How were werewolves as a race created?

[CynathDraco]

Is it possible that lycanthropy developed as an evolutionary change. ie change of form gradually shifting till closest animal would be a wolf.
Was lycanthropy begun as a curse that struck not only that person but became hereditary and struck his descendants?
Is it a possibility that it begun as a magical boon. ie gift from the devil, boon from a demon?
Give me your thoughts because this really interests me.

[Rylias Shadow]

I've never heard of Lycanthropy being an evolutionary change, and I highly doubt that it was. I believe that it is a curse or disease that is heriditary, and the curse can be caught also by making pacts with the devil, or a dance of some kind. There are many acts said to turn a human into a werewolf.

To name a few:
1. Drinking water from the footprint of a wolf.
2. Eating part of a sheep a wolf has killed.
3. Wearing a magical wolfskin belt givin by the devil (in exchange for your soul, of course)
4. Chants, dances and special midnight rituals with potions or magic circles are also said to work.

The more..."iffy" ones...I mean, how many witches are there, and I know humans that have been thrown from churches.
1. Being a witch.
2. Getting thrown from a church.

[Okami no hi]

Saliva. Alot of diseases are carried down through saliva, like rabies.

[C.A.M.]

Is it possible that lycanthropy developed as an evolutionary change. ie change of form gradually shifting till closest animal would be a wolf.


Even if the idea of the evolutionary change is not possible, it still holds an interesting view on the whole werewolf situation. Everyone has heard of the whole curse and bitten idea, but like CynathDraco said with an evolutionary change it seems more plausible that this could have happen. But that is only a opinion of mine.
But good on ya CynathDraco for the idea, i have never thought about it that way. :beerchug:

[LV426]

Perhaps a disease that caused an evolutionary change.

[CynathDraco]

Perhaps a disease that caused an evolutionary change.

Do you mean like the whole idea of the underworld movies, someone gets a disease and it made them stronger.

[Vagabond Flow]

The theory of evolution is pretty much incompatible with the existence of werewolves. There's no fossil record, no identifiable place on the tree of life and nothing remotely similar has been found to exist.

[ThrasherCub]

There's no fossil record, no identifiable place on the tree of life and nothing remotely similar has been found to exist.
Well, presumably they would evolve from either wolves or humans, and since this were-form is generally a temporary form the body has taken, all three of those would be quietly sitting with their wolf or human cousins. I've always enjoyed trying to figure out how werewolves would/do exist, and that was one of the better ways I found to explain it. Think of in all those werewolf movies or in Werewolf: the Apocalypse - you kill a werewolf, and next thing you know there's this naked dead guy where the 800 lb monster ought to be.

Note: I said "would/do exist" because the only way to absolutely prove that a werewolf does not exist is the be everywhere at the same moment in time and say, "Nope, no werewolf here." So while it's far fetched, I'm not much of a believer, and we don't have much in the way of scientific evidence to even say they even could exist, it cannot truthfully be said that beyond any doubt they do not.

[John 677808]

created by supernatural forces or from the magic of some ancient civilisation that no longer exists or by God. ;)

[Vagabond Flow]

Well, presumably they would evolve from either wolves or humans, and since this were-form is generally a temporary form the body has taken, all three of those would be quietly sitting with their wolf or human cousins.

Surely they would evolve from something that can change shape, this being their dominant trait. A trait that is almost totally absent in mammals. The human species is too young for such a radical evolution, and wolves aren't that old either.

[Layira Aura]

The reason there could not be fossil evidence is because maybe the werewolves died as humans. This would explain why no fossil records have been found in the past. If a werewolf did die as a wolf, it might have been in a place humans didn't look. I mean, in order to find bones that are fresh, you would have to find a body a few weeks or less after the creature died, and how often do you come upon a dead creature in the woods?

I think it would make sense.

[Phoenix's Master]

whenever a werewolf dies, the body turns into its human form.

[MorganaFang]

whenever a werewolf dies, the body turns into its human form.

Ah ha! So if a werewolf were to die from a coronary while taking a squat outside he'd turn back into human? Ok, scratch that example I just wanted a chance to bring bathroom humor to a discussion today.

