Violence/Evil regarding Therianthropy

[wyrm-takes-last]

A wolf is a very violent animal. It enjoys killing its prey and it likes the smell of blood and fresh meat.

Adolf Hitler was a big fan of wolves. His dog was named wolf and one of his army divisions was called the "werewolves".

I don't believe wolves have the ability to do evil. But I do believe people do. Then what of us? What of wolf-like people?
Do you have evil embedded in you? Are you violent? Its not an easy question if you think about it. Maybe being a therianthrope comes with the whole package, violence and all.

People used to think wolves were evil for killing so of course they killed them. Some of a selected group of therianthropes think people that harm wolves are evil. But perhaps its in peoples' nature as well as wolves.

Give me your thoughts regarding therianthropy and evil/violence

[Layira Aura]

I believe animals are not capable of evil. They act on instinct and therefore have no conscious thought about what they do. Animals don't have a conscience as well as a mind dialogue, both things humans do have.

Hitler was evil, he probably only liked wolves for the fact that Adolf means 'wolf'. If you don't believe me, look it up.

People can do evil because we have free will, we can act outside of instinct and know what's right and wrong. However, a therian can be evil for the same reason, they are, essentially, human and has all the parts of a human mind. Also, a person is not born evil. i will quote the musical Wicked on this subject. "Are people born Wicked? Or so they have Wickedness thrust upon them?" This means that something in a person's life makes do bad things, evil things, if you will. No one is born and already done something bad, it just doesn't work that way.

If you consider killing prey violence, they do you also consider killing to protect your young violence, or is all of it simply nature? Wolves don't need to have violence because they do not have vengeful thoughts, just like any other animal. They exist for the sole reason of live, reproduce, die. That is how animals are programmed. Humans have a much longer life span and we are able to "enjoy" other activities, such as working, paying bills, killing people for the sake of killing. Again, animals don't do any of that stuff. unless we're talking about rabies, animals don't kill for "fun, but then that's a whole different story.

Feel free to comment.

[ThrasherCub]

A wolf is a very violent animal.
"Violence" is generally characterized by an uncontrolled, rough force, which does not accurately describe wolves. Wolves are about as violent as a real martial artist.

It enjoys killing its prey
Because it allows the wolf to eat.

and it likes the smell of blood
Because it signals that there is something to eat.

and fresh meat.
Because this is what wolves eat.

I don't believe wolves have the ability to do evil.
Correct. "Evil" implies an evil intent and when an animal kills it's intent is usually "Let's eat!" or "Get the fuck away from me!"

What of wolf-like people?
We have the ability to be evil, just like all other people.

Do you have evil embedded in you?
No. Evil is not "embedded in one" but rather is a choice. It is an option, a path one can take it life. And in all honesty, I have nurtured this seed within me a bit.

Are you violent? Its not an easy question if you think about it.
Not really, and I have no problem thinking about it.

Maybe being a therianthrope comes with the whole package, violence and all.
Since we are humans and all humans come with the possibility of violence and evil, yes of course. Just like going bald with old age can come with the package too.

People used to think wolves were evil for killing so of course they killed them. Some of a selected group of therianthropes think people that harm wolves are evil. But perhaps its in peoples' nature as well as wolves.
1) wolves were seen as evil for killing flocks of animals belonging to humans. Really, they annoyed the hell out of us and so we killed them.
2) I think it's wrong for humans to go about killing wolves at large because we actually have comprehension of what we are doing. Wolf sees a prey animal and it kills it and eats it because it is prey. Now, I'm not one of those nuts who thinks we ought to just get mauled rather than shoot it if we got into a confrontation with a wolf or something, but I see no outstanding need to kill them. There's a much greater need to kill the big cats in places like India that actually eat people and not just livestock.
3) If you want to go down to -nature- humans are prey animals by design and I cannot find much in the way of reasons for humans to kill wolves as an instinct. In fact, the natural instinct of a human in a confrontation with a wolf is to soil itself and then run.

[DarkHunter]

Wolves aren't by default violent. They hunt and kill sure, but that can't be seen really as violence. Its for survival after all. Its the natural order of things. Excited by the scent of blood for the fact that it could mean food.

