The darker side of Christian belief

[Wraywolf]

Some links to make you angry.
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0084/0084_01.asp Gay Bashing
http://www.chick.com/bc/1999/wicca.asp Wicca is satanic
http://www.chick.com/seasonal/halloween/halloweenhistory.asp Halloween is evil

I'm sure there are more stupid storys, but I started to vomit. Search if you don't like your sanity.

[purinpuff]

Wow, that's interesting art.


*Looks at other comics*

"Christians will never be effective as long as they have astrology books, tarot or playing cards, rock music occult jewelry and games like D. and D. or ouija boards in their homes."


Well, for all I know, they all could be really bad (I'm not God's secretary), but... rock music?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp

:mad: Okay, now I'm getting peeved.

[silenceowl]

silenceowl pummels himself in the face, then huddles in the corner with all the lights turned out saying over and over agian "dont let the christians get me, dont let the christians get me"

Bad christians, go too your room.:mad:

[LV426]

::snickers and milkyways::

I think this group needs their warning labels removed.

[purinpuff]

I can't turn to God, and I can't turn against God...

How uncomfortable websites like that make me feel.

I mean, it makes me wonder if my gut feelings are really temptation.

But, still, I don't want to turn to a gangster boss God who embodies most of what we hate in humans (I guess that's why he's God and we're humans).

But maybe that's the challenge; turning to a God you hate.

Ah, well... My belief may come and go, but my faith always stays... Ugh, I never thought I'd be thanking that teacher for making us read "A Visit to Morin." Wait, it's not the reading I hate, it's the way he blah blah rant rant etc.

[Ender]

This is one "Christian" for all we know, or it could be someone who doesn't like Christianty, and wrote alot of inane things to make Christianty look bad... Hundreds of possibilites. I hardly think we should condem thier entire cult for what could be one radicule's ideas- Wait, they messed with D&D?... :p

[Xzengrim]

That's hysterical!! The sad part is, I used to have the hardcopy leaflets of two of those. I used to live in a VERY religious little town. I got bombed with leaflets when I wore my Slayer shirts to school. Then bombed again when I played D&D and other games. And when the rumours went around that ol' Grim was a werewolf... well, you can only imagine.

ANyway, does anyone know where I can find one of those about the dangers of rock and roll music (heavy metal in particular)? That was always my favorite one.

Now, have some extremely blasphemous music:
"Blasphemy laughs at thee
Jesus you've been decieved
Struggling on the cross
Gagging to breathe.
Despite your god question why
You were recieved by the Angel of Light..."

~Deicide, "Once Upon the Cross"

[MexicanJewLizard]

I don't see the point in this post.

A lot of you guys think you're werewolves or vampires and I can call you insane, and a lot of people believe in God, which doesn't really seem odd in my opinion, but staying on the subject, I think this post was offensive to the people of this religion, or closely related. :rolleyes:

[FalseFace]

i was just looking at the link purinpuff put up... i used to be catholic and i think half tha things they said we're either made up, miss stated, or stretched way out of proportion....and hey where did that roman catholic militant group thing come from, i never heard of that :( was it going on at all thoughs youth group things i skipped?
i think i'll show my religious grandma the link she'd probably flip. she's very catholic and often asks me why i've stopped going to church. anyone got any good answers? i think she'll be asking me for the rest of my life. i just tell her it's not for me, but she doesn't seem to understand. i guess i did learn something from that site though... i'm definitly going to hell you know with all the bi-sexuality, believing evolution, rping, having fun on halloween, haveing fun in general, blasphemy, not really trusting the bible, being pro-choice and very open minded, and anything else u want to add to the list. oh well good thing i don't believe him.

[purinpuff]

i was just looking at the link purinpuff put up... i used to be catholic and i think half tha things they said we're either made up, miss stated, or stretched way out of proportion....and hey where did that roman catholic militant group thing come from, i never heard of that :( was it going on at all thoughs youth group things i skipped?

For one thing, putting the host in a thingie to show it off is an Eastern Orthodox thing.

I've never seen a thing to catch the Eucharist if it dropps. I think I heard that the priest has to eat it off the floor if that happens.

I'll have to ask about why the Eucharist is round and made of cake decoration material... I always thought it was because it was easier to handle and more easily preserved.

It is true that in the past people could only have it placed in their mouths and not their hands since they were considered unworthy to touch the body of Christ (this whole "God is too good for you" thing is what encouraged praying to saints).

Confirmation is what makes up for the fact that the people were baptized before they believed. It's like a right of passage. You do all these lessons and stuff on Wisdom, Fortitude, Awe, Prudence, etc.
(I remember these from 8th grade... I didn't get Confirmed, myself, though)

The fear of the Pope using Catholics to control the world is an old one. I mean, America used to have a BIG anti-Catholic feeling. It's kinda like the theories of Jews controlling the world from behind the scenes, if you ask me. For the most part, we don't really listen to the pope, anyway. XD Bad? Good? I dunno. But we have a pretty good pope now, so...

I don't see what's so bad about having stuff in common with other religions. I see having similar figures and such (like a lady of love and forgiveness) as a sign that we are all the same, really.

Yes, it is true that all of those sacraments aren't specified and aren't really necessary, but I think we need rituals and such. I mean, look at the cultures that formed around rituals and beliefs and superstitions that sprang up from the purer forms of religions.

[LV426]

I'm not sure how the post was offensive, as I see it the person who has that website is bordering on offensive for many people. The post merely brought attention to the short sightedness of some people who use religion as a means of fueling their own personal campaigns.


There are other religions that do this as well.

I find most of it humorous, it is also good to know this reference when someone is trying to convince you that you are evil for not believing in their religious being.

The best way to win is to know thine enemy.

[LV426]

So goes religious extremism (and I'm not just talking about jihad).
The worst thing about a fanatic is not that he/she will die to prove their point, but that they will die and take you with them to prove that point.

[Rhinoland]

The worst thing about a fanatic is not that he/she will die to prove their point, but that they will die and take you with them to prove that point.
Sooooo flippin True!!!!!

Ahem Respect the religions of others is necessary to enjoy life
Respect given is it earned
Live peacefully ally
Dont provoke the fanatics
keep on Howling!

[Shandrel]

well lets see, where to begin,
do i believe christians have the fundamental right to believe what they wish, yes.
do i believe that i am going to hell for things that i beleive, no
do i believe that wicca thing is a crock, absolutly
sheesh, if i got handed those pamplets i would burn them. But then, yah know some "CHRISTIANS" tried to burn me in a school yard.
really tried thank you. What kind of example is being set? supossedly christ was a kind and generouse man/god/whatever, so why for is all the killling in the christian religion, i beleive he told them to stop that.

[MexicanJewLizard]

well lets see, where to begin,
do i believe christians have the fundamental right to believe what they wish, yes.
do i believe that i am going to hell for things that i beleive, no
do i believe that wicca thing is a crock, absolutly
sheesh, if i got handed those pamplets i would burn them. But then, yah know some "CHRISTIANS" tried to burn me in a school yard.
really tried thank you. What kind of example is being set? supossedly christ was a kind and generouse man/god/whatever, so why for is all the killling in the christian religion, i beleive he told them to stop that.

Then I highly doubt the "Christians" you have come in contact with were actually real Christians. :shrug:

Oh yeah, congrats with you and Leah. :wavey:

[Xzengrim]

I've got nothing against Christians; they're usually nice and interesting and they're not jerks. I don't think this post has any antipathy towards the average Christian.

But it IS fun to make fun of fundamentalist anti-Islamic, abortion-is-genocide, leaflet throwing, Jesus-fish-on-the-car, Bible-beating, rock-music-is-evil, scraping, praying, "Pray-se Je-SUS!" style insane people. I like to watch Pat Robertson on the TV, because he said that wiccans are part of a militant satanic pagan invasion that was plotting to take over the world, and that feminism was a communist ploy to get women to leave their husbands, kill their children, worship Satan, become lesbians, and undermine world religion from the inside out with their perverse moral bankruptcy. I laughed so hard!

Oh, and...
"do i believe that wicca thing is a crock, absolutly"
*Bear-hugs Shandrel and licks her face*

Wheeeee! I'm going to start my own religion. I don't know what it will be like... but we'll barbeque anything we sacrifice, and we won't have to pay taxes.

[LV426]

Wicca today is like paganized christianity.

[ArcaneWolf]

DUDE GRIM! I watch pat robertson show too and it's almos tas funny as the Daily Show (comedy Central). It was really hilarious when pat and all those idiots were praying to congress to change thier "evil liberal ways". I choked with laughter.

I find a lot of my inspiration from life in music and here's a prime example from the great Norweign band Enslaved:


For Lenge Siden

[A Long Time Ago]

Hymns were sung
In the times when our people still were proud
In the long gone past
A long time ago

Then came the disease
The disease from south
Deception and false knowledge
Infected our minds

Survival of the fittest was forgotten
But still it didn't disappear
Beneath the layers of a thousand years of deception
Burns the ancient northern thoughts

Fight! Don't let your powers disappear
Our sunset shall also be our dawn

They burned our temples
They killed our men
We shall take back
What once were ours

Fight! Deny not your mind
Our sunset shall also be our dawn

We shall once again sing
Hymns from ancient times
Like we did in those days
A long time ago

[Shandrel]

Then I highly doubt the "Christians" you have come in contact with were actually real Christians. :shrug:

Oh yeah, congrats with you and Leah. :wavey:
lol one more thing, i DO have another mate lol, we're getting married nov. 9th 2004 :) lol but leah and i do have ALOT of fun lol

[Shandrel]

i agree to a point, personaly i see most churches ( i know this will be flamed :P) as herds, if you will, they need to be with people who believe like them, Then they prey on the other herds. Organized religion is a dangerouse thing. the few people in charge have complete control, think about it if the pope said not to eat candy, 90 % of devote catholics would stop eating candy(or eat and then confess) Look at he cursades, the spanish inquasition, all instagated by the leaders of the church. and no it is not just christian, the Jews have practices genocide, the arabs, well we all know about that, The only real peaceful mass religions are buddism, ( i am sure there are others, but i don't know of them) there was a island where there was no word for war, or anything like that, yet when christianity got introduced the people started killing, raping and stealing, why is this, is it the religion? no, it's people, any religion can be "pure" however, the people in charge are curuptable, and do curupt. that is a fact of life. personal beliefs are another thing, most christians, by themselves are not violent, neither are jews, or arabs. It is their leaders who want more power, more converts to tax, more whorship and honor for themselves. The bible has been translated to fit the catholic church, there was two monks who worte a book and "witchcraft" when the pope read it, he started the death to the witches campain, not god's word like they claim, the bible, hebrew version says noting about killing "good" witches, or even bad ones, they are talking about poisoners, which in the book the monks wrote, defined witches, saying because they could use herbs they wer ekilling people, this went for midwives and any other healers as well. The people themselves, did not come up with that, their leader did. That is why religion is a very dangerouse thing.

