Pagan

[Celtic Hill]

What is the difrance between pagan,wicca...

[MorganaFang]

What is the difrance between pagan,wicca...

Think of it like a logic thingie (Anyone who stills does math correct me!)

If you're wiccan, then you are pagan.

However, If you are pagan, then you are not necessarily wiccan.

Wicca is a specific type of paganism. I'd recommend cracking open a book aka encyclopedia or academic source for further elaboration. On the internets you're just going to get a lot of convulsions of both.

[deVersipellis]

Alot of people mistake them.... pagan is someone who is polytheistic.... Wicca is the religion derivied in europe and what you would consider when you here the word "pagan".
As for me I'm Wiccan.

[DarkHunter]

"Pagan" pretty much applies to any religion that isn't Abrahamic. Today it usually refers to people reviving old mythology (Norse, Egyptian, Celtic) as religions.

Wicca is a Pagan religion, usually claiming theological descent from the Druids and "witch-cults" that were persecuted during Europe's inquisition.

[CelticMagick]

Ok, I call my self Pagan/Wiccan but don’t practice it, Is there any good websites for info about Pagan and Wiccan? I want to get serious about it,

[MorganaFang]

Ok, I call my self Pagan/Wiccan but don’t practice it, Is there any good websites for info about Pagan and Wiccan? I want to get serious about it,

If you want to get serious about it, then research a good book.

Sites are a far less reliable source.

[CelticMagick]

If you want to get serious about it, then research a good book.

Sites are a far less reliable source.
Ok than what would be a good book? plus i still don't know the difrance of Pagan and Wiccan.

[MorganaFang]

Ok than what would be a good book? plus i still don't know the difrance of Pagan and Wiccan.

Because you're lazy, how many times (with various names) have you asked the same question without doing your own footwork?

Here since you insist on doing none of your own research, this is a good start: http://www.llewellyn.com/

And please, please work on your spelling, your post in miscdisc is unintelligible.

[CelticMagick]

Because you're lazy, how many times (with various names) have you asked the same question without doing your own footwork?

Here since you insist on doing none of your own research, this is a good start: http://www.llewellyn.com/

And please, please work on your spelling, your post in miscdisc is unintelligible.
thanks,
You don't have to be so rude, i was just wondering, i did wan't an essay... just some main parts, it is that hard to say what the diferance is...

[ThrasherCub]

just some main parts, it is that hard to say what the diferance is...
It's not even remotely hard to tell the difference.

PAGAN:
- A believe system, not a religion, which involves belief of multiple gods or higher spirits.

WICCAN
- A religion which involves watered down Thelemic magick used incorrectly in reverence of misconceived deities.

[MorganaFang]

i was just wondering, i did wan't an essay... just some main parts, it is that hard to say what the diferance is...

I'm rude because despite how many times it has been spelled out for you, you still don't grasp anything.

Like Thrash said it is not hard, at all. If you can't figure out the simple constructs of particular faiths, maybe you should not be claiming to be apart of them or performing rituals from them.

[ThrasherCub]

Not knowing the difference between "pagan" and "wicca" is like not knowing the difference between "dog" and "husky."


I pine for the day when people will realize that paganism isn't a religion.

I also pine for the day when people realize that wicca isn't a religion either, but I'm willing to wait on that one.

[The Dragon-King]

Actually Thrasher, Wicca and paganism are both religions. to say that they aren't is like saying Anarchism is not gov't.

[MorganaFang]

Actually Thrasher, Wicca and paganism are both religions. to say that they aren't is like saying Anarchism is not gov't.

LMAO I hope you're not being serious

[philodox]

Not knowing the difference between "pagan" and "wicca" is like not knowing the difference between "dog" and "husky."


I pine for the day when people will realize that paganism isn't a religion.

I also pine for the day when people realize that wicca isn't a religion either, but I'm willing to wait on that one.
The next question being "What makes a religion a religion?" Does it have to be monotheistic, or can polytheisms apply as well?

[NeonLightChild]

Actually Thrasher, Wicca and paganism are both religions. to say that they aren't is like saying Anarchism is not gov't.

Pagan is a spirituality, it's a polytheistic belief system. NOT a religion.

Wicca is in a similar boat as Pastafari and Scientology: it's made up. Yes it incorporates ELEMENTS of paganism in it, but it is not a religion in and of itself. I'm glad to see that the military here is recognizing it and allowing the pentagram to be put on soldiers' tombstones and on dogtags, but it is NOT a true religion. Maybe it would be if Silver Ravenwolf and whoever else didn't spew their diarrhea into it, who knows.

At least that's IMHO.

[ThrasherCub]

Actually Thrasher, Wicca and paganism are both religions. to say that they aren't is like saying Anarchism is not gov't.
Anarchism ISN'T government, you dip. It's a political stance, and one of the many options in the world of government, but it is in itself a lack of government.

Just like how paganism is a type of religion, but not a religion itself.

The next question being "What makes a religion a religion?" Does it have to be monotheistic, or can polytheisms apply as well?
There are lots of polytheistic religions - what in the world are you talking about?

