Thoughts

[UNODRAGONE]

I have a bible thumping crazy religious nut friend (pardon my frustration, I mean no offense) who I am in a heated discussion with. She claims once we loose our faith in God, thats it, we're done. To which I asked what about borne again people, and she stated to me that those people are phonys, they do bad things, repent and then do them again. In my eyes (at least what I can remember from bible school) God always forgives. I think it is human nature to from time and again loose our faith and then find it again. Hell I'm in that lost it phase right now. What do you think?

[MorganaFang]

I'd say your friend probably has not read the bible since there is this story called "The Prodigal son".

Though I'm aware there are a lot of people that think like that. Johovah's witness come to mind.

Though I don't know, ever since I was read Job's prayer I've started to wonder about the logic of "people being evil" how does that factor that god and the devil might be just playing a game?

[J.L.R.]

I have to agree with Morgana on this one. Through out the Bible there is NUMEROUS stories of people doing wrong and then being forgiven by God. The Old Testament illustrates God's Grace and Judgment upon His people.

The very fact that the "Bible Thumper" that you are speaking of, calls Born Agains phoneys beckons that this person themselves has not read the Bible. It isn't surprising though, if most Christians actually READ the Bible, including Catholics, you wouldn't have nearly all the divisions you have today, however many are content just going by whatever their pastor says, instead of reading the Bible for themselves.

As for Born Agains doing "bad" things and then repenting... Biblically speaking, we are born sinners, you escape the ultimate destination (being Hell - separation from God) by Salvation through the Blood of Christ. The Bible rather the Dewry Translation (Catholic Bible) or any of the number of Protestant Bibles, NEVER states that Salvation is through works, Priests, or whatever... again most don't read the Bible, so most don't know that...

However, the ONLY way you are going to win this debate is if you can show her, Biblically, where she is wrong. This means you yourself would have to study the Bible.

If not, then I would simply abandon this arguement because it is going to do nothing but make you angry and waist your time. Let him/her to their own folly and go about your merry way.

[UNODRAGONE]

I have to agree with Morgana on this one. Through out the Bible there is NUMEROUS stories of people doing wrong and then being forgiven by God. The Old Testament illustrates God's Grace and Judgment upon His people.

The very fact that the "Bible Thumper" that you are speaking of, calls Born Agains phoneys beckons that this person themselves has not read the Bible. It isn't surprising though, if most Christians actually READ the Bible, including Catholics, you wouldn't have nearly all the divisions you have today, however many are content just going by whatever their pastor says, instead of reading the Bible for themselves.

As for Born Agains doing "bad" things and then repenting... Biblically speaking, we are born sinners, you escape the ultimate destination (being Hell - separation from God) by Salvation through the Blood of Christ. The Bible rather the Dewry Translation (Catholic Bible) or any of the number of Protestant Bibles, NEVER states that Salvation is through works, Priests, or whatever... again most don't read the Bible, so most don't know that...

However, the ONLY way you are going to win this debate is if you can show her, Biblically, where she is wrong. This means you yourself would have to study the Bible.

If not, then I would simply abandon this arguement because it is going to do nothing but make you angry and waist your time. Let him/her to their own folly and go about your merry way.


See I'm with you, I hate arguing, I believe you have the right to your opinion and no one has the right to change it. The only thing I can't stand and I find a lot in religion is someone telling me I am wrong and I have to believe something a certain way or I'm damned, I hate having something pushed on me. I have given her examples from the bible and she simply states, "It's all in the way you perceive whats being said" so I told her we will never see or 'perceive' this the same way lets agree to disagree and be done but she is so hard headed! I'm done trying to win the debate but I am always interested in other points of view to better adjust (not change) my own so I figured I'd see what other open minded people have to say. I don't mind an opinion, as long as no one pushes it on me and is open minded about it.

[J.L.R.]

See I'm with you, I hate arguing, I believe you have the right to your opinion and no one has the right to change it. The only thing I can't stand and I find a lot in religion is someone telling me I am wrong and I have to believe something a certain way or I'm damned, I hate having something pushed on me. I have given her examples from the bible and she simply states, "It's all in the way you perceive whats being said" so I told her we will never see or 'perceive' this the same way lets agree to disagree and be done but she is so hard headed! I'm done trying to win the debate but I am always interested in other points of view to better adjust (not change) my own so I figured I'd see what other open minded people have to say. I don't mind an opinion, as long as no one pushes it on me and is open minded about it.