(yes my spelling sux, and so does my typing)

[purinpuff]

Actually, Catholics pretty much ignore the pope, especially after one pope did that thing on how birth control is wrong (he wanted an "easy" topic that wouldn't cause any trouble, so he chose birth control instead of nuclear war. Reeeeal smart).

[Speaker-with-Spirits]

This is one "Christian" for all we know, or it could be someone who doesn't like Christianty, and wrote alot of inane things to make Christianty look bad... Hundreds of possibilites. I hardly think we should condem thier entire cult for what could be one radicule's ideas- Wait, they messed with D&D?... :p

for starters, it is not a cult...it is a religion...there is a slight difference. cults are religions practiced by small groups and are practiced a small percentage of people. religions are major things that are practiced a large group, or even entire nations.

unfortunately, some christians believe that D&D is satanic...personally , I disagree completely...as long as you don't let the character you're playing as control your life literally, then there shouldn't be a problem...feth, I play VtM, and now WtA :buttrock: :cool:

[Speaker-with-Spirits]

i agree to a point, personaly i see most churches ( i know this will be flamed :P) as herds, if you will, they need to be with people who believe like them, Then they prey on the other herds. Organized religion is a dangerouse thing. the few people in charge have complete control, think about it if the pope said not to eat candy, 90 % of devote catholics would stop eating candy(or eat and then confess) Look at he cursades, the spanish inquasition, all instagated by the leaders of the church. and no it is not just christian, the Jews have practices genocide, the arabs, well we all know about that, The only real peaceful mass religions are buddism, ( i am sure there are others, but i don't know of them) there was a island where there was no word for war, or anything like that, yet when christianity got introduced the people started killing, raping and stealing, why is this, is it the religion? no, it's people, any religion can be "pure" however, the people in charge are curuptable, and do curupt. that is a fact of life. personal beliefs are another thing, most christians, by themselves are not violent, neither are jews, or arabs. It is their leaders who want more power, more converts to tax, more whorship and honor for themselves. The bible has been translated to fit the catholic church, there was two monks who worte a book and "witchcraft" when the pope read it, he started the death to the witches campain, not god's word like they claim, the bible, hebrew version says noting about killing "good" witches, or even bad ones, they are talking about poisoners, which in the book the monks wrote, defined witches, saying because they could use herbs they wer ekilling people, this went for midwives and any other healers as well. The people themselves, did not come up with that, their leader did. That is why religion is a very dangerouse thing.

(yes my spelling sux, and so does my typing)


herds? hey, I don't know about that...personally, I find that I tend to stay away from church, as I don't like social interaction much, and feth, I can worship God in my own room with my gf whenever the feth I want to!!! as for the part about leaders being power-hungry, it is true, I'm afraid...but then again, isn't it true with most people? especially people in power?
people have corrupted the world...it has become a corrupt place, full of people indulging themselves, seeking more power, bloodshed, and hate. it is really quite depressing really...not all christians are so quick to judge though... it is sad that all those witch-hunts even occurred. the individuals who partook in those events were the biggest hypocrites alive...they claim that they are following the teaching of Christ, when in actuality, they are not. christ teaches us to not kill.

[Speaker-with-Spirits]

I've got nothing against Christians; they're usually nice and interesting and they're not jerks. I don't think this post has any antipathy towards the average Christian.

But it IS fun to make fun of fundamentalist anti-Islamic, abortion-is-genocide, leaflet throwing, Jesus-fish-on-the-car, Bible-beating, rock-music-is-evil, scraping, praying, "Pray-se Je-SUS!" style insane people. I like to watch Pat Robertson on the TV, because he said that wiccans are part of a militant satanic pagan invasion that was plotting to take over the world, and that feminism was a communist ploy to get women to leave their husbands, kill their children, worship Satan, become lesbians, and undermine world religion from the inside out with their perverse moral bankruptcy. I laughed so hard!

Oh, and...
"do i believe that wicca thing is a crock, absolutly"
*Bear-hugs Shandrel and licks her face*

Wheeeee! I'm going to start my own religion. I don't know what it will be like... but we'll barbeque anything we sacrifice, and we won't have to pay taxes.

well, there's nothing wrong with praying...feth, the number of times I've prayed and God's delivered is...is...feth, I've lost count. from my understanding, Wicca is an earth based religion, which is very much like Garou beliefs. as for feminism, there's nothing wrong with it at all...I believe that women are equal to men...and I have no problem in them letting men who think otherwise know it...I just don't want any Black Furies running around, know what I mean?

[Wolffy13]

I hate fundies! Christian fundies, wiccan fundies, whatever. they all just suck!

[ArcaneWolf]

In my last post I didn't exactly express my beliefs on religion in general so here: I personally think Religion isn't needed in life. Religion is something that is a community and when a community develops, certain indviduals become leaders. Overtime these leaders will go corrupt (esp. if they are given absolute power and faith from their followers). Spirituality on the other hand is something that I think everyone should have, because it's something that is individual and can change as you change. Religion forces dogma, spirituality doesn't.

when it comes to feminism and sexism, follow the words of Aliester Crowley:
"Every Man and Woman is a star"

[Xzengrim]

I almost killed an old man today with a blast of mighty Death Metal! I was walking down the street with my walkman on, and one of those suits that hands out those Christian pamphlets came and tried to hand me one. I ignored him at first, but he asked, "What are you listening to?"

"Deicide" says I. "Here; give it a try."

I switched the track to the song "Crucifixation" and handed him the headphones. There was a drumroll, a blast of hellish guitar fire, and then Glenn Barton started screaming "Give praise to Satan! /For he has won! You will give praise... to Satan!/ King of kings... Spread your wings!"

The guy turned white and walked in the opposite direction very very quickly. Go guitar-power, go!

[Chaoil]

"October 31st was celebrated by the Druids with many human sacrifices and a festival honoring their sun god and Samhain, the lord of the dead. They believed that the sinful souls of those who died during the year were in a place of torment, and would be released only if Samhain was pleased with their sacrifices. "
that is Utter BS. Samhain is no GOD....ack!! Uneducated peoples.

[Wraywolf]

Just a side note, I’m not directing any beef towards christens in general. I think Xzen put it nicely when he said all the hyper active bullheaded Christians are the annoying ones, and Christians in general are not a problem. It all comes down to the individual person, really. You can't just bunch people up, saying "I don't like them" It all comes down to the person themselves, and how annoying or non-annoying s/he is.

This is true even for Satanists. I have no idea about the rituals, practices, or beliefs of most Satanists, besides the fact that Satan is usually involved at some point. I, myself, have no real interest in worshipping an incarnate of all things evil anymore than I have the inclination to worship the mailman. As long as they aren’t hurting anything, annoying me with pamphlets, or interrupting my showers, I really don’t care what they do. People have rights, and I can’t tell them how to act.

[ArcaneWolf]

That's fuckign awesome Xzengrim, keep th evil Death Metal Rolling! :buttrock:

About satanism, at least the kind that was taught by Anton LeVay didn't actually believe in Satan. They use Satan as a symbol for their ideals of life and as an opposition to christianity. But in all honest they don't believe that Satan or God exist. Levay basically that you should do what you want to in life and you have every right to take revenge for a wrong done against you.

[Xzengrim]

Satanism is different from devil worship. Devil worship is an inversion of the Christian doctrine, while Satanism is a completely different religion. The first carnal religion. Which uses Satan mainly as a symbol, saying that it stands for the opposite of Christianity (self absorption rather than loving thy neighbor, revenge and destruction instead of turning the other cheek, hedonism instead of self-discipline).

I forget exactly what their nine commandments are. They go something like; be true to yourself, be kind to everyone - but if they do you wrong, then destroy them... stuff like that.

I'm not a satanist, I don't like their religion anymore than any other religions. But if you want to know what they're about in a nutshell, see www.satanism101.com. It's a least worth seeing for the title alone.

I think that's the site. I'm not real sure. I'll check back if I got it wrong.

[Wraywolf]

See? Live and learn. You shouldn’t decide to hate people before you at least know something about them. *Preaches*

Now NUKE THOSE GODAMN HIPPIES. Pot smoking unhygienic demon spawn! Purge them from the earth!

[Speaker-with-Spirits]

See? Live and learn. You shouldn’t decide to hate people before you at least know something about them. *Preaches*

Now NUKE THOSE GODAMN HIPPIES. Pot smoking unhygienic demon spawn! Purge them from the earth!

violence is not the answer...a good way to make the satanists see their error is a nice trip to Hell....let them taste what's in store for them unless they change their ways...then, if they still insist on doing what they've always done, then meh :shrug:

[Ender]

"Unlike most religions that hold you accountable for your behavior, Christian salvation is based on what you believe. it's you're faith, not your works, that get you into Heaven. Christian are "forgiven" their sins, therefore Christians can go out and sin, and get away with it.