"Pagan" simply means that the person or belief in question doesn't believe that there's only one super-power, but rather many. It's the same thing as polytheistic, except that pagan now implies animalistic, nature-based, or "primitive" (in a good way) as to the nature of that particular brand of polytheistic beliefs.

Examples and definitions of some theistic views:

Polytheism - The belief in lots of gods.
Henotheism - The belief that there are multiple gods, but that there is a supreme god.
Kathenotheism - A type of Henotheism in which each god is supreme in turn.
Monotheism - The belief in one god.
Monism - The belief that all is god.

And that's the main part of the difference between theistic views and actual religions - with the possible exception of Monism, the moment you actually start to practice any of those beliefs you go past those definitions.

Religions have names for things. They have specific beliefs on the nature and cause of things.

Polytheism says that there are multiple gods. Religions have names for those gods, ideas on what they are gods of, what they look like, how to worship them, etc.

Wicca is in a similar boat as Pastafari and Scientology: it's made up. Yes it incorporates ELEMENTS of paganism in it, but it is not a religion in and of itself.
It incorporates them badly, I might add. Things are randomly spliced together, and gods and goddesses which have NOTHING to do with each other besides their common gender are equated, treated as some conglomo-spirit, and have often times completely fabricated associations in color and whatnot.

Speaking of fabricated color association, I love that wiccan robes are allowed to be any color except black, and may be worn for any occasion.

Black is the only "neutral" color, and given the fact that wiccan magic is entirely free from pathworking and stays within this realm, it is also the most appropriate color.

Idiots.

[DarkHunter]

Anarchism ISN'T government, you dip. It's a political stance, and one of the many options in the world of government, but it is in itself a lack of government.

Just like how paganism is a type of religion, but not a religion itself.


There are lots of polytheistic religions - what in the world are you talking about?

"Pagan" simply means that the person or belief in question doesn't believe that there's only one super-power, but rather many. It's the same thing as polytheistic, except that pagan now implies animalistic, nature-based, or "primitive" (in a good way) as to the nature of that particular brand of polytheistic beliefs.

Examples and definitions of some theistic views:

Polytheism - The belief in lots of gods.
Henotheism - The belief that there are multiple gods, but that there is a supreme god.
Kathenotheism - A type of Henotheism in which each god is supreme in turn.
Monotheism - The belief in one god.
Monism - The belief that all is god.

And that's the main part of the difference between theistic views and actual religions - with the possible exception of Monism, the moment you actually start to practice any of those beliefs you go past those definitions.

Religions have names for things. They have specific beliefs on the nature and cause of things.

Polytheism says that there are multiple gods. Religions have names for those gods, ideas on what they are gods of, what they look like, how to worship them, etc.


It incorporates them badly, I might add. Things are randomly spliced together, and gods and goddesses which have NOTHING to do with each other besides their common gender are equated, treated as some conglomo-spirit, and have often times completely fabricated associations in color and whatnot.

Speaking of fabricated color association, I love that wiccan robes are allowed to be any color except black, and may be worn for any occasion.

Black is the only "neutral" color, and given the fact that wiccan magic is entirely free from pathworking and stays within this realm, it is also the most appropriate color.

Idiots.

Wearing black would be too logical, acknowledging the deeper and more powerful forces of the universe. Along with its connections to so called "misunderstood" deities like Pan.

[CelticMagick]

O, Thanks.. It is stil kinda fuzzy, but i will Gets some books. do you guys sugest anny?

[Nichael]

Just go to the library and ask the person behind the desk that you're looking for stuff about pagan beliefs, Wicca in particular. They'll point you in the right direction. After looking in the right place and a bit of page-peeking, you'll find something useful. Probably more than one book, which would be better as it would provide you with several sources with which to check facts against.

But don't go to the children's section. :D

[ThrasherCub]

O, Thanks.. It is stil kinda fuzzy, but i will Gets some books. do you guys sugest anny?

You hurt my brain.

I am going to assume you mean books on religions of this sort since we've cleared up that "pagan" is not a religion.

And this goes into the same bin as learning about magick - what kind of thing do you want to know? What are you interested in? What things are core to your beliefs?

[---Arawn---]

The next question being "What makes a religion a religion?" Does it have to be monotheistic, or can polytheisms apply as well?

As far as I know, you can divide a belief in three groups:
Religion - It's a group of doctrines under a organized instituction (like the Catholic Church or the Islam)
Sect/Cult - It's a group of doctrines that diverges from a original church (like Calvinism, Lutheranism, Sunnism)
Belief - Any kind of personal or groupal doctrines and philosophy...

So, paganism is a belief system. Likewise, christianity is not a religion, but Catholicism is...

[Anarchistwarrior]

Anarchism ISN'T government, you dip. It's a political stance, and one of the many options in the world of government, but it is in itself a lack of government.

Just like how paganism is a type of religion, but not a religion itself.

Haha, to be perfectly clear: anarchism is the defined ideology popularly associated with anarchists, who are people that advocate for anarchy (a lack of government), and a society that works on anarchist principles, rather than hierarchical ones. Anarchism isn't, in itself, a lack of government; it is just the body of ideas on this topic.