No doubt Adolf enjoyed the werewolf image due to the intense loyalty and coordination wolves have. I don't think it wise to characterize Hitler as fully evil. I'm sure he didn't consider himself that way and doubt he was totally obsessed with death and brutality. I'm not condoning what he did or saying its right, but you can hardly call it a black and white kind of evil.

If you ask me, humans are the most violent animals in the world with maybe ants running a close second.

[deathjoker]

Evil is a concept thought up by humans. Animals cannot be evil for the fact that animals no-not the idea of "what is evil."

However, people can be evil... So, Therianthropes can be just as evil as any other type of human.

[DarkHunter]

I guess I'll bring up the age old definition:

Good=What you like
Evil=What you Don't Like

It can't readily be applied in any form of objectivity so to deem anything evil, even people, is pointless.

[Gilenea]

This is ridiculous. The concept of evil cannot be applied to animals because it is a man-made term to describe a wrong done on purpose. Nature may seem cruel, but there is nothing about the natural order of Kill to survive" that is evil. Man called wolves evil when the animals were killing their sheep, but they were only doing that out of desperation because they were starving. Wolves did not intentionally invade a human's territory and kill sheep.

Wolves do not attack humans, either. That is a myth. Wolves are EXTREMELY skittish creatures, and they would as soon run from a human as anything. That hardly makes them evil... That pretty much makes them scardy-cats.

People who claim to have some relation to an animal may, in fact, do evil things, but that is due to the HUMAN in them. Not the animal.

Gil

[Cheater388]

I guess I'll bring up the age old definition:

Good=What you like
Evil=What you Don't Like

It can't readily be applied in any form of objectivity so to deem anything evil, even people, is pointless.


Or vice-versa, depending on if you are evil...

Wolves were never evil, you stereotypical bastard... Actually, their kinda cute...

[wyrm-takes-last]

Or vice-versa, depending on if you are evil...

Wolves were never evil, you stereotypical bastard... Actually, their kinda cute...

or sadistic???

Interesting reactions. Please excuse my wording, my original post wasn't posted because my internet went down. The next time I got a chance to post, I was really tired and kind of confused.

A few of you have said, basically that animals can't do evil because they cannot define evil. Well arent people animals?

Its a touchy subject. Some like to view evil and black and white, some think evil is a neccesity, others think there is no difference between evil and good... and a counltess number of other views and ideas. Its up to you I suppose. Please post more of your thoughts.

[MorganaFang]

A few of you have said, basically that animals can't do evil because they cannot define evil. Well arent people animals?



Hahahahaha, using our own reasoning for other topics against us, hilarious!

You're half right, humans are indeed animals, but bear in mind we are a lot more cognitive (as we view it). What's good what's bad is our concepts. Animals depending on their perspectives probably have something similar though when you really look at their own actions don't show they worry that much about such. They are more driven by carnal needs(kill to eat or protect, hump to reproduce, fight to earn hump-age). But! I will give you that we have no idea what is going on in another animals mind anymore than our own species, even less since the communication barrier is quite big.

Going on observation, and the facts gathered from such. I'd say it is a better theory that wolves know no evil. People who are more animalistic have a tendency to be quite aggressive for more of the primal need to be superior.
There are actually a lot of rape studies similar to this subject that really open eyes to possible logic to social behavior of some people.

[Layira Aura]

Yes, humans are technically animals. but we are alot more intelligent than the average mammal. Because of our superior intelligence, we make concepts or ideas for things we don't understand, the same way the Greeks and Romans made up gods and immortal beings to explain things they didn't understand. The only difference there is that we are way too gullible now(that's a different story also) We still have animalistic instincts though. eat, sleep, reproduce, and eventually die. and evil doesn't exist. Evil is a human concept of what we think is bad. So, do you go up to an "evil" person and ask them if they're evil? no, because it's all in perspective. an evil person won't think it's evil because it believe that what it's doing is right and will think that the good person is the one that's evil!

