Where did the Werewolf vs. Vampire thing come from?

[thelupineyoulove]

Where did all this thing about werewolves and vampires fighting? I never found it in any of the 'classic' legends(i.e. King John and Old England), so where did it come from? Was it the 'Underworld' film series?
If anyone has any information, please let me know.

[MorganaFang]

Mostly Whitewolf's Vampire and Werewolf rpgs

[thelupineyoulove]

Who is Whitewolf?

[Morgrim]

Werewolves and vampires were connected in many of the eastern european legends, where I seem to recall the word for a particular demon refered to both. In some translations, Dracula is said to take the form of a hound 'like someone had infused a demon into a great black wolf' (quoting from memory there). Werewolves had sold their soul, and thus denied heaven when they died- but if Satan thought they had not caused enough destruction they would arise as vampires until their second death. However, these myths tend to support the idea that werewolves and vampires were allies, not enemies.

I've seen the idea of them being opposed in a few books that came out before Underworld, but I have no idea how much influence the White Wolf game had on them or whether they were published first. Pretty much all I know of the White Wolf series is that one of the packs is called the Blood Talons and they have about 5 forms. I'll leave that to one of the others.

[Dark Fang]

I've heard a few werewolves who were similiar to vampires. I'm guessing that the book meant physically but I'm not sure. I don't see how you could say that a werewolf was vampirish but that's what quite a few books say about it. I haven't seen any stories/legends/myths about vampires and werewolves co-existing together.

[Pickle Tickler]

Pretty much all I know of the White Wolf series is that one of the packs is called the Blood Talons and they have about 5 forms. I'll leave that to one of the others.
Any question's about WW's werewolf RPG, just ask me. I can actually quote from that book.

And I didn't really see any opposition between vampires and werewolves in there, other than the fact that all the tribes of werewolves distrust and somewhat dislike vampires to a degree, but not outwardly hate or oppose them.

In that storyline anyway.

[Hoplite]

well..i saw this concept first time on underworld, b4 that i never knew they had a relation :confused:

[Buddha Monkey]

Ok, here we go, White Wolf Werewolf the Apocolypse Revised genre condensed(aka not the crap they have out now).

Garou (from the French term Loup Garou) hate vampires. They believe them to be servents of the Wyrm/Weaver. The Wyrm once was the spirit of death, and was curropted by the Weaver (the spirit of Stasis) because the Weaver couldn't stand the Wyrm destroying her "creations".

Meanwhile, the Wyld was just......choatic.


Yay for the guy that runs a W:TA game. Oh, and by the way, the new system is know as What the Fuck, as we still can't figure out what White Wolf was thinking in making it.

More on subject. Dracula vs the Wolf Man, I think was still Black and White, had the two trading blows. A few other Black and White horror movies have the same. The thought has always been there, but for differnt reasons.

And, Underworld didn't help. And I hate seeing mention of that movie on these boards......grrrr... ..the "lycans".....grrrrr

[Moroni_Aenek]

I suppose it is because they are the two most evil and/or well-known monsters in the world. Nearly every culture has had some variation of both the Vampire and the Werewolf (or bear, bird, etc.), as well as being some of the first "monsters". It simply makes sense to have them fight each other.

[jzwoolf530]

Those are the two main "magical" creatures that are still famous. I'm sure they're plenty on both sides to start a war if we wanted to fight.

[Layira Aura]

You know, it probably has to do with the fact that every animal needs a predator. Whether to keep population down or whatever, everything has something that fights something else, so, the vampire is the werewolf's predator or vice versa. If you really think about it, you'll my point.

Some ex: Big fish eat little fish, bigger fish eat big fish, shark eat big fish, human eat shark... worm eat dirt, bird eat worm, cat eat bird, dog eat cat...

You see, everything has something trying to kill it off, so naturally it fights back, thus starting generation long wars and probably where the whole thing originated from.

[Okami no hi]

Um, hey. Sorry to bother you poeple, but I have never replied to a thread before and if I mess up, sorry. I am Okami no hi, and I was wondering if this will be considered a p- shifting thread. I have read alot of threads on this site through and through, and I know that this is very new yet. So far it is about Lycia vs. Lamia, but I am unsure as to where it will go. Will it stay as Lycia vs. Lamia, or move on to wether p- shifters exist? Please let me know so I will know what topics to stick to. I am also unsure how to put a quote of my own in. Do I have to type it every time? Please let me know if you can guys/girls.Thank you all alot.