However, Christians aren't supposed to sin. Sin is the Devil working through you and is considered a bad indicator as to the state of your "faith". So sin is discouraged, but there is no direct relationship between your behavior and judgment because you're not judges on what you did (wrong) but on what you believe in. This allows Christian to have two standards of behavior, what they are supposed to do, and what they are allowed to get away with. Christianity caters to lazy and irresponsible believers who can continue unethical practices that most other religions wouldn't put up with. Jews also believe in judgment, but judgment is tied to what you do, not what you say you believe in. Jews believe that what you do is a true reflection as to what you really believe. Eastern religions are similar except that instead of the Heaven/Hell/Judgement paradigm it's about moving up and down the reincarnation ladder.
All these beliefs are equally stupid, but a religion that ties personal behavior to rewards or punishment beyond death at least serves the purpose of intimidating stupid people into being good. On that account Christianity fails to make that connection and is therefore condones implicitly irresponsible behavior among it's followers.
Christianity is also an ecologically irresponsible religion. Christians believe that Christ is coming back and is going to destroy the world, and therefore it's ok to trash the planet because Jesus is going to destroy it anyhow. This destruction is going to occur in our lifetime ... however, we did make it through Y2K and Jesus isn't here yet, and if I were a Christian, I'd be getting pretty nervous that Armageddon is coming any time soon. Nonetheless, Christians don't accept that this planet is a finite ball in space and it's our home (for now) and that we have to keep it clean and livable.
The biggest ecological threat we have is overpopulation. Christianity is the enemy, in general, of responsible family planning, which includes access to abortions and birth control. The church opposes the use of new technologies that empower women to have control and choice as to when they will reproduce. Christianity considers sex a sin and that pregnancy to be a deterrent to sexual behavior, and to remove the penalty of pregnancy would result in increased sexual activity. However, the church's opposition to birth control, mostly by catholics, has resulted in overpopulation and has increased famine, disease, and death. Christianity has not been the friend of preserving the limited resources of the planet." In general Christianity IS a cult and a menace to society and more importantly to humanity. Seriously, no birth control? Why? Because pregnancy is thier "God's" way of punishing teenage girls for being "sluts".

What. The. Shit?

Source - http://www.churchofreality. org/opinion/christian.htm

[purinpuff]

The Catholic church holds you responsible for your acts. That's why the Protestant offshoots think themselves so revolutionary. They say that the truth is that only being saved saves you, since there's nothing you could do that could please God.

In religion class, I was taught that humans are to be the stewards of the earth. This is using and treating God's creation correctly, and taking care of it.

I think I said this before, but pope whoever wanted to pick an "easy" world issue to speak about, so, instead of picking nuclear war, he picked birth control.

[J.L.R.]

You know, I think you need to go and read a Bible, because all of that stuff you said is just crap. Look honestly, Christianity, isn't the enemy of this world! We all know it's Microsoft, but hey...

Actually Ender you are wrong on most of what you've said. Evolution relieves man of responsibility, TRUE Christian doctrin places his entire nature in his own hands. If Christians say otherwise, then they don't know the Bible. Sad fact is, most Christian that I know, don't even read the Bible...and they call themselves Christians... I smile, I like what the Apostle Paul called them, "dogs." Fitting really...

A true church is not an organization, but an organism. In my church, we are a family, and in a strange way, this family of a church, is almost like a wolf pack. Every member has a job, every member has a responsibility. When one member is down, the others boost them up. What effects one member effects us all. It is a deep and profound relationship, for we are one body in Christ and through Christ.

God says, "The wages of sin is death." and so it is. You reap what you so. We, being true Christians, and not the role players, don't believe it is wrong to have sex! Just after you are married, but we have a WHY, and I will tell you...
Sex is a sacred thing, because it ultimately, how we survive. With out sex, we would dwindle down to nothing. Christianity, when tought right, teaches that, since this act of procreation is so sacred, that right should only be held with the one you love, and you should love that one, before you are willing to have sex. Love first, sex later. My Grandfather was a marrage councilor for years. Most of the cases of broken homes, were because the married couple, had relations before marriage, and it makes since. Once that sex wow was gone, so was their marrage. If people would only have one sex partner for the rest of their life, this would also slow the spread of sexually transmitted diseases.
Abortion is wrong because, it is not a choice, but an excuse. People want to do whatever, with out the responsibilities that are included. I know a lot of people like that. They blow all their money and charge large amounts on their credit cards, never thinking that someday they are going to have to pay. You reap what you sow. You smoke heavy, chances are you have a greater chance of getting cancer, and it isn't the cig companies fault, it is your own. You drink and drive, chances are you are going to get into a wreck and kill someone or yourself. You over eat, you are going to get fat, and that isn't the fast food companies fault.
Humanity wants to do whatever they want with out the responsibility, but that isn't so. You go out and screw everything in sight, chances are you are going to get a disease or pregnant. Who's fault is that?
How can we give two counts of murder to a man that kills his wife and an unborn child, and yet murder unborn children everyday, because they aren't born?

So, if you have any questions about Christianity, ask me, and I, Lord Willing, will give you an answer.

There is no dark side to Christianity. The only dark thing on this earth, is that of man's heart.

[girlXN]

Christian extremists (like the chick idiots) are just as dangerous and manipulative as any other kind of religious extremist. I think the point is that you have to realize that they're EXTREMISTS. dangerous, manipulative, hateful extremists....

right?!

[Darken]

Unfortunatelly, stories like these will exist as long as there are people to tell them and people to believe them. This is not a real problem. Whenever an idea exists, there will always be an anti-idea to that, and the exegets of this last one will always try to prove how wrong is our idea and what a clear light path they have found in the opposite dirrection. We are all used to that.

But when it comes to homosexuality and deviant acts such as crime, drugs and all the 'cool' things that drive our society mad, there should really be a motive of concern.
I am sure most of you guys/gals are young (<25), but I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't really enjoy to see your kid living in a world of drug addicts and homosexuals that drive 'gay parades' all around, fucking in public shitholes and most important, carrying on the death virus.
I'm also sure many may feel offended. Some could approve my point of view. It's just like the idea and non-idea thing.

...in Darkness/in Light...

PS. Oh, and I am definetly NOT Christian. I addhere to the Pagan way.

[J.L.R.]

Christian extremists (like the chick idiots) are just as dangerous and manipulative as any other kind of religious extremist. I think the point is that you have to realize that they're EXTREMISTS. dangerous, manipulative, hateful extremists....

right?!

No wrong...

Chick uses Biblical scripture to back what he says. On Christian fundementalism he is correct, however, and my big gripe with him is, that he doesn't explain the WHY of the matter. A lot of Christians will go around and say GOD SAID SO! Type of things, but they never seem to consider the "Why did God say so?" It is in the Bible. God didn't create stupid laws with out reason. Only people do that. Just because someone says it is wrong to do something, that doesn't make them an extremist. If that was the case, then almost everybody here would be considered an extremist.

An extremist is a person who doesn't care about the religion they profess they are in. All they care about is POWER. Like the Taliban, or the pre-Great Awakening, Roman Catholic Church. In both cases these people took religious ideals out of context, and purposely used them to control people's minds, and thus ended up murdering hundreds of thousands of innocents.

Chick isn't dangerous. You simply don't like what he says. However, if he had gone into more detail as to the why of the matter, I feel his reasoning would be better understood.

Look I know there are dumb Christians out there who like to quote one or two scriptures or love to chase poor Zen around and fire tracks at the poor ulf as he's happily trotting down the street, and these Christians forget that the center of our Faith is Love. If one truly loves those he or she is witnessing too, they will consider the why and the person. Everybody has feelings, no matter how off you think their reasoning is.
To me the greatest witness in a Christian's life is, themselves. However, in order for that to be true, that Christian has to live the life they profess, and I think that is where a lot of these people fall. I personally know of a few people who call themselves Christians, and they act all holy during a church service, but inwardly they are rotten to the core, and are the most evil people you could ever meet. We say these people have Christianity in the head, but not in the heart. They like the feeling of being in the big services, and being religious, but Christianity isn't about big services, religious ceremonies ect, Christianity is about the singular person, and their stand with God.

[girlXN]

"Just because someone says it is wrong to do something, that doesn't make them an extremist. If that was the case, then almost everybody here would be considered an extremist."

that's not why I'd consider chick an extremist; i'd be perfectly happy if he were saying something that i just didn't agree with. i'm not happy because he takes a religion of hope and love and joy and twists it out of context to be a religion that causes fear in people who aren't exactly like him. God is the God of the whole world, not just a bunch of chick clones. Chick is an extremist because he distorts scripture and religious practices to fit his agenda...just like the Taliban. Look at those things again and tell me if they are really produced in love...please.



"Chick isn't dangerous. You simply don't like what he says."
i don't like what a lot of people say, that doesn't make them dangerous. Chick is dangerous because he is reaching millions of people with his brand of Christianity that is not consistent with the explicit or implicit message of Christ.





"Everybody has feelings, no matter how off you think their reasoning is."
and contrary with what Chick claims, God is the God of all of them. Someone doesn't have to look like Chick to claim the promises of God.


"To me the greatest witness in a Christian's life is, themselves. However, in order for that to be true, that Christian has to live the life they profess, and I think that is where a lot of these people fall."
I completely agree. however, your life as a Christian is not bound up in the things in those comic books.

"I personally know of a few people who call themselves Christians, and they act all holy during a church service, but inwardly they are rotten to the core, and are the most evil people you could ever meet."
And still God loves them and Christ died for them. Where do you get off saying they're not good enough?!?!?

"Christianity is about the singular person, and their stand with God.[/QUOTE]"
Christianity is also about living as the "body of Christ," you can't be Christian if you don't consider your community. Chick tries to scare and manipulate the community rather than guide the community in love.

[Hellcat]

Well guys. I've read the christian messages and I find it all very interesting. I'm not christian myself, but I have some friends who are, some are more christian than others and some of them just live under the umberella being everyway non-christian. So anyway everyone has their own belief system and their own set of morals- some are self created morals, others may be morals that have been forewritten. We can sit here until we are blue in the face arguing the toss over the write and wrong of religion but at the end of the day, if someone has a strong belief in something then there aren't a damn thing we can do about it, and in all honesty as long as they aren't hurting anyone else then I'm quite content to tolerate anyones beliefs. If blokes wanna go roger each other up the ass hole thats fine with me, so long as both parties have consented and I don't have to sit around and watch. If Drug users want to pump their bodies full of shite, thats cool with me too, in fact lets sit them in a big room packed full of every drug their brains desire, maybe we can watch what happens through a window. They wanna do it, They belive its right, let them do it. If two religious folks wanna wage war with each other over the true faith, as long as all parties consent let them do it- It might be fun to watch them all blow themselves to the God they hold so highly, they believe in it let them do it. Unfortunately drug users and religious wars are probably some of the biggest pains in the arses going. Neither of these can achieve a goal without involving innocent people. How many innocent people- men, women and children alike are killed in war because two sides solemnly believe they are right, not just religious war, but any war. I'm not suggesting war is right or wrong, but I do think its a damned waste of time energy and lives oh yeah and money. Honestly what is the point in blowing each other to kingdom come when it woul dbe much easier to pick the strongest person from each side and have them arm wrestle- nobody gets killed, a bit of energy is wasted and all it costs is the price of an flight ticket.THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE. How many drug users are initially intised into taking drugs by some money grabbing dealer- granted every person is entitled to decide whether or not to pump their bodies full of crap and there's no way of defending those people who take drugs, but I've got a strong suspicion that money plays a hell of a strong part in it...yes it does- yep, so drug users need to feed their habit, they quickly run out of funds so they turn to alternative means. As with the deaklers, adicts pray on those weaker than themselves. Drug dealers pray on those of weak mind, and addicts pray on those of weak body- namely oaps, houses, all those things that can't fight back. So what do we do- line up all the dealers and shoot the SOBS. THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE. stick the users in a drug house and let them OD on any drug of their choice.THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE. Problem solved (better line up the manufacturers of the drugs to-obviously they have no morals either). On the other hand the manufacturers could well be poor folk across the pond scraping a living together to feed there families, therefore it is rigght to create drugs for those who WANT to use them Anyway there was a point to all this waffling... bugger i forget what it was...bear with me I'bve been up all night...
The point is....
gawd what was it now....fuck its gone...

