Can religion evolve?

[DarkMercury]

Ok let's see if we can gather some comments and thoughts from the rest of the peanut gallery. Everyone I hope is familiar with the theory of evolution. Living things evolve. Society evolves. Technology evolves. So what about religion? Is it practical to think that as technology fuels the evolution of society does it not stand to reason that religion would evolve too? The Judeo/Christian link, and the comes Islam. Each one another step in the process, Christians acknowledge that there is a link between both religions. And Islam states that there is a link between Islam and the Judeo/Christian religion. Buddha was originally a Hindu. Sure Wicca and other similar religions can probably be considered the oldest forms of religion. But how accurate are they compared to when the religion was fully practiced and more wide spread? Didn't it go underground when other invading cultures came into rule? Or even stop all together? Then a resurgence .... and acceptance and tolerance of other beliefs. Has wicca changed during this time? Has it evolved with the times or is it still closer to the root basis of the founding religion? If it has so evolved, was this out of necessity? Or was it shaped and guided by mans hand for it to survive or out of arrogance and control? I think possibly both, and I'm talking about most religions, each I think are subject to interpretation and man sees them as they want to. The typical ... my religion is better than yours, my God is more powerful than yours, or you have strayed from the true path. Look at the different factions of Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism and even Islam. So what do you think? Is this enough to comment on and draw criticism or do we need to add more fuel to the fire?

[Xzengrim]

Religion definitely evolves. The principals that define a faith have to change with time. Look at Christianity today, as compared to early Christian doctrine. Not only do the laeity get the eucharist, they get to sit down in the pews, they don't have to memorize the bible, there is much more forgiveness in the faith, they don't hate the Jews any more (or not as much) ... not to mention the women ministers, gay bishops, child molestation and other things.

The church prefers to stand in its original form as long as possible, but it is shaped by cultural, economic, political, and territorial forces that are beyond its control.

As for Wicca, wicca has no roots. It was concocted by British heretics at the turn of the century from historical echoes, legends, romantic imagery, rural tradition, and a bunch of other scraps that came from all over. It's not even really a faith so much as it is a fashion and a way for powerless suburban teenage girls to piss off their parents and pretend that they have magic powers. I think its a fad promoted by television, feminism, and the decline of the Roman Catholic church.

If you're offended, I'm really, truly sorry. I don't mean to hurt anybody; I just thought this would be a good place for this particular opinion. I'd love to discuss it, if you want. PM me if you like. Once again, please don't be angry.

[GoldShadowHunt]

As for Wicca, It's not even really a faith so much as it is a fashion and a way for powerless suburban teenage girls to piss off their parents and pretend that they have magic powers.
from Xzengrin

As a teenager, I laugh. I must tell you that you have hit the nail on the head. And, a personal question to post in a forum I know, but how old are you? I assume you must have either children of your own or be a member of a family housing a teenage girl.

[Ender]

Lets not forget the dye job of jet-black hair, all black/red clothes, and a piercing or two. Followed soon after by a tatoo. This is what American Teenage "Wiccans" do, to as you said, piss off thier fathers.

Adult "Wiccans", as I have read and talked to aren't practicing to piss off thier parents, usually Adult "Wiccans" are leveled headed (By my standards*) enough to hold jobs and relationships with other people, they just beleive in a "Wiccan" theology. Which shouldn't be generilized with pissed off 17 year girls that think jet-black hair makes them cutting edge or unique.

Just as any Realist shouldn't be seen as a whiteguy in a lab coat. Or Christian with a mace shaped like a tampoon chasing teenage girls, or Shaministic people making human-sacrifices.

For the initial post and question, of course Religion evolves. Religion (from the lat. word "ligare" which means to bind or link) is a group of ideas and beliefs, that over time and experience change and adapt to keep up with time and progress.

Lets make a analogy shall we?

Evolution in organisms - Two organisms are born, with mutations (differences). One organism's mutation makes it more likely to survive in the world, therefor, more likely to reproduce organisms with the same mutation. The other organism, has a mutation that makes it less likely to survive, lessening it's chances to reproduce. The organism with the favorable mutation survives, it's genetics continue and the world moves on.

This is similar to Evolution of ideas and beliefs. Two people go through a scenario or experience, and come out with with different ideas based on thier past experiences and what they beleive in. One person has an idea that makes them more likely to survive in life, making them more likely to reproduce, teaching thier offspring thier beleifs. The other persons new idea or belief may hidder thier ability to survive, and reproduce. That person's idea may not survive. Thats one instance of evolution in religion.

