagging on constant rabbit-food. Sod that.

Cannibalism isn't a good idea on any countWhy not? Many animals live solely on cannibalism and almost all species of carnivorous spiders are cannibals too. Besides even a therian is 100% human on a genetic level and because your genetics make up your necessary diet it is not cannibalism. Now if you were sucking out their souls and feasting the "spiritual energy" while a therian of the same animal then maybe that would be an ethereal form of cannibalism - but a pig therian feasting on pork isn't cannibalism because behind the terms it's still a human feasting on food humans eat. Therianthropy is a "connection" or "spiritual" thing and does not play any part on your genetic makeup.

ThrasherCub

08-20-2006, 02:01 AM

Anyway: a plant-based diet is pathetically stupid.
I think the idea is that we are born with the ability to survive and be rather healthy without the consumption of other animals, which easily lends to the idea that humans (or at least some of them) are intended to make a choice on the matter based upon our understanding. It works nicely with belief that of all the creatures we can be incarnated as, it is only through a human incarnation that we can reach enlightenment.

Again, while I'm not a huge fan of the practice, I can see where the idea is comming from and I approve of the sentiment behind it.

DarkWolf

08-20-2006, 07:21 PM

I think the idea is that we are born with the ability to survive and be rather healthy without the consumption of other animals, which easily lends to the idea that humans (or at least some of them) are intended to make a choice on the matter based upon our understanding. It works nicely with belief that of all the creatures we can be incarnated as, it is only through a human incarnation that we can reach enlightenment.

Again, while I'm not a huge fan of the practice, I can see where the idea is comming from and I approve of the sentiment behind it.
By that reasoning crows can be possible therians too. And mockingbirds. And some bears. And red foxes. And.... you get the point.

There are many, many, animals that are omnivorous too and able to make that choice. Unsurprisingly the consistent theme is a good ability to adapt to a wide variety of environments that can be full of either flesh or plant. Humans are no different. Omnivorous diets, like those of carnivorous and herbivorous ones, aids in our abilities to adapt to environments and their changes. As omnivores we have been able to adapt to a very wide range of environments and live off them - aiding our "dominance" (HA! Erm, anyway...) on the planet.

I think I prefer to trust that our omnivorous nature is more inclined to be like that of other animals rather than some "therianthropic" speciality or "enlightening" spirituality.

deathjoker

08-20-2006, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by DarkWolf
Why not? Many animals live solely on cannibalism and almost all species of carnivorous spiders are cannibals too. Besides even a therian is 100% human on a genetic level and because your genetics make up your necessary diet it is not cannibalism. Now if you were sucking out their souls and feasting the "spiritual energy" while a therian of the same animal then maybe that would be an ethereal form of cannibalism - but a pig therian feasting on pork isn't cannibalism because behind the terms it's still a human feasting on food humans eat. Therianthropy is a "connection" or "spiritual" thing and does not play any part on your genetic makeup.

Um, ok DarkWolf.

I'm simply referring to the fact humans don't usually eat each other. I know that there are situations in which it is a viable food source, but you don't hear about people eating each other because McDonalds was out of fries. And the genetics thing was from left field. I'm a wolf/crow therian, but I don't eat wolf or crow meat... Mainly because I can't catch a wolf and crows fly to damn fast. Most therians don't eat their own "kind" because you most of those animals are not a viable food source. And as far as the 100% human part is concerned... UH DUH!

Originally posted by DarkWolf
Unfortunately you've just basically stated that most major religions like Catholicism and Christianity, Judaism, etc are all scams. No major religion on this planet is free - they all require donations, charity, 10% from earnings, or purchasing of special clothes and bibles and hats and whatever have you.

And yes, I am calling out every single religion on the planet, mainly because I don't care. I'll handle the afterlife when I get there. My belief is that I'm a therian and that is good enough for me.

Sorry if I singled you out, but I figured I'd go ahead and return the view points.