*There is no such thing as right or wrong in this world- only those that you create by your own belief

DISCLAIMER: The content of the above message may or may not be true to my opion/belief. This subject matter was merely used to make a point. The point is marked with an astrix

[Quicksilver]

Just a few points that I had to make...

1. God only "inspired" the writing of the bible.. many "religous" (pff..) and "holy" (again pff...) members of the church (which at that time was CATHOLIC... took certain liberties in the text... to make it easier to keep the reins on the people of the time... not only then, but even know the common person is dumb enough to do whatever their religious leaders tell them...

2. George Carlin put it best when he said "Thou shall not kill...well, the church hasn't really had a hard time ignoring that rule there.. Hell.. more people have been killed in the name of god than anything! Just look at the crusades, the inqusition, salem witch trails, the palastine/ israel problem, and the whole 9/11 insident."

That pretty much all for know.. I just wanted to post a little bit.. and stir the sespool!

[Xzengrim]

It is also important to note that the bible was originally written in Aramaeic and Hebrew. It was then translated to Greek, then to Latin, and then to English. Within each language, there were several printings, several different collections, and several versions. Before the king James version of the bible, there were at LEAST five preceeding bibles in England alone.

It is a fact that the bible you read is not the word of God (since God most definitely didn't speak it in modern English). After that, it is also unlikely that you have a verbatim translation.

The basic message is still there. But you are not reading a transcript of the Almighty's conversations with humanity.

[Hellcat]

That would explain why it doesn't make much sense to me ;)

[Nightmare GenoReaper]

as to have getting on topic

DUH! :banghead: , MORE PEOPLE HAVE DIED IN THE NAME OF GOD THAN ANYTHING ELSE!

All because they gave the wrong answer to the god question

"Do you believe in God?"
"No" poof, dead

"Do you belive in God?"
"Yes"
"Do you belive in my god?"
"No" poof dead
"My god has a bigger dick then your god!" :D

that basically how people died, in a "nut" shell :beerchug:

[DarkWolf]

But when it comes to homosexuality and deviant acts such as crime

There's nothing wrong in homosexuality, it is a preference. Don't discriminate for a preference or you might as well go discriminate people for their choice in coffee.

Anyway, personally I don't like christianity, but that too is a preference and people can believe whatever they want.

I have issues from Christianity's past, but, that's my choice, my problem. It doesn't mean every christian is the same.

I just don't like the whole "sheep" thing, how Jesus is the shepard and his followers are his flock et cetera.

Personally, I live my life by living it, and there may be a God up there.. I just don't care.

[LV426]

But when it comes to homosexuality and deviant acts such as crime, drugs and all the 'cool' things that drive our society mad, there should really be a motive of concern.
I am sure most of you guys/gals are young (<25), but I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't really enjoy to see your kid living in a world of drug addicts and homosexuals that drive 'gay parades' all around, fucking in public shitholes and most important, carrying on the death virus.
I'm also sure many may feel offended. Some could approve my point of view. It's just like the idea and non-idea thing.

...in Darkness/in Light...

PS. Oh, and I am definetly NOT Christian. I addhere to the Pagan way.

Excuse me but my FATHER is gay. I don't know what kind of homosexuals you know but I have never seen driving gay parades all around and fucking in public shitholes. And what is this "carrying on the Death Virus?" You do realize that Aids is not restricted to homosexuals right? That is has been passed around to those of all sexual orientation and not neccesarily through sex. Who are you to call homosexuality a deviant behavior? Even animals have homosexual tendencies so before you bark about deviants maybe you should pull your head out of your ass. I'm sure there are disturbing people who happen to be homosexual but there are also disturbing people who are heterosexual as well. I can't see how you can possibly compare a habitual drug user and criminal to a homosexual. That's utterly absurd. You have devoured alll that christian anti-homosexual propaganda with a shovel. Learn to think for yourself or remove your genes from the pool. Pagan or Christian you really are a sad individual.

[purinpuff]

I am sure most of you guys/gals are young (<25), but I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't really enjoy to see your kid living in a world of drug addicts and homosexuals that drive 'gay parades' all around, fucking in public shitholes and most important, carrying on the death virus.

My (heterosexual) dad certainly wasn't troubled by it. In fact, he took me to the parades O_o. Too noisy, if you ask me. Way too noisy.

[Wraywolf]

Plus, there are some homosexuals that are smart and funny and cool and sexy and smart and cute and philosophic and smart!

Like me! Booyah. Somewhat. *Cough*

What am I doing in this closet and how do I get out?

Furthermore, this isn’t really a “preference”. It is actually very, very hard for me to be attracted to a woman in a sexual respect. When I started puberty, my “preference” shifted from women to men periodically, however same sex attraction has always been the strongest for me. Just dispelling the myths that some guys choose there preference to be different or outlandish.

Also, denial was Uber fun!

[Totah Sam]

Plus, there are some homosexuals that are smart and funny and cool and sexy and smart and cute and philosophic and smart!

Like me! Booyah. Somewhat. *Cough*

What am I doing in this closet and how do I get out?

*hands over the keys*


dude... stay away from breeders.. they keep lockin' ya back up again. ;)

[Xzengrim]

Lycanthropic Howl... if your father's a homosexual, how in the world did you get here?

In that vein, I believe that homosexuality is a form of mental illness. But it is largely harmless, and we've got bigger problems to deal with first... so I really don't care. As long as they stay away from me, I'll be fine.

Now to take care of business:
I point my finger at Wraywolf and laugh Nelson Muntz-style (I feel no enmity for him; just because)
They ought to stuff Elton John back in the closet. He kicked ass before they let him do whatever he wanted.
Buster Wilde is friggin awesome.

That ought to do it for now.

[Final_wolf]

Are you gay Wraywolf?

[purinpuff]

In that vein, I believe that homosexuality is a form of mental illness. But it is largely harmless, and we've got bigger problems to deal with first... so I really don't care. As long as they stay away from me, I'll be fine.


Heehee! Now that's the best way to look at something you consider a mental illness! After all, lots of us have clinical depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, and all sorts of things wrong with us, and we live just fine... relatively speaking.

[Totah Sam]

Are you gay Wraywolf?

does it really matter? :p


being gay is not a mental illness. At the most, it's a behavorial disorder. Not a mental illness.

[LV426]

I'm a god, how else?

[ArcaneWolf]

Homosexualality is a natural phenomenion. It often occurs in populations of animals where they're exceeding their carrying capacity (translation- overpopulation). And yes I'm insinuating exactly what you're thinking I'm insinuating about the human race. I have no problem with homosexuals, if I did I would have to throw out all my Judas Priest albums :( (I love "Stained Class" ;) )

Also I'd like to note that almost the entire soldier population of Sparta was homosexual (one of the greastest known civilization of warriors). They only got married at 30 for the purpose of having offspring.

[Wraywolf]

Yes I am, Final Wolf. I'm as gay as you are stupid, which means I put on lipstick, paint my nails and consider "Seashell" a color.

Yes, I am mentaly touched, how else could I be so smrat. I mean, smart.

And I don't feel offended when people piont and laugh like Grim does, his mocking carries no malice and plus, he's a wicked awesome person that I would never hit on becuse I respect him to much.

I am here, I am Weer, get used to it!

Now off I go to yell "Fabulous" at random passer-bys.

[Totah Sam]

*has mental flashback of gay friends screaming at the top of their lungs in Salt Lake City, "you got fries with that shake?"*

ahhh.. the good ol' days. :D

[Sass]

I was reading an article in the woman's journal (I think that was the magazine.). Anyway it had Kelly Ripa on the front, and I'm utterly confused by her jump in to fame and fortune, so I started reading the magazine.. In it there was an article, the writer who was raised Jewish but married a Christian was discussing how and why she hadn't decided how to raise her two sons of three years of age. She's decidedly agnostic. She said in the article that she hadn't decided upon a religion yet because she saw both the hypocrisy and the good deeds equal done in both religions.
I happen to agree with the journalist. Religion is just a means of segregation. There is no bright side to Christianity or any other religion, for every one person you feel connected with because of your religious choices there are two you feel disconnected from for the same reasons.
On another note, my boyfriend's parents are fanatical christians. Heh, backwoods, Arkansas Christians, both raised on hypocrisy and family values like not having sex until you're married. Upon finding my boyfriend and I sleeping, under different blankets on the floor of my bedroom his mother decided I was the antichrist, and I've been corrupting her son throughout the 7 months we've been seeing eachother. Hypocrisy is a common sentiment in their culture; I think it's become one of those things, it's not wrong unless you know it's wrong.

[Xzengrim]

Here is the test to see whether you're gay or not:

Mocha
Cranberry
Salmon
Saffron

Are these things colors... or foods?

[Kirin Fenrir]

Back the hell off of Wraywolf, you sorry excuse for skin. *coughs*

Anyway, moving on, my general view on homosexuality is that yes, it's perfectly natural. Not only have we seen it in the animal kindom (Dolphins primarilly) but think about it this way:

If a species was becoming drastically overpopulated despite all opposition, would it not make sense for a large porportion of the populace to eventually not want to procrate anymore? Hence...they're physically drawn to the sex they can't have children with.

I'm personnaly not homosexual, but I say the more gay men the better. It makes the odds for all us straight men that much better.