Please explain how that works? because transformation from wolf to man would be a fairly excessive process and could just happen in a split second. So if a wolf were to die upon impact or impalement with something there are still a few minutes where parts of the body may still be a live, but pretty much everything shuts down after 14 blinks how can a dead cells go through a change with out energy?

[Phoenix's Master]

tha's simple: everything has energy, but some things nevr run out of energy. so basically, a werewolf can die, but evrythig, even a dead body, has energy.

[MorganaFang]

tha's simple: everything has energy, but some things nevr run out of energy. so basically, a werewolf can die, but evrythig, even a dead body, has energy.

Hooooow? The blood has stopped flowing so blood is no longer circulated and getting "food" (oxygen) to create the energy necessary. You may claim there is a enough time and energy stored after death but again I'd like to point out if a shift from one species of animal to another it would not be instantaneous. Think of it this way, it takes even some of the fastest healers a couple of days for skin to grow back on a cut, man to wolf is like growing a whole new anatomy, you'd need a frick'n huge store of energy to pull that off.

Give me scientific reasoning and I may actually believe you.

[Phoenix's Master]

Hooooow? The blood has stopped flowing so blood is no longer circulated and getting "food" (oxygen) to create the energy necessary. You may claim there is a enough time and energy stored after death but again I'd like to point out if a shift from one species of animal to another it would not be instantaneous. Think of it this way, it takes even some of the fastest healers a couple of days for skin to grow back on a cut, man to wolf is like growing a whole new anatomy, you'd need a frick'n huge store of energy to pull that off.

Give me scientific reasoning and I may actually believe you.

Not everything goes with science, and werewolves are 1 of many, i just missed being turned into 1, and i killed a werewolf, and i watched it turn back 2 normal, so...

[MorganaFang]

Not everything goes with science, and werewolves are 1 of many, i just missed being turned into 1, and i killed a werewolf, and i watched it turn back 2 normal, so...

Oh of course! I totally believe you now because everyone is completely honest online.

No, seriously... you killed something alright and that's any stock of credibility you may have had.

Now let me explain why.... Numero uno, though I am aware that at any age you're able to do incredible things, chances are more likely than not most people at about the age of the 16, those who appear to spend a great deal of time online do not go about killing werewolves, or knowing all the clear cut facts about mysteries of the world. Some day I'll be proven wrong when the millions of youtube videos come out for every 14-16 year old who has posted about hunting vampires or weres (or transforming into such) depicting what they had said. But until that day, you're full of shit. Four years ago I went through the same phase, so maybe I'm being a little harsh (hypocritical) but then again from my experience I can say that making such claims get you no where, not even on sites like these. Makes you look like foolish.

Secondly, though I agree not everything has an end all answer with science, science comes closer to explaining everything than "Because I'm saying so" reasoning. That's pathetic to use that, unless you have more to back up your statement only other tard teens (or tr00 w3r3s) are going to be the ones to believe you.

You would have some more credibility if you actually typed out numbers as well.

Get off the computer, interact with the real world! Hell! Go Forth tell everyone in the real world you've been killing werewolves see how well that flies. I don't understand how expressing such on a message board is any better than that.

[Phoenix's Master]

Why do ppl always dought me?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! i don't lie!!!!!!!!!!!!! werewolves are real, end of discussion!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

[John 677808]

I will say it again they are the creation of an ancient civilisation that no longer exists or by the forces of the supernatural or by the hand of God. :cool:

[Phoenix's Master]

supernatural, yes. but by an ancient civilisation or by God? do u know what the legends say about werewolves?

[MorganaFang]

Why do ppl always dought me?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! i don't lie!!!!!!!!!!!!! werewolves are real, end of discussion!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

Maybe people doubt because you write and present your evidence like that.

Which actually you don't present any real reasoning why people should believe you. You say things point blank and do not back them up. I say you're not credible and point out why.

I did give you a benefit of a doubt, and even a chance to explain yourself. What do you do? Two sentences of point blank statement, no explanation, I call you a liar, hoping that like most of the hot heads on this site you may do paragraphs upon paragraphs of bullshit that at least are an attempt to try to prove you're right what happens? "No one believes me" statement. Your ability to communicate is a complete fail.

You think people not believing you is bad? Having conversation with people who have a "because I say so, makes it true" mentality is ten times worse because there is nothing to be gained from them.