ThrasherCub

08-21-2006, 01:41 AM

There are many, many, animals that are omnivorous too and able to make that choice.
They don't (likely) have the level of comprehension and understanding of morals that humans do. And even if they do, they're still not humans and for some reason it is only through human incarnation that one can reach enlightenment (which is the dumbest thing I'd ever heard until I studied more heavily into the Qabalah).

I think I prefer to trust that our omnivorous nature is more inclined to be like that of other animals rather than some "therianthropic" speciality or "enlightening" spirituality.
Honestly, so do I. I'm just trying to understand and explain a spiritual view we haven't had much experience with.

DarkHunter

08-21-2006, 11:30 PM

They don't (likely) have the level of comprehension and understanding of morals that humans do. And even if they do, they're still not humans and for some reason it is only through human incarnation that one can reach enlightenment (which is the dumbest thing I'd ever heard until I studied more heavily into the Qabalah).

Honestly, so do I. I'm just trying to understand and explain a spiritual view we haven't had much experience with.

The Qabalah is a human construct and will no doubt glorify the human being. Morals area also human constructs. Sure animals won't comprehend them because they don't apply to animals. Why should they care? If an animal was raised to human level intelligence, I doubt they would even bother with our kind of morals.

I think DarkWolf rules out on the food thing. Really. We are omnivorous creatures. Connections with animals aside, we are still human animals.

deathjoker

08-22-2006, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by DarkHunter
I think DarkWolf rules out on the food thing. Really. We are omnivorous creatures. Connections with animals aside, we are still human animals.

No doubt. But I think the real question at hand isn't if we are human, but if these guys are going to make therianthropy as a whole look like a bunch of geeks who can't tell the difference between fanasty and an actual belief system.

My only thing about these "therian magicians" is that it looks like a bunch of depressed teenagers got togather and thought "oh, how can we make this more 'goth'."

Thoughts?

DarkWolf

08-23-2006, 02:34 PM

My only thing about these "therian magicians" is that it looks like a bunch of depressed teenagers got togather and thought "oh, how can we make this more 'goth'."I almost spat out my dinner at that. Nice, one. :D

DarkHunter

08-23-2006, 06:16 PM

Unfortunately, it looks like it.

I don't think they'll make that big of a fuss though. I mean, really. This looks like one of those twenty or thirty member organizations. One hundred at the most.

Breathe easy.

Xenon Greyfire

08-25-2006, 09:19 AM

Whichever path leads you to contentedness, dude.
Also, the only morals I have in place I've put there because they are fair. And they're not rigid. They aren't there as a religious requirement or a human law. I put them there to be considerate to other people.

I'm also trying to think of some laws to protect animals, since I'm much more of an animal lover then a person lover. I considered becoming a vegetarian, but hell - I don't think I could survive without some form of meaty protein. :p

sno raven

08-29-2006, 06:24 PM

Gilenea

08-31-2006, 04:43 PM

DarkHunter

08-31-2006, 09:03 PM

Any "religion" that says "You cannot achieve this high position without first purchasing our holiest of Holy Texts for the oh-so reasonable price of $20" is most likely a cult or a scam.

"True" religion isn't about ascending to any certain level after you pay your dues. It's about personal comfort and whatever makes you happy.

The whole point is, this place is ridiculous. If you want to "level up," you've gotta pay to do it. Oh noes.

Gil

Well Gilly, in all fairness, many organizations charge some sort of fee (or tithe) to join. I mean even a nonprofit organization needs cash to run.

Now things like $cientology on the other hand....

Still, why not offer free copies of the Bible?

MorganaFang

09-01-2006, 09:59 PM

Still, why not offer free copies of the Bible?

Oh... so those one's in hotels are not free to take?

DarkHunter

09-02-2006, 08:23 PM

Oh... so those one's in hotels are not free to take?

Not THAT Bible. I'm not interested in that one. I can't break down the rituals of that one because it doesn't contain rituals that potentially interest me. Its rather boring.

