Magic

[Celtic Hill]

Do you belive in magic? I do, i think it is energy filterd and consentrtated on someting. what is your take :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Layira Aura]

Magyk, is a mysterious thing. While neither direct energy nor spirits, it seems that everyone has claimed to either use it or be affected by it. Under its "influence", people have killed other people and done horrible deeds. Yet, it has been mentioned for centuries. Why? People are fascinated by it, and it is one of the mysteries of this world. Why we may not understand it, it's like many things in this world. ((That is, if it exists!))

Don't have much time, I'll write more later.

[MorganaFang]

Under its "influence", people have killed other people and done horrible deeds.

That's a fabrication for the most part. As I am growing to understand magic (screw special spelling), magic does not influence people to do anything. People have to generate the bad energy in order to have negative things happen. Even then, it is utter bull that a lot of people have done bad things through magic or killed each other. Though I do know specifically of "witches" being contacted for such deeds, their hands are clean it is usually just the generated bad will of people doing the contacting. Err I need to sit on this one for awhile and think and pull out my sources because I am sick and tired of a spirituality getting convoluted with bs.

[Celtic Hill]

I am sick and tired of a spirituality getting convoluted with bs.

tell me about i... you look in difrent books and they are all diffrent, but once you look deeper into what they are saying they are all the same.

[Gilenea]

tell me about i... you look in difrent books and they are all diffrent, but once you look deeper into what they are saying they are all the same.

Oh, man. THAT is deep.

Gil

[Layira Aura]

In no way was I actually suggesting that these people were under any influence, hence the "" marks. But people have created that excuse to cover up their bad deeds, and some of these supposed "witches" really have killed people, through other ways, and most likely were executed. The Salem witch trials aren't exactly the best example, because we all know the truth behind that story, so it's hard to explain my point. I believe in more of the Wiccan definition of magyck. That you can, for instance, mix this with that and get a "potion" for healing sore throats. in fact, this could have been only a common remedy, which they thought was so amazing that they believed it was magyck. In a sense, anything extraordinary or spectacular, and since they couldn't explain it, it must have been magyck! ((being sarcastic))

I guess that explains what I'm trying to say. What do you think?

[MorganaFang]

Maggick. Magyck is completely made up word with the exception of a couple of teen "witches guides". Magick is a word that is more accepted as the alternative spelling though it is also a fictitious word that possibly hail origin from Crowley.

If anyone is interested in real wicca I recommend they avoid such books Ravenwolf or Silverbitch's teen crap, holistic green poop and whatever else.

This is an ok Article to start. http://www.pantheon.org/areas/featured/witchcraft/chapter-1.html

[DarkWolf]

Oh, man. THAT is deep.

Gil
I guess that's one way of describing it. I, however, had an entirely different word in mind...

[DarkHunter]

"Magick" was Crowley's word, in order to make it different from stage magician theater magic.

Crowley being the Devil behind Wicca, its no suprise. I wonder what he would think of his other bastard child, Scientology...

Magic though. The main topic. Magic is taking whatever energy (biological, pyschic force, etc) and putting to a specific purpose. Whether it pulls of this purpose is debateable. I would say yes, but I'm rather guillible.

Of course magic is a natural thing and it is not capable of rendering the impossible, but simply the unlikely. It has to work within natural settings to get anything done at all. So all that crap about people being find upstanding citizens, then being cursed and doing horrible things is bullshit. They would probably have done the horrible things sooner or later or at least they desperately wanted to.

Ravenwolf, silver idiot, pentassholes. Cashing in on teens. Like that Fiona lady that was on Mad Mad House. Cool show and all, but from what I hear of her books, she's just as fluffy as anybody. Anybody interested in magic should start with two sources. Namely Crowley and the Freemasons because all magic is influenced to a large extent by them.

I'd say consult the Satanic Bible, learn the format, and then realize that the format doens't really matter. Check the Satanic Rituals. Thats the fun one. LaVey wrote many histories of the rituals. When you realize that hte rituals work rather well if you have the right mindset, than try to find LaVey's sources. You'll learn something interesting about magic right there.

I'm rather biased of course, but knowledge is knowledge.

[Gilenea]

Actually, you might want to look up something called "energy working" or "energy manipulation."

That's the "correct" term for magic/majick/magick/magyk/mahjick/majyck... You get the idea.

Gil

[MorganaFang]

Crowley being the Devil behind Wicca, its no suprise.

My balls, he was not behind the entirety of wicca just the most current practice. :P though I agree for the most part of some of the stuff you've said.

