Do you believe that....

[Ookami Mitsuki]

Do you believe that there's a way humans can be "biogeneticaly altered" to contain animal-like characteristics or even apperances? Maybe... wings or expanded life? Or even scales and such forth so on?
And if so, does it have to be in the womb or when already adult?
What do you think??:confused:

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

I suppose it's possible, but not in some time. And I believe it would have to be done while in the womb. It's when we are "built", I don't think one can ever grow ekstra stuff after one is born. Also, there would be several moral issues about wether we should do it, even if we can. If the child is still in the womb, do the parents have the right to genetically enchant it? Will people who can afford alterations on themselves/their children end up as better "super-humans", superior to those who can't afford it? Will this increase the differences between the rich and the poor? Will there be a new upper class of genetically engineered humans?

But I have actually thought about the same thing in the past. If not scales, then perhaps eyes to see in the dark with... It has possibilities.

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

Also, I believe this thread would be at home in "Science Central";)

[Lysander]

well the rich can affod jets to fly, scuba gear to breathe underwater, nightvision to see in th dark.. pretty soon exoskeletal bodysuits to run faster farther and lift more than average people can now.

[xxMatolfxx]

It depends on how goth means it. I guess the way goth is talking about it it should be in the science area.

I believe that it is possible, though I don't know I will ever see it in my life time.

[DarkWolf]

Do you believe that there's a way humans can be "biogeneticaly altered"Biogenetically is a redundant phrase since all genetics, being biological components, are instantly "bio-". There's no such thing as a "non-bio-" form of genetics.

Anyway, people are being genetically altered all the time. Every person has a genetic alteration from each other, from their parents, and from general growing up. Our genes change continuously as we grow and develop as organisms. This occurs from nutrition, pollutants, environmental effects, and all sorts of things. If you have a child at 20 and another at 30, your genetic contributions to the child would be different because your genetic state would have changed.

Small things are changed, usually the "presets" such as height, weight, etc. These are genetic predispositions and are alterable at any stage in life for passing down (these alterations don't affect you, just the sex cells to pass on).

to contain animal-like characteristics or even apperances?Has already been achieved without altering genetics. There's people with feline faces, fangs and even functioning whiskers. It's comestic and pricey, but can be done with intensely less risk than altering genes.

Maybe... wingsThat'd be stupid. Having wings wouldn't be like in the movies. You wouldn't be able to flap them properly, let alone fly, they'd just be there. They'd probably be featherless, and basically just skin. Normal skin, shaped into a thin membrane and forming a wing.

We're not birds and genetic alteration wouldn't give us bird-like wings, or bat-like wings, or any form of wings that would be useful or cool. We don't have the physical design or structure for them, so the end result is a human with weird skin-bags of wings or functioning wings on something barely resembling human on any comestic or genetic level.

or expanded life?Already done. We've gone from average lifespan of 30-40, dead by 50 at most, to average lifespan 80-90 and 120+ at most and growing. Our lifestyles and choices are altering us genetically bit by bit and are adapting and evolving like everything else. For us, our physical capabilities are lessening and lifespans lengthening. Yet, as we lengthen our lifespans we're becoming more and more fragile. Nature's balance. No alterations directly necessary, it's already happening and at the optimum level (force things and our bodies tend to break down).

Or even scalesNot a far stretch. Pointless, really, but not a far stretch. Our skin is more efficient than scales, making them scales seems silly and stupid unless you plan on being underwater most of your life (as in, submerged in). But genetically not a gigantic stretch, our skins have a "scale" to them anyway. Our outermost layer is formed by scale-like flakes of dead skin held by the same stuff your nails are made of (kerotene, I think the name is?). There's even a skin condition that can make your skin look and feel like dry scales.

And if so, does it have to be in the womb or when already adult?There's little point in an adult, or even a child. The blueprints are already formed and you can't just rewrite cells, you'd have to wait for the cells to die and for the body to produce the new ones according to the new blueprint.

There's a problem here.