FenrirTherion

09-25-2006, 03:49 AM

All of the issues (meat consumption, religion or not, book price, etc) are addressed in the Therian temple FAQ page on the website, which has been recently updated.

:D

FenrirTherion

09-25-2006, 04:05 AM

You know, this 'Therian Temple' has been brought up on a few other forums as well. I just have a bit of a problem with is as if it scratches off any reality to what I've always known as therianthropy to be. Almost like a unseen made marks onto anyone truely therian...

Everyone has the right to their own views / beliefs not matter how "weird" you or anyone else may think they are.

I don't think therianthropy should be put into a religion catagory at all,
It isnt being put into that category.
Our form of Therian Magic MAY be considered by SOME to be a religion, but not by most.

and especially not one what would have it seem like all you could do is some rituals and spells and you can be a therianthrope just like that. Or how if you buy this bible and study therianthropy, you will become one.
We make it VERY clear on our site and in our book that one CANNOT "become" therian..you either are or aren't.

I believe therianthropy is a personal spiritual and mental sense, and can be different on an individual basis, but not to go so far as to make a religion of it. I don't know, IMHO... Its just not right.

See above and read the FAQ page at theriantemple.com
Therian Magic is NOT the same thing as Therianthropy, as is suggested in the very TITLE of this thread.
No one is saying it is.
And niether is a "religion" in most senses of the word.

If anything, at the very least - this 'temple' would be better off as totemists then practicing 'therian magic', which I still don't understand...

If you dont understand, ask someone, don't assume.
Also-we don't believe in "Totems", so that is not part of our practice.
And who are you to decide who is better off* doing what?

especially since the webmaster/mistress contradicts themselves
many times
Examples please?

and seems very cultlike,

Is anything you don't understand a "cult"?

and as if they have not taken into any regard for therianthropy as for information or research or history, including forums or essays on real therianthropy websites... ?

Define "real" websites?!?
All of those sites are just different people's opinions.

There is not even yet scientific proof of exactly what "therians" really are, and none of these people are experts at anything.

More are simply tired 40+ year old people with spiritual high hopes, who cannot fully break away from Christianity, and most often, fill their message boards with throngs of underage posters (esp. females) and act out some sick patriarchal role with them, as if they are their "online parents" or something.
They then act as if they are "protecting" these children from "evil cults" like the Therian Temple, which they are not old enough to join anyway.
Or else you have the other variety of 16-20 year old girls who fill their forums with submissive 30+ year old men who kiss their uninformed asses in desperate hopes of a online chat.

Just because someone has a popular forum does not give them exclusive moral judgement rights on everything related to a concept.

Don't be a fascist.

I don't see anything. It seems like they said, "Okay we're going to make it so everyone is able to feel like a therianthrope."
I don't know guys, I've got bad vibes.
See above--It says on the site that no one can "become" therian, no matter how much money they spend.
Please read our site before disparaging our idealogies. :cool:

DarkWolf

09-25-2006, 09:55 AM

Don't be a fascist.Nothing in what they said was relative to facism in any way so please avoid using this term just because you have a differing opinion.

Gilenea

09-25-2006, 11:33 AM

Don't be a fascist.

Don't be a stereotyper...

There is not even yet scientific proof of exactly what "therians" really are, and none of these people are experts at anything.

More are simply tired 40+ year old people with spiritual high hopes, who cannot fully break away from Christianity, and most often, fill their message boards with throngs of underage posters (esp. females) and act out some sick patriarchal role with them, as if they are their "online parents" or something.
They then act as if they are "protecting" these children from "evil cults" like the Therian Temple, which they are not old enough to join anyway.
Or else you have the other variety of 16-20 year old girls who fill their forums with submissive 30+ year old men who kiss their uninformed asses in desperate hopes of a online chat.

And are you saying that most people are too ignorant to choose another spiritual path, therefore they blindly blunder into therianthropy in hopes of picking up an emotional sixteen year old were-wallaby?