Mutation (Change) leads to better suited or hidderment in life (excepted by society), which leads to either other people learning/excepting the change/mutation and it's spreading.

That make sense?

[Xzengrim]

Holy crap! I totally dogged wicca, and two people *agreed* with me! I expected a level ten s**tstorm from angry wiccans! Whew. That's a relief.

I don't live with wiccans, or have any wiccan kids. But I've been in close proximity to them at various points. I have a big long rant about wiccans. But I don't think I'll ever post it, cause I'd get banned.

I have similar thoughts about vampire goths. But that's not really a religion, per se. So I won't comment on it here unless I have to.

[Beserker Cub]

rrrrright...u ran out of lucky...partly...

Wicca has roots, from shamanism. Wicca evolved from Shamanism to become more pleasant and less self-hurting, since shamans did hurt themselves long ago.

So wicca kind of has roots, kinda not...but it definetly has something...*very quick* morethanchristianity has.

It's older than most of the religions there is.


OMG!!! It's the *storm storm* :rolleyes:

[Ender]

Could you please site your resources for that "information" Berserker?

[Beserker Cub]

Could you please site your resources for that "information" Berserker?


Sure thing:

Scott Cunningham: Wicca

Chapter 1


It is said in this book that shamanism was first 'religions'* there was on this planet. And later it tells(or he) that wicca became a religion out of this.

Scott Cunningham was a wicca for 20 years and knows enough about it to write a book. He has passed about 10 years ago.

*Shamanism wasn't really a religion since it was before even the first civilizations, time when our ancestors haven't taken a single step towards this day. (hope you understand)

[DarkHunter]

*nods* Thats why I think everybody should check out shamanism. Kinda see what our ancestors did and how it reflects on us.

Sure religion evolves. Just look at it. Take a look at every religion there is. Most evolutions of religion seem to be a blending of a beliefs into one religion. Take Sikhism in India. Evolved out of blending of Hinduism and Islam. Still though religion evolves. Christianity went from one deal to a collidiscope of many sects. Just to show a few examples.

[Korkov]

yes religon can will and has evolved...im not jewish or anything but look at them for example you have your orthadox jew and then those reformed jews or whatever that are jews who still follow the jewish religion but have "updated it into current times cause if you study orthodoz jewsish religion you will find that most of the do's and dont's of the religon are based on the mid centry era of like way back then like all this cosher stuff was made back then to protect the people from diease that were common but had no cures..and as time went on and LIFE changed some jews realized that it was time to change the religion according to todays time.....hmmm..thats interesting a religion can change ohh so maybe one day it wont be just god in chritan relig. but maybe someday they'll decide that its bill... :D..thats just one reason why i think religon is a waste..{so disreaspct twards anyone just my belif} to me the human species want to have a understanding and explaination everythin and if they dont understand something that they cant figure out they tend to make things up to try and make sense out of it and i think thats man kinds way to explain the "what happens when we die" ? then theres my idea on that topic think back to when u were born now remember the doctor that slapped u on ur ass...no i bet u dont now try and remeber ur 1rst b-day..still cant...see thats cause ur brian hasnt developed any sense of memeory at that point and what i belive is that once the brian ceseas to exist and function or death its just like things u cant remember u dont think u sont breathe u dont live and its like u were never there u die and become nothing..dosnt sound pretty but its what i think

[J.L.R.]

yes religon can will and has evolved...im not jewish or anything but look at them for example you have your orthadox jew and then those reformed jews or whatever that are jews who still follow the jewish religion but have "updated it into current times cause if you study orthodoz jewsish religion you will find that most of the do's and dont's of the religon are based on the mid centry era of like way back then like all this cosher stuff was made back then to protect the people from diease that were common but had no cures..and as time went on and LIFE changed some jews realized that it was time to change the religion according to todays time.....hmmm..thats interesting a religion can change ohh so maybe one day it wont be just god in chritan relig. but maybe someday they'll decide that its bill... :D..thats just one reason why i think religon is a waste..{so disreaspct twards anyone just my belif} to me the human species want to have a understanding and explaination everythin and if they dont understand something that they cant figure out they tend to make things up to try and make sense out of it and i think thats man kinds way to explain the "what happens when we die" ? then theres my idea on that topic think back to when u were born now remember the doctor that slapped u on ur ass...no i bet u dont now try and remeber ur 1rst b-day..still cant...see thats cause ur brian hasnt developed any sense of memeory at that point and what i belive is that once the brian ceseas to exist and function or death its just like things u cant remember u dont think u sont breathe u dont live and its like u were never there u die and become nothing..dosnt sound pretty but its what i think