Again I say get off the computer, try interacting in a world that isn't all role play.

[Phoenix's Master]

that's a tad bit impossible. i'm already living a role play life.

[Okami no hi]

Okay, first off, thanks Morgana for beating me to bringing that up. Second, though I am not good at putting these things together, I will attempt to try to pull a few things discussed in this thred apart, and I'll try to do it with out measly little one liners. The begging of this thread, it started off about how werewolves came to be right. Okay, as I said earlier in this thread, saliva. Oops, I almost forgot. I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE THAT READS THIS HAS TO BELEIVE ME, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN BELEIFS WITHOUT FURTHER CRITISISM. I was an ass in my earlier threads on this site and do not want to make the same mistake again. Here we go. Now I'm not saying you should beleive I am a werewolve, as I am not like those creatures in the movies, but I will tell you why I think it(being a werewolf) is brought on by the introduction of a bateria into the bloodstream my means of saliva.When I was in the second grade I got hurt really bad, a peice of sheet metal peirced into my chest somewhere between three and four inches, and was where my heart should be. There was blood everywhere and I was week after the impallment. My brother was nearby crying thinking I was dead and I didn't want him to cry because of me. So I rolled off the rack that I was stuck on, which at my age was quite a drop. I looked over and saw a wolf staring at me. I thought it came to kill me, and readied myself for the worst. It came over to me and started liking my chest. Note that I have a very high pain tollerance and the wound didn't hurt, until the wolf licked it. It burned, like nothing I ever felt in my life, and since then I started to change, My hearing is better than anyone my doctor has ever seen, sight also, I though I used to have a dominant eye, I no longer do. If I get a wound that would take most people a week or two to heal, I can heal in a day or two. My regeneration rate is about three times faster than most, including broken bones. My brother has seen this all, and noticed the changes in my body as well as I did. I can outrun most men in the military, heck, I could outrun them at age twelve. Nothing changed until that day and I can steal feel that burning running thruogh my veins still. It never leaves me, it hurts, and the docs don't know what is wrong with me. The wolfs outside my house, it is as if we can understand one another. When I was in third grade my brother and I got into a fight, as most sibblings do. He bit me and I got mad and bit him back. He wouldn't stop screaming that his arm was on fire. Since then he is becoming the same way in everything also. My friend acctually begged me to bite her, I did though I thought it was stupid and wouldn't do anything, but she is one of us too now. I have also seen this in vampires. Though my hatred for them still grows sometime I talk to them. A pet bat, a wild bat, all been bitten by a bat, pet or not. All share the same trait as me when it comes to teeth, they can extend them. Though they can extend them even farther than me or my bro, we're so jealous. I have yet to see wings though. But I do beleive them, you see their fangs up close and personal and you can't help but beleive them. This is only on personal experiences, not in the records, so if you don't beleive me I don't care. I will understand. Just try and look at it as though it wer' rabies, brought on and passed down through the saliva, as if a disease of sorts. That is all for now, I will try to post again soon with my theories on transformation and death. Even if you do not beleive I hope that I may have laid my presentation out alot better than I have before. Bye.

[John 677808]

Maybe people doubt because you write and present your evidence like that.

Which actually you don't present any real reasoning why people should believe you. You say things point blank and do not back them up. I say you're not credible and point out why.

I did give you a benefit of a doubt, and even a chance to explain yourself. What do you do? Two sentences of point blank statement, no explanation, I call you a liar, hoping that like most of the hot heads on this site you may do paragraphs upon paragraphs of bullshit that at least are an attempt to try to prove you're right what happens? "No one believes me" statement. Your ability to communicate is a complete fail.

You think people not believing you is bad? Having conversation with people who have a "because I say so, makes it true" mentality is ten times worse because there is nothing to be gained from them.

Again I say get off the computer, try interacting in a world that isn't all role play.

Yes its like Neverwinter Nights on here :D

[Phoenix's Master]

how can i convince to so-called no-it-alls? i've tried going to the news, but they just laughed at me. i would never try my family, mainly on the account that they hate anything to do with the supernaturel, and trust me, i may be 16, but you have no idea what i saw. until you prove me wrong, i'll not say whether i'm right or wrong.