Evil really is, like DarkHunter said, a term for something we don't like, or something that stops us from reaching our goals.

[wyrm-takes-last]

Perhaps there is mearly a difference between whas is good and evil and what people think is good and evil. In a way, there just might be good and evil, but human interpretation distorts it.

Think about when you play "telephone".

In which case if you went up to hitler and asked if he was evil he would say of course not because he believed he was doing the work of god. But then again he did kill himself so perhaps he has a realization of things. No one will ever know how hitler felt, except hitler and he's dead.

If you asked Sudam Hussen if he was evil, he would say of course not be cause he is doing the work of his god because "all americans are evil". Then again Sudam was a greedy selfish bastard so maybe he knows he's evil and just doesn't care.

As far as evil being something we don't like...

I like Diablo and he was pretty evil...

[Lord Laracon]

I'm a therian and I got evil in me, I'm not violent, but I speak like it- if you know what I mean. And people who kill wolves are assholes, not because its bad, it's because they got no fucking right to be killing predatory animals that keep nature in balance.

[Lord Laracon]

Yes, humans are technically animals. but we are alot more intelligent than the average mammal.Actually no, everybody is smart in there one way... Lets see humans hunt and act as a pack. (I bet you couldn't do it, for a week, I hate close contact with people.) Can you track down a bleeding rabbit, with only your senses to guide you? No. Can you bring prey down that weighs 1230 pounds, with only your teeth. No, and don't bother to say that's all brawn not brains!! Because you have to know the animals pressure points, and you have to have enough wits to corner it. :cool:

[Okamiotoko]

While I'm not a therian, I do have some ideas on the topic of animals being good/evil AKA can animals commit sin. First, let me make a distinction: humans are animals, but we are also fundamentally different in that we have reason. Reason is different than intelligence, because reason allows us to question our intelligence.

Anyways, because animals do not have free will, I would say that animals therefore can not sin (do evil). Therefore, animals can not evil (or even judged for that matter) because of their inablility to reason or go against intelligence (instinct).

[DarkHunter]

While I'm not a therian, I do have some ideas on the topic of animals being good/evil AKA can animals commit sin. First, let me make a distinction: humans are animals, but we are also fundamentally different in that we have reason. Reason is different than intelligence, because reason allows us to question our intelligence.

Anyways, because animals do not have free will, I would say that animals therefore can not sin (do evil). Therefore, animals can not evil (or even judged for that matter) because of their inablility to reason or go against intelligence (instinct).

Mark Twain questioned humanity and its ability to reason. Its ability to unreason seemed much more prominent.

We're just animals with different claws that are sharpened, with wings stuck on a different place.

But this is getting off topic isn't it?

Can a Therian commit evil because of their Therianthropy? Probably not. True Therians seek balance with who they are and are not prone to things like that. Evil if you want to call it. I call it stupidity of the Unreasoning Animal whose very abilty to think hinders his ability to act.

[Layira Aura]

I agree with Lord Laracon, humans are smart in our own special way. We're smart at what we do, and that is sit around on our fat lazy asses all day and do nothing!

and no, we couldn't do have the things a wolf can. Can you track down a bleeding rabbit, with only your senses to guide you? No. Can you bring prey down that weighs 1230 pounds, with only your teeth. No

Exactly! We have been brainwashed into the lifestyle where we can't do anything but stare at a tv all day.(BORING! i would rather be out in the woods) we have lost our primal instincts (most of us have) and now live a 9 to 5 life.

But, can we do evil. Yes. Can animals do evil? NO. simple as that(well, not that simple, but that about sums it up! :D )

:droolbloo :droolbloo :droolbloo :droolbloo :droolbloo :beerchug: :notworthy :notworthy ((Don't ask.)):shrug:

[sno raven]

Just a little note. Adolf also means "noble wolf" in german.

Personally I don't believe people can be evil, or anything can be evil. People can DO evil, but not BE evil. Does that make sense?

[ulfheadnar]

Just a little note. Adolf also means "noble wolf" in german.

Personally I don't believe people can be evil, or anything can be evil. People can DO evil, but not BE evil. Does that make sense?