Or... That said sixteen year old were-wallaby is too insecure with herself to cope with offline life, so she must throw her weight around online in hopes of finding a 40+ man who is dissatisfied with his marriage and wants a little break from his reality?

Is THAT what you are saying?

Gil

DarkHunter

09-25-2006, 08:35 PM

Misunderstanding is fun.

Sno Raven, Fenrir seems to be right at most of your arguments. Their method of exploring therianthropy is the religion. Not Therianthropy itself.

Fenrir, your opinion of online forums are seemingly just as low as people's opinions of the Therian Temple. Though I do respect your beliefs (though I might question them as I do EVERYBODY'S beliefs including my own), I can hardly respect the implied insult against Werewolf.com which seems pretty decent (most of the time anyway).

The FAQ didn't seem to cover all my questions. If I recall, a couple organizations put their Bible up online for free for awhile in order to attract interest and later charged for admittance into the temple itself. But hey if you don't want to, thats your thing. Just a suggestion.

sno raven

10-02-2006, 10:24 PM

Well, my post was a personal rant. ^_^ But I'll certain try to answer some of these questions.

Is anything you don't understand a "cult"?

No. Anything that leads you into a path of 'you must give us money in order to learn our secrets' and that lead many a follower in, is a cult. The catholic church is a cult. Mormons are a cult. Scientologists are definately a cult. All will give you a hard time if you don't pay up front.

If you dont understand, ask someone, don't assume.
Also-we don't believe in "Totems", so that is not part of our practice.
And who are you to decide who is better off* doing what?

Better off was a bad way to put it. What I meant was, how does this differ than animal shamanism? Just to have 'therian' in the word? I realise therianthrope is actually an anthropologist term as well, relating to animal 'animal-human' beings depicted on cave writings and aboriginal or native peoples folklore and rituals.

Examples please?

Either they contridict themselves or conciously, unconciously, or subconciously make it very confusing.

So, therian magicians are not therians. But they attain the sense of an animal being through the magic. Then why say that you are part animal and part human and when the animal portion is only the illusion to the magic? Is the therian temple for therians only, or when a 'mundane' comes along wanting to further in their magick studies, wants to learn about therian magick and then feels the animal(s) inside them, interact with, and so on... are they now part-animal, part-human? have they now 'become' in part, a therian? This is what is thrown back and forth.

So are you or the owners of the therian temple really therians? or are they therian magicians? I don't think this is clear enough from the website.. and that is what I'm trying to get at.

Alittle friendly note..from a designer's point of view - red type on black, is not very fun. -_-; Reverse type is right up there.

DL Lycan

10-03-2006, 08:00 AM

Everyone should use dictionary.com, It's such a wonderful site.

cult /kʌlt/ Pronunciation Key -[kuhlt]

1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
–adjective
9. of or pertaining to a cult.
10. of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie.

I believe the definition being expressed in this conversation would be number 6, Which I've so kindly highlighted for you.

deathjoker

10-03-2006, 01:47 PM

Gilenea

10-05-2006, 09:32 AM

Werelist peeps know their bid'nizz. :p

Gil

jadecoyote

10-05-2006, 09:37 AM

william_wraithe

10-10-2006, 07:09 PM

I am a therian (this being a recent thing to call myself,before I called it spiritality) I am also part native american. My opinion on all of this is that you don't need a bible or whatever to find spiritality. I believe that everything you need can be found within yourslef and nowhere else. Anywhere else that is trying to sell you something claiming that they know the secrets is a sham in itself. You may disagree, but thats my thoughts.

Hmmm, somtimes people don't want to pay for information because they are cheap and think they deserve everything for free. It is in my opinion, that we pay for knowledge whatever the cost is .. whether it be monetary untis or a spiritual price, in the end we all pay a price for something we want.

Makes me wonder what kind of scam artist that DOS For Dummies author was ... he wouldn't share his secrets to programming without me buying his book.

