What would jesus really do?

[Okamiotoko]

Commentary: What would Jesus really do?






LINK (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/04/martin.jesus/index.html)

By Roland Martin
CNN Contributor

Editor's note: Roland Martin is a CNN contributor and talk-show host on WVON-AM in Chicago, Illinois. He is the author of "Listening to the Spirit Within: 50 Perspectives on Faith."
NEW YORK (CNN) -- When did it come to the point that being a Christian meant caring about only two issues,­ abortion and homosexuality?
Ask the nonreligious what being a Christian today means, and based on what we see and read, it's a good bet they will say that followers of Jesus Christ are preoccupied with those two points.
Poverty? Whatever. Homelessness? An afterthought. A widening gap between the have and have-nots? Immaterial. Divorce? The divorce rate of Christians mirrors the national average, so that's no big deal.
The point is that being a Christian should be about more than abortion and homosexuality, and it's high time that those not considered a part of the religious right expose the hypocrisy of our brothers and sisters in Christianity and take back the faith. And those on the left who believe they have a "get out of sin free" card must not be allowed to justify their actions.
Many people believe we are engaged in a holy war. And we are. But it's not with Muslims. The real war -- ­ the silent war ­-- is being engaged among Christians, and that's what we must set our sights on.
As we celebrate Holy Week, our focus is on the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. But aren't we also to recommit ourselves to live more like Jesus? Did Jesus spend his time focusing on all that he didn't like, or did Jesus raise the consciousness of the people to understand love, compassion and teach them about following the will of God?
As a layman studying to receive a master's in Christian communications, and the husband of an ordained minister, it's troubling to listen to "Christian radio" and hear the kind of hate spewing out of the mouths of my brothers and sisters in the faith.
In fact, I've grown tired of people who pimp God. That's right; we have a litany of individuals today who are holy, holy, holy, sing hallelujah, talk about how they love the Lord, but when it's time to walk the walk, somehow the spirit evaporates.
A couple of years ago I took exception to an e-mail blast from the Concerned Women for America. The group was angry that Democrats were blocking certain judges put up for the federal bench by President Bush. It called on Americans to fight Democrats who wanted to keep Christians off the bench.
So I called and sent an e-mail asking, "So, where were you when President Clinton appointed Christian judges to the bench? Were they truly behind Christian judges, or Republican Christian judges?
Surprise, surprise. There was never a response.
An African-American pastor I know in the Midwest was asked by a group of mostly white clergy to march in an anti-abortion rally. He was fine with that, but then asked the clergy if they would work with him to fight crack houses in predominantly black neighborhoods.
"That's really your problem," he was told.
They saw abortion as a moral imperative, but not a community ravaged by crack.
If abortion and gay marriage are part of the Christian agenda, I have no issue with that. Those are moral issues that should be of importance to people of the faith, but the agenda should be much, much broader.
I'm looking for the day when Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Joyce Meyer, James Dobson, Tony Perkins, James Kennedy, Rod Parsley, " Patriot Pastors" and Rick Warren will sit at the same table as Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Cynthia Hale, Eddie L. Long, James Meek, Fred Price, Emmanuel Cleaver and Floyd Flake to establish a call to arms on racism, AIDS, police brutality, a national health care policy, our sorry education system.
If they all say they love and worship one God, one Jesus, let's see them rally their members behind one agenda.
I stand here today not as a Republican or a liberal. And don't bother calling me a Democrat or a conservative. I am a man,­ an African-American man ­who has professed that Jesus Christ is Lord, and that's to whom I bow down.
If you concur, it's time to stop allowing a chosen few to speak for the masses. Quit letting them define the agenda.
So put on the full armor of God because we have work to do.
----------------------------------

[West]

In fact, I've grown tired of people who pimp God.

MTV's Pimp My God starring Xzibit, coming soon!

[McKitty]

Holy shit, that's probably the first Christian I've seen in a few months that's earned my respect. Hat's off to him.

[DarkHunter]

Holy shit, that's probably the first Christian I've seen in a few months that's earned my respect. Hat's off to him.


Indeed.

I think Jesus would totally say screw it to the ghettos and crackheads and go after gay marriage.

McKitty, hats off to you. THAT is a kickass avatar.