Oh yes they can. I've met some. It comes off them like a foul stench. Rotten to the core. If you know anyone with psychic abilities, ask them, they'll tell you.

Now where it comes from, I don't know. I don't know if they were born that way, had something take them over, or corrupted themselves over time.

Ever have someone give you a really bad "creep" vibe just by being near them? Trust your instincts.

As for animals being "evil", I'm of the opinion that there are some entities that can use animals to do harm. That means they are being ridden, and not doing it of their own accord, but the result can be what we would consider evil.

There are good and bad forces out there. They can corrupt people or animals. The results can be good or bad depending on the influence.

[wyrm-takes-last]

Oh yes they can. I've met some. It comes off them like a foul stench. Rotten to the core. If you know anyone with psychic abilities, ask them, they'll tell you.

Now where it comes from, I don't know. I don't know if they were born that way, had something take them over, or corrupted themselves over time.

Ever have someone give you a really bad "creep" vibe just by being near them? Trust your instincts.

As for animals being "evil", I'm of the opinion that there are some entities that can use animals to do harm. That means they are being ridden, and not doing it of their own accord, but the result can be what we would consider evil.

There are good and bad forces out there. They can corrupt people or animals. The results can be good or bad depending on the influence.


Probably the most interesting reply thus far. They again if what you say is true, perhaps there just aren't that many evil people in the world. If you disagree with The president and hate everything he stands for, that doesn't really mean anything, he probably thinks he's doing a good thing. If you hate Adolf hitler (wouldn't blame you for that one...) it also doesn't mean much because he thought he was doing his duty to god and all man kind. Most people who other people think to be evil are only doing what they think is good.

[sno raven]

Oh yes they can. I've met some. It comes off them like a foul stench. Rotten to the core. If you know anyone with psychic abilities, ask them, they'll tell you.

Ever have someone give you a really bad "creep" vibe just by being near them? Trust your instincts.


Yes. I have. But that does not make something 'evil'.... evil is all relative and In my opinion, over rated. One mans god is another's devil as they say. Nothing is ever black and white. If something supposedly 'evil' can love, how is it evil? I've known of things who were called, and were sworn to be evil, even people, and even though something or someone is dark, does not mean they are all hatred. All death. It doesn't mean it encompases their entire being.

Such 'evil' things don't exist, IMO and experience because, the majority of things, or beings, or people that are being called evil, actually have some sort of concious. They are sentient and aware of their own being and existence as well as the existence of their own kind.

Now, someone can DO evil things. But cannot be evil, not 100% of the time. Even when you think about things that are evil, really think about it. There is usually a purpose behind why it happened. A goal. Even if its not the goal of another's, and usually not thought upon. There is still a goal, which means that this so called 'evil' thing, is ever changing and thinking.

Now I hear you out with the certain vibes people can create. I've felt that too often. But these people are still people, still humans. Even if you believe in the possession of demons, or spirits...

Still not sure if this makes sense to everyone, but it makes sense to me. The definition, to me, of 'evil'... is misunderstood and ignorance.

[TheBlueWolfW.W.]

I am hot-tempered, but this is not because of my therianthropy. It is just who I am. The wolf in me would rather run, but she wants to fight as well...when she has to.

Also, I would like to note that Adolf means wolf. Very, very ironic.

[Ultimate Carnage]

I firmly believe this Quote from Voldemort from the books (and movies based on them) Harry Potter “There is no good or evil only power and those to weak to seek it” because if you really think about it, many things can be considered evil or good by certain people depending on your opinion. Just like war, some people believe that war is wrong because it is wrong to kill another human being even if that other human has killed many humans while others people believe that the punishment should fit the crime. An eye for an eye. But I believe the only people that should die is the ones that deserve it but some people believe that you shouldn’t talk like that, while others believe differently on what is deserving of death.