Something like this already is happening, in a way. We call it "cancer". Cancer begins when a cell dies, as they often do, and the replacement is "off-mark" from the original blueprint. This defective cell can even alter surrounding cells, breaking away or building more, into tumors. Cells can break from the tumor and spread - altering other cells and producing more cells mutated from the blueprint.

To alter genes in an adult you basically mix cancer with a retrovirus. Since this is unimaginably more likely to kill the subject, not likely to happen anytime soon.

A good time for altering genes is not in an infant, child, adult, or womb. It's in a petri dish just before or after the sperm cell fertilises the egg cell. Even then, the chances are slim.

The best time would be before conception. Before any thing like that. Probably before even the birth of the parents. Alter things slightly in a petri-dish scenario, have the parents with the genes you wanted them to have grow up and take the sperm and egg cells from them, alter and fertilise and then you'd see noticeable changes.

It's not like the movies, folks. For gene manipulations of this scale to be in affect it takes many generations not one-shots in a dish.

Think of the Liger. The genes of a tiger and lion are barely compatible but some people forced compatibility with gene manipulation. The result: Liger. A new cat species filled with health problems, genetic problems, and sterility coded into their DNA.

To get those animal-like characteristics in people you want, you're facing hundreds being born crippled, unhealthy, mentally retarded, genetically unstable, and most likely death for something so immeasurable small and pointless.

I do believe this is why there's a ban on large-scale genetic experimentation on people. So, ya know, hundreds of lives don't get ruined while you try and discover a way to have somebody be born with a new shade of hair or something.

What do I think? I think it's possible, but pointless, stupid, disastrous, and nature's beat you to it on a daily basis.

[xxMatolfxx]

Biogenetically is a redundant phrase since all genetics, being biological components, are instantly "bio-". There's no such thing as a "non-bio-" form of genetics.

Anyway, people are being genetically altered all the time. Every person has a genetic alteration from each other, from their parents, and from general growing up. Our genes change continuously as we grow and develop as organisms. This occurs from nutrition, pollutants, environmental effects, and all sorts of things. If you have a child at 20 and another at 30, your genetic contributions to the child would be different because your genetic state would have changed.

Small things are changed, usually the "presets" such as height, weight, etc. These are genetic predispositions and are alterable at any stage in life for passing down (these alterations don't affect you, just the sex cells to pass on).

Has already been achieved without altering genetics. There's people with feline faces, fangs and even functioning whiskers. It's comestic and pricey, but can be done with intensely less risk than altering genes.

That'd be stupid. Having wings wouldn't be like in the movies. You wouldn't be able to flap them properly, let alone fly, they'd just be there. They'd probably be featherless, and basically just skin. Normal skin, shaped into a thin membrane and forming a wing.

We're not birds and genetic alteration wouldn't give us bird-like wings, or bat-like wings, or any form of wings that would be useful or cool. We don't have the physical design or structure for them, so the end result is a human with weird skin-bags of wings or functioning wings on something barely resembling human on any comestic or genetic level.

Already done. We've gone from average lifespan of 30-40, dead by 50 at most, to average lifespan 80-90 and 120+ at most and growing. Our lifestyles and choices are altering us genetically bit by bit and are adapting and evolving like everything else. For us, our physical capabilities are lessening and lifespans lengthening. Yet, as we lengthen our lifespans we're becoming more and more fragile. Nature's balance. No alterations directly necessary, it's already happening and at the optimum level (force things and our bodies tend to break down).

Not a far stretch. Pointless, really, but not a far stretch. Our skin is more efficient than scales, making them scales seems silly and stupid unless you plan on being underwater most of your life (as in, submerged in). But genetically not a gigantic stretch, our skins have a "scale" to them anyway. Our outermost layer is formed by scale-like flakes of dead skin held by the same stuff your nails are made of (kerotene, I think the name is?). There's even a skin condition that can make your skin look and feel like dry scales.

There's little point in an adult, or even a child. The blueprints are already formed and you can't just rewrite cells, you'd have to wait for the cells to die and for the body to produce the new ones according to the new blueprint.

There's a problem here.

Something like this already is happening, in a way. We call it "cancer". Cancer begins when a cell dies, as they often do, and the replacement is "off-mark" from the original blueprint. This defective cell can even alter surrounding cells, breaking away or building more, into tumors. Cells can break from the tumor and spread - altering other cells and producing more cells mutated from the blueprint.

To alter genes in an adult you basically mix cancer with a retrovirus. Since this is unimaginably more likely to kill the subject, not likely to happen anytime soon.

A good time for altering genes is not in an infant, child, adult, or womb. It's in a petri dish just before or after the sperm cell fertilises the egg cell. Even then, the chances are slim.

The best time would be before conception. Before any thing like that. Probably before even the birth of the parents. Alter things slightly in a petri-dish scenario, have the parents with the genes you wanted them to have grow up and take the sperm and egg cells from them, alter and fertilise and then you'd see noticeable changes.

It's not like the movies, folks. For gene manipulations of this scale to be in affect it takes many generations not one-shots in a dish.

Think of the Liger. The genes of a tiger and lion are barely compatible but some people forced compatibility with gene manipulation. The result: Liger. A new cat species filled with health problems, genetic problems, and sterility coded into their DNA.

To get those animal-like characteristics in people you want, you're facing hundreds being born crippled, unhealthy, mentally retarded, genetically unstable, and most likely death for something so immeasurable small and pointless.

I do believe this is why there's a ban on large-scale genetic experimentation on people. So, ya know, hundreds of lives don't get ruined while you try and discover a way to have somebody be born with a new shade of hair or something.

What do I think? I think it's possible, but pointless, stupid, disastrous, and nature's beat you to it on a daily basis.


This is starting to remind me a little of X-Men. Not the super powers or anything along the lines of that. The prejudice in the movie though. If we found a way to do this, then all the people born naturally this way would eventually get seperated from society. Lets face it, most people don't like change and will go through anything to stop it.

[BoxedCat]

While beaten to a coherent response by Darkwolf (thank you, by the way), I'd like to add my cent and a half. Yes, this should be in Science Central.

In order for modifications to be made to the human genome, the knowledge has to be in existence as to how it works and how the rest of the human body reacts to it.

I attended a seminar today regarding a protein. Just one. They they know mostly how it works, but need more information. The technique they use to monitor changes (Vibrational Stark Effect, for the naysayers) uses one functional group, a CN stretch, in one little part of it. Three years worth of research, and they think they have something of an idea. That's about it. So, most of what is understood from this protein comes from generalized crystal structures with a little tiny piece of it (<.01%) adding slightly more knowledge.

I think that the day we have "scales and such forth so on" will be far past our lifetimes, as well as that of Miss South Carolina.

[Hamster_Mommy]

Do you believe that there's a way humans can be "biogeneticaly altered" to contain animal-like characteristics or even apperances? Maybe... wings or expanded life? Or even scales and such forth so on?
And if so, does it have to be in the womb or when already adult?
What do you think??:confused:

I think it is possible, but not probable.

I think the alteration would be best if done in the womb where a lot of developmental activity is already going down and could be added onto maybe.

I saw a Headline News broadcast in the 90's about genetically crossed somewhat similiar animals that where raised. A goat/sheep, and a camel/horse are two that I remember. I wish I could have taped the broadcast. The subject of crossing humans with animals for organ donations, soldiers etc. was debated briefly as well.

I think it would be cool to be a lab created beast person, but for one I watch too many movies like The Island of Dr. Moreau :) and for two I think it is wise to be careful what you wish for lest you get it. Sometimes stuff seems like it would be neat on the surface, but maybe not so ultimitely.

[archenemyfan]

Do you believe that there's a way humans can be "biogeneticaly altered" to contain animal-like characteristics or even apperances? Maybe... wings or expanded life? Or even scales and such forth so on?
And if so, does it have to be in the womb or when already adult?
What do you think??:confused:

i think so because i know that technology will advance one of these years to where hybrid humans and animals will probably take place. my answer is yes, but in probably 12 or so years.