Gilenea

10-11-2006, 12:20 AM

Hmmm, somtimes people don't want to pay for information because they are cheap and think they deserve everything for free. It is in my opinion, that we pay for knowledge whatever the cost is .. whether it be monetary untis or a spiritual price, in the end we all pay a price for something we want.

If that's the case, make sure you send me the receipt when you cart your children off to private school to the tune of a college tuition or so. Hey, you have to pay for everything, right?

Gil

FenrirTherion

10-12-2006, 03:08 PM

Well, my post was a personal rant. ^_^ But I'll certain try to answer some of these questions.

No. Anything that leads you into a path of 'you must give us money in order to learn our secrets' and that lead many a follower in, is a cult. The catholic church is a cult. Mormons are a cult. Scientologists are definately a cult. All will give you a hard time if you don't pay up front.

Printing books is not free, dear. We wish the press would make them for free, too, but that is unrealistic. Plus, why woul dwe want memebers who arent even interested/dedicated enough to spend $20 on it?

Better off was a bad way to put it. What I meant was, how does this differ than animal shamanism? Just to have 'therian' in the word? I realise therianthrope is actually an anthropologist term as well, relating to animal 'animal-human' beings depicted on cave writings and aboriginal or native peoples folklore and rituals.

It differs in that "shaman" has a "spiritual" connotation. We do not promote what we cannot prove even exists. Our principles/rituals are a form of decompression and physical conditioning that has shown itself to be effective for their purposes for our orginal circle of emmbers, the Ordo vir Bestia. In short, we don't nessecarily believe in "shamans" as a concept, thus we are not practicing "shamanism"

Either they contridict themselves or conciously, unconciously, or subconciously make it very confusing.
What contradiction?
Its only confusing if you approach it with an already made-up minset about what YOU believe Therians should / shouldn't be. If you keep an open mind, almost anything can make sense, when you look at it for what it is.

So, therian magicians are not therians.

WRONG. Please READ the FAQ not just look at it...
Its says "Not ALL Therians are Therian MAgicians." Where do you get that this means Therian Magicians are not Therians?

But they attain the sense of an animal being through the magic.

WRONG again. I really doubt that you read our page very carefully.It says clearly that Therians are Born, not Made.

Then why say that you are part animal and part human and when the animal portion is only the illusion to the magic?

See my reply above. And READ the FAQ please.

Is the therian temple for therians only, or when a 'mundane' comes along wanting to further in their magick studies, wants to learn about therian magick and then feels the animal(s) inside them, interact with, and so on... are they now part-animal, part-human? have they now 'become' in part, a therian? This is what is thrown back and forth.

This wacky concept is being "thrown back and forth" only by yourself. Not us. Our beliefs are CLEARLY stated on the site.

So are you or the owners of the therian temple really therians? or are they therian magicians? I don't think this is clear enough from the website.. and that is what I'm trying to get at.

If you would have Read it, you would not be asking me these questions. We are Therians who practice Therian magic, thus being Therian Magicians. VERY clear is the statement that "Therians are born not Made" in the FAQ. Five word sentence, very simple if you actually read it.

Alittle friendly note..from a designer's point of view - red type on black, is not very fun. -_-; Reverse type is right up
there.
Our website is not meant to be "fun" its meant to be informational about our Temple. And, frankly, why should I take the advice of a so-called "designer" who can't even take the few minutes to fully read an FAQ page before attacking the ideas presented on a site.

NOTE: In th earlier post about the "other therian" sites,I was not referring to Werewolf.com or the people on this board, I am specifically speaking about certain sites which have gone out of their way to publicly attack the Therian Temple, without even giving us posting rights to defend ourselves, including one where the leader even admits to being a Psychic Vampire!!.

FenrirTherion

10-12-2006, 03:11 PM

You know, this is a pretty interesting topic.