:beerchug:

[LV426]

Well this has been fun, however I am going to make this little statement just so that everyone is clear and no one can complain later if I delete their threads.

You can disagree with the way someone lives. However, I will not tolerate hateful and derogatory comments made at other members because you disagree with their lifestyle.

You can say that you disagree, you can say why you disagree, but you are not allowed to call them names and verbally mistreat them. UNLESS, and this is my my personal favorite, unless the person has made such an inane statement that their mental faculties are in question. So basically if you act stupid and make stupid comments, you are fair game.

[truelife]

None of you know what you are talking about. 1st of all no animal can be gay because it goes against nature and God. 2nd ya'll all need Jesus because Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one can come to the father except through me."He died for all of your sins so you can get into heaven and not go to hell to be tourture forever. John 3:16,"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever belives in him shall not perish but have everlasting life." Do you know where you would go if you died right now?

[Final_wolf]

THANK YOU TRUELIFE. Finally someone knows where i am coming from. He is 100% right. In another thread in the Science forum they are trying to figure out where the moon came from. I tried to tell them from God but there all a bunch of idiots.

[Kirin Fenrir]

Then someone forgot to tell the dolphins. Oh, and lions. Most species of apes...any more I'm missing, Lycan?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312192398/103-8827632-9656666?v=glance

[Totah Sam]

Here is the test to see whether you're gay or not:

Mocha
Cranberry
Salmon
Saffron

Are these things colors... or foods?


sounds like a fancy meal to me. :p

[Beneha'Elohim]

sounds like a fancy meal to me. :p
Ha! A great meal to me as well! The comical thing about this entire thread is that we all have our beliefs and opinions, born from free will baby! The Most High God that i serve allows us freedom of choice...life or death..blessing or the curse...but it is up to you.Otherwise, we are just Automatons..I agree that most christians are hypocritical...on the one hand.. "Love your neighbor"..(as long as he or she is of the correct race, economic class, not homosexual and bathes with some regularity.) We send missionaries to Africa..but would faint if a black person enters our church..we bomb abortion clinics, spit on homos..Shoot.. at one point even dug up dead Jews in Europe, if they couldn't prove they were not heretics, took their lands, possesions, whatever.Bottom line in my book..Man will always be hypocritical...murde rous..liars..cheats. .people will always let you down..hurt you..mock you..crucify you..Men will always let you down.. Christ will never let you down!I'm not talking some religious crap..i'm talking personal relationship with the savior!Thats all God wants..relationship. .with you..Men rank sin.. Rank one above another, God doesn't! God looks at homosexuality, gluttony, stealing..you name it.. as the same thing..Sin! The Church you see today..is Nothing like it's meant to be..the Jesus i serve was never religious..He is revolutionary!Oh yea..don't really know why i even came to this website..used to really dig good werewolf flics..hope none of you think you are a shapeshifter!?..the only thing you have transformed is a hamburger to a cheeseburger.. most probably!? You want supernatural terror!? The Book of Enoch..Quoted in the book of Jude..is an interesting read!Seems the early church considered it God's Word...It descibes the Genesis 6 "Sons of God", that left their 1st estate or "plane of existance". Fallen angels who mated with Earth's women..creating the Nephilim or giants..taught mankind witchcraft, working of metals, warfare, cannabilism..Josephu s for all you brilliant Shapeshifters, claims the skeletons of these giants were on display in Jerusalem even in time of Jesus.Mythology..Her cules and all that stuff has a grain of truth to it.God had to flood the earth to preserve a bloodline for Messiah to be born into. Weird thing is..Jesus said in Matt 24:37.."But as the days of Noah WERE, so also WILL the coming of the Son of Man be." Paul said in Corinthians "women need a covering (marriage) because of the angels."...talking about the same event Christ talked about.. the coming demonic invasion of our sphere of existence...AAAAHHWO OOO!!!!!

[Wraywolf]

*holds up his hands and twiddels his fingers*

Dance puppets, dance!

I love attention.

Anyway, I think i'm lucky. A bounus to homosexuality is that i won't have to deal with those walking enigmas know as women.

[Final_wolf]

how long have you been gay Wraywolf?

[Wraywolf]

Since I hit puberty. Look at my post on the previous page, all the details are there.

Also, you being a werewolf, doesn't that make you an unholy entity in the eyes of god? Just asking.

[Ender]

Idiot?

Who lives in fear their whole life of a fictitious character from a book written, and re-written probibly a dozen times? For all we know, the character known as 'jesus' was initially a homosexual himself, and was rewritten into a heterosexual.

ha Gives new meaning to my bumper-sticker: "Jesus ate my taco!" - Oh theres a visual :D


Saffron, never heard of it. I know the other ones as colors - I'm off to google it.

[Final_wolf]

i cant help it if i was born into it right?

[Ender]

i cant help it if i was born into it right?

What are you referring to?

[Final_wolf]

If i am born a werewolf, i cant help it right?

[Wraywolf]

Well, a demon IS a demon, weather you can help it or not, although I think you can still be saved if you have never tasted human blood.

*Nudges Ender* Just play along.

[Final_wolf]

perhaps...........*k icks Ender*

[Ender]

Just play along.

No.


He referred to a good amount of intelligent members as "idiots", worst of all he referred to me as an idiot. Now, I'm all for setting world records, however, when this maladroit reaches the height of hypocrisy by addressing others and myself as "idiots", then makes 'hateful comments regarding sexual preference' to people, I will not 'play along'.

[Final_wolf]

If you do not know the truth of where the moon and all other things come from, then you are an idiot. I am not afraid to speak my mind.

[Wraywolf]

Ah, I was just saying play along about the "being a p-shifting werewolf" thing, but okay. :P

Werewolves are unnatural and against god, there again, so is about 80% of modern culture. The Bible has failed to keep up with the times.

You are allowed to think of me as being a sinner, but I don't think you have right to name call. What with being an actual DEMON.

And can I be blamed as well? I was born into homosexuality. You can’t just wake up and say “Blimey, I find men attractive!” It’s something you are born with, like your werewolf-isum.

[Final_wolf]

ok, but u also have no right to call me stupid..... now do you. MUWHAHAHHAHA

[Wraywolf]

Your right. But did you not call Ender and many other's Idiots? I was just speaking my mind, just like you.

[Ender]

If you do not know the truth of where the moon and all other things come from, then you are an idiot. First of all, this isn't fair, my using your own posts and all...

Lets disect that quote of yours, shall we?

If you do not know the truth of where the moon and all other things come from
Which translates to: "People who are not aware of, because they lack proof, have theories with 'holes' in them, or are generaly un-educated on a subject matter."

Ok? Lets continue then-

then you are an idiot. ahHA! So, you're calling everyone in existance, of reality an 'idiot'? You would have to be, after taking into consideration that no mortal being* can possibly know 'the truth' to how and where 'everything' came into existance. Quite the ballsy move my foolish bible-thumpin' acquaintance.

*I'm sure Lycanthropichowl will claim to. :p

[Final_wolf]

Lycanthropichowl agrees to everything. I am saying that people who don't believe God made the moon are idiots. Not everyone is an idiot. Break that one down.

[Ender]

No need to, you and others should be able to see what you're saying and how rediculous it is.

Next you'll be saying 'The Four HorseMen' exist. Lay off the fiction guy, you're going to delute your entire grasp on reality.

[Kirin Fenrir]

Lycanthropichowl agrees to everything. I am saying that people who don't believe God made the moon are idiots. Not everyone is an idiot. Break that one down.

Translation: "I am an ignorant person that believes anyone who ever disagrees with me in any context is a dumbass."

*nods* Alright, that's broken down. Anything else I can help you with?

[Hellcat]

sounds like a fancy meal to me. :p


Ditto- cranberry is only a colour when you spill it down the front of a favourite white top :D

[Hellcat]

Translation: "I am an ignorant person that believes anyone who ever disagrees with me in any context is a dumbass."

*nods* Alright, that's broken down. Anything else I can help you with?


LOL


Gees Final_wolf EVERYONE knows the moon is made of cheese. It got there as the story goes:


Hey diddle diddle the cat did a piddle, the cow jumped over the spoon, the little dog laughed to see such fun and cow's milk turned into the moon. (incidently milk has a tendancy to go cheesy when its beem hanging around for a while- but then so have my jokes):D

[Final_wolf]

ok..... Ender prove me a theory that is correct then....

[LV426]

Sorry guys, I am a young god and wasn't around for the moon beginning. Couldn't tell you if I knew you anyway because then I would have to kill you.


I believe in the other forum the question was asked, "How do you know the Bible is Fiction?"

My answer to this is I know it is fiction because

A. Man has written and rewritten it to suit his own purpose, especially those in positions of power.

B. God did not reveal himself to all of the living people, only to those that were in one specific area.

C. The Bible is listed in the fiction section of the library.

Now then since no one was actually there to see the moon created then, I can't see why Final Wolf or the other christian fanatics that claim god created the moon thinks everyone who doesn't agree is stupid. I mean what if it was Jehovah, or Buddha, or Odin, or even Zeus? I mean how do you know which god is the right one because if you read all of the pamphlets and tablets from the areas of those religions, they all claim to be a god.

Yes I know your religion claims that there is only one god but again, man wrote that book not a god.


Now I can see where religion and in specific, christianity came intyo existance, there are some good moral stories in the Bible and some of the lessons that Jesus was supposed to have preached were in fact very good rules to live by. However, if you will notice, God in the Old Testament would rather smite humans than look at them and the only way that the ministers and priests could even retain a congregation was to create a kinder and more loving god that gave his son up to the angry mob so they could sacrifice him.

Does anyone see anything wrong with this? Let's say that Jesus was real, I do believe he existed, and I think he was probably a very charismatic man and a very kind man that thought he was doing the right thing. His parents told him he was the son of this omnipotent being and he decided that he should spread the word and teach people how to be good to one another. Sure he was good, and he tried to bring people together, but people, humans, are incapable of peace for long periods of time, they were created with an inherent need to destroy. So Jesus was killed and as he died he professed his belief in his god and that it was god's will that he die.

Nice story, but really rather encourages human sacrifice. Then again there are several verses where god asks for human sacrifice to him. Hmm not so civilized is the christian religion.