[LV426]

P-shifting is located in the therianthropy section but seeing as how it is impossible to acheive it is not widely discussed.

[Okami no hi]

Actually, I have been reading these forums for a year and a half, and it seems to me they are widely discussed here.
But thanks for telling me were to go. Hopefully the threads are going. I had something I had wanted to share. Not quite like what others have posted in the threads you've been involved in.
Just thoughts and things I've seen.Thank you very much for your help and, none of you may know it, but you and the others from the older threads have really helped me through some rough times in the past year. I really apretiate that. Oh, I am a woman just in case someone reads this thread and ends up saying like, what happened to that guy Okami no hi? Thanks, bye.

[DarkWolf]

Due to it being a pointless discussion that ends up an argument P-Shifting topics were no longer allowed in the Therianthropy & Spirituality forum. The new mods, Lord Anubis and Gilenea, have both enforced such a rule so it still stands. P-Shifting topics in that forum will be moved or, more likely, deleted.

[chriz]

well..i saw this concept first time on underworld, b4 that i never knew they had a relation :confused:

White Wolf actually sued the makers of Underworld. I believe they lost, as you can't copyright the basic idea of werewolves vs. vampires. But I can understand WW's frustration -- Underworld plays out like a movie adaptation of the game.

[LV426]

Actually I thought Underworld was a particularly hideous portrayal of vamps and werewolves and White Wolf should have just laughed and told them they suck ass.

[chriz]

Actually I thought Underworld was a particularly hideous portrayal of vamps and werewolves and White Wolf should have just laughed and told them they suck ass.

The problem is, now if WW backs a movie based on their game, people will say they ripped off Underworld.

Warhammer Online is having the same issue, regarding World of Warcraft.

[Ultimate Carnage]

Vampires vs. werewolf’s probably first started from a couple of friends getting together and talking about how cool it would be to see two of the most feared and well known mythical creatures fighting in an all or nothing battle to the death which is how Capcom vs. Marvel, Alien vs. Predator, and even the age old man vs. machine originally started. But with such influential opponents in the fight it probably has some historic bases to it as well. This is just a theory I’m not exactly sure this is just what I think first started the whole phenomenon.

[fire_kitsune44]

Yea vamps and werewolves fight each other, so doenst everything else. I mean look at godzilla he fought w/e the hell came at him. People like to see things fight each other and they like to fight themselves but it doenst mean that vampires and werewolves hate each other and want to destory the other. Werewolves and vampires can both friends and foes, just like the rest of us.

As for Underworld...meh that movie was that good anyway and they put more discrimination/hate in this world.

[DarkWolf]

As for Underworld...meh that movie was that good anyway and they put more discrimination/hate in this world.
Uh, HOW? It's a fictional movie it should not inspire hate or discrimination of any kind whatsoever. If Underworld or any other fictional movie about fictional events and fictional creatures inspires such things in people then those people need a reality check and to grow the hell up.

[MorganaFang]

As for Underworld...meh that movie was that good anyway and they put more discrimination/hate in this world.

Uhhhh... Underworld only instigated hatred by ripping off Whitewolf's rp's royally. Even so, I feel more people have a sense of reality and fiction not to be negative.

[shifterfox]

Hi.
Maybe it's from old German legends that made werewolves out to be the unwilling pets and servants of vampires. Maybe some dude came up with the idea that they revolted....

[deathjoker]

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with Shifterfox.

I can't remember where, but I have heard outside the Underworld movie that werewolves were "hell-hounds" created to guard the crypts of vampires as they sleep... However, the revolt would make much sense they could wait until day break thenwipe the vampires out in one swoop.

But, eh. Fiction is fiction, so I guess anything could happen.

[J.L.R.]

Actually you will find it hard pressed to find any REAL mythology pitting the two against one another. The truth of the matter is, werewolf and vampire lore in many places, stems from the same legends or the alike. Many of them intertwine. If I remember correctly there was a Hungarian belief that a werewolf became a vampire when he or she died. There are hundreds of legends concerning the two, but none of them really pit each other against one another. In ancient lore, both were seen as parasites, feeding off the terrified masses, and were taught thus.