[Tempest]

i think so because i know that technology will advance one of these years to where hybrid humans and animals will probably take place. my answer is yes, but in probably 12 or so years.

Even if these things were possible (did you read the thread or just click "reply?"), I highly doubt that they would happen in 12 years. These things are very far in the future, and 12 years is nothing. A discovery like how to create a human being with working wings would be way beyond what we are currently capable of doing. Technology doesn't improve THAT much that fast.

[archenemyfan]

Technology doesn't improve THAT much that fast.

sometimes it takes years of research for one topic..
many could study the topic and still not find an explanation. look how long it took for a computer the size of a big room to now a portable laptop. that was a number of years ago.

[MorganaFang]

sometimes it takes years of research for one topic..
many could study the topic and still not find an explanation. look how long it took for a computer the size of a big room to now a portable laptop. that was a number of years ago.

That was over 30 years, and technology is significantly different than organic substance.

In fact! the development of technology to mimic organic has taken several decades and will probably continue to for the next few centuries.

The study of genes and cells is a relatively new science too, stunted greatly by "morals" .

Not to mention the prospect of developing a wolf/human hybrid seems of less priority than using the massive manpower of as many scientist as possible to cure AIDs or Breast cancer.

[Tempest]

sometimes it takes years of research for one topic..
many could study the topic and still not find an explanation. look how long it took for a computer the size of a big room to now a portable laptop. that was a number of years ago.

I can't tell if you're trying to defend yourself or if you're agreeing with me...

[archenemyfan]

I can't tell if you're trying to defend yourself or if you're agreeing with me...

im agreeing with you and morgana fang. i also think that scientists can figure out a cure for breast cancer and AIDS. but still-research is all it takes...
but what if someone contains a cure for the diesease? [a carrier]. like in 28 WEEKS LATER. A mother was bitten and she was not "actively" infected. she was instead a carrier of the virus. do you think something like that can happen in real life?
[i know its just a movie but not all fake things are fake themselves...]

[UNODRAGONE]

im agreeing with you and morgana fang. i also think that scientists can figure out a cure for breast cancer and AIDS. but still-research is all it takes...
but what if someone contains a cure for the diesease? [a carrier]. like in 28 WEEKS LATER. A mother was bitten and she was not "actively" infected. she was instead a carrier of the virus. do you think something like that can happen in real life?
[i know its just a movie but not all fake things are fake themselves...]



I always wonder that myself, like with babies that are born to AIDS mothers but don't get the disease, I understand that their bodies are developing but I can't help but wonder....

[DarkWolf]

It happens all the time. With a very large number of viruses.

[RoseLillianJade]

Hi i was wondering if you know how to make a post on hear? I want to start one but i don't know where to go to do that.

[DarkWolf]

Hi i was wondering if you know how to make a post on hear? I want to start one but i don't know where to go to do that.
You just made one. :confused:

If you want to make a new topic, just use the http://www.werewolf.com/vb/images/buttons/newthread.gif button found at the top of the forum page.

[Sabor_X]

It is possible. And it has been tried. It happens even before the pregnency. The genetics of the child are blended with some potentialy harmless genes from animals. For example one child was tested with the genes of a wolf. When he was born His eyes were wolflike and his hair was dark. He had long, dark nails and sharp teeth. But he also had hostility problems. He would lash out at his parents and it took them a very long time to teach him simple things such as using the bathroom, eating normal, walking normal, and especialy talking. He also died at a fairly young age. It is possible. But I don't think it's worth it.

[Gilenea]

Link me, Sabor. I'd like to see the article on that.

Gil

[Sabor_X]

Link me, Sabor. I'd like to see the article on that.

Gil

I am sorry I have the newspaper cut-out not a link

[MorganaFang]

It is possible. And it has been tried. It happens even before the pregnency. The genetics of the child are blended with some potentialy harmless genes from animals. For example one child was tested with the genes of a wolf. When he was born His eyes were wolflike and his hair was dark. He had long, dark nails and sharp teeth. But he also had hostility problems. He would lash out at his parents and it took them a very long time to teach him simple things such as using the bathroom, eating normal, walking normal, and especialy talking. He also died at a fairly young age. It is possible. But I don't think it's worth it.