I shall tell all of you who are calling all of us who do not believe in your god, if you follow your own religion then you know that humans were born with free will. The right to choose whatever path we want no matter where it takes us. God also tells you that only God has the power to judge and to take another person's life and cast judgement on it and them is a sin. So by calling all of us idiots you have greatly sinned, perhaps you should go pray for forgiveness.

[Nightmare GenoReaper]

Homosexuality.....th is is what Plato meant when he said too much freedom is bad thing :banghead: -_-

History repeats itself once again!

[Final_wolf]

Better not. Tell me in the Bible where it calls for human sacrifice.

[LV426]

Human Sacrifice in the Old Testament

1. Leviticus 27:28-29 (RSV)

But no devoted thing that a man devotes to the LORD, of anything that he has, whether of man or beast, or of his inherited field, shall be sold or redeemed; every devoted thing is most holy to the LORD. No one devoted, who is to be utterly destroyed from among men, shall be ransomed; he shall be put to death.


2. Exodus 22:29-30

You must give me the firstborn of your sons. Do the same with your cattle and your sheep. Let them stay with their mothers for seven days, but give them to me on the eighth day.


3. Joshua 6:21

They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it - men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.


4. Numbers 31:25-30, 40-41 (NKJV)

Now the LORD spoke to Moses, saying: "Count up the plunder that was taken - of man and beast - you and Eleazar the priest and the chief fathers of the congregation; and divide the plunder into two parts, between those who took part in the war, who went out to battle, and all the congregation. And levy a tribute for the LORD on the men of war who went out to battle: one of every five hundred of the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep; take it from their half, and give it to Eleazar the priest as a heave offering to the LORD. And from the children of Israel's half you shall take one of every fifty, drawn from the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep, from all the livestock, and give them to the Levites who keep charge of the tabernacle of the LORD."

The persons were sixteen thousand, of which the LORD's tribute was thirty-two persons. So Moses gave the tribute which was the LORD's heave offering to Eleazar the priest, as the LORD commanded Moses.


5. Genesis 22:2

Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."


6. Judges 11:30-39

And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD: "If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the LORD gave them into his hands. He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.

When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, "Oh! My daughter! You have made me miserable and wretched, because I have made a vow to the LORD that I cannot break."

"My father," she replied, "you have given your word to the LORD. Do to me just as you promised, now that the LORD has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. But grant me this one request," she said. "Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry."

"You may go," he said. And he let her go for two months. She and the girls went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. After the two months, she returned to her father and he did to her as he had vowed.

[Final_wolf]

hmmm.... Is that the King James version?

[Kirin Fenrir]

...

King James re-worked the New Testiment.

Boy claims to be a devout Christian and doesn't even know his bibles. :rolleyes:

[Final_wolf]

hmmm, I am a Christian, but i don't know the Bible because i have never read them. What religion are yo anyways Kirrinandsn Fenitosaworir or whatever that odd name is.

[lordragoon]

Can we just accept the Bible as either pure or dilute fiction? After all, even if god did drop down, he (or she or it) would have had to use really short words and small sentences. I don't think someone could understand the Big Bang theory a couple thousand years ago - it's taken for granted today - and I don't think anyone today could understand what forces would be required for a God to create a solar system. Now, can we accept that? Even if there is a God that created the world, let's just admit that we aren't going to get a blueprint of it.
Also, I'll admit that some of the Bible is true - many events have been proven. I still don't believe the rest, but that's just me.

LycanthropicHowl... you took a few of those out of context a bit, didn't you? Most are all destroy the infidels, although I don't remember example number 4. And number 5 and 6 were be careful what you say - didn't 5 end out with only a goat getting killed?

[J.L.R.]

Not trying to start an alreay dubious debate, but the Bible and its text is NOT Fiction. Now while you believe or disbelieve in God is irrelevent, the events the Bible says happened, did happen. Watch the Discov...er sorry the Science Channel. To say the Bible is pure fiction, is just like saying your history books are lies. Even though I believe most science books are filled with them, but that is just me.

Honestly people, these complaints about Christianity this and that, have really nothing to do with the true Christian doctrin, but more or less the abuse of it, by those, who don't seek nor want God's ways, but more or less want power. That is human nature.

We all can testify to man's darker more dubious ways. The point is this post is never going to go anywhere because everyone simply rants about this, rants about that.

Here is a good lesson for both Christians and non-Christians alike.

Treat people the way you want to be treated. Respect all humankind and what they believe. Now, that doesn't mean you have to agree, and it doesn't mean you have to like it, but it does mean that you shouldn't go bashing people just because you don't like something they believe. If it is wrong, give them a reason, and make it a good one, and not some hear say dumb talk.

For all Christians, STUDY the Bible and KNOW what it says. Many many many Christians have made stupid mistakes because they've taken things out of context. The Bible has to be, and can only be, taken as a whole. Would you get the full understanding out of a movie, if you only watched 10% of it. (although there are movies I had wished I'd only watched 10%)... Would you understand a novel if you only read the last chapter...NO of course not.

The key here is UNDERSTANDING and WE all need to do more of it.

So, if you have a complaint go to the person or persons causing it and get it resolved. End of story...

Now I gotta get back to writing, so I can make you Lycan's famous. :)

[LV426]

Can we just accept the Bible as either pure or dilute fiction? After all, even if god did drop down, he (or she or it) would have had to use really short words and small sentences. I don't think someone could understand the Big Bang theory a couple thousand years ago - it's taken for granted today - and I don't think anyone today could understand what forces would be required for a God to create a solar system. Now, can we accept that? Even if there is a God that created the world, let's just admit that we aren't going to get a blueprint of it.
Also, I'll admit that some of the Bible is true - many events have been proven. I still don't believe the rest, but that's just me.

LycanthropicHowl... you took a few of those out of context a bit, didn't you? Most are all destroy the infidels, although I don't remember example number 4. And number 5 and 6 were be careful what you say - didn't 5 end out with only a goat getting killed?

It may be destroying infidels but it's asking for human death to show faith to god, hence the sacrifice part.

And yes 5. ended up with a ram being provided at the last minute, whether or not that was provided by god or just pure luck for the sacrifice one may never know.

Of course I did leave out the biggest statement of human sacrifice in the Bible. Jesus. He was sacrificed in the name of god, supposedly for human sins.




(As a side note as I was writing this I had 2 people from the local Baptist church show up and ask me to come to worship. Ah how I love terrorizing them. When will they learn that the only god I worship is me?)

[Final_wolf]

You think your a god?

[LV426]

You think your a god?
Er no, I KNOW I am a god. See my title? Supreme Being, that is me!

[Final_wolf]

U wish. Tell me why u r a god and prove it.

[Xzengrim]

Not to poke God with a stick, but:

"They've got God on their side. All we've got is logic and reason."

[LV426]

My existence is proof enough for me, besides I don't care if you believe in me, you are inferior.

[Final_wolf]

And you are a liar. But anyways, how long have you been around?

[Xzengrim]

Lycanthropic Howl... surely you realize how sensationalistic claiming to be a deity is. It's not something you can just SAY and not expect backlash. The more outrageous your claim, the more proof you have to put up in order to avoid taking crap from people.

But anyway, what are you the deity of? How do you know this to be true? Are there others like you? Why are you here? Do you have any worshippers? Or a temple?

That, and it's just plain mean to call people inferior. ...Even if it IS Final_Wolf. :D

[Final_wolf]

hehehehehehhehehe:D

[LV426]

Lycanthropic Howl... surely you realize how sensationalistic claiming to be a deity is. It's not something you can just SAY and not expect backlash. The more outrageous your claim, the more proof you have to put up in order to avoid taking crap from people.

But anyway, what are you the deity of? How do you know this to be true? Are there others like you? Why are you here? Do you have any worshippers? Or a temple?

That, and it's just plain mean to call people inferior. ...Even if it IS Final_Wolf. :D

Ah but you see Grim I am not worried about backlash, especially from Final Wolf. I'm not a god of anything, just a god, and I don't cultivate a herd, I mean worshippers, they are too needy, always asking me for things. Although I am pretty sure my cat worships me, especially when I have the thumbs to open the can of cat food. He is pure adoration at those times. In fact for him it is like I perform a miracle everyday.

Oh and Final Wolf, I could call you a liar too, but I chose just not to believe your god exists. What a hateful little boy you are. Doesn't sound very christian to me.

[J.L.R.]

Ah but you see Grim I am not worried about backlash, especially from Final Wolf. I'm not a god of anything, just a god, and I don't cultivate a herd, I mean worshippers, they are too needy, always asking me for things. Although I am pretty sure my cat worships me, especially when I have the thumbs to open the can of cat food. He is pure adoration at those times. In fact for him it is like I perform a miracle everyday.

Oh and Final Wolf, I could call you a liar too, but I chose just not to believe your god exists. What a hateful little boy you are. Doesn't sound very christian to me.


Well I don't believe you exist. :D

Your posts just happen out of cultivated consciousness of nothingness. :)

OOOooo cat worshipers. Interesting. Has the cat built a shrine or anything?

I'm about to make my chickens firm believes, or they will be banished to chicken hell, aka, KFC.

[LV426]

Well I don't believe you exist. :D

Your posts just happen out of cultivated consciousness of nothingness. :)

OOOooo cat worshipers. Interesting. Has the cat built a shrine or anything?

I'm about to make my chickens firm believes, or they will be banished to chicken hell, aka, KFC.
You are perfectly allowed to believe or not to believe as you see fit, I won't smite you or anything.

[Beneha'Elohim]

1. Lev 27:28-29- This passage does not teach human sacrifice as you stated. Human sacrifices were forbidden per Ex 13:13;34:20 and Num 18:15. Parents were forbidden to sacrifice their children, Dt 12:30-31; Ps 106:37-38; Jer 7:31; Ezk 16:20-21. In your Lev passage the words "devoted thing" is the Hebrew word "Cherem" and refers to those doomed to death as in 1 Sam 15:21.In other words, anyone sentanced to death could not be bought off, he must be executed. From the death sentance there was no redemption or commutation.

2. Ex 22:29-30- This is not sacrifice. The first born son or male animal was considered holy unto the Lord, not to be sacrificed! Consider Luke 2:21-23, talking about the baby Jesus, " And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord;(As it is written in the law of the Lord,Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord) IE..your Ex 22:29-30.