[Goth Girl]

Finally, another christian who shares some of my veiws and isn't a falsey like most others. Thank you man.

[Tiamot]

That guy makes a good point. The Christian faith has lost footing and has become more about the life of Christ rather than his teachings. That's where the real meat and potatoes are; the TEACHINGS. He spread a message of love and peace, and living by example, not forcing your ideals on others. Nope, I don't claim to be Christian, and the reason for that is because I can't put any faith into the large body of emptiness that the modern Christian church likes to tote. However I do believe in Christ. I don't know or even care if he was real, if he was the son of God, etc... that doesn't matter to me. It was the message that was important. People of any faith can find solid advice within it.

[Vendetta]

Get nailed to a a cross... again.

Either that or star in his own wacky sitcom on Fox (or possibly WB.)

[J.L.R.]

That guy makes a good point. The Christian faith has lost footing and has become more about the life of Christ rather than his teachings. That's where the real meat and potatoes are; the TEACHINGS. He spread a message of love and peace, and living by example, not forcing your ideals on others. Nope, I don't claim to be Christian, and the reason for that is because I can't put any faith into the large body of emptiness that the modern Christian church likes to tote. However I do believe in Christ. I don't know or even care if he was real, if he was the son of God, etc... that doesn't matter to me. It was the message that was important. People of any faith can find solid advice within it.

Well Tiamot, you're not suppose to put your faith in the Church in the first place, nor are you suppose to put your faith in men, but in Christ alone. He is the example. Christianity is a Faith of self, not of congregations, because a congregation can't get you to Heaven...

At any rate, getting back on subject...

The writer makes a pretty good case about the direction of Christianity, and how in many ways the real message of Christ has been lost, due to, and my personal loathing, the transformation of a faith of the heart, into a multimillion dollar organization, of which wasn't the purpose of the early framers, but a direct result of those who sought profit from others beliefs.

You take the likes of Pat Robinson or Jerry Falwell (My Grandfather went to college with him, and he wasn't too impressed back then) who really, to me that is, seem like the Pharisees of Jesus' time, who are so obsessed with applying Biblical Laws and regulations, that they forget about compassion. In short, they just don't seem like nice people themselves.

[Tiamot]

Well Tiamot, you're not suppose to put your faith in the Church in the first place, nor are you suppose to put your faith in men, but in Christ alone. He is the example. Christianity is a Faith of self, not of congregations, because a congregation can't get you to Heaven...

Yes my friend I know this, you're preaching to the choir. ^_^ Yet what you typed still needed to be said, because so many fail to recognise this. But you are hitting at the exact point I was reaching for. As a child it was easy to put the faith in the church, since that's what I saw so many others doing. As an adult, I don't agree with it. I learned as I got older that in truth it wasn't about the group you were with, the building, or the bureaucracy of it all. Unfortunately I still have family members who think that way, and its very hard to get them to understand my reasoning. Be that as it may, my reasoning for not calling myself Christian is partly because I don't agree with the way so many churches do exactly what you pointed out, and put their faith in men, and make it about the congregation,etc. but mainly it is one of simple labels.

And now, getting back to the greater point at hand:

Very well stated JLR. I agree. It seems that it's become about pushing an agenda. Christ never attempted or wanted for people to be converted against their will. And why would any Christian want that? God isn't going to be fooled by those that simply 'act' like a Christian. Living under Christian law is going to make people truly believe in their hearts. I think that pushing an agenda really starts to infringe upon the great gift of free will that we were given. This brings to mind the point that God wants people to love him of their own accord, because they want to do it, not because they are forced and thus hold no true faith. Ultimately it is not up to any religious establishment to determine what is right and wrong for the whole. It is not our place as human beings to judge.

[Goth Girl]

Well said you guys. That's why I really don't even go to church mutch anymore. And aren't you supposed to give offerings to like poor people and to help the church. Yet so may I have been to the offering goes to a frickin expensive car for the pastor even though he had a jaguar to start with. He didn't need a goddamned Hummer.

[RQ]

I'm thinking he'd capitalize his own name... ...Or, you know, just capitalize ON it, since money is the fastest way to influence people in this day and age. We're no longer smallish tribes wandering the desert or conquering each other through foot soldiers. There are too many of us not to use a broader means (YouTube) if you want to spread a message.

