Do you believe in the devil?

[sai-fujiwara]

Do you believe in the devil or not? Or do you believe in something like it?

A greater Evil perhaps?

Just a simple question asked out of curiosity. You can take it however way you want.

[DarkWolf]

You've been here long enough to know about the rules and even the smallest facet of common sense would tell you this belongs in religion (what with the Devil being a religious concept).

Naughty! *cookie pelt*

Anyway, my beliefs in the devil are the same as my beliefs in god: I don't give a flying rat's arse.

[sai-fujiwara]

You've been here long enough to know about the rules and even the smallest facet of common sense would tell you this belongs in religion (what with the Devil being a religious concept).

Naughty! *cookie pelt*

Anyway, my beliefs in the devil are the same as my beliefs in god: I don't give a flying rat's arse.
I figured out my mistake after I posted it. Sorry.

[DarkWolf]

I figured out my mistake after I posted it. Sorry.
Then why repeat it after this one with the new thread with the same mistake?

[Shalinda]

I believe in the devil, because i am the devil, and so are everyone else on this planet, the devil is the bad side in every person ^^ and NO ONE is completely good, no matter what

But, its only bad in someones eyes, to me its just my natural instincts and lusts, nothing evil about it, but that is still "the devil" in me ^^

[sai-fujiwara]

Then why repeat it after this one with the new thread with the same mistake?
I'm stupid, that's why.

[BlackRosePhantom]

I'm stupid, that's why.

Yes, yes you are stupid. You must be really stupid in order to admit that. No, I don't believe in any devil.

[Layira Aura]

I don't necessarily believe in THE devil. I believe in an evil power, but I think it can come in many forms...and not just physical ones either. Like spiritual forms and the like.

[Abracadabra]

Anyway, my beliefs in the devil are the same as my beliefs in god: I don't give a flying rat's arse.

Damn Straight

if there is a Devil and i upset him well screw it!

[Aeolus]

I don't necessarily believe in THE devil. I believe in an evil power, but I think it can come in many forms...and not just physical ones either. Like spiritual forms and the like.

Sounds pretty much like the devil.

I do, and in a traditional sense, not the insane friendly one that seems to be so popular amongst the self-proclaimed 'educated'.

[Tempest]

I do, and in a traditional sense, not the insane friendly one that seems to be so popular amongst the self-proclaimed 'educated'.

What.......?
A friendly devil huh? Haven't heard of it. Guess I should get out more.


And no I don't believe in the devil, no matter how friendly he may be.

[Aeolus]

What.......?
A friendly devil huh? Haven't heard of it. Guess I should get out more.


And no I don't believe in the devil, no matter how friendly he may be.

I was exagerating a little, but some believe he isn't evil and represents some semi-benevolent being here. It's just another annoying fad.

[wyrm-takes-last]

Sounds pretty much like the devil.

I do, and in a traditional sense, not the insane friendly one that seems to be so popular amongst the self-proclaimed 'educated'.

First of all, wtf aereolus???

Second, yes I do believe in the devil, I don't have a choice really, because you see I am the devil. So many people will make their own gods and devils, but I became the devil I created. By accident really, you see, I used to believe in a strict good and evil, however it was reveiled to me that what one consideres evil another may consider good.

If there is indeed some pretty-boy fallen angel that rules hell, then I'm on his side anyway, all of his life, he simply wanted to be different, he wanted to make people worthy of gods love, he wanted people to enjoy themselves, and for that he was thrown into hell, which he soon made his own paradise of anti-worship. I've always taken the underdogs side, and what could be a more supposedly one-sided fight than satan and his renegades and the divine forces of heaven?

[Aeolus]

First of all, wtf aereolus???

Second, yes I do believe in the devil, I don't have a choice really, because you see I am the devil. So many people will make their own gods and devils, but I became the devil I created. By accident really, you see, I used to believe in a strict good and evil, however it was reveiled to me that what one consideres evil another may consider good.

If there is indeed some pretty-boy fallen angel that rules hell, then I'm on his side anyway, all of his life, he simply wanted to be different, he wanted to make people worthy of gods love, he wanted people to enjoy themselves, and for that he was thrown into hell, which he soon made his own paradise of anti-worship. I've always taken the underdogs side, and what could be a more supposedly one-sided fight than satan and his renegades and the divine forces of heaven?


These are, of course, all very sound reasons to believe in the devil as a friendly rebel... :p

[_Grey_]

No.

I don't believe in the devil.

...

...

Wow, I thought for sure there would be more to say... guess not.

_Grey_

[Aeolus]

We've already burned the subject out on other threads I guess.

[sai-fujiwara]

We've already burned the subject out on other threads I guess.
Yep, and out of pure boredom you choose to post in my thread.