But your definition was pretty good, too. :)

[CelticMagick]

Thanks everyone,, i am kinda grasping it, i will get some books... I think i am leaning more tward Wicca... not shure yet...

I found this site to be helpfull... http://www.magicwicca.com/wicca/main.html

It seemed pretty Legitimate

[MorganaFang]

Thanks everyone,, i am kinda grasping it, i will get some books... I think i am leaning more tward Wicca... not shure yet...

I found this site to be helpfull... http://www.magicwicca.com/wicca/main.html

It seemed pretty Legitimate

It's not.

But sure use it anyway since everything you seem to be about is fraudulent, it would not make a difference.

[CelticMagick]

There you go being rude again,
I took your advice and did some research ... Did I not, I also found some more websites... I am also going to get some books, I am trying on getting better at my spelling so can you try and not be so rude?

[ThrasherCub]

Listen carefully; There is NO information on Wicca which is not incorrect or just plain made-up.

The only exceptions are places that explain that Wicca is full of shit.

Morgana's irritation is pretty reasonable - we've been trying to help you in multiple threads for quite a while now, and you've just announced that you're leaning towards what we explained is utter crap and you're doing your research on a site where if you looked up the origin of anything you'd see how full of crap they both are.

They have the Wiccan Rede, for fuck's sake. The Wiccan Rede is retarded. It ends with some variation on "and it harm none, do what you will."

If you're doing what you will then it can't harm anything, and in fact, is the best thing for the entire universe that you can do.

Anyone who understands the concept of "will" or the origin of that phrase understands that saying "and it harm none" is stupid and would leave it off.

So if those are the kinds of people who don't say it, then obviously those who are are quoting something they don't understand from an unknown origin, meaning that they could be a 12 year old with Down syndrome for all they know.

Wicca = Crap
Wiccan Info = Crap
Wiccans = Uneducated

Keep that in mind next time you do research.

[Tempest]

But don't go to the children's section. :D

I think it might be best for her/him to use the kid's section.

[CelticMagick]

Ok, i did get theat you were saying wicca was crap... got you... so then i will look into Pagan stuff.

[MorganaFang]

Ok, i did get theat you were saying wicca was crap... got you... so then i will look into Pagan stuff.

You know just because you put Scotland there as your location does not give you a get out of jail free card for not trying hard for the poor spelling.

For one because your ip says different, in Scotland they're just as anal about good spelling practices and finally if you're esl, I know several esl folks that spell better then most Americans.

Proof read your post, use spell check, read more books! Anything to get better at writing please! It's like you try for a day but forget the next, or stop caring.

It's like when you asked for another good source in magic again and repeatedly Thrasher has posted links or sources and I have posted a couple.

I'm biased towards the publishing company in MN since when I first was interested in wicca their books taught me a lot. (later mythology class taught me the origin of wicca, morgans, celts and whatever else)

A part of the grand journey of spirituality is finding it for yourself and really LOOKING for YOUR own sources. Libraries (going to several different ones not just one) are great for this. Asking College professors in theology and mythology is also great.

If you can't grow up and quit being such a dimwitted stubborn ass about all this then you will not learn anything and people will consistently be rude to you.

[Tempest]

Ok, i did get theat you were saying wicca was crap... got you... so then i will look into Pagan stuff.

Did you read this thread AT ALL? Seriously we just got through saying that Paganism is a very very broad base. It would be best to narrow it down to something specific because there are few books on Paganism (Paganism for Dummies?) and even fewer that are good. Start by looking at a list of religions and learning the basics of them, then slowly narrow it down to what fits you. A good place to START is http://www.religioustoleran ce.org. Why I am handing you a website I don't know. Maybe cause I am hopeful it will finally help you understand what we are saying.

[ThrasherCub]

FYI, most things labeled as "pagan" are utter crap in all the same ways as wicca. Pretty much nothing serious will ever use the term "pagan" in reference to itself.

[CelticMagick]

Thanks, U did read it but i guess i did't grasp it... thanks for every toloration my stupidity...

[ThrasherCub]

No problem. I'm willing to help pretty much anyone who's willing to just try.

[CelticMagick]

For one because your ip says different, in Scotland


There are towns in the US that are called Scotland, plus when I get older, I am moving to the real Scotland..

[Anarchistwarrior]

Attaching an ", SD" or an ", AK" or whatever state you live in would totally help us all out, then. For example, when I say I come from a place called Sussex, I like to point out that I'm talking about a small Canadian town and not the more famous English city. :)

[MorganaFang]

There are towns in the US that are called Scotland, plus when I get older, I am moving to the real Scotland..

Not where you're from babe, nor do they belong to the uk.

Scotland is pretty, and very great people there so good luck moving in the future if you actually do.

However, it's not a very good practice to misrepresent yourself in such a way where there are actual members from Scotland and Ireland.

[Tempest]

There are towns in the US that are called Scotland

So is that why your location flags show Scotland, United Kingdom?
Not that I believed you were Scottish to begin with. ;)