Wicca was an old word borrowed and turned into being equal to or apart of witchcraft. Wicca was initially used in application of people mostly women who had reached a level of wisdom that usually comes from having passed every "cycle" of their life and thus earthly wise about herbs, healing, all that crap.(you have to love how I handle one of my beloved fields of study) The term wicca was also used to talk about girls who reached the wisdom prior to "walking the cycles". And I swear to god I will find the text on this, internet is just stupid for researching anything remotely about wicca or magic or spirituality.

[IIFerinusII]

I don't believe in it( in a way that people view it as some art or something that is due to magic in the air or some crap like that). You can't tell me that saying some words or doing some ritual is going to do anything to distort something. I believe magic is like praying. It is wishful thinking and you must have faith in it or believe strongly, without doubt in it, for it to work. Those who practice magic always say to newbies that it isn't working because you don't believe in it yet, or pertaining to praying, you must have faith in god for it to work. All this stuff is is wishful thinking that gives us positive energy and helps us manifest what we wanted as a result.
So in essence, yes it somewhat works if you believe in it, but it isn't in the way that people see it as some incantation or ritual that makes it work automatically, and it is no different than praying or thinking positively and getting what you want.

[DarkHunter]

My balls, he was not behind the entirety of wicca just the most current practice. :P though I agree for the most part of some of the stuff you've said.

Wicca was an old word borrowed and turned into being equal to or apart of witchcraft. Wicca was initially used in application of people mostly women who had reached a level of wisdom that usually comes from having passed every "cycle" of their life and thus earthly wise about herbs, healing, all that crap.(you have to love how I handle one of my beloved fields of study) The term wicca was also used to talk about girls who reached the wisdom prior to "walking the cycles". And I swear to god I will find the text on this, internet is just stupid for researching anything remotely about wicca or magic or spirituality.

I'm sorry I didn't mean all Wicca. I know that some forms of it existed before Gardner came along. Gardner had to copy off someone after all if he didn't just want another branch of Thelema.

I've always felt magic though in its way is a kind of realization of your deepest self, your desires. I mean, why does one use magic? Not lightly. Part of it may be worship for some people, but then that isn't exactly magic. Magic is used for your desires (be they for someone elses gain, love, or anything else). You're not doing it to win the lottery or stupid things like that. You're exploring your conciousness, what you really want out of life.

[Gilenea]

So in essence, yes it somewhat works if you believe in it, but it isn't in the way that people see it as some incantation or ritual that makes it work automatically, and it is no different than praying or thinking positively and getting what you want.

Even if you don't believe in it, the thought of saying a few words can be enough to have your energy influence something. It's the energy's effect on your environment... Not evoking whatever god or goddess with "magyckall powarz" you may have to make someone fall in love with you, for example.

It's simply about your energy and how it interacts and influences your environment around you. The movie The Craft is pure bollocks.

Gil

[SleepingSilently]

Even if you don't believe in it, the thought of saying a few words can be enough to have your energy influence something. It's the energy's effect on your environment... Not evoking whatever god or goddess with "magyckall powarz" you may have to make someone fall in love with you, for example.

It's simply about your energy and how it interacts and influences your environment around you. The movie The Craft is pure bollocks.

Gil

i agree with Gil. when people say majik i think of silly parlor tricks, and magicicans with mirrors and trap doors.

S.S

[DarkHunter]

Silly parlor tricks inspire emotion. Emotion creates energy. In a way, those magicians are utilizing magic themselves.

Any person who creates emotion in another, manipulates it, can be seen as a magician. Of course a true magician has a purpose and utilizes the energy distilled. Or perhaps their purpose is just to exercise their emotions.

[philodox]

When I see 'majick' I think "Fuck, someone get that person a spellcheck!" Yes, I lump intentional misspellings of magic in with people who leetspeak.
Having said that, if magic is a matter of saying a few words that give you a warm and fuzzy engery adjustment...any person who believes in a higher power and prays regularly...qualifie s.
So really, the question I have before I can really answer the question "Do you believe in magic?" is "What is magic?" Distilled into its' simplest form, prayer and magical ritual are frighteningly similar. You position your body appropriately, entreat the proper deity, visualize what you wish to happen, and then bring it to a close.

[xxMatolfxx]

I believe in it. I am saying this with only half way understanding it. I believe it is manipulating the energy within ones self. I am currently trying to find more ways in doing this without envoking some kind of evil satanic ritual.

[DarkHunter]

I believe in it. I am saying this with only half way understanding it. I believe it is manipulating the energy within ones self. I am currently trying to find more ways in doing this without envoking some kind of evil satanic ritual.