I'll take a moment to thank whoever moved my threads to their appropriate places on the religious thread.

[Aeolus]

Yep, and out of pure boredom you choose to post in my thread.

Who said that? I just gave two cents without a lot of verbage.

[sai-fujiwara]

Who said that? I just gave two cents without a lot of verbage.
I wasn't being serious when I said that.

[Tempest]

I was exagerating a little, but some believe he isn't evil and represents some semi-benevolent being here. It's just another annoying fad.

Ok I lied I shouldn't get out more, YOU should.

[DarkHunter]

Absolutely. Of course my definition is definitely different. I don't believe in absolute forces of good and evil. I haven't observed a truly objective form of good or evil yet to tell the truth.

I do believe in the inspirer of all great movements, growth, change, and life that is Satan and is symbolized by the archetype that we know best as the Devil.

And I am my own Devil when you come down to it.

[ulfheadnar]

What if the devil and the whole concept of "evil" is basically a part to play cast by god? In order for there to be a balance there has to be light and dark, good and evil. Maybe the devil is simply the angel that god chose to be the "adversary" for eternity. How would you like that job? Maybe all the stories of the fall were made up to cast the devil in a bad light in order for him/it to better play the part?

From all I've read about the nature of angels, they are a created being without man's ability to self determine actions. If that's the case, then the devil was created to be... (drum roll) The Devil.

[BlackRosePhantom]

What if the devil and the whole concept of "evil" is basically a part to play cast by god? In order for there to be a balance there has to be light and dark, good and evil. Maybe the devil is simply the angel that god chose to be the "adversary" for eternity. How would you like that job? Maybe all the stories of the fall were made up to cast the devil in a bad light in order for him/it to better play the part?

From all I've read about the nature of angels, they are a created being without man's ability to self determine actions. If that's the case, then the devil was created to be... (drum roll) The Devil.

That is a weird way of looking at it, yet your weird sense makes perfect sense when thinking about it.

[Hamster_Mommy]

I believe good and evil are subjective, yet defined at the same time, a duality. I do believe in the devil, or a higher evil.

[sai-fujiwara]

Absolutely. Of course my definition is definitely different. I don't believe in absolute forces of good and evil. I haven't observed a truly objective form of good or evil yet to tell the truth.

I do believe in the inspirer of all great movements, growth, change, and life that is Satan and is symbolized by the archetype that we know best as the Devil.

And I am my own Devil when you come down to it.
I do ask whether or not you people believe in the "devil", but I really asked whether or not you believe in something like the devil, a greater evil, etc.

I am glad that you all are taking time to answer my question, but I will ask one thing-- for those of you who answered "I am the devil" or "I make my own devil", etc., just out of curiosity sake, can you all go further and give me an example or a reason as to why you said it?

At times like these, I would say that I know what you mean, except that in this case that would be a lie.

[Aeolus]

I definitely do. Good and evil definitely exist, but since they do not always make themselves physically apparent, they can be hard to understand. They do exist, and understanding them will keep us in our boundaries so that we do not violate the world and ourselves.

I prefer to believe that the Bible has the best description on good and evil and that is where I will continue to take my guidance from.

[Locksmyth]

Maybe the devil is simply the angel that god chose to be the "adversary" for eternity.Satan is such an angel, sent down to test mankind and tempt us.
Lucifer is the angel that tried to over throw the throne and was cast down. These two angels are often confused and mistakenly the two names are given to the same entity.

[Aeolus]

That's interesting thought, there, locksmyth. Most folks use the conflation of the devil with the angel Lucifer as an example that there is no devil. Others have very bazarre and relative ideas of him because of this confusion.

I dont think it's such a bad idea to say that they're one and the same, but it can be confusing. We are aware that there is an ultimate evil, however, and the devil is the one used to represent this in Judeo-Christian thought.

[wyrm-takes-last]

That's interesting thought, there, locksmyth. Most folks use the conflation of the devil with the angel Lucifer as an example that there is no devil. Others have very bazarre and relative ideas of him because of this confusion.

I dont think it's such a bad idea to say that they're one and the same, but it can be confusing. We are aware that there is an ultimate evil, however, and the devil is the one used to represent this in Judeo-Christian thought.

Evil can't exist pup. What's evil to you might be good to another. True true, evil exists on a personal level, but not on a universal level.

[Aeolus]

What's evil to you might be good to another.

Corey is a good musician. I would agree. (;) ;) , hint hint, nudge nudge)

[DarkHunter]

I do ask whether or not you people believe in the "devil", but I really asked whether or not you believe in something like the devil, a greater evil, etc.

I am glad that you all are taking time to answer my question, but I will ask one thing-- for those of you who answered "I am the devil" or "I make my own devil", etc., just out of curiosity sake, can you all go further and give me an example or a reason as to why you said it?

At times like these, I would say that I know what you mean, except that in this case that would be a lie.

In my view, gods and devils are just externalizations of human traits and qualities. God and the angels represents what we consider good in us. The Devil and demons is what we personally consider bad. I accept myself for who I am though and don't feel the need to externalize these qualities. I am who I am. So I recognize qualities that would normally be externalized as demons and devils as a part of me and am my own Devil.

Put then, I wouldn't always call these things bad even if they are traditionally.

[Cheater388]

I'm stupid, that's why.

Satan did it! [points]

Anyways, I think the devil is misunderstood. He just believes in different stuff.

[sai-fujiwara]

Satan did it! [points]

Anyways, I think the devil is misunderstood. He just believes in different stuff.
Whoever said that he was?

According to my belief, the only misunderstanding that happened was he thought he could do a better job than god, and tried very hard to take god's place.

[DarkHunter]

Whoever said that he was?

According to my belief, the only misunderstanding that happened was he thought he could do a better job than god, and tried very hard to take god's place.

Or perhaps the misunderstanding is our own and the Christian Satan is knowingly doing God's work?

[Aeolus]

Or perhaps the misunderstanding is our own and the Christian Satan is knowingly doing God's work?

I doubt that he is knowingly doing it, but I think that God has taken advantage of his rebellion for use in his plan.

[BlueScorpion]

Do I believe in the devil? of course i believe he exists! how else do you explain 9/11 or any other horrible things happening?

Do I "FOLLOW" the devil? never on my life!

[YoungFang]

Do I believe in the devil? of course i believe he exists! how else do you explain 9/11 or any other horrible things happening?

Do I "FOLLOW" the devil? never on my life!

Well I would say that people chose to do it unless you mean all negative sides of human nature is the devil. Could you not also say god is evil because he did not stop it?

[BlueScorpion]

Well I would say that people chose to do it unless you mean all negative sides of human nature is the devil. Could you not also say god is evil because he did not stop it?

its the devil side of people that create bad people, and bad things to happen. Also, everybodies viewpoint on "god(s)" is different. I personally don't believe in "The" god, but i do believe in some form of higher power. (Yes, I am Agnostic.)

[david kesler]

I believe in the devil, because i am the devil, and so are everyone else on this planet, the devil is the bad side in every person ^^ and NO ONE is completely good, no matter what

But, its only bad in someones eyes, to me its just my natural instincts and lusts, nothing evil about it, but that is still "the devil" in me ^^
the devil in me is the god in you should i feel lost somehow.do i feel less than thou.could i be less undone.could i fall deeper down.will you see me there.

[Gilenea]

Do I believe in the devil? of course i believe he exists! how else do you explain 9/11 or any other horrible things happening?

Guns don't kill people. Satan kills people.

Gil

[Pickle Tickler]

Of course I believe that the devil exists. I don't believe in him of course.

[dracosn]

I believe that something has to exist as a form of evil d(evil). Yea I know that is pretty corny but I haven’t seen anyone else post it so there it is.

I would guess that anyone that would believe in a god or some form of good that they would have to believe in a evil counterpart because both forms are found everywhere both good and evil. And yes I know that both good and evil are both subjective so I won’t go any further.

[Dämonisch]

“The Devil” is nothing more than an older god Christians modified slightly so they could justify persecuting pagans.

[UNODRAGONE]

The Devil is a title given to the supernatural being, who, in mainstream Christianity, Islam, and other religions, is believed to be a powerful, evil entity and the tempter of humankind.



Based on the definition, no. I think we lable people who are 'evil' or do 'evil things' as the devil to give an excuse to the beast in all of us, our other darker side. I think it is a label we use to hide behind.

Now looking at it from this point of view

In mainstream Christianity, God and the Devil are usually portrayed as fighting over the souls of humans, with the Devil seeking to lure people away from God and into Sheol. The Devil commands a force of lesser evil spirits, commonly known as demons.



I think that anything good has a evil counter part to it not necessarily the devil :)

[greggchamberlain]

I believe in the devil, because i am the devil, and so are everyone else on this planet, the devil is the bad side in every person ^^ and NO ONE is completely good, no matter what

But, its only bad in someones eyes, to me its just my natural instincts and lusts, nothing evil about it, but that is still "the devil" in me ^^

not sure if this poster is kidding. my opinion, this type of attitude is a cop-out, a claim to "instinct" or the original existentialist philosophy as Sartre, Camus and the like purported to follow.

such sophistry excuses bad behaviour by claiming that it is all "relative" to the situation, society and/or the individual.

me, i figure the Zoroastrianist concept of
Ahura-Mazda and Ahriman best explains humanity as far as our relationship with God and the Devil as entities.

Ahura-Mazda and Ahriman are two sides of a single cosmic being. think of it as like yin-yang, positive and negative, creative and destructive forces. which of the two becomes ascendant for the individual depends on choice.

that is what Good and Evil are all about. choice. it is what YOU decide to do, YOUR responsibility. and responsibility implies acceptance of the consequences of an action.

which is what the Golden Rule (whether Christian or Buddhist or Confucian) is all about. "Do to others what you would have others do to you." make your choice, but remember that you are responsible for the consequences of your choice, and those consequences may not be limited to just you.

the satanist's creed, "Do as you will", to my mind is the epitome of egotistical selfishness. it refuses to accept responsibility for anything and that is truly Evil and representative of The Devil.

[Pickle Tickler]

“The Devil” is nothing more than an older god Christians modified slightly so they could justify persecuting pagans.

Show us evidence.

[LV426]

I was exagerating a little, but some believe he isn't evil and represents some semi-benevolent being here. It's just another annoying fad.

So how do you know the devil is bad? Who's to say that the devil is everything evil in the world? I don't remember there being a study on what the devil in responsible for.

[greggchamberlain]

So how do you know the devil is bad? Who's to say that the devil is everything evil in the world? I don't remember there being a study on what the devil in responsible for.

well, in Jewish tradition (both Talmudic and folkloric), Samael (Satan to us gentile ignoramuses :D ) was not so much evil as rebellious. that was the reason he got kicked out of Heaven and ended up down in Sheol is because his pride would not allow him to take second-place to anyone, not even God. if i recall correctly, this is summarized in the Book of Isaiah. or maybe Ezekiel (once he gets over with his UFO observations.)

after that his alias became The Tempter and that was his occupation as the Book of Job explained. he went up and down the four corners of the world, observing humans at their pastimes and "whispering in their ear" about things maybe they could do and get away with if they just had the chutzpah. then, after they died, he would report their actions and they would receive the punishment in the afterlife that they did not receive in this life.

s'a dirty job but, hey, somebody got to do it.

could be worse. look at the job Azrael got stuck with. :D

Christians and Muslims are the ones who took Samael and made him Satan/Shaitan, the Arch Enemy of God and all humankind. and the Christian church created his cloven-footed, forked-tailed, horn-headed image by adapting the form of the satyrs and wood-godling Pan and also Cerunnos of the Celtic/Gaelic earth religion.

[LV426]

Right but all of these texts were written by man. It's all just made up. So basically the devil is imaginary.So neither good nor evil.

[Wolfx]

Right but all of these texts were written by man. It's all just made up. So basically the devil is imaginary.So neither good nor evil.

You cant rightfully say that. Just because something was written by man doesn't mean it is made up. Your saying I can't right anything true because im "man"?

[BlackDeiny]

You cant rightfully say that. Just because something was written by man doesn't mean it is made up. Your saying I can't right anything true because im "man"?

It's just that assertions made by humans are naturally unreliable. For better or worse, wouldn't you want hard evidence rather than someone's (written) opinion to put the defendant in a murder trial in jail for life?

To answer the original question, no, I don't believe in the Devil, or God either for that matter. If there really is some higher power out there, that's still up in the air for me.

I do believe that negative forces need to exist, however, to create balance. I don't believe in the traditional sense of 'good' or 'evil'; just necessary opposing forces - after all, the building blocks of matter - protons and electrons - are necessary opposing forces, and there is nothing sinister about that.

Everyone is always upset when events that oppose their desires ('bad things') happen, but they're kind of what makes life worth living, and remind you that you're alive. If nothing 'bad' ever happened it would be really boring after a while, and you'd become detached from your environment. When 'bad' things happen it makes you closer to what you care about in fear of losing it. The struggle against fear is what gives life reason - and is the force required to do new and creative things you would never have done otherwise and build character.

Just think of all of the books and movies you've ever read/watched. If there was nothing to oppose the protagonist, what interest would there be in reading/watching the characters perform some mundane tasks that always turned out perfectly?

Opposing forces need to exist to stir up the world, keep people on their toes, and give them something to work towards.

[DarkHunter]

You cant rightfully say that. Just because something was written by man doesn't mean it is made up. Your saying I can't right anything true because im "man"?

She's saying its not anything other than what we think and if we happened to think something differently, then that would be just as valid. Its manmade, made up. Not divine or inspired or any of that mess.

[greggchamberlain]

valid point regarding perspective.

has anyone read the Harlan Ellison short story based on the observation that if one viewed all the events as depicted in the Bible that were the result of divine intervention "one would come to the conclusion that God is a malign thug"? features interesting speculation regarding the roles of Jesus and Prometheus in the world.

[Aeolus]

Right but all of these texts were written by man. It's all just made up. So basically the devil is imaginary.So neither good nor evil.

That's strongly an opinion. The Bible is one of the oldest texts to date and actually, it is quite substantial as far as historical accounts go. 'It's all just made up' is a purely durrogatory statement, and shouldn't be taken for granted, as it quite obviously has been in this case.

[Lysander]

the devil's greatest trick was convincing the world he didnt exist.

[DarkHunter]

That's strongly an opinion. The Bible is one of the oldest texts to date and actually, it is quite substantial as far as historical accounts go. 'It's all just made up' is a purely durrogatory statement, and shouldn't be taken for granted, as it quite obviously has been in this case.

Historical fiction is still fiction. If someone wants to take the stance that the Bible is fictional, there's nothing wrong with that. Its only substantial in relation to some of the people who were alive and the places. Events aren't as substantially proven.

But then I think the earlier statement was directed at religious texts in general.

An interesting take on the Devil was actually provided by Anne Rice, who asserted that the Devil was playing the benefactor of humanity (quite like Prometheus) and that hell was a place where people faced their own evils and became worthy of Heaven.

More Buddhist than Christian. This WAS before she started her Jesus books.

[Aeolus]

Historical fiction is still fiction. If someone wants to take the stance that the Bible is fictional, there's nothing wrong with that. Its only substantial in relation to some of the people who were alive and the places. Events aren't as substantially proven.

But then I think the earlier statement was directed at religious texts in general.

An interesting take on the Devil was actually provided by Anne Rice, who asserted that the Devil was playing the benefactor of humanity (quite like Prometheus) and that hell was a place where people faced their own evils and became worthy of Heaven.

More Buddhist than Christian. This WAS before she started her Jesus books.


'Interesting' is such a relative word. Personally, I think that the most interesting take on the Devil is the one that somehow comes to face down a perfect being out of sheer pride, but what interests people changes from person to person.

Most of the Bible originates from the Dead Sea Scrolls, one of the eldest and most reliable texts to date in archaeology history. The Bible has yeilded more artifacts than any other single document, I'm fairly certain. Some of the locations are disputed, but they are mostly minor towns and places. Just because a lot of the material demands religious thinking to understand it, or it seems far-fetched, does not instantaneously mean it is 'made up' or false.

[LV426]

That's strongly an opinion. The Bible is one of the oldest texts to date and actually, it is quite substantial as far as historical accounts go. 'It's all just made up' is a purely durrogatory statement, and shouldn't be taken for granted, as it quite obviously has been in this case.

Look, there's no proof that the actions in the Bible ever took place. There are some historical references about certain events and places that have been somewhat verified as happening, but at the same time there are other documents written by other cultures and religions that parallel those same events and have their own religion applied. So you can't just say that the Bible is the beginning and end all of the truth because there's no factual evidence to support such. The whole thing is basically just hearsay. Hearsay has yet to hold up in a court of law so I don't see why one "person" has to take the rap for the fact that humans can be dicks.

[Aeolus]

Look, there's no proof that the actions in the Bible ever took place. There are some historical references about certain events and places that have been somewhat verified as happening, but at the same time there are other documents written by other cultures and religions that parallel those same events and have their own religion applied. So you can't just say that the Bible is the beginning and end all of the truth because there's no factual evidence to support such. The whole thing is basically just hearsay. Hearsay has yet to hold up in a court of law so I don't see why one "person" has to take the rap for the fact that humans can be dicks.

Yes, there is a lot of proof, we know that the Babylonian captivity was a very real even for the Jews, and most people do believe that the Isrealites invaded Canaan and Phoenicia around the early Bronze Age. Hesiod's histories often support what is said in the Bible, and if what you just said is true, then so do other texts. Just because other people add in their own religions to their own accounts of history does not make the Bible inaccurate, but I will agree that their are other renditions of the truth that need to be taken into consideration. I don't know how you end up saying the Bible is just hearsay; as I have said before, the Bible is one of the most reliable texts to date, and as we have seen here, it is supported by other texts, and lastly, we have substantial artifacts that have been excavated that follow information, dates, and descriptions in the Bible.

As to 'people being dicks', I have no idea what you are ranting about, but if it involves anal behavior, I definitely think that you offer a good representation of that right here. If you don't like Christianity, that's just fine, but don't slander, and don't distort the truth unless you can provide real evidence beyond just your word and your opinion.

[LV426]

Yes, there is a lot of proof, we know that the Babylonian captivity was a very real even for the Jews, and most people do believe that the Isrealites invaded Canaan and Phoenicia around the early Bronze Age. Hesiod's histories often support what is said in the Bible, and if what you just said is true, then so do other texts. Just because other people add in their own religions to their own accounts of history does not make the Bible inaccurate, but I will agree that their are other renditions of the truth that need to be taken into consideration. I don't know how you end up saying the Bible is just hearsay; as I have said before, the Bible is one of the most reliable texts to date, and as we have seen here, it is supported by other texts, and lastly, we have substantial artifacts that have been excavated that follow information, dates, and descriptions in the Bible.

As to 'people being dicks', I have no idea what you are ranting about, but if it involves anal behavior, I definitely think that you offer a good representation of that right here. If you don't like Christianity, that's just fine, but don't slander, and don't distort the truth unless you can provide real evidence beyond just your word and your opinion.

And yet the whole book of genesis is factually impaired because there have never been Jews in Egypt for Moses to lead to the promise land.

And what I meant by dicks is that people do bad things, they needed something to blame rather than take the rap themselves so they 'created' the devil to be responsible for them being assholes and doing bad shit.

As for being anal, I'm not being anal, I just like, you know, facts and evidence, not someone's make-believe friend responsible for everything. While there is some evidence to support historical occurrences in the Bible you can not use that to prove that every word is completely true. Not to mention that some events in the Bible occurred far before they were recorded as happening in the Bible and someone just decided to give God credit for it.

[Aeolus]

And yet the whole book of genesis is factually impaired because there have never been Jews in Egypt for Moses to lead to the promise land.

Uh, there were semitic peoples in Egypt, what are you talking about?

The real issue is that many scholars believe that the number listed in the Bible was innacurrate, not that there weren't any hebrews there at the time; there probably were.



And what I meant by dicks is that people do bad things, they needed something to blame rather than take the rap themselves so they 'created' the devil to be responsible for them being assholes and doing bad shit.

I don't think anything someone does is the devil's fault, but I do believe in such a thing as evil, and I think that he as a figure fits that description. I have tried to explain this before, but it didn't really get through: I believe it's a person's choice between acting in God's stead or not, and many times the Devil is door #2, but it is always up to the person how they act, and saying that 'The devil did it' is indeed very unrealistic.

As for being anal, I'm not being anal, I just like, you know, facts and evidence, not someone's make-believe friend responsible for everything. While there is some evidence to support historical occurrences in the Bible you can not use that to prove that every word is completely true. Not to mention that some events in the Bible occurred far before they were recorded as happening in the Bible and someone just decided to give God credit for it.

I don't really need to prove anything, the point is people hold avidly to what it says, and though YOU hate that, there is nothing wrong with it. It is a respectable text, contrary to your flat-out rejection of any of it as truth.

[Necro Mortis]

Yes, I believe in A Devil. Why not?

[sai-fujiwara]

Yes, I believe in A Devil. Why not?
Why not indeed?

[ThrasherCub]

The devil, no. Satan, no. Lucifer, he's got some interesting things to say and fine taste in cigars.

[John 677808]

I think evil is real, that's my opinion on this anyway.

[Rascaduanok]

I sided with ‘It might exist but no’. Demons, devils and angels have a very convoluted history but basically they did not start off as evil or good beings, but ‘daimons’: a divider or alloter. From Homer onwards they took on the semblance of entities that intervened in human affairs, and therefore ended up classed as ‘Fate’.

Later, Hesiod (http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hesiod/index.htm) took these entities as guardians or protectors, usually the spirits of wealthy ancestors, so you ended up with Eudaimon (and bad spirits termed as Kakodaimons).

Plato made the biggest advance on all this by claiming that these daimons acted as intercessors or intermediaries betweem humans and God(s). His pupil Xenocrates took it one step further and argued for the existence of both good and evil daimons, and so you end up with Angels and Demons.

Christianity subsumed this, as it did with every religion/mythological/cultural thing it encountered and labelled pagan gods either as angels or demons (fallen angels). The daimon Pan — a god of good times, getting pissed on wine, naked dancing, shagging, etc — ended up the scapegoat of all things wrong with Paganism (according to Christianity) and held up as the embodiment of sin: the Devil itself.

Concepts such as the Devil, incidentally, in binary opposition to God came to Christianity through Judaism, Judaism having absorbed it through Zoroastrianism.

[specopssoldier]

nope, and if he exist i think i would like him better then i would like god hahaha!:D. god sit back with a bagg of popcorn seeing people causing horrible things to eachother in the front row seat and point his finger afterwards "no thats wrong". in my eyes thats the sickest you can do.

more or less how al pacino describes it in "the devils advocate". that god just sits up there and laughs his ass off of us bashing eachothers heads in and doesnt do a thing about it. and the devils work?. he just sets the stages and let us play it. the devil wont say to go left or right. he let us decide thus he doesnt force us. he just exploits our own stupidity.

and yes i know sound like i hate god. but let me get it clear then. i respect anyones beliefs and what they think is right. its a free world witch im proud of to live in it. but i've seen one time too many examples of witch i really thought no god existed or he wouldnt allow it to happen.

[Rascaduanok]

You quote Plato, so I presume you’ve at least read some of his work. Do you not know of the old Philosophical theories of Emanation and the complete remoteness of the ultimate High God? It sounds to me like we’ve ended up deifying the universe itself the same way ancient Egyptians turned the life–giving part of the Nile into a god.

[Kaden]

I do not believe in the devil or hell. I believe in Yomi No Kumi (the polluted lands/land of the dead) after death. But not in hell or the devil.

[sai-fujiwara]

I do not believe in the devil or hell. I believe in Yomi No Kumi (the polluted lands/land of the dead) after death. But not in hell or the devil.
-_-; I should have clarified that I didn't mean specifically the devil...

Thank you for responding!

[Faolan]

The Devil, yes he exists. I believe in a malgin force that seeks nothing more then to ruin and corrupt exsistance. As for if the identity of the Devil is Lucifer the morningstar, God's first angel and such, I don't know. I'm willing to take some belief in this because of my personal experiences. Now I'm not going to say that "The Devil" tried to convinece me, or anything of that sort. Neither am I going to point at the Bible. Believeing in God and thus the Angels, and thus The Devil is just in my faith to do so.

[DarkHunter]

The Devil, yes he exists. I believe in a malgin force that seeks nothing more then to ruin and corrupt exsistance. As for if the identity of the Devil is Lucifer the morningstar, God's first angel and such, I don't know. I'm willing to take some belief in this because of my personal experiences. Now I'm not going to say that "The Devil" tried to convinece me, or anything of that sort. Neither am I going to point at the Bible. Believeing in God and thus the Angels, and thus The Devil is just in my faith to do so.

The Devil is only a malign force when you resist Him. "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

[Faolan]

I'm sorry, no offense to your beliefs but I just can't buy that. He (Lucifer) made himself the enemy of man, the term Satan means The enemy of man. Satan wasn't a name at all, just a title.

[DarkHunter]

I'm sorry, no offense to your beliefs but I just can't buy that. He (Lucifer) made himself the enemy of man, the term Satan means The enemy of man. Satan wasn't a name at all, just a title.

The term "satan" doesn't mean "enemy of man." It means simply "enemy" or "opposer." But this is simply a title in the Abrahamic sense. If you assume that Lucifer signifies the name of a being, well "lucifer" means light bringer and morning star. Which doesn't sound so bad.

Answer me this: Do you consider god the "enemy" of Satan?

But to my post: Satan and what he stands for is a part of the human animal.Thats why resisting what Satan truly stands for is foolish and guaranteed to only bring frustration and unhappiness in a person's life.

[Nichael]

Satan and what he stands for is a part of the human animal.

Is the human animal by chance that part of us, that in utter fascination, watches the news just to see people die? The morbid curiosity?

I never know whether to think of it as evil or not. It's what I think of as the devil, though it's certainly not as bad as the typical Satan.

[DarkHunter]

Is the human animal by chance that part of us, that in utter fascination, watches the news just to see people die? The morbid curiosity?

I never know whether to think of it as evil or not. It's what I think of as the devil, though it's certainly not as bad as the typical Satan.

I would think you have to have a certain fascination with death to do that. But I meet Christians that are more concerned with death than I am. Maybe its God, rather than Satan.

[Faolan]

The term "satan" doesn't mean "enemy of man." It means simply "enemy" or "opposer." But this is simply a title in the Abrahamic sense. If you assume that Lucifer signifies the name of a being, well "lucifer" means light bringer and morning star. Which doesn't sound so bad.

Well glad we on some level agree upon the language.

Answer me this: Do you consider god the "enemy" of Satan?

To be honest, no. God created what we see as reality. He (and I say he as a formality for we can not give him a role of male or female) made the angels to act as his hands. Lucifer made his choices and sided for himself, some say out of love for mortals, others say out of spite and jealousy that God put man (the 2ed born) before the Angels and him. One can not call God the enemy of Lucifer for that is to humanize him and thus to make him less then what he is which is omnipotent.

But to my post: Satan and what he stands for is a part of the human animal.Thats why resisting what Satan truly stands for is foolish and guaranteed to only bring frustration and unhappiness in a person's life.
With that I must say that I'm willing to admit that I could be wrong in my assumptions about the role of "The Devil". However unless he could manifest himself in all of his fiery brimstone glory before me to protest his side of the story like any good lawyer I will believe what I believe and encourage you to do the same. I have no intention to impose my faith upon others and I appreciate this open and non-aggressive dialog. I know my views on these sort of matter in this forum may not be popular but I'm not one for popularity. Until then, may peace be with you.

-Faolan

[DarkHunter]

Well glad we on some level agree upon the language.

To be honest, no. God created what we see as reality. He (and I say he as a formality for we can not give him a role of male or female) made the angels to act as his hands. Lucifer made his choices and sided for himself, some say out of love for mortals, others say out of spite and jealousy that God put man (the 2ed born) before the Angels and him. One can not call God the enemy of Lucifer for that is to humanize him and thus to make him less then what he is which is omnipotent.

With that I must say that I'm willing to admit that I could be wrong in my assumptions about the role of "The Devil". However unless he could manifest himself in all of his fiery brimstone glory before me to protest his side of the story like any good lawyer I will believe what I believe and encourage you to do the same. I have no intention to impose my faith upon others and I appreciate this open and non-aggressive dialog. I know my views on these sort of matter in this forum may not be popular but I'm not one for popularity. Until then, may peace be with you.

-Faolan

I'm not one for popularity either so good on you.

Well the Devil wouldn't manifest himself in fiery brimstone glory, at least not the way I see it. If you accept that Satan is the Dark Force of Nature (maybe Nature itself), then manifestation of itself happens all around you. Just not in the fiery brimstone sort of way.

But, I respect your views anyway. Its good to meet people who don't try to impose their views on others.

[Valse_de_la_Lune]

I don't believe in the Devil, I don't believe in any evil that "makes" someone do something other than a persons own free will. People have free will for a reason, to use it. Nothing forces a person to do something evil except themself.

[Tempest]

I don't believe in the Devil, I don't believe in any evil that "makes" someone do something other than a persons own free will.

I may be wrong, but I don't think that the Devil makes people do anything. I read somewhere that he "whispers evil ideas in our ear", but we have the choice to take those ideas or not. He just tempts us. Not sure where I read that though.

[Valse_de_la_Lune]

haven't you ever heard the phrase "The Devil Made Me Do It!" ? I too, however, have heard that the Devil supposedly 'whispers in our ear,' but if your doing devily things, by choice, wouldn't that make you a devil?

[Tempest]

haven't you ever heard the phrase "The Devil Made Me Do It!" ?

Yes, but the only people who say that are little children or adults who do not want to take responsibility for their actions.

if your doing devily things, by choice, wouldn't that make you a devil?

Depends on what you are doing by choice, what you define to be a devil, and if you know that what you are doing is evil.

[Valse_de_la_Lune]

I'm assuming that whoever is committing the act would know it was evil, and if they didn't, that would mean mental health issues. And yes, irresponsible adults and children would be the ones to use that line, but they do seem to be around a lot.

[Tempest]

I'm assuming that whoever is committing the act would know it was evil, and if they didn't, that would mean mental health issues.

Not really. What is evil varies by culture and religion.

And yes, irresponsible adults and children would be the ones to use that line, but they do seem to be around a lot.

Oh? I haven't heard that line in a loooong time. Several years at least.

[Valse_de_la_Lune]

your logic trumps me, Tempest. However, I'm not entirely sure of what your point is. Care to explain?

[Tempest]

your logic trumps me, Tempest. However, I'm not entirely sure of what your point is. Care to explain?

My point is that you need to rethink your reasoning for not believing in the Devil.

[John 677808]

The Devil could exist or he might not exist, this is the same as God.

Neither of them, do anything for myself.

[The Dragon-King]

I believe in the Devil, but I do not believe he is really evil, just a deciever. There is a difference. Evil is wanting to rule the world or destroy it, a deciever is just someone who enjoys making people do things, and then laughs about it (kind of like a prankster).

[DarkHunter]

I believe in the Devil, but I do not believe he is really evil, just a deciever. There is a difference. Evil is wanting to rule the world or destroy it, a deciever is just someone who enjoys making people do things, and then laughs about it (kind of like a prankster).

Why is evil "wanting to rule the world?" What is inherently evil about that ambition? Doesn't that suggest that aspiring to any political office is a lesser evil, in wanting to rule a small portion of the world?

[ThrasherCub]

I believe in the Devil, but I do not believe he is really evil, just a deciever. There is a difference. Evil is wanting to rule the world or destroy it, a deciever is just someone who enjoys making people do things, and then laughs about it (kind of like a prankster).
What?

Evil has nothing to do with ruling the world and/or it's destruction. I imagine you also believe in silly ideas like that evil can't love. Try again.

And deception doesn't make people do things, it merely means that the truth his hidden or distorted. The people who are deceived may or may not act due to it. Someone who makes people do stuff is a manipulator, not a deceiver.

Do you have any reason to equate prankster with devil? You appear to have just selected the stereotypically misinterpreted and under-fleshed concept of a prankster-spirit and arbitrarily named it "devil."