[Vagabond Flow]

Take photos, or even better videos. It wouldn't convince hard-nosed sceptics, but it'd get you enough followers to extract money from. You could live like a king on your own private ship, a la L. Ron Hubbard.

[MorganaFang]

how can i convince to so-called no-it-alls? i've tried going to the news, but they just laughed at me. i would never try my family, mainly on the account that they hate anything to do with the supernaturel, and trust me, i may be 16, but you have no idea what i saw. until you prove me wrong, i'll not say whether i'm right or wrong.

This know it all, simply demands more of an explanation than you give me. Take Okami, for example, though I'm fairly dubious of her she still attempts to give as much information as she can or is willing to divulge.

Since you cannot prove your case right, and odds are in favor of you being full of shit and I've given my reasoning over why odds are.

And I find it funny that in one thread you claim to have killed a were, and in another you chose to ran away from a group you saw changing.

[Phoenix's Master]

This know it all, simply demands more of an explanation than you give me. Take Okami, for example, though I'm fairly dubious of her she still attempts to give as much information as she can or is willing to divulge.

Since you cannot prove your case right, and odds are in favor of you being full of shit and I've given my reasoning over why odds are.

And I find it funny that in one thread you claim to have killed a were, and in another you chose to ran away from a group you saw changing.
I already gave you my reason, Morgana. But I'll say it again. The reason that I ran away was because I was young, and the reason I killed the other one is because I knew that it wasn't one of my friends, although more like ex-friends.

[Lilith]

I prefer the more scientific approach;
Such as Lycanthropy as a medical condition in which the patient fully believes they are some sort of animal.
For you believers, this means that they don't actually shift.

Extend this several hundred years into the past. Back when any freethinking woman was labeled a witch.
Imagine a person crawling down the street barking, howling, naked, and claiming to only eat raw meat.

At this time please insert the Catholic churches need to exercise judgement on "devil worshipers".

Stories start to circulate, and then all it takes is a few heretic teenagers to blow things out of control.

Just my opinion though (=.
Here's a site I found helpful. It discusses several theories to the Lycanthropic origin, including the medical disorder and the more mythological approaches. :)
http://werewolves.monstrous .com/werewolf_origins.htm

[John 677808]

I prefer the more scientific approach;
Such as Lycanthropy as a medical condition in which the patient fully believes they are some sort of animal.
For you believers, this means that they don't actually shift.

Extend this several hundred years into the past. Back when any freethinking woman was labeled a witch.
Imagine a person crawling down the street barking, howling, naked, and claiming to only eat raw meat.

At this time please insert the Catholic churches need to exercise judgement on "devil worshipers".

Stories start to circulate, and then all it takes is a few heretic teenagers to blow things out of control.

Just my opinion though (=.
Here's a site I found helpful. It discusses several theories to the Lycanthropic origin, including the medical disorder and the more mythological approaches. :)
http://werewolves.monstrous .com/werewolf_origins.htm

You wish it was really as simple as that :p

[LV426]

I will say it again they are the creation of an ancient civilisation that no longer exists or by the forces of the supernatural or by the hand of God. :cool:
And the proof?

[Okami no hi]

Hey Pheonix, have you ever been on Tv?
I pretty sure that if you murdered a werewolf you would be on Tv. I'm not nececarily saying you didn't, but wolf's even were's usually travel in packs. Wouldn't they have seen you and turned you in, just say you killed their buddy? Also, I am trying to right more to post on here in a more scientific matter or somehting like that. Type ya all soon, bye.

[John 677808]

And the proof?

I joined this occult site a few years back and although my membership has long since run out.I was able to scour a section concerning this guys magic (aleister crowley) and some paticular jewish spirits which appear with the correct rituals and requirements and can give you certain abilites ,if summoned and demanded carefuly from correctly.
I have forgotten their names both individual and collective ,but I recall that I never attempted to summon any of them as one of the requirements for this magic was to fast on 2 certain types of food for months ,before trying anything and that put me off. plus I didnt have a altar at the time neither. ;)
still that kind of magic kept me interested in the occult and I am sure they have the resources with skill to change people into werewolves.
heres the sites address www.academyofsorcery .com
But it shouldn't be neccesary if Pheonix really has information relating to werewolf transformation rituals/chants/requirements. :rolleyes:

[DL Lycan]

were·wolf /ˈwɛərˌwʊlf, ˈwɪər-, ˈwɜr-/[wair-woolf, weer-, wur-]
–noun, plural -wolves /-ˌwʊlvz/ Pronunciation Key -
(in folklore and superstition) a human being who has changed into a wolf, or is capable of assuming the form of a wolf, while retaining human intelligence.