3.Joshua 6:21- Were do you get sacrifice here? This was in the time of Israel's conquests and God's wrath against the total depravity of the Cannanites.This was an act of war, many times God commanded every living thing to be killed, including babies. Harsh reasoning, but baby Cannanites, Phillistines, Jebusites..ect grew into adult Cannanites, Phillistines..ect.Th is was also a type and shadow of sin in our lives, kill it when its a baby, it won't grow into maturity and kill you.

4. Judges 11:30-39- Her request was that she be given 2 months to mourn her perpetual virginity, she was not sacrificed but was rashly vowed to the Lord by her father to perpetual virginity in her service to the Lord. That in its self was a great sacrifice because the family name was completely cut off, she would have no part in bringing the Messiah into the world. She was to be devoted to the Tabernacle for service the rest of her life.

5. As for your Genesis account about the sacrifice of Isaac. Notice Gen 22:5- " I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you." (An evidence of Abe's faith) By testing Abe, God was able to say of him "now I know." We are all free-moral beings;we have a will. God was merely testing Abe's heart. God limits Himself to our own choices, it doesn't make Him any less omniscient, we must respond to Him in faith and of our own free-will. Isaac was promised to Abe, now God wanted to see who had Abe's heart, the promise or the Promisor! I believe that in Abe's mind, if he had carried out killing his son, ( of which an angel stopped him) He believed God would raise him from the dead!God instead saw Abe's heart, and provided a ram instead, thus we get the name Jehovah Jireh- the Lord will provide.

I can appreciate your use of Crosswalk.com, but don't ask baby christians doctrinal issues,it's annoying to watch christians that don't read their bibles try and blunder thru an answer! The posts on this thread are comical! I've not seen one person or furr-face if you prefer, that had a clue about Christ..God or anything relating to God. If your going to bust on Christ or God..at least know a microbe of what you are discussing! A point is so much easier for the gentle reader! It's also sadly funny that Jesus died and even loves the numb skull whose name escapes me who say's.."I'm better than Jesus!" Ohh the irony...You ever notice that nobody takes Buddah's name in vain!? Or any other diety that comes to mind?..Why should they...no shock value in a false god! Hmmmm...
PEACE


They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it - men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.


4. Numbers 31:25-30, 40-41 (NKJV)

Now the LORD spoke to Moses, saying: "Count up the plunder that was taken - of man and beast - you and Eleazar the priest and the chief fathers of the congregation; and divide the plunder into two parts, between those who took part in the war, who went out to battle, and all the congregation. And levy a tribute for the LORD on the men of war who went out to battle: one of every five hundred of the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep; take it from their half, and give it to Eleazar the priest as a heave offering to the LORD. And from the children of Israel's half you shall take one of every fifty, drawn from the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep, from all the livestock, and give them to the Levites who keep charge of the tabernacle of the LORD."

The persons were sixteen thousand, of which the LORD's tribute was thirty-two persons. So Moses gave the tribute which was the LORD's heave offering to Eleazar the priest, as the LORD commanded Moses.


5. Genesis 22:2

Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."


6. Judges 11:30-39

And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD: "If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the LORD gave them into his hands. He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.

When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, "Oh! My daughter! You have made me miserable and wretched, because I have made a vow to the LORD that I cannot break."

"My father," she replied, "you have given your word to the LORD. Do to me just as you promised, now that the LORD has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. But grant me this one request," she said. "Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry."

"You may go," he said. And he let her go for two months. She and the girls went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. After the two months, she returned to her father and he did to her as he had vowed.[/QUOTE]

[Beneha'Elohim]

1. Lev 27:28-29- This passage does not teach human sacrifice as you stated. Human sacrifices were forbidden per Ex 13:13;34:20 and Num 18:15. Parents were forbidden to sacrifice their children, Dt 12:30-31; Ps 106:37-38; Jer 7:31; Ezk 16:20-21. In your Lev passage the words "devoted thing" is the Hebrew word "Cherem" and refers to those doomed to death as in 1 Sam 15:21.In other words, anyone sentanced to death could not be bought off, he must be executed. From the death sentance there was no redemption or commutation.

2. Ex 22:29-30- This is not sacrifice. The first born son or male animal was considered holy unto the Lord, not to be sacrificed! Consider Luke 2:21-23, talking about the baby Jesus, " And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord;(As it is written in the law of the Lord,Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord) IE..your Ex 22:29-30.

3.Joshua 6:21- Were do you get sacrifice here? This was in the time of Israel's conquests and God's wrath against the total depravity of the Cannanites.This was an act of war, many times God commanded every living thing to be killed, including babies. Harsh reasoning, but baby Cannanites, Phillistines, Jebusites..ect grew into adult Cannanites, Phillistines..ect.Th is was also a type and shadow of sin in our lives, kill it when its a baby, it won't grow into maturity and kill you.

4. Judges 11:30-39- Her request was that she be given 2 months to mourn her perpetual virginity, she was not sacrificed but was rashly vowed to the Lord by her father to perpetual virginity in her service to the Lord. That in its self was a great sacrifice because the family name was completely cut off, she would have no part in bringing the Messiah into the world. She was to be devoted to the Tabernacle for service the rest of her life.

5. As for your Genesis account about the sacrifice of Isaac. Notice Gen 22:5- " I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you." (An evidence of Abe's faith) By testing Abe, God was able to say of him "now I know." We are all free-moral beings;we have a will. God was merely testing Abe's heart. God limits Himself to our own choices, it doesn't make Him any less omniscient, we must respond to Him in faith and of our own free-will. Isaac was promised to Abe, now God wanted to see who had Abe's heart, the promise or the Promisor! I believe that in Abe's mind, if he had carried out killing his son, ( of which an angel stopped him) He believed God would raise him from the dead!God instead saw Abe's heart, and provided a ram instead, thus we get the name Jehovah Jireh- the Lord will provide.

I can appreciate your use of Crosswalk.com, but don't ask baby christians doctrinal issues,it's annoying to watch christians that don't read their bibles try and blunder thru an answer! The posts on this thread are comical! I've not seen one person or furr-face if you prefer, that had a clue about Christ..God or anything relating to God. If your going to bust on Christ or God..at least know a microbe of what you are discussing! A point is so much easier for the gentle reader! It's also sadly funny that Jesus died and even loves the numb skull whose name escapes me who say's.."I'm better than Jesus!" Ohh the irony...You ever notice that nobody takes Buddah's name in vain!? Or any other diety that comes to mind?..Why should they...no shock value in a false god! Hmmmm...
PEACE

[Totah Sam]

"5. As for your Genesis account about the sacrifice of Isaac. Notice Gen 22:5- " I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you." (An evidence of Abe's faith) By testing Abe, God was able to say of him "now I know." We are all free-moral beings;we have a will. God was merely testing Abe's heart. God limits Himself to our own choices, it doesn't make Him any less omniscient, we must respond to Him in faith and of our own free-will. Isaac was promised to Abe, now God wanted to see who had Abe's heart, the promise or the Promisor! I believe that in Abe's mind, if he had carried out killing his son, ( of which an angel stopped him) He believed God would raise him from the dead!God instead saw Abe's heart, and provided a ram instead, thus we get the name Jehovah Jireh- the Lord will provide."

I would also like to point out that Isaac was most likely a full grown adult when the sacrifice was requested. Isaac knew what was asked and fully compliant to God's request. Just because the movie shows Isaac as a child doesn't mean he actually was. This was a test of obedience not of sacrifice. also... if most of you feel the bible is a work of fiction and nothing in it is remotely true.. why worry about it.. it never happened. :p

Sorry... back to your regular scheduled program.

[Kirin Fenrir]

On a seprate note, Buhdda's name is never said in vain because he's not a "God". He's more of a mentor. He's not even part God, like Christ was supposed to be.

But I think it might be fun to go around saying "Buhdda dammit!"

:)

[J.L.R.]

1. Lev 27:28-29- This passage does not teach human sacrifice as you stated. Human sacrifices were forbidden per Ex 13:13;34:20 and Num 18:15. Parents were forbidden to sacrifice their children, Dt 12:30-31; Ps 106:37-38; Jer 7:31; Ezk 16:20-21. In your Lev passage the words "devoted thing" is the Hebrew word "Cherem" and refers to those doomed to death as in 1 Sam 15:21.In other words, anyone sentanced to death could not be bought off, he must be executed. From the death sentance there was no redemption or commutation.

2. Ex 22:29-30- This is not sacrifice. The first born son or male animal was considered holy unto the Lord, not to be sacrificed! Consider Luke 2:21-23, talking about the baby Jesus, " And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord;(As it is written in the law of the Lord,Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord) IE..your Ex 22:29-30.

3.Joshua 6:21- Were do you get sacrifice here? This was in the time of Israel's conquests and God's wrath against the total depravity of the Cannanites.This was an act of war, many times God commanded every living thing to be killed, including babies. Harsh reasoning, but baby Cannanites, Phillistines, Jebusites..ect grew into adult Cannanites, Phillistines..ect.Th is was also a type and shadow of sin in our lives, kill it when its a baby, it won't grow into maturity and kill you.

4. Judges 11:30-39- Her request was that she be given 2 months to mourn her perpetual virginity, she was not sacrificed but was rashly vowed to the Lord by her father to perpetual virginity in her service to the Lord. That in its self was a great sacrifice because the family name was completely cut off, she would have no part in bringing the Messiah into the world. She was to be devoted to the Tabernacle for service the rest of her life.

5. As for your Genesis account about the sacrifice of Isaac. Notice Gen 22:5- " I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you." (An evidence of Abe's faith) By testing Abe, God was able to say of him "now I know." We are all free-moral beings;we have a will. God was merely testing Abe's heart. God limits Himself to our own choices, it doesn't make Him any less omniscient, we must respond to Him in faith and of our own free-will. Isaac was promised to Abe, now God wanted to see who had Abe's heart, the promise or the Promisor! I believe that in Abe's mind, if he had carried out killing his son, ( of which an angel stopped him) He believed God would raise him from the dead!God instead saw Abe's heart, and provided a ram instead, thus we get the name Jehovah Jireh- the Lord will provide.