[J.L.R.]

Yes my friend I know this, you're preaching to the choir. ^_^ Yet what you typed still needed to be said, because so many fail to recognise this. But you are hitting at the exact point I was reaching for. As a child it was easy to put the faith in the church, since that's what I saw so many others doing. As an adult, I don't agree with it. I learned as I got older that in truth it wasn't about the group you were with, the building, or the bureaucracy of it all. Unfortunately I still have family members who think that way, and its very hard to get them to understand my reasoning. Be that as it may, my reasoning for not calling myself Christian is partly because I don't agree with the way so many churches do exactly what you pointed out, and put their faith in men, and make it about the congregation,etc. but mainly it is one of simple labels.

And now, getting back to the greater point at hand:

Very well stated JLR. I agree. It seems that it's become about pushing an agenda. Christ never attempted or wanted for people to be converted against their will. And why would any Christian want that? God isn't going to be fooled by those that simply 'act' like a Christian. Living under Christian law is going to make people truly believe in their hearts. I think that pushing an agenda really starts to infringe upon the great gift of free will that we were given. This brings to mind the point that God wants people to love him of their own accord, because they want to do it, not because they are forced and thus hold no true faith. Ultimately it is not up to any religious establishment to determine what is right and wrong for the whole. It is not our place as human beings to judge.

However, you shouldn't throw out the church establishment completely, remember, as Scripture says, Jesus died for the church. There are churches that have become more amusement parks and carnivals than what was originally intended, but there are also good churches that work as a family, where everyone lifts each other up and is there for each other. My church, Gospel Baptist Church, here in OKC, is just like that. I personally know everyone that goes there, and they know me. They are more than just friends, but just like family. Originally the church was established to help Christians rally themselves during times of trouble. Pastors could instruct his congregation, and the Christians could grow in Christ. To completely disregard a church due to a few bad eggs is a great injustice to yourself.

I agree about people using Christianity to further their own agendas and designs is wrong, but at the same time, I haven't met a politician Christian or not that didn't have their own agenda they preached. Whether it be Pat Robinson or Al Gore. A lot of people jump on Christianities case about preaching to the masses or forcing everyone to believe what they believe, but there are plenty of cases where the likes of the American Socialists Movement, PETA, and to a lesser extent even Atheists have tried to push their agenda on others. Is any right in what they doing... no... but let us not point too many fingures...

I have a good friend who is an animator. He is a liberal and a firm anti-Christian activist, at least in politics. He berates his home state due to the Christian leaders running his home area, and yet he voted against gay marriage, against abortion... and so on... His whole problem wasn't that they were preaching against what he believed or forcing him to believe something he didn't want to believe in, but the whole problem was that they were indeed Christian.

He agreed with them on several issues, but he despised them for the sole fact that they believed in something he didn't like. Namely God.

When it comes to decided what is right and wrong, ultimately no matter what you decide you are going to step on toes. You are always going to risk stepping on somebody elses beliefs, it is going to happen.

[Tiamot]

Indeed, by far it is not just religious groups that push agendas. However, I chose not to bring that up being that this topic wasn't dealing with PETA or any other number of groups or even individuals who push agendas. Yet you are right on the mark. JLR. If we (as in the lawmaking bodies) listened to and bowed down to every single gripe, we'd wind up living in a pretty drab world. Imagine the air waves being so restricted that the only thing practically allowed on them would be watching/listening to grass grow. Then of course, you'd get some 'anti-grass' coalition trying to stop even that! (Yeah I'm reaching for a humorous extreme here, but I think you all get the picture.) You've got religious groups on one hand trying to push their own faith, and block the faith of others, you have anti-religious groups trying to take faith out of everything, environmental groups trying to save the planet and all the furry creatures, health groups trying to ban twinkies, hydrogenated fats, carbs, proteins, vitamins, or whatever else they feel or seems to be 'unhealthy' at the time, the children's groups that want our kids to remain pure and innocent forever...the list just goes on and on. Should we allow such freedom as to allow anything and everything to inundate society? Probably not. But there is such a fine line there. We, and our governments have a hard task of adjusting our ways and policies to reflect the whims of the whole, yet at the same time must be flexible enough to realize that societies and what they will tolerate will change. To me, that seems the hard part. To have to constantly take a look at our laws and continually update them to better fit into modern society. On the matter of religion, I am very much for the 'separation of church and state' because faith is such an ultra personal thing. No ones relationship with the Almighty is the same as anyone else's, and it should not be up to any government to dictate how the course of that personal relationship should run. Beyond that, if the door is opened too widely to religion, then it is open to all religions and various interpretations of it. Some will be happy, others will not. Those who wish to see more 'god' in government aren't always going to get the type of 'god' that they want.