I'm a member of other Therianthropy website, werelist.com, and some other guy posted with all the same stuff. The funny thing is, everyone on that website shot this "magician" down faster than Houdini could do a trick.

Actually, it is an almost expact relica of this thread... With all the personal attacks included. I nearly cheered when I read it.

On werelist:
Do you really think the werelist Admin should be talking to all those 15-16 year olds when he runs a site with adult content?

See: http://coyoteoldone.com/

Seems more dangerous than anything the Therian Temple could possibly do-you have to be 18 to join our group.
And we don't link to porn.

ulfheadnar

10-12-2006, 08:28 PM

On werelist:
Do you really think the werelist Admin should be talking to all those 15-16 year olds when he runs a site with adult content?

See: http://coyoteoldone.com/

Seems more dangerous than anything the Therian Temple could possibly do-you have to be 18 to join our group.
And we don't link to porn.

Actually, you have to be 18 to log into the adult sections. And as with most of the therian sites, there is a mix of younger and older members.

So what the H is all this about a temple of therians anyway? Why in the world would someone want to be part of a secretive "club" of therians? Can therian magic actually help you to physically shift? If not, what's the difference between this and the "Temple of the Vampire"? If it's all about mental shifting and something that is usually called attributes shifting, why does magic have to be involved at all? To make it more consistent? This seems like so much mental masturbation.

DL Lycan

10-13-2006, 11:12 AM

Actually, you have to be 18 to log into the adult sections. And as with most of the therian sites, there is a mix of younger and older members.

So what the H is all this about a temple of therians anyway? Why in the world would someone want to be part of a secretive "club" of therians? Can therian magic actually help you to physically shift? If not, what's the difference between this and the "Temple of the Vampire"? If it's all about mental shifting and something that is usually called attributes shifting, why does magic have to be involved at all? To make it more consistent? This seems like so much mental masturbation.

I think the best way it was put was "How can we make this more goth?"

sno raven

10-24-2006, 04:32 PM

including one where the leader even admits to being a Psychic Vampire!!.

Okay. Whats wrong with psychic vampires, now?

Our website is not meant to be "fun" its meant to be informational about our Temple. And, frankly, why should I take the advice of a so-called "designer" who can't even take the few minutes to fully read an FAQ page before attacking the ideas presented on a site.

Design isn't about content. Its about layout and how viewers will react to it. Making something hard to read isn't the greatest way to keep people reading.

deathjoker

10-25-2006, 10:59 AM

Original Posted by FenrirTherion
On werelist:
Do you really think the werelist Admin should be talking to all those 15-16 year olds when he runs a site with adult content?

See: http://coyoteoldone.com/

Seems more dangerous than anything the Therian Temple could possibly do-you have to be 18 to join our group.
And we don't link to porn.

Firstly, and i'm glad Ulfheadnar stated it. You do have to be 18 to access that part of the site, but when has having a link to porn ever affected someones views on religion?

Originally Posted by FenrirTherion
NOTE: In th earlier post about the "other therian" sites,I was not referring to Werewolf.com or the people on this board, I am specifically speaking about certain sites which have gone out of their way to publicly attack the Therian Temple, without even giving us posting rights to defend ourselves, including one where the leader even admits to being a Psychic Vampire!!.

Secondly, give a list of sites that out-right "attack" your "Therian Temple". I would like to see these sites if any do exist... Not to mention, if you believe so deeply in what your saying, then who cares what we have to say? If your really such a "follower" of "Therian Magic" as you say you are, then just give up this battle on the thread, let it die, and don't post anymore about it if you don't want people picking your "religion" apart.

Seriously, put yourself in the shoes of a skeptic, and look at what your saying. If you can look at both sides of the arguement and decide for yourself whether we're right or wrong, or vise-versa, then you can choose to either accept it or get over it.

Also, for future reference, if you want to seem even the slightest bit on the sane side of thinking, just explain yourself and let what come come... It will save alot of time.

Thoughts anyone?