[wyrm-takes-last]

I firmly believe this Quote from Voldemort from the books (and movies based on them) Harry Potter “There is no good or evil only power and those to weak to seek it” because if you really think about it, many things can be considered evil or good by certain people depending on your opinion. Just like war, some people believe that war is wrong because it is wrong to kill another human being even if that other human has killed many humans while others people believe that the punishment should fit the crime. An eye for an eye. But I believe the only people that should die is the ones that deserve it but some people believe that you shouldn’t talk like that, while others believe differently on what is deserving of death.

"War is often as punishing to the punisher as it is to the punished" I forgot who said that

wait a second, voldemort was a crazy wizard...

I don't think I would believe anythign a crazy wizard says. and I'm going to say that voldemort is a crazy evil wizard because he is only a fictional character

[Ultimate Carnage]

"War is often as punishing to the punisher as it is to the punished" I forgot who said that

wait a second, voldemort was a crazy wizard...

I don't think I would believe anythign a crazy wizard says. and I'm going to say that voldemort is a crazy evil wizard because he is only a fictional character Wheather he is an evil wizard or not I dont care I just said that i like that quote and I agree with it it doesnt matter who said it

[EveOfDiscord]

Wheather he is an evil wizard or not I dont care I just said that i like that quote and I agree with it it doesnt matter who said it
Great words to live by. Who cares who said the quote, as long as you kinda like what they said, right?
"Anyone who sees and paints a sky green and fields blue ought to be sterilized." - Hitler. :D

[wyrm-takes-last]

Maybe all this talk about there really being "no good or evil" is just man-kinds way of covering up the fact that he is evil.

[MorganaFang]

Maybe all this talk about there really being "no good or evil" is just man-kinds way of covering up the fact that he is evil.

That is a completely juvenile way of thinking, I am sorry but it really is. Let me ask you this, do you believe you are evil? Aren't you technically of the race called man?

Edit: the fictional quote doesn't really matter but it's origin is not the crazy evil wizard but the Author. christ. Which basically it is an idea that has been around for a long time anyway making it kind of relevant I suppose. Think about getting spanked and what your parents might say: "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you!"

Has nothing to do with being evil and more to do with feeling a certain amount of empathy when you are doing something antagonizing to another person.

[DarkHunter]

Great words to live by. Who cares who said the quote, as long as you kinda like what they said, right?
"Anyone who sees and paints a sky green and fields blue ought to be sterilized." - Hitler. :D

Technically thats still an example of an idiotic statement. I'm sure he said something wise at some point. Wisdom is still wisdom no matter the source (though like I said, not that particular Hitler quote, Eve).

[blueeyes]

He was a fan of vegetarianism, for example; while stupid, is of dubious EVIIIIIL. He also encouraged non-smoking and drank alcohol rarely. Strangely, some reports suggest that he seemed to dislike those who benefited from deaths without understanding those deaths, which make his entire genocide deal even more disturbing. I think that's about it.

Anyway, as to the OP:

Wolves aren't 'evil'. There's no capacity for empathy or the resulting sadism. Like all non-primate mammals, there are no functioning mirror neurons. Only some of the higher primates, and rare bird species, show these developments. Without them, an individual is just as capable of being evil to another individual as you are to a chair.

Arrogant, self-centered, and simplistic, yes, but that's a whole other story, and one only supportable by my experiences and not current scientific knowledge.

Are wolf-like individuals (or other mammal-like individuals) more likely to be 'evil'? To a degree, yes : many human normal social interactions revolve around subtext that is directly confrontational to non-human neurology. As examples, prolonged eye-eye contact is considered confrontational among nearly all non-primate animals, while Western humans find it strange to not provide in a normal conversation with a stranger. An outreached hand typically is a threat or dominance act, but human cultures typically use it to introduce themselves. Reacting to human cultures with animal responses is likely to result in unneeded conflict, typically viewed as evil.

Is this likely or necessary? No, almost assuredly not : not only does the choice of flight-fight confrontation leave a nonviolent possibility, as humans or near-humans we have the capability to retrain past our original intentions.

[wyrm-takes-last]

That is a completely juvenile way of thinking, I am sorry but it really is. Let me ask you this, do you believe you are evil? Aren't you technically of the race called man?