Evolving? More like devolving...
Biblically look at how the first church was ran, in comparison to how the Roman Catholics highjacked it, and humanized into a dictatorship. Evolving means a gradual change for the better, in that better, it is meant to rise to meet the challenge of the changing world. However, I can't say that the current church is anywhere near the concept of what it was suppose to be. A true church is an organism, not an organization. In the sake of Christianity, if True Christianity = Wolves, then then what we see mostly today are dogs.

As far as making things up.... We have biology books full of that, in the form of the athiestic doctrin of evolution. And no, I don't believe in Evolution because I am a Christian, I didn't believe in it long before I became one. I don't believe in it because it has more loop holes than swiss cheese.
Now don't get me wrong, I can't prove there is a God, and I am content with that, so I don't argue on that matter, however, I do have great disagreement with those who hold the Geological colume as proof of any kind of evolution. Why?
First off the equation lacks several important variables. Variables that are simply overlooked, that shouldn't be.
In short, evolution (fossil style) is reasoned by comparing fossil structures of similar "looking" creatures within different layers. However similarity does not meam relation. To suppose relation just by appearances is both ignorant and ultimately flawed. It is flawed because you don't have DNA, and in short, you don't have the animal itself, a mere photograph, and sadly a poor one of that, of what the animal looked like.
It would be like comparing powder sugar and salt with only two photographs. They LOOK alike, but ultimately are different chemically. But that is fossils. I could go further, with vast amounts of rants on this subject, but this isn't the science forum and I just thought of that so er...sorry...
Oh well, I will continue later in other forum...

[Quicksilver]

I have just a few things to point out...

Yes religion does evolve... here

Judaisim (jews)...evolved to christians... whom evolved to catholics..whom evolved to Lutherans.. whom evolved to a multitude of prodestant churches..which have evolved to microphone toating fire and brimstone preaching televangilists...did I say evolve??

~† Quicksilver †~

[J.L.R.]

I have just a few things to point out...

Yes religion does evolve... here

Judaisim (jews)...evolved to christians... whom evolved to catholics..whom evolved to Lutherans.. whom evolved to a multitude of prodestant churches..which have evolved to microphone toating fire and brimstone preaching televangilists...did I say evolve??

~? Quicksilver ?~

Not so...

Biblically speaking, Judaisim was unfinished, of which was completed by the return of Christ, that is if you take the numerous prophecies as told through out the entire Old Testement, of which spoke about the Massiah's two advents to Earth. The first as a "Lamb" the second as a "Lion." But then again, one would have to read the Bible, to know that.

When I speak of de-evolution, I say people have purposely, taken scripture out of context and twisted it to fullfill their desires, thus taking the said religion away from its true purpose, that is God centered. To me, any time you take my belief away from its purpose, is diffenently not a step in the betterment way.

Look at this. Do you think a dog is an evolved Wolf? No of course not. Dogs are greatly disadvantaged in many ways than wolves. In fact if you keep inner breeding certain species of dogs to get your "pure" breeds, many times the animals suffer from some sort of health problems.

Look evolution as a process, although widely accepted has many errors. Now I am not one of those ding bats that bitch constantly about it being tought in school, because it is a way to look at things, but there are other ways as well.

I don't see things looking in prettier on this planet, nor do I see life "evolving" to catch up with these changes.

My point is, it isn't fare that somebodies interpretation of things, even though it has major flaws in it, tramples my interpretation of things, because somebody says it isn't scientific, all the while they don't have any real proof of true evolution they say has occured. Macroevolution, is what I am talking about. Dinos to Birds, and such. If that is true, then I see no scientific reason, why men can't become true wolves, because if an animal can unconsciously change its genetic coding, then a guy surely could purposely do it.

[ArcaneWolf]

As far as making things up.... We have biology books full of that, in the form of the athiestic doctrin of evolution. And no, I don't believe in Evolution because I am a Christian, I didn't believe in it long before I became one. I don't believe in it because it has more loop holes than swiss cheese.

So does Christianity!

[J.L.R.]

So does Christianity!


Ok... Tell me...where and how?

That I may give an answer. Show me my error, please.

By the way, nice name. :buttrock: