A Fun Question(s).

[Pathos]

If you were able, by whatever means magical or otherwise, to know, without a doubt, whether God/Allah/Odin/Thor etc, existed, would you really want to know?

And -- what effects would actually knowing have on religion altogether?

[_Grey_]

Well, yeah. I'd want to know.

It'd have a tremendous effect on religion... knowing that god exists would obviously make me non-atheist, at the very least.

But it would no longer be considered "faith"... because you don't have to just trust that it's there...

Other than that, I've got nothing.

_Grey_

[Pathos]

Well, yeah. I'd want to know.

It'd have a tremendous effect on religion... knowing that god exists would obviously make me non-atheist, at the very least.

But it would no longer be considered "faith"... because you don't have to just trust that it's there...

Other than that, I've got nothing.



Why would it make you non-atheist just because God is proven to exist? As you said, it would no longer would be considered faithful for you to believe in God.

What is it that makes you an atheist right now? An overall lack of God? Or a lack of PROOF of God?

[_Grey_]

...

n- Atheist: One who doesn't believe in a god.

If god was proven real, I would in fact believe in him.

I only meant that instead of just being faith, it would be considered "using your head".

And I only don't believe in him because the bible doesn't make sense. It seems to be written from the perspective of an egocentric human. Therefore... if it was proven that god was real, rather than having me believe in what some guy 2000 someodd years ago wrote in some scrolls, I would obviously be religious.

Whether or not I'd worship god himself, though, is questionable.

_Grey_

[Pathos]

...

n- Atheist: One who doesn't believe in a god.

If god was proven real, I would in fact believe in him.

I only meant that instead of just being faith, it would be considered "using your head".

And I only don't believe in him because the bible doesn't make sense. It seems to be written from the perspective of an egocentric human. Therefore... if it was proven that god was real, rather than having me believe in what some guy 2000 someodd years ago wrote in some scrolls, I would obviously be religious.

Whether or not I'd worship god himself, though, is questionable.

_Grey_

I'm just curious why becoming a Christian when God's existence is proven is considered "using your head."

Because if God's exists, then so does Heaven and Hell? Is that what would motivate you?

And yes. I suppose to some people the Bible doesn't make sense and you have to have a little faith in the scripture to believe in it.

I think Christianity would fall apart if God's existence is proven.

Because that would mean the Devil is real too and people are far more afraid of the Devil than God.

I imagine alot of people will adopt the Yezedi's point of view and worship the Devil while on earth because God is all-forgiving and will let them into heaven when they repent.

Right?

[_Grey_]

Why?

Obviously all Christians believe in the devil as much as they believe in god right now, without proof of their existence.

So why would they start worshiping the devil, when they were already with god?

Personally, I would be more afraid of god's wrath. If god was real, and all in the bible was also proven, then he's killed more than the devil.

It wouldn't make sense to side with the devil.

And yes, it would be "using your head" if god was proven and you decided to be Christian. I want to not burn in hell, thank you very much.

_Grey_

[Pathos]

Why?

Obviously all Christians believe in the devil as much as they believe in god right now, without proof of their existence.

So why would they start worshiping the devil?

No sense at all.

And yes, it would be "using your head" if god was proven and you decided to be Christian. I want to not burn in hell, thank you very much.

_Grey_

There is proof of the Devil everywhere. You would have no problem believing the devil existed. It's God existence that you have trouble seeing.

I think people would start worshipping the Devil, whether literally or metaphorically, because fear is a much bigger motivator than faith. Temptation versus abstinence is the age old struggle, and from personal experience immediate gratification through the seven deadly sins is much more likely than ethereal ascension to heaven upon death.

Don't let the fire and brimstone stuff scare you. Can you imagine the caliber of person it would take to get into heaven? I can almost guarantee you and all your friends will be with you in hell.

[_Grey_]

Not true.

If god was real, then the entire bible would be proven. Therefore, Jesus really did die so that we could be forgiven. It wouldn't take a high caliber person to make it to heaven.

And what proof of the Devil? As far as I can tell, there's no such thing. Maybe some "evil energy" of a sort, but no Devil.

Trying to prove Satan is like trying to prove God... you can't do it until you die, but when you die it's too late anyway.

Oh, and I changed my above post. Do a good re-read.

_Grey_

[Pathos]

Not true.

If god was real, then the entire bible would be proven. Therefore, Jesus really did die so that we could be forgiven. It wouldn't take a high caliber person to make it to heaven.

And what proof of the Devil? As far as I can tell, there's no such thing. Maybe some "evil energy" of a sort, but no Devil.

Trying to prove Satan is like trying to prove God... you can't do it until you die, but when you die it's too late anyway.

Oh, and I changed my above post. Do a good re-read.

_Grey_

Do you think you're going to make it to heaven?

Proof of the devil? If they both existed, He would make proof. The Mark of the Beast or whatever else in Revelations.

And that's all assuming that the Bible is even correct.

And -- assuming that God's presence doesn't indicate some sort of armageddon.

[_Grey_]

Do you think you're going to make it to heaven?
If god is proven real, and I decide to join him, yes.

Proof of the devil? If they both existed, He would make proof. The Mark of the Beast or whatever else in Revelations.

Well yeah.

And that's all assuming that the Bible is even correct.

Which it would be if god was proven. Which is your question. Unless god allowed somebody to write what he didn't want written. Then all that would be different.

And -- assuming that God's presence doesn't indicate some sort of armageddon.

Where'd you get that? All I said is that I'd rather not burn in hell. Do I have to prove god to prove that I can die?

_Grey_

[Pathos]

Where'd you get that? All I said is that I'd rather not burn in hell. Do I have to prove god to prove that I can die?

_Grey_

I was just taking my question a step further. I figure that if God's existence were ever to be seen or proven, then it would probably be during the Apocalypse.

[_Grey_]

You could have put that in question form.

Woulda made it clearer.

But... you also stated that if you could figure out if god was real by any method, would things be different. Armageddon is not my first idea of "any method", especially since it wouldn't allow for repent.

However, if god appeared in such an apocalypse and that is how I figured it out, then I'm going to hell anyway. I really don't think it matters, especially since I don't believe in hell, heaven, jesus, god, or satan...

I believe in the soul, though.

_Grey_

[Pathos]

You could have put that in question form.

Woulda made it clearer.

But... you also stated that if you could figure out if god was real by any method, would things be different. Armageddon is not my first idea of "any method", especially since it wouldn't allow for repent.

However, if god appeared in such an apocalypse and that is how I figured it out, then I'm going to hell anyway. I really don't think it matters, especially since I don't believe in hell, heaven, jesus, god, or satan...

I believe in the soul, though.

_Grey_

Well, sure. I do agree that this entire topic is entirely moot.

[_Grey_]

Until some other person comes in here - preferably Christian - yes. It is a moot topic.

_Grey_

[BlackRosePhantom]

Until some other person comes in here - preferably Christian - yes. It is a moot topic.

_Grey_

Sorry, not Christian. I'm an atheist as well, Greg.

Why?

Obviously all Christians believe in the devil as much as they believe in god right now, without proof of their existence.

So why would they start worshiping the devil, when they were already with god?

Personally, I would be more afraid of god's wrath. If god was real, and all in the bible was also proven, then he's killed more than the devil.

It wouldn't make sense to side with the devil.

And yes, it would be "using your head" if god was proven and you decided to be Christian. I want to not burn in hell, thank you very much.

_Grey_

At any point, I'd say that you'd still go to hell just for the reason that you even needed proof in the first place and couldn't believe in him otherwise. Faith would still exist, it would be your ticket to heaven, and for the rest, they'd just go to hell. Also, even if god exist, that doesn't mean that the devil exist as well. The Jewish people don't believe in a devil yet still believe in a god, and what is Christianity except for a BS copy of Judaism.

[_Grey_]

Exactly. (Although that's not what I said, that's what I was thinking)

So it wouldn't make a difference in my life, unless he allowed me forgiveness on account of the fact that most people's faith falter at some time of their life.

Unless they are extremely passive and do whatever people tell them to do, without ever even thinking "no" or "that doesn't make sense". I am not that way, though.

_Grey_

[Aeolus]

If you were able, by whatever means magical or otherwise, to know, without a doubt, whether God/Allah/Odin/Thor etc, existed, would you really want to know?

And -- what effects would actually knowing have on religion altogether?

I would, but I'd kill myself before I told anyone.