The inicial pitting of the two against each other is mostly if not all Hollywood fiction. You can find the Wolf Man vs Dracula in an old movie called House of Frankenstein, of which was made back in the late 40's. The enivitable pitting of them had more to do with the cult status of both, than their actual mythology since in the 40's, Hollywood producers cared little for legend accuracy. The Wolf Man was a success and so was Dracula and Frankenstein. Thus seeing all three in a movie, would spell success, and it did in some right.

[John 677808]

I think in a werewolf vs vampire situation the werewolves would win since they have the upper hand of being able to move in sunlight and would use the day hours to destroy the vampires underground hideouts. :cool:

[Disturbedreject9]

I think it's just like any other good old monster or creature, at some point in the making of these creatures they must face another creature who is a most formidable enemy. i.e. Vampires are humanlike but not fully they have superhuman powers and drank blood. Werewolves are also humanlike even more so than vamps, they too have superhuman/wolf powers they don't drank blood but kill and eat meat and usually drank some of the blood in the process. If you took werewolves or vamps and compared them to any other creature there would be larger differences so in order to make more fair they pair up two who have similarities. "They" being movie makers, writers, and people in general.

[MythMyrnaM]

Werewolves and vampires were connected in many of the eastern european legends, where I seem to recall the word for a particular demon refered to both. In some translations, Dracula is said to take the form of a hound 'like someone had infused a demon into a great black wolf' (quoting from memory there). Werewolves had sold their soul, and thus denied heaven when they died- but if Satan thought they had not caused enough destruction they would arise as vampires until their second death. However, these myths tend to support the idea that werewolves and vampires were allies, not enemies.


I vouch for and second your statement. I read the same thing a long time ago, from what or where I can't remember.

[J.L.R.]

I think it's just like any other good old monster or creature, at some point in the making of these creatures they must face another creature who is a most formidable enemy. i.e. Vampires are humanlike but not fully they have superhuman powers and drank blood. Werewolves are also humanlike even more so than vamps, they too have superhuman/wolf powers they don't drank blood but kill and eat meat and usually drank some of the blood in the process. If you took werewolves or vamps and compared them to any other creature there would be larger differences so in order to make more fair they pair up two who have similarities. "They" being movie makers, writers, and people in general.

Well as a writer, when I started working on my "pet" project H.O.D. I used vampires and werewolves as symbols for different things. In my story, vampires called the, Nosferatu, were parasites that feed off and abuse life, where as the werewolves, being born of the Earth represented the natural world. It was just a great conflict. One creature seeks to conquer, corrupt, and control the world, while the other seeks to simply be a part of it. As I said... great conflict.

[~VanHelsing~]

The vampire werewolf thing was in Van Helsing. But some werewolves wanted to help dracula but some wanted to kill him. On that movie the only thing that could kill dracula was a werewolf.

[FreudianSlip]

My guess?

Popular concept mixed with popular monsters.

Lets face the fact that out of the ''movie monsters'' vampires and werewolves are the kings of the court. Sure everybody likes old Frankenstein and the Creature from the Black Lagoon, but those really popular movies are usually about Werewolves and Vamps, because people wish they could become those. And in the myths, they can!

Secondly, just look at the old B rated movies about monsters. Frankenstein vs Baragon, Frankenstein vs the Creature from the Black Cove, Dracula vs Frankenstein , Dracula vs King Arthur (!),plan 9 from outer space (against Aliens, no less, and ALMOST starring Bela Lugosi... yes..almost..they say it on the box set!)
Or even the Creature from the Black Lagoon vs Anaconda...Jason vs Freddy rings any bell? People love conflict. Moreso, conflict sells and hooks interest.

So its not surprising that 2 popular favorite monster pics, who end up having such great chemistry when mixed(both being often labelled as ''disease born monsters'')would be featured in numerous games, movies or books, especially 2 monsters who do, in fact, have common mythological lineage in many cultures.

Anywayz, just some random opinion that popped through my head reading this topic that i thought id submit to everyone ;)