Yes, that is what concerns me so much. Maybe we should all look at ourselves for a moment and ponder the question of our morality

[FoxyPirateWench]

see my veiw of evil is someone or somthing that purposely goes out of thier way to cause harm/pain to someone/somthing and gets pleasure from the act, and such act is not derived from a survival need.

the wolf is NOT evil...he doesnt go kill cute little rabbits just to see them bleed, he kills to eat, priman survival instinct

a serial killer, EVIL, kills because they get some pleasure out of the act there doing whihc causes harm and it is not an act required to survive.

a victim of a serial killer who fights back and in this theoretical case wins and kills the attacker is NOT evil, the responce was a primal need for survival.


unlike many i dont think the human race is evil. i think there are evil individuals out there, but i dont think were instinctually evil as a race.
unfortunatly i think our veiws are scewed to a point where we as a race veiw things that would be classed as evil in any other defintion (killing for sport would be my best example) that today ther are not deemed as such, but i do not think we are inherently evil as a reace of beings.

if that makes any sense at all, im not good at putting thought into word!

[EveOfDiscord]

I personally believe that Evil Doesn't exist; just like Coldness nor darkness exists. Its just the lack of positivity and kindness. T'is not tangible, cannot be measured, its just a word, and a word only Human's understand.
Even if "Evil" did exist, can you commit an evil deed if you're not aware what it Evil is? Of course not.
Animals live on Primal instinct, they're just surviving. They know nothing of evils, therefore, they cannot commit it.
Also...
Therianthropes are just people who have a spiritual connection with some kind of animal. Plain and Simple. You could have a Spiritual connection with Rabbits, which are Docile creatures and of course, Herbivores. How is that at all Evil?
By your post, it seems like you're assuming all Therianthropes have a connection with Wolves, which is entirely untrue.

So basically what I'm tyring to say is, Therianthropy has nothing to do with Evils, and all to do with a Connection with Animals and nature.

God, I'm tired. I must've used the word "Evil" a billion times.

[Anu-Hatsum]

For me Good and Evil are forces that are very much real.
In the Animal kingdom, Neutrality prevails over Good or Evil. They just do what they must to survive.

Humans contain all three forces, at least from what I've seen. Evil seems to be getting the edge as it used to in the older days of Mankind.

Good is...Fading...

[DarkHunter]

Well tell me whenever did "Good" get the upperhand?

Is the serial killer "evil" for his nature when most times you can't help who you are? Consider the David Reimer case. That guy couldnt' quite help the fact that he felt like a guy on the inside. Can a serial killer change who he is?

Can a rabid dog help being rabid?



Seriously you guys talk about good and evil like it is an objective idea. Its not and never will be. There is no real Good or Evil. We are PART of the animal kingdom. WE ARE ANIMALS! We aren't good or evil. Wolves do things that could be seen as evil too. They'll drive individuals out of the pack when things go wrong.

Anything can be seen as either good or evil if you're restricted to dualistic thinking. Plenty of animals do things that may seem evil to you, but its neutral when they do it? Male lions will ruthlessly slaughter cubs from former dominant males.

Good and Evil are ideas, nothign more.

[EveOfDiscord]

Not everyone agrees we're Animals; A lot of people believe we're somehow superior, some think we're equal but different, however, I don't think that even matters.
Lets say we are Animals. We have a higher intellect, and a strange sense of ethics and morals which all the other animals seem to not have. Do wolves kill something, then feel bad about it afterwards? No. And they don't need to, its just for survival.
However, if we killed something, say, like a dog, for almost no apparent reason, we'd be likely to say "Wow. I really shouldn't have done that."

Animals can't do evil, and thats that, and you're completely correct in that regard.
But while you don't believe in Good or Evil, you have to admit, some deeds are not morally sound. Like going down to the Local Elementary school, slaughtering all the First Graders, wearing their skin as raincoats, then raping their mothers when they come to pick their now dead children up from school, or torturing their fathers, etc. etc.
Animals know nothing of torture and cruelty, and do not take pleasure in others pain, while humans can.
Do you see a difference?