The best magic is evil Satanic ritual :D

Just examine any magical system and break it down, really. You'll find the basics and you can dress it up anyway you like. Put whatever symbols, names, deities, requirements you like.

[xxMatolfxx]

I am not looking to go so far into it where I can't get back though. Dabbling with souls and the dark arts is dangerous. So I have heard atleast.

[Okami no hi]

New Page! Auric shields are the bestest.

[DarkHunter]

I am not looking to go so far into it where I can't get back though. Dabbling with souls and the dark arts is dangerous. So I have heard atleast.

Magic is magic. Black, White, Light, Dark. A rose is a rose is a rose.

People can only "not get back through" when they don't want to. If you want to give it up, you can. Really.

Satan forbid, you're not reading Harry Potter for tips on magic....are you?

[xxMatolfxx]

No. I think the Harry Potter series is full of shit.

[shadow_pup]

No. I think the Harry Potter series is full of shit.


i'd have to agree. Those who are obsessed with harry potter should get a hobby.

and also alot of people asume that witches worship satan. If people were more open-minded they'd relize that they dont but hey, maybe im just thinkin of kitchen witches. i havent gotten very far in my studies yet.

[DarkHunter]

"Witch" is only defined as "someone who uses witchcraft." Popularly, this would signify a female, though not very many people draw the distinction when calling themselves Witches. I'm sure some foolish person does worship the Christian devil and calls themself a Witch.

[xxMatolfxx]

A witch can either be female or male. A warlock is not a male witch. They dabble in other kinds of magic. I use to remember but that was a while long ago. :cool:

[MorganaFang]

A witch can either be female or male. A warlock is not a male witch. They dabble in other kinds of magic. I use to remember but that was a while long ago. :cool:

A warlock is a liar and a deceiver. Though popular culture and wiki would like to you to believe it is something else or a person that practices magic, it is not.

[DarkHunter]

If you noticed I said "popularly" as in its often referred to like that, Witch signifying a female. I didn't suggest that was what it really meant.

[Okami no hi]

Thank god, other people that dislike Harry Potter. Every where I go people are still talking about it. Also, can't a christian be a witch? I am christian and sometimes dabble, maybe not enough to be a witch but, early christians were witches and alchemists, alchemy being the best :D

[DarkWolf]

A warlock is a liar and a deceiver. Though popular culture and wiki would like to you to believe it is something else or a person that practices magic, it is not.
Actually it was first used in Scotland to mean a male witch since 1568 and has been used to mean "in league with the devil" since 1300.

Yay for etymology!

:p

[MorganaFang]

Thank god, other people that dislike Harry Potter. Every where I go people are still talking about it. Also, can't a christian be a witch? I am christian and sometimes dabble, maybe not enough to be a witch but, early christians were witches and alchemists, alchemy being the best :D

Chicka most wiccans (these days) ARE christian. My former mentor constantly preached about the sacrament and all that jazz.

And yes "witches" in the past were also faithful christians as well.

[xxMatolfxx]

If you noticed I said "popularly" as in its often referred to like that, Witch signifying a female. I didn't suggest that was what it really meant.
I know that you said popularly. I was just getting that question out of the way incase someone else asked it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[DarkHunter]

Two things:

From all that I can tell, Warlock is a valid title, not just a perjorative.

Second: If you want to look at "Warlock" as having a negative meaning, perhaps we might reexamine the basis of the word "witch." Saying it stems from "wicca/wicce" is all fine and well, but then again, the equivalent of "witch" in many cultures appears to have negative connotations as poisoners, manipulators, etc.

Circe, commonly referred to and thought of as a Witch, didn't seem all wise and benevolent, but rather spiteful turning men into pigs.

I think both terms are valid if someone chooses to use them.

[xxMatolfxx]

I have a friend who practices in the ways of a modern day witch. He gets offended if you call him a warlock. You do have a valid point. I guess it just depends on how you look at it.

[John 677808]

I am familiar with magic and for the most part I remain unconvinced.

[xxMatolfxx]

Question. What are you not convinced about? The fact exists or what. You are one of the people who have to see it in order to believe it. That is how I use to be.

[DarkHunter]

It'd be kind of a contradiction for the whole "Seeing is believing thing" John, if you really are a Catholic. Faith not sight right?

Personally though, thats a good stance to take. Test magic before you believe in it. Test everything.

[John 677808]

It'd be kind of a contradiction for the whole "Seeing is believing thing" John, if you really are a Catholic. Faith not sight right?

Personally though, thats a good stance to take. Test magic before you believe in it. Test everything.