Courteous of dictionary.com

Theres my proof, Provide some physical evidence I'm wrong. Let me help you with that word.

–noun
1. that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.
2. something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign: His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
3. Law. data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.
–verb (used with object)
4. to make evident or clear; show clearly; manifest: He evidenced his approval by promising his full support.

Meaning that "I saw 'em ma, I really did" Doesn't cut it.

[Twilightshadow]

hey, I'm new here but
i don't know anybody or how to fix my avatar up,...can some one help me?..:(

[SilverCat]

well, one theory is that the therianthropes have existed along side our own hereditary family gene pool. there is always the theory that the fallen angels that came to lay w/ man & woman...they created a plethora of genetic interlacements.

a friend of mine thinks that it is a very ancient curse on the first & his bloodline. (perhaps it was Lilith, or even the curse that was on Cain, the third member of the hebrew lineage)

call it what you will...no one will know the answers to questions like that. not without uncovering the many other secrets that cloud our past.

~SilverCat

[Ultimate Carnage]

I personally think that the only way werewolf could exist in real life is a wlof like demon escaping from hell some how and bighting a human or two and turning them into werewolfs but thats just my opinion.

[Cynocephali]

Just throwing in my two cents: Unless you guys are useing the term differently (havent been on here since the last website layout [i.e. its been awhile]) but the term lycanthropy is but a mental illness.

As for the evolution part of actual "werewolfism??" that does sound rather interesting. i wouldnt mind reading the thoughts of some people on the subject.

[Tux]

I’m just glad that the werewolf kiddies don’t know what a kitsune is; or we’d probably see a lot more of them running around. Though back on the subject; they don’t exist; at least not as mythology portrays them. There is the clinical disease after all; and that really has nothing in common with what a lot of people seem to claim they can do. Though if I remember correctly it’s stated in some Norse myths that some berserkers also exhibited the ability to change forms. Normally to that of a bear; and I’m fairly certain that was just given as an example of the fury they fought with on the battlefield; not an actual ability.

As it’s also been stated that berserkers couldn’t be hurt by iron or fire. Though like I said, that’s not entirely true, they were injured they just didn’t show it for the massive amounts of adrenaline flowing through their system. Though before anyone says anything about being a berserker, I’d like to say that I’d find it hard for all the emo kids that seem to follow this fad to be berserkers. But that’s just me.

[DarkWolf]

I’m just glad that the werewolf kiddies don’t know what a kitsune isThe word kitsune means fox (Kyuubi Kitsune from Naruto rules!). I never understood why simply using the word 'fox' in Japanese would some how denote an anthropological fox. :shrug:

[MorganaFang]

The word kitsune means fox (Kyuubi Kitsune from Naruto rules!). I never understood why simply using the word 'fox' in Japanese would some how denote an anthropological fox. :shrug:

Because kitsune was also what the shape shifting "demon" was called as well. Basically, if I remember anything, all the animals have the ability to shape shift or give the illusion to change into a person. I have several stories about kitsune, koi and tigers seducing men to their death.

[Tux]

Because kitsune was also what the shape shifting "demon" was called as well. Basically, if I remember anything, all the animals have the ability to shape shift or give the illusion to change into a person. I have several stories about kitsune, koi and tigers seducing men to their death.

Not only that but they were also able to create illusions as well as several other things. In some Japanese myths they’re almost treated as a kind of deity. They’re also said to be the spirits of the dead, and they can also posses people. Though their powers are diminished unless they happen to posses a child while it’s still in the womb, which causes the spirit of the child to be removed if the kitsune assumes control.

It also seems that most kitsune that appear in the myths are female. Though some people have said that kitsune could change their sex it’s not supported so much from what I’ve read. It was simply that male kitsune normally went after the women; and given the era of Japan that most of the stories are from; they normally didn’t write about them. Though that has mostly to do with the views on women at the time more than anything else from what I understand.