I understand. In reality, NOBODY likes to be told they are wrong, even if they are. It is a mutual feeling. Many Christians, unlearned ones young and old, tend to focus too much on how somebody else is wrong, rather than making sure that THEY themselves are living right. Believe me I had a hypocrit teacher in high school who was always on my case because I played Mortal Kombat, drew pictures of dragons and werewolves, and watched Buffy: The Vampire Slayer, and yet she talked terrible to people, and was mean. A good teacher friend of mine suffered a heart attack because of the stress this elder teacher was putting on her, due to her constant nagging.

As a Christian I believe in witnessing, but I also believe that one's life should reflect what one is professing.

[UNODRAGONE]

I understand. In reality, NOBODY likes to be told they are wrong, even if they are. It is a mutual feeling. Many Christians, unlearned ones young and old, tend to focus too much on how somebody else is wrong, rather than making sure that THEY themselves are living right. Believe me I had a hypocrit teacher in high school who was always on my case because I played Mortal Kombat, drew pictures of dragons and werewolves, and watched Buffy: The Vampire Slayer, and yet she talked terrible to people, and was mean. A good teacher friend of mine suffered a heart attack because of the stress this elder teacher was putting on her, due to her constant nagging.

As a Christian I believe in witnessing, but I also believe that one's life should reflect what one is professing.


Your the only Christain I met with that mind set :) got a lot of respect for you

[Pickle Tickler]

See, that's my biggest problem with my religion. With most people, it's about you're right or wrong. This is always wrong, and this is always right.

I can't really say anything about people who haven't read the Bible because I myself haven't read the whole book yet. But I think that we (meaning Christians in general) could do a lot better by doing so, instead of compensating by merely listening to a sermon.

[Golden Howl]

Well, I don't know what a born again person is because I am still learning. But I am a Christian & what your friend said is not true. I have lost my faith in God once every now & then, & I'm not done for or whatever. Here's a long series of Bible verses I memorized by heart & to me sounds like losing faith in God's love, or something like the such.

Psalms 88:1-88:14

Oh Lord, the God who saves me
day & night I cry out before you.
May my prayer come before you.
Turn your ear to my cry.
For my soul is full of trouble,
and my life draws near the grave.
I am counted among those who go down to the pit;
I am like a man without strength.
I am set apart with the dead;
like the slain who lie in the grave.
Whom you remember no more
who are cut off from your care.
You have put me in the lowest pit;
in the darkest depths.
Your wraith lies heavily upon me;
you have overwhelmed me with all your waves.
You have taken from me my closest friends
and have made me repulsive to them.
I am confined & cannot escape
My eyes are dim with grief.
I call to you O Lord everyday;
I spread out my hands to you.
Do you show your wonders to the dead?
Are those who are dead rise up & praise you?
Is you love declared in the grave;
your faithfulness in destruction?
Are your wonders known in the land of darkness,
or your rightous deeds in the land of obilvion?
I call to you for help O Lord;
every morning my prayer comes before you.
Why O Lord do you reject me,
& hide your face from me?

So, there ya go.

[Pickle Tickler]

Born again simply means that you are a Christian that lost their way and repented, usually changing your old ways.

[Golden Howl]

Born again simply means that you are a Christian that lost their way and repented, usually changing your old ways.

Thank-you, now I am a bit smarter! :D

[UNODRAGONE]

Well, I don't know what a born again person is because I am still learning. But I am a Christian & what your friend said is not true. I have lost my faith in God once every now & then, & I'm not done for or whatever. Here's a long series of Bible verses I memorized by heart & to me sounds like losing faith in God's love, or something like the such.

Psalms 88:1-88:14

Oh Lord, the God who saves me
day & night I cry out before you.
May my prayer come before you.
Turn your ear to my cry.
For my soul is full of trouble,
and my life draws near the grave.
I am counted among those who go down to the pit;
I am like a man without strength.
I am set apart with the dead;
like the slain who lie in the grave.
Whom you remember no more
who are cut off from your care.
You have put me in the lowest pit;
in the darkest depths.
Your wraith lies heavily upon me;
you have overwhelmed me with all your waves.
You have taken from me my closest friends
and have made me repulsive to them.
I am confined & cannot escape
My eyes are dim with grief.
I call to you O Lord everyday;
I spread out my hands to you.
Do you show your wonders to the dead?
Are those who are dead rise up & praise you?
Is you love declared in the grave;
your faithfulness in destruction?
Are your wonders known in the land of darkness,
or your rightous deeds in the land of obilvion?
I call to you for help O Lord;
every morning my prayer comes before you.
Why O Lord do you reject me,
& hide your face from me?

So, there ya go.

wow I like that

[Golden Howl]

wow I like that

Yeah, I love it, because it was sort of like a sad Christian poem or something. That's why I memorizied it. And I finally got to share it with someone!! :D

[UNODRAGONE]

Yeah, I love it, because it was sort of like a sad Christian poem or something. That's why I memorizied it. And I finally got to share it with someone!! :D

damn good memory

[Pickle Tickler]

More like obsessive. :eek:

[Golden Howl]

damn good memory
Thank-you, :D but sometimes I'll be watching television & when a commercial comes on, I'm like, "What was I watching again??" And other times I can't recall what I ate for breakfast, but I guess that's not really important to waste your memory on. ;)


More like obsessive. :eek:

Ha ha, very funny. :rolleyes:

[Pickle Tickler]

I'm serious. :eek:

[Golden Howl]

I'm serious. :eek:

I don't think it's obsessive, it's sort of like memorizing the lyrics to a song. But hey it's your opinion, so go ahead think that it's obsessive. Besides, I like when people think I'm strange, weird, freakish, etc. :D

[Pickle Tickler]

I disagree with that sentiment. A song, if you listen enough times, will get stuck in your head. Hence why I hate rap, and my rap loving friends. Car rides from hell.

[UNODRAGONE]

I disagree with that sentiment. A song, if you listen enough times, will get stuck in your head. Hence why I hate rap, and my rap loving friends. Car rides from hell.

Completly disagree. I read a lot of poetry and the one poem I know by heart because I read it a lot and it stuck to me was If there be pain by Tupac. Not obsessive ;) it just means it made an impression on you

[J.L.R.]

Don't get me wrong, Preachers are there to lead you, teach you, and instruct you in the Faith, as well as make sure that the church is moving in the right direction, so it is important for you to listen to sermons, however, it is also important for anyone who is a Christian to read and study the Bible, as to know when somebody is pulling the wool over their eyes.

[Aeolus]

I'd say your friend probably has not read the bible since there is this story called "The Prodigal son".

Though I'm aware there are a lot of people that think like that. Johovah's witness come to mind.

Though I don't know, ever since I was read Job's prayer I've started to wonder about the logic of "people being evil" how does that factor that god and the devil might be just playing a game?

You're head on, fang. I once had a discussion with a JW preacher of some sort on my way home from school. They believe that we must live sinless lives through Jesus if we are to be truly saved, and our actions may go unforgiven if we fail.

[UNODRAGONE]

You're head on, fang. I once had a discussion with a JW preacher of some sort on my way home from school. They believe that we must live sinless lives through Jesus if we are to be truly saved, and our actions may go unforgiven if we fail.


I wonder if my friend is really a JW and doesn't know it?

[SabineLycaon]

religious issues? for once i think we should take a different approach.

humans can be incredibly complex and so can their frustrating debates about what is right etc.

sometimes, it just pays off to think outside the square and see a different perspective.

what would jesus do? personally, for people posting on this werewolf forum, for the other therians out there, i think it should be "what would wolf do?"

consider what a wolf might think and i highly recommend jack london to help you understand its perspective. i,e figures of power, hierarchy, religion and gods, he does cover many aspects through the eyes of an intelligent totem.

[UNODRAGONE]

religious issues? for once i think we should take a different approach.

humans can be incredibly complex and so can their frustrating debates about what is right etc.

sometimes, it just pays off to think outside the square and see a different perspective.

what would jesus do? personally, for people posting on this werewolf forum, for the other therians out there, i think it should be "what would wolf do?"

consider what a wolf might think and i highly recommend jack london to help you understand its perspective. i,e figures of power, hierarchy, religion and gods, he does cover many aspects through the eyes of an intelligent totem.