I can appreciate your use of Crosswalk.com, but don't ask baby christians doctrinal issues,it's annoying to watch christians that don't read their bibles try and blunder thru an answer! The posts on this thread are comical! I've not seen one person or furr-face if you prefer, that had a clue about Christ..God or anything relating to God. If your going to bust on Christ or God..at least know a microbe of what you are discussing! A point is so much easier for the gentle reader! It's also sadly funny that Jesus died and even loves the numb skull whose name escapes me who say's.."I'm better than Jesus!" Ohh the irony...You ever notice that nobody takes Buddah's name in vain!? Or any other diety that comes to mind?..Why should they...no shock value in a false god! Hmmmm...
PEACE


Finally another Christian that READS the Bible. It is amazing how many there are that don't...or should I say scary... Honestly they don't know what they are missing.

Good show...good show! :D

Very right!

[Hellcat]

Even judas iscariot had god on his side. Well he must have had musn't he? Jesus knew Judas would betray him, but he did naff all about it in fact he helped him along- he avoided the jews on several occassions when they tried to arresst him (on the grounds it wasn't his hour to be glorified by god)


Whether or not the bible is fact or fiction is irrelevent, the point is that the book exists and the evil of it exists in how it is interpreted by the believer.


Not to poke God with a stick, but:

"They've got God on their side. All we've got is logic and
reason."
Don't forget science too :D

[Xzengrim]

First of all, about God: If God is omniscient (which I'm pretty sure they say is true) He knew even before Jesus was born that His son would die on the cross. He LET HIM DIE. Of course, then again, he must have known that Jesus cannot die and everything would work out in the end. But anyway, he let his son be Crucified. But giving a nod to that whole Trinity thing, he let himself be crucified... not that that's a big deal, once again, because he cannot die. Anyway, I don't really get it.

That, and why is Jesus so great for dying on the cross? One man dies on the cross to save the immortal souls of everyone on Earth? That's a good deal. A really good deal! If I believed in the soul and had the opportunity, I'D let myself be crucified to save everyone else. Thousands of people were crucified for no reason. That, and there are people who've given a lot more and gotten a lot less.

That, and if you know the bible so well, how bout giving us some of those passages that mention wolves? I know there's the part about wolves in sheeps clothing, and there's that one part where Jesus cracks that wolf in the head with a stick (that was mean, BTW). But anyway, give us some others, if you would be so kind.

[Totah Sam]

Even judas iscariot had god on his side. Well he must have had musn't he? Jesus knew Judas would betray him, but he did naff all about it in fact he helped him along- he avoided the jews on several occassions when they tried to arresst him (on the grounds it wasn't his hour to be glorified by god)


Whether or not the bible is fact or fiction is irrelevent, the point is that the book exists and the evil of it exists in how it is interpreted by the believer.



Don't forget science too :D

Judas had God on his side until he sinned AGAINST God. Jesus knew the possibility existed that Judas would be the betrayer. After all the greatest gift given to mankind was free agency. :p

I find it amusing that you feel the bible is "evil" when it carries universal truths found in all religions and spiritual paths.

[Hellcat]

Judas had God on his side until he sinned AGAINST God. Jesus knew the possibility existed that Judas would be the betrayer. After all the greatest gift given to mankind was free agency. :p

I find it amusing that you feel the bible is "evil" when it carries universal truths found in all religions and spiritual paths.


A mere misunderstanding I'm sure, my friend- i wasn't implying that the book is evil, I was merely suggesting that it can be evil when used in the wrong hands. Many strange pseudo religions, or cults have come about from bible interpretations.


As for free agency- yes the FREEDOM to believe or not, as the individual choses. Personally I chose not to believe in god, however that doesn't mean that i disbelieve in everything I read in the bible

[LV426]

I don't believe the Bible is evil just those that try and use it for their own means are the ones that are "evil". Oh and by the way I have read several versions of the Bible and all of them are different in certain ways. I never said that the Bible teaches people to sacrifice, I said that God condoned sacrifice. Now seeing as how this whole book was written by humans, you aren't really very sure if that ram that was provided for Issac and not just blind luck.

And killing Caanite babies before they have committed any sins, that's sick, who is to say that some of those children might have grown up to be more and lead their people on a different path, I mean they were all born with free will.

Jesus was a sacrifice, sorry people but he was and there is nothing else you can say about that.

I simply pointed out some passages that speak of human sacrifice, there are more I just don't have time to find all of them. Human sacrifice is a very old practice and my theory is that most of it comes from human greed. What better way to get what your neighb or has then to say that God told you to kill him.

Thou shalt not kill, unless you really really mean it.

[Beneha'Elohim]

First of all, about God: If God is omniscient (which I'm pretty sure they say is true) He knew even before Jesus was born that His son would die on the cross. He LET HIM DIE. Of course, then again, he must have known that Jesus cannot die and everything would work out in the end. But anyway, he let his son be Crucified. But giving a nod to that whole Trinity thing, he let himself be crucified... not that that's a big deal, once again, because he cannot die. Anyway, I don't really get it.

That, and why is Jesus so great for dying on the cross? One man dies on the cross to save the immortal souls of everyone on Earth? That's a good deal. A really good deal! If I believed in the soul and had the opportunity, I'D let myself be crucified to save everyone else. Thousands of people were crucified for no reason. That, and there are people who've given a lot more and gotten a lot less.

That, and if you know the bible so well, how bout giving us some of those passages that mention wolves? I know there's the part about wolves in sheeps clothing, and there's that one part where Jesus cracks that wolf in the head with a stick (that was mean, BTW). But anyway, give us some others, if you would be so kind.

Now, this is an excellent question!I could give you a very dry, long doctrinal answer, or a quick one, i'm choosing the later for now.

Adam commited high treason and intoduced spiritual death and unleashed the demonic curse to all mankind. Romans 5:12 says.."Wherefore, as by one man (Adam) sin entered the world, and death by sin (spiritual death); and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned...Then 5:19 - " For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall many be made
righteous." What Adam messed up; was gonna take a Savior to fix!

John 1:1- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God."Vs 14- " And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us."
Galatians 4:4-5 " But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth His Son, made of a women, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons."

John 10:1- "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a liar." The door into the sheepfold is human birth. Everything Adam messed up as a man, had to be fixed by a man; The God-Man! He was born into this world by a human mother, the blood of a child is determined by the father; not the mother, so sin-nature was not passed thru the blood to Jesus. He was tempted in every way as a man, He emptied Himself of Diety and defeated sin, death and the devil as a Man!Thus the cross was a propitiation; an atonement for the sin of mankind by a sinless sacrifice. Thus, sin is not the obstacle now to everlasting life, Jesus is.." I am the Way, and the Truth and the Life..no one comes to the Father except thru Me."
Christianity is unique in the fact that all other religions on the face of the earth have their believer DO SOMETHING, PRESENT IT TO THEIR god; AND TRY AND GAIN ACCEPTANCE. WITH JESUS..HE DID IT ALL..I
AM ACCEPTED BY GOD NOT BASED ON WHAT I'VE DONE..ON WHAT CHRIST ALREADY DID!
About the wolf thing...Jesus hitting one in the head is news to me? Wolves that he was refering to were people who came into churches with false doctrine and got people hurt.

[Hellcat]

After a conversation with a christian I told him don't believe in God. He told me 'That doesn't matter cos God believes in you'

What the hell does that mean? My theory is that God wouldn't exist at all if nobody believed. How can something that might not exist, if people didn't believe other wise, believe in me?

[Beneha'Elohim]

After a conversation with a christian I told him don't believe in God. He told me 'That doesn't matter cos God believes in you'

What the hell does that mean? My theory is that God wouldn't exist at all if nobody believed. How can something that might not exist, if people didn't believe other wise, believe in me?

Do you believe in England? It exists regardless of your personal beliefs.How can an intelligent person think "This all just happened!"? It takes greater faith to believe that, than to believe in a Creator

[ArcaneWolf]

I tried to tell them from God but there all a bunch of idiots.

WOW, you must think I'm a really big idiot for listening to music made by guys who have burned down churches in Norway? :cool:

Anyway I find it funny when people support their points with Bible text aginst the points of non-believers. The fact is non-believes who care less what the bible says, we DON'T BELIEVE IT!

I will oppose any religion, government or industry that supports segregation, racism, sexual discrimination, censorship, blind faith or ignorance. My only god is me and I'm happy with that! I don't need others to tell me the truths in this life and perhaps in the next. I will discover them on my own!

[Beneha'Elohim]

WOW, you must think I'm a really big idiot for listening to music made by guys who have burned down churches in Norway? :cool:

Anyway I find it funny when people support their points with Bible text aginst the points of non-believers. The fact is non-believes who care less what the bible says, we DON'T BELIEVE IT!

I will oppose any religion, government or industry that supports segregation, racism, sexual discrimination, censorship, blind faith or ignorance. My only god is me and I'm happy with that! I don't need others to tell me the truths in this life and perhaps in the next. I will discover them on my own!

Don't know if you are refering to me or not, i was posting to those who were using the Bible as a refrence, and your correct..you will discover them..and Vallhalla isn't one of your options.

[Wraywolf]

Wait, I want to be the center of attention still!

*tries to run back into the fast retreating spotlight*

Noooo, come baaaack!

People can think what they want. Hell, i'm even kinda flatered when someone insults me becuse I'm gay. As long as no one tries to kill me becuse of what I am, I won't have to go to jail for manslaughter.

So I respect your views, just plese don't rag on people becuase they disagree with you. It's really very annoying.


http://btc.bolloxcomics.co. uk/comics/0261.png

[Beneha'Elohim]

My posts are not to insult or condemn,the only reason your heart still beats is because God wills it, i don't have to defend God,does a lion need me to defend it? The common thread that i've noticed in several of the more God-hating posts is the same...They were once christian and became disillusioned..hurt. .lied to, you name it. This is where "religion" has reared it's ugly head,Jesus wasn't religious, in fact, He trod upon men's traditions. As amazing as it sounds, Christ died for Osama..Hitler..Dahlm er..as much as He died for me.The Word says that if i say i love God and hate my brother, i'm still in darkness. Religious, abortion clinic burning, spitting on homosexuals, racist, so called "christians" are still in darkness..

[Totah Sam]

Wait, I want to be the center of attention still!

you have the makings of a fine drama queen. I can teach you grasshopper, but first you must snatch the ambercrombie and fitch magazine from my hand. :p

[ArcaneWolf]

Don't know if you are refering to me or not, i was posting to those who were using the Bible as a refrence, and your correct..you will discover them..and Vallhalla isn't one of your options.

:D
oh come on wouldn't you like to live forever battling all day and drinking/eating/sleeping all night? What's to stop someone from