Ok, I’ve gotten far enough off topic. So I’ll stop now.

[SilverCat]

Just throwing in my two cents: Unless you guys are useing the term differently (havent been on here since the last website layout [i.e. its been awhile]) but the term lycanthropy is but a mental illness.

As for the evolution part of actual "werewolfism??" that does sound rather interesting. i wouldnt mind reading the thoughts of some people on the subject.

Lycanthropy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about the creatures of mythology. For alternative meanings see Lycanthropy (disambiguation).
In folklore, lycanthropy is the ability or power of a human being to undergo transformation into a wolf. The term comes from ancient Greek lykánthropos (λυκάνθρωπος): λύκος, lýkos ("wolf") + άνθρωπος, ánthrōpos ("man") (Rose, 230). The word can also be used transitively, referring to the act of transforming someone else into a wolf, or werewolf.

The word lycanthropy is often used generically for any transformation of a human into animal form, though the precise term for that is technically therianthropy. Rarely, zoanthropy is used instead of therianthropy (Guiley, 192).

Folk-etymology also links the word to Lycaon, a king of Arcadia who, according to Ovid's Metamorphoses, was turned into a ravenous wolf in retribution for attempting to serve human flesh (his own son) to visiting Zeus in an attempt to disprove the god's divinity.

There is also a mental illness called lycanthropy in which a patient believes he or she is, or has transformed into, an animal and behaves accordingly. This is sometimes referred to as clinical lycanthropy to distinguish it from its use in legends.

thats my two cents. :wavey:

[lordmakkay]

Well there is no fossile record because when they die they change back to the human form,which means because the inside is the same the fossile would appear human...

[lordmakkay]

Lycanthropy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about the creatures of mythology. For alternative meanings see Lycanthropy (disambiguation).
In folklore, lycanthropy is the ability or power of a human being to undergo transformation into a wolf. The term comes from ancient Greek lykánthropos (λυκάνθρωπος): λύκος, lýkos ("wolf") + άνθρωπος, ánthrōpos ("man") (Rose, 230). The word can also be used transitively, referring to the act of transforming someone else into a wolf, or werewolf.

The word lycanthropy is often used generically for any transformation of a human into animal form, though the precise term for that is technically therianthropy. Rarely, zoanthropy is used instead of therianthropy (Guiley, 192).

Folk-etymology also links the word to Lycaon, a king of Arcadia who, according to Ovid's Metamorphoses, was turned into a ravenous wolf in retribution for attempting to serve human flesh (his own son) to visiting Zeus in an attempt to disprove the god's divinity.

There is also a mental illness called lycanthropy in which a patient believes he or she is, or has transformed into, an animal and behaves accordingly. This is sometimes referred to as clinical lycanthropy to distinguish it from its use in legends.

thats my two cents. :wavey:
Well if it is just a mental illness then why are the legends told not by us,but the native americans and a few other races as well...

[SilverCat]

Well there is no fossile record because when they die they change back to the human form,which means because the inside is the same the fossile would appear human...

how do they change form in death? that would take so much energy that there wouldn't be a body left after that kind of energy expendeture. i've never liked that theory. what ever form you die in, you stay in. IF its possible to learn the secrets of the REAL CHANGERS.

[SilverCat]

i don't think its just a mental illness. that was for someone who thought it was only a mental illness.

[MorganaFang]

Well if it is just a mental illness then why are the legends told not by us,but the native americans and a few other races as well...

Lycanthropy IS a mental illness where a human has lost his marbles and is acting like a feral animal, this was it's meaning prior to popular media.

Pretty much every race shares similar stories about one kind of mythical creature or another. Some tie this to theories about the collective consciousness, others bringing up cultural exchange. Who knows, but it still isn't hard evidence against or in favor of existence. You never know where the stories could have gotten manipulated down the line too. Myths are like one giant, generation-spanding game of telephone.

[vesperalupa]

I read that Zeus cursed king Lycan to forever be a wolf and then his descendents carried on the gene. :l

[ookamioni90]

well maybe it is an evolution disease that was changed in time.It would change to protect itself more effectivly.