What the hell does this have to do with my question? :confused:

[SabineLycaon]

lol, just going back to the start of this post, i was just thinking about the religious issue / idea presented at the beginnging and how it could be approached differently, ie by therians

(trying to save posting new threads too)

[UNODRAGONE]

lol, just going back to the start of this post, i was just thinking about the religious issue / idea presented at the beginnging and how it could be approached differently, ie by therians

(trying to save posting new threads too)

Got cha carry on :cool:

[SabineLycaon]

have you read jack london before? not to seem on a tangent to the topic, but what he wrote did cover some interesting viewpoints.

[Pickle Tickler]

"what would wolf do?"

Thank you for asking. *coughs* I would chomp on their freakin' leg for coming to my den. Stupid Jehovah's witnesses.

[SabineLycaon]

exactly, in that situation, should someone encroach upon your beliefs or your mental territory with intent to persuade you, i think wolf might react the same way, or the animalistic side of a person would anyway.

[Pickle Tickler]

Now I want to see that happen on youtube...:(

[Layira Aura]

Thank you for asking. *coughs* I would chomp on their freakin' leg for coming to my den. Stupid Jehovah's witnesses.

I'm not trying to be whiny and whatnot, but my family are Jehovah's Witnesses...and it's nothing like what most people think. It's part of the Christian religion, we have pretty much the same beliefs, we just do things a little different. I know everyone in my congregation very well, and have been to almost everyone's house for dinner at least once. I've made friends in my congregation. It's more of a family than a bunch of people with the same faith.

For instance, if someone was getting divorced, and was having some financial difficulty, everyone in our congregation would donate money so s/he could pay expenses. Instead of our money going to uneeded places, it's used to help each other.

I'm getting a little tired of people always making it seem like Jehovah's Witnesses are bad people. Honestly, we're fine people, we just have a different way to show and spread our faith. The reason that Jehovah's Witnesses go door-to-door is because they try to be more familiar with people, instead of being distant and awkward.

I myself am not extremely religious, but I still know the Bible and such. And I don't mind people talking about the religion, but I would appreciate if people didn't talk about Jehovah's Witnesses as if they were bad people.

[SabineLycaon]

understood
no labels or prejudices here
it could be anyone encroaching on the mental space i described

[Pickle Tickler]

It's my personal opinion, though I apologize for any slight on my part.

[SabineLycaon]

its bizarre sometimes how despite strong personal beliefs can be overcome by a willingness to cooperate.
(not taking shots here)
like that ceasefire during christmas in WW1 (or 2) when the germans and british met face to face for a few minutes out of the trenches before returning to killing each other

[MorganaFang]

For one thing I do know that Johova's Witnesses are good people. I've worked on fund raisers with a few. At the same I'm also aware they are stricter in their belief of who or what gets into heaven, so I just threw up there because of that. I had not intended for it to turn into a belittling carnival.

There are plenty of other Christian faiths like that, certain parts of Mormonism and whatever the heck the Amish practice. I'm not completely sure :p

[UNODRAGONE]

I'm not trying to be whiny and whatnot, but my family are Jehovah's Witnesses...and it's nothing like what most people think. It's part of the Christian religion, we have pretty much the same beliefs, we just do things a little different. I know everyone in my congregation very well, and have been to almost everyone's house for dinner at least once. I've made friends in my congregation. It's more of a family than a bunch of people with the same faith.

For instance, if someone was getting divorced, and was having some financial difficulty, everyone in our congregation would donate money so s/he could pay expenses. Instead of our money going to uneeded places, it's used to help each other.
I'm getting a little tired of people always making it seem like Jehovah's Witnesses are bad people. Honestly, we're fine people, we just have a different way to show and spread our faith. The reason that Jehovah's Witnesses go door-to-door is because they try to be more familiar with people, instead of being distant and awkward.

I myself am not extremely religious, but I still know the Bible and such. And I don't mind people talking about the religion, but I would appreciate if people didn't talk about Jehovah's Witnesses as if they were bad people.

I wish most churches did that instead of putting it into the priest's pocket :)