Most Christians do KNOW, and that is why they dont care what some stuffy beareaucrat or historian has to say, most historians are biased, even my History teachers can tell you that (any one of them, they all have at least a Master's). Further, they dont concern themselves with the opinions of scientists, because a lot of scientists cannot demonstrate the formation of the universe.

If Christians had more physical proof (many of them already do, but not in the abundance that it would impress atheists) they would be more upset, more controlling, and more self-righteous. Rather than having to demonstrate and apollogize their beliefs, YOU all would be obliged to listen to them more often if they could give you this 'proof'.

I dont think that is the way God wanted it.

[DarkWolf]

If you were able, by whatever means magical or otherwise, to know, without a doubt, whether God/Allah/Odin/Thor etc, existed, would you really want to know?You put Thor there?! That's an odd mix (almighty, almighty renamed, father of gods, lesser god with very limited power compared to previous). Anyway, yes I'd be curious and would like it know.

what effects would actually knowing have on religion altogether?Just because I knew would not mean other religions would know. If it backed up their claims they'd say "we already knew, duh" but if it didn't they'd say "you're a liar, begone heathen". So, the effects on religion would be "none". Personally, also none. I'd still live my life as I have. Even if it was the bible-god and the bible was true in every aspect so be it. I don't give a shit either way and the proven god dislikes it he can bring his wrath - I'd do what I could to spit in his face. If he does like it - yay, and I'd continue as normal. Ultimately, the knowledge is sated curiosity and nothing more.

Because that would mean the Devil is real too and people are far more afraid of the Devil than God.Why? God's existence doesn't mean the bible was right - just that the deity they had imagined existed. Nothing about that says the rest was true. Personally I fail to understand why people would fear the Devil more anyway since it was God who created the Devil and made the Devil what he is. He's a god who created sin and gave us free will but condemns us to hell if we choose a life he doesn't like? I'd sooner shag the Devil than smile at such a God - he's far worse. But that's just how I view things.

--

Why all the focus on Christianity anyway? You left it open for the other gods. What if Odin and/or his son Thor were real? They have nothing to do with Christianity in any slightest way. Or what of Zeus/Jupiter, who also was very different? There's many different gods that are just as possible than the Christian god, you know, and the question did leave it open (and was even heavy on the Norse myths since two of the four examples were Norse myth).

[Pathos]

Why all the focus on Christianity anyway? You left it open for the other gods. What if Odin and/or his son Thor were real? They have nothing to do with Christianity in any slightest way. Or what of Zeus/Jupiter, who also was very different? There's many different gods that are just as possible than the Christian god, you know, and the question did leave it open (and was even heavy on the Norse myths since two of the four examples were Norse myth).

Alright. Good point.

What if Valhalla awaited us all after we died? What if the Norse mythology was real?

Would life become a giant LARP D&D session? Would we find a way to mix modern day technology and norse myths?

I really have no idea what would happen because I'm (obviously) not well versed with Norse or Greek mythology.

[_Grey_]

We'd only go to Valhalla if we were slain gloriously in battle... we'd have to die a war hero, pretty much.

I've studied Norse mythology for a while, considering that's where Fenrir and the other giants-in-the-shape-of-wolves come from.

However, if that were the actual case and not christianity being proven, then that would mix things up a bit. Imagine... every Greek (or roman, seeing as how close these are) or Norse myth being proven... that would mean that we had a whole hell of a lot of magic going on.

Not to mention, if Greek mythology was proven, we'd have gods on top of a mountain. Which I suppose would make it easy to (dis)prove.

_Grey_

[UNODRAGONE]

First off I'm not a Christian so sorry on that one but I wouldn't want to know, I have faith in God and having faith means you don't need proof and like DW said, it wouldn't change the way I am knowing either way.

Because that would mean the Devil is real too and people are far more afraid of the Devil than God.

I fear no one least of all the Devil and I don't believe people fear him more.

I imagine alot of people will adopt the Yezedi's point of view and worship the Devil while on earth because God is all-forgiving and will let them into heaven when they repent.

One word, Judas

Obviously all Christians believe in the devil as much as they believe in god right now, without proof of their existence.

The smart ones do

Trying to prove Satan is like trying to prove God... you can't do it until you die, but when you die it's too late anyway.

Thank God someone said it