[MorganaFang]

But while you don't believe in Good or Evil, you have to admit, some deeds are not morally sound. Like going down to the Local Elementary school, slaughtering all the First Graders, wearing their skin as raincoats, then raping their mothers when they come to pick their now dead children up from school, or torturing their fathers, etc. etc.
Animals know nothing of torture and cruelty, and do not take pleasure in others pain, while humans can.
Do you see a difference?

Buh.... You just provided more of a statement that sides that there is no evil outside of the human noggin. Morals, Good, Evil are all ideals brought to you by the human species which is an animal according to science and evolution.

[wyrm-takes-last]

Buh.... You just provided more of a statement that sides that there is no evil outside of the human noggin.

I'll agree with that to a certain degree. The difference is between what "IS" good or bad and what people "THINK" is good or bad. the difference between the two ranges from little to nearly opposites. I'm not sure but I think I've already said something fairy similar to this.

But it makes perfect sense that people would like to think that there is no good or evil. If thats the case then why not kill an animal or slaughter an entire family for no apparent reason? If thats the case whats so bad about what hitler did? Hell, why shouldn't I lie or cheat or steal as long as I know I wont get caught? From a logically point of view, it seems only right that someone would do all of these things, if it's worth it to you then why not? What is the real down-side of it if you really want it?

The human mind is the distortion of what is good and evil.

[MorganaFang]

But it makes perfect sense that people would like to think that there is no good or evil. If thats the case then why not kill an animal or slaughter an entire family for no apparent reason? If thats the case whats so bad about what hitler did? Hell, why shouldn't I lie or cheat or steal as long as I know I wont get caught? From a logically point of view, it seems only right that someone would do all of these things, if it's worth it to you then why not? What is the real down-side of it if you really want it?

The human mind is the distortion of what is good and evil.

You could get away with slaughtering babies if you don't think it's evil, then it's not evil to you. You'd be doing it for whatever reason you want to. Though someone else may see that as evil and thus it makes it evil to them and them alone unless others view it that way.

Blah blah blah, I feel like I'm repeating myself and this thread has strayed from the original post. The consensus however, is that wolves are not evil, capable of it in the minds of humans but other than some people thinking so wolves have no sense of evil.

If people what to discuss whether there is good or evil in the world I suggest starting a new thread in Philosophy.

[Gilenea]

Really, there is no "right" and there is no "wrong." The whole morality issue isn't some instinctual thing. People think a male lion killing another male's cubs to ensure his OWN genetic destiny is wrong when it's nothing more than nature taking its course. To a human, it seems cruel, but to nature, that's just how the cookie crumbles.

Evil, as it were, is an action deemed as such by man. Evil is a category of action, not a state of being anyway. Just because a person chooses to do what they think is "evil" doesn't make them an "evil person." There is no such thing.

Corner a wolf and it attacks you, people will call it evil and bad. That was nothing more than the wolf reacting to its environment. The human was bad for putting a wolf in that situation.

Good and bad, right and wrong, evil and saintly are things made up by man. Outside of man, there really ISN'T right or wrong. Just nature.

Therefore, wolves CANNOT be evil.

Gil

[DarkHunter]

Perhaps the man who murders all the first graders is ensuring his own genetic destiny instead, stamping out competition from the fathers, and impregnating the mothers to further his own genetics?

Its cruel logic, sure. But you can't rule out the idea that animals don't get some form of pleasure out of the things they do. You forget they don't know words and ideas. Its easy to think, "Oh its for their genetic destiny." But does an animal think of it like that? Its too pretty, too easy, and significantly less brutal than the truth: He's in charge now and he's going to demonstrate that.

Animals can be just as violent as a human being, though they don't have our exact methods (like bombs). Ants wage war on their own species. Cats play with mice.

They're ugly activities. And they're not evil. Just as human beings really aren't "evil" in any concrete way because "Evil" and "Morality" don't exist. They are concepts that attempt to codify human nature.

There's no arguing this point.

[MorganaFang]

And with that I feel this topic has been nailed waaaay too deep into the ground. Let try for some new topics in Therianthropy and spirituality folks :D