Not really, I belive there is a God, but the Dimensional and Quantum Physics of our Reality and Universe, prevent things like harry potter magic, being reality. :D

[DarkHunter]

Not really, I belive there is a God, but the Dimensional and Quantum Physics of our Reality and Universe, prevent things like harry potter magic, being reality. :D

Oh good. I would hate for the Dimensional and Quantum Physics of our Reality and Universe to intefere with real magic. But since its only affecting Harry Potter magic, I have no problem with it.

I'm also glad you know everything about the Universe and our Reality in order to state with confidence that God exists and magic doesn't.

[John 677808]

Oh good. I would hate for the Dimensional and Quantum Physics of our Reality and Universe to intefere with real magic. But since its only affecting Harry Potter magic, I have no problem with it.

I'm also glad you know everything about the Universe and our Reality in order to state with confidence that God exists and magic doesn't.

I state what I know, I am not saying you have to except, what I think, however I have never seen anything to suggest real magic exists. I think everything works along rules, set in the Universe by God and running along the lines of Destiny and Luck.

[DarkWolf]

I state what I know, I am not saying you have to except, what I think, however I have never seen anything to suggest real magic exists, I think everything works along rules, set in the Universe by God and running along the lines of Destiny and Luck. ;)
It's not what you "know", though. It's what you "believe". There is a vast difference in meaning.

[John 677808]

It's not what you "know", though. It's what you "believe". There is a vast difference in meaning.

Over the years I have used products from world renowned spell casters and occult sites and they never had any difference on my luck or type of living, as far as I can tell.

I am sceptical, because all I have ever known with the occult is a scam or deadend.

[DarkWolf]

Over the years I have used products from world renowned spell casters and occult sites and they never had any difference on my luck or type of living, as far as I can tell.

I am sceptical, because all I have ever known with the occult is a scam or deadend.
You've missed my point entirely, despite the shortness and clarity of it.

[LV426]

Over the years I have used products from world renowned spell casters and occult sites and they never had any difference on my luck or type of living, as far as I can tell.

I am sceptical, because all I have ever known with the occult is a scam or deadend.
God is the biggest Scam on earth.

[DarkHunter]

Over the years I have used products from world renowned spell casters and occult sites and they never had any difference on my luck or type of living, as far as I can tell.

I am sceptical, because all I have ever known with the occult is a scam or deadend.

"World renowned" spellcasters and occult sites only market magic as a scam. They know its a scam, that a real magical working will come from you and not from whatever it is they happen to be selling you.

Of course some magicians only exist to sell what they are doing. In Vodou practices, its like common practice. Curse your enemies, help your friends.

Of course even if you don't believe, you'll still use basic magic instinctively. Its called "prayer."

[Canis Lupus]

I'm missing that instinct then...

[DarkHunter]

I'm missing that instinct then...

Everybody has it. Its kind of invalidated when you reject the idea of gods unless of course you've studied it and understand the princples enough to get around "gods" which is common enough.

[Shield_Wulf]

God is the biggest Scam on earth.

You read my mind and said what I was afraid say.

[LV426]

I'm never afraid to speak the truth.

[nagowteena]

I believe in magic, don't know to much about it though.

[Canis Lupus]

Magic and gods do NOT exist. No more discussion!
Bob's your uncle! :D

[Shield_Wulf]

Magic and gods do NOT exist. No more discussion!
Bob's your uncle! :D

And that is your opinion. I believe other wise.

[DarkHunter]

Magic and gods do NOT exist. No more discussion!
Bob's your uncle! :D

If you somehow have some argument against the existence of magic that somehow gets around both my defintion of magic and the fact that I've successfully used it, I invite you to post it.

And, speaking from my perspective as God, I must say this:

I do exist.

[xxMatolfxx]

If you somehow have some argument against the existence of magic that somehow gets around both my defintion of magic and the fact that I've successfully used it, I invite you to post it.

For proof of you doing this spell. What kind of spell was it and how do you do it? :cool: Lol. If I didn't ask it someone else would of. Or would they?

[Okami no hi]

Or would they not? Oh, and by the way...LV is the true God. DarkHunter must be teh anti-christ/God. :D

[xxMatolfxx]

ahhh. Ohh well. Lets discuss another side of magic. The summoning side. I know little of this and want to learn more. Not to perform for myself but to just know.

[UNODRAGONE]

ahhh. Ohh well. Lets discuss another side of magic. The summoning side. I know little of this and want to learn more. Not to perform for myself but to just know.
I have to admitt to being a little curious about this myself, is John Edwards considered a summoner since he speaks to the dead?

[DarkWolf]

No. And that's not "magic" but rather "psychic". He says the spirits come to him of their own volition.