On one of the matters presented in the opening post of this thread, abortion, I like the way the governor of my state put her feelings on the matter, "While I personally do not believe in abortion, I feel that the matter is one that is between a woman and her doctor." Ultimately, we cannot force anyone do to what we think is the right thing. Right and wrong are often very relative things. If a woman wants to get an abortion, then I feel that the morality of it is one that she has to deal with. It's her choice to make her own choice, and thus she has to deal with whatever consequences arise. If a woman getting an abortion is one of faith, then that matter of faith is between her and God. We can only make choices for ourselves, not others. Even attempting to take the route of, making something illegal so that 'people don't make those mistakes' is a thing that will ultimately fail. Who are we to dictate what mistakes people are allowed to make? Whatever law is there, someone somewhere will still break it. Attempting to ban or make illegal what are personal issues does not remove the choice. It may dissuade people, but in the end it only creates an atmosphere of fear and anxiety surrounding the issue. Imagine, then, those who are already upset about a moral circumstance which has been deemed illegal, and then the amount of additional anxiety and fear piled on because of the legality of it, which may drive them to desperation. Attempting to place judgment upon personal moral issues carries serious risk of making things worse. Leading by example does not mean that you impose the guidance you wish to impart by making contrary behavior impossible. In the end it is not leading by example at all, but forcing. Which brings us full circle back to the matter of imposing judgment and restricting free will.

I think it is a sad state of affairs when people vote against, or bark about an issue based solely on a singular aspect of their leaders. I cannot speak for other's personal preferences or beliefs, but it seems to me that the way a person votes should reflect what they feel is correct for their own reasons and not because they don't like the creed or race of their government leaders. My state's governor is Catholic. So what? Even if she were Muslim, or Wiccan, or any number of other faiths I wouldn't dream of voting in such a way as to spite her beliefs. Nor would I be as ignorant to believe that her personal faith would absolutely have any bearing upon her ability to govern. Christian leaders can be great leaders, or they can be bad leaders. Muslim leaders can be great leaders, or crap leaders, and so on.

And now, JLR, I must address you directly again. What you said about the establishment of Church and scripture is noble. And again, I must say that I know of what you speak and do agree with you. There really ARE good churches out there, and yet there are the 'bad' ones. I cannot hope to be so haughty as to attempt to interpret the Creator's will for mankind as a whole. I can only determine what Will the Creator has for me. No matter how 'good' or 'bad' a church is, some will feel that any certain establishment is right for them, while others don't seem to fit. I remember my own family trying out many churches before they found the one that they currently attend. I remember asking my grandmother when I was very young, why not just go to one and stay there. She said to me, "It's not about the building, or the preacher, honey, but finding a church that is for you, finding the place where God knows that you will be the most productive, and can best do what He wants to you accomplish. When you finally find the place that you need to be, you'll just know it. God has His way of telling you." Do know, I do not by any means 'throw out the church establishment completely.' Do not fear for that my friend! And, I want you to know that I am truly glad that you've found your church family! What a wonderful thing. I know that some people look at others funny when they see that they can take personal joy from the happiness in others. (Yet somehow I feel that you understand me on this, that I really do feel a surge of happiness in knowing that you are happy with your church family.)

[-behemoth-]

So put on the full armor of God because we have work to do.

Well said

[LV426]

Well said

WTF does that mean?

[Goth Girl]

I couldn't agree more with you JLR and Tia. Very well put together, both of you. Though I do think that ones sutch as the president shouldn't let religion get in their way, I agree on with everything else. As Behemoth said, well said.

[DarkHunter]

Perhaps Jesus would invest in one of those nonlethal beanbag guns, but modify it to shoot Bibles. Then he could go around saying, "Hey didn't you read this all the way through?" Getting shot with a Bible would be one hell of a wake up call to some Christians.