Granted it's mostly bollocks, but there you go.

[UNODRAGONE]

No. And that's not "magic" but rather "psychic". He says the spirits come to him of their own volition.

Granted it's mostly bollocks, but there you go.
I agree with you it being bollocks, but exactly what is a summoner then? Or the difference between magic and psychic?

[Okami no hi]

I've heard of a church somewhere in Chicago that summons demons. Not sure if it's true though. I dabble in blood magick (swear to gods, I spell that different every time) but I have never been able to summon anything. Just ended up passing out from too mutch blood loss. But then maybe the summoning happened when I was unconsious or so some would try to have you beleive. Oh, I know. Summoning is real...just play Oblivion.

[MorganaFang]

I've heard of a church somewhere in Chicago that summons demons. Not sure if it's true though. I dabble in blood magick (swear to gods, I spell that different every time) but I have never been able to summon anything. Just ended up passing out from too mutch blood loss. But then maybe the summoning happened when I was unconsious or so some would try to have you beleive. Oh, I know. Summoning is real...just play Oblivion.

Blood magic until fainting... Summoning real because of a damn game...

God I'd hope you're being facetious, though past posts have told me to hold no hope.

Stop it, stop all of it, because none of it does you any good. Blood letting in the majority of cases is pure bollocks created by popular media. There is exceptions, but not really anywhere in the middle class U.S. consciousness and especially at the knowledge of youth who spends too much time on the computer and reading manga. Just no. It's a cry for attention and a lousy one.

Summoning may exists, though I firmly doubt it is similar to any video/computer games.

[Okami no hi]

The Oblivion thing was ment as a joke. And I haven't done any blood magic for awhile now. I said I have dabbled, almost did it again but decided not to. It didn't work the first, most likely won't the second. Also, ever since you and BC were chatting with me I haven't purposly cut myself even once. I thank you for that and though things with my dad haven't gotten any better there are better things to do than resort to cutting. Also I stopped because that Body Mod site was just plain wrong. I don't want to become one of those scarification type peoples. And I could swear some of those were infected. I am just glad I never got an infection and I have, no matter how angry I've gotten, NOT had anymore feeling for bloodletting nor will I let myself anymore. When I have issues I just go talk with my mom and took your advise and am searching for a counsilor. Yes, I know that's not spelled right but my bro has my dictionary at school with him reight now. But as I said, the Oblivion thing was just a joke. Also, what the hell is bollocks???

[DarkWolf]

Bollocks = British slang for "testicles" but has the same meaning as "bullshit".

I would think psychic is using your mind to influence the energy around you. Magic is similar but a much grander scale. More about the whole passing energy out into the Universe by celestial means (calling on deities or spirits or demons to pass this energy to a specific goal is also part of it).

Summoning is calling a sentient entity to your own will. In magic this would be a demon, a spirit (can be the dead but mediumship doesn't summon spirits, the spirits sense the medium and choose to tell that medium things to pass on a message) or the power of a deity depending on the ritual.

My knowledge on this is limited. The majority of my knowledge is some research done years ago and what I learned from friends of mine who were witches (one was also Wicca - yes the two are mutually exclusive).

My comment about it being bollocks isn't to say magic/summoning is impossible or anything but these TV mediums you see - I don't believe them one bit. Especially since I know how they get those messages and info (and it has nothing to do with spirits!).

[Okami no hi]

I agree with DW about the mediums. And don't those messages come from demons or something like that? Thanks for the translation DW, that word was driving me crazy.

[xxMatolfxx]

Summoning is real...just play Oblivion.
Funny. I don't know if it is real or not. I would think it would be making something that wasn't there before. For example summoning a demon from hell to aid you. It is just not limited to just demons though.

[DarkHunter]

"Summoning" suggests some outer spirits to summon. While thats possible, its unlikely. More likely is the idea that you're not summoning demons but rather just granting your own feelings/thoughts a personified form.

[xxMatolfxx]

You could be right.

[Canis Lupus]

Summoning is real.
"Summoning" means you order a person to come to you.

[DarkHunter]

Summoning is real.
"Summoning" means you order a person to come to you.

See you understand magic.

[Okami no hi]

You mean Canis understands summoning, not magick in particular. And to Canis, that was a good one. I was gonna do a joke like that but couldn't find a good way to put it. But you did so bravo. :D Umm...also, what happened to your sheep?

[Gilenea]

Umm.... Are we done here?

Gil

[MorganaFang]

Umm.... Are we done here?

Gil

Yeah probably. If anyone wants a serious conversation we can either open this up again or people can start a new thread.