Got a factual citation of this story?

[RoseLillianJade]

Ya i'd love to read the story myself too.

[MorganaFang]

I am sorry I have the newspaper cut-out not a link

If you have the newspaper cutout than you can give the name of the newspaper, date and/or maybe scan it in and post it.

Most newspapers keep archives online now.

[DarkWolf]

It was posted in a newspaper, verified and cited, even though it's completely illegal to experient with such genetics on a human?

Please tell us, as Morg requested, more information such as newspaper name, etc.

*waits for the excuses*

[Golden Howl]

Well, I am suprised that no one has mentioned this yet....but like a year or so ago I was having a conversation with my father, and he was informing about an experiment scienists did awhile back. The only thing I clearly remember was they took sperm from a male human, and injected it into a female chimpanzee, or gorilla....She had a child that was a cross between us & the monkeys! I don't think it was a pretty sight... :eek: This isn't too far of a stretch as you have in mind though, but it seems to fit in this thread anyway.

[Gilenea]

Again. Where is the proof?

I can sit here and tell you that "Bat Boy" is real, and if I don't have anything but a World News (magazine of the "weird") article to back it up, no one's going to believe me.

New York Times might mention sometimes about experiments like that. But on the off chance that they don't, and it's a secret government conspiracy experiment that did happen, how does your DAD know about it?

Gil

[MorganaFang]

I'm going back to the beginning because I actually decided to do some reading. Most the stuff I read comes from the UofM, and varies universities in the U.S. and U.K. They can easily be found googling "Human Hybrids"

Do you believe that there's a way humans can be "biogeneticaly altered" to contain animal-like characteristics

They can be, if by characteristics you mean blood, antibodies, insulin, change of chemical compounds in secretions.


or even apperances?

To an extent it has happened already with mice having ears and noses on their backs, bunnies embryos with human stemcells and the attempts of developing human organs in pigs. However George Bush pulled the plug on these kinds of studies here in the states. They were starting to push the line of when an animal has these human "qualities" then shouldn't they receive the same rights as people?

Let me emphasis though, that of these studies pinpoint usually a minimal amount of characteristics. Getting something like an anthro is futile at this point. Scientists are working with cells where they see compatibility. I mean really at this point in DNA study Gattica isn't completely possible yet. We can't really pick out entirely the desirable traits we want in our babies. Though they can create a baby that is without a certain diseased gene.

And if so, does it have to be in the womb or when already adult?
What do you think??

Right now all of this, as far as I've read, happens pre-womb. Genes are manipulated then combined together to get the embryo, which hangs around for awhile in the test tube until they're sure it will survive the womb. Most likely there is still something going on with feeding the mother, and shots/medications during the pregnancy.

[MorganaFang]

Well, I am suprised that no one has mentioned this yet....but like a year or so ago I was having a conversation with my father, and he was informing about an experiment scienists did awhile back. The only thing I clearly remember was they took sperm from a male human, and injected it into a female chimpanzee, or gorilla....She had a child that was a cross between us & the monkeys! I don't think it was a pretty sight... :eek: This isn't too far of a stretch as you have in mind though, but it seems to fit in this thread anyway.

Actually these kind of studies have been going for years. Recently on TV there was a thing on Stalin's supposedly gov't funded man gorilla warriors. Unlike Hitler's WerWolf soldiers who were fully human, these were going to be actual hybrid apes and humans.

However, no one knows if Stalin really was in favor of these studies it is true they went on. Results of human male sperm inside female apes would not work.

And that is beeeecccccaaaaauuuuu ssseeeee..... They did these studies with Chimpanzees, Gorillas , and Orangutans. None of these apes are that genetically close enough that a hybrid baby would occur simply with sperm and egg.

However, there is one ape out there that is speculated to be a good match and that is (my favorite): THE BONOBO who were only recently discovered in comparison to others. By the time of their discovery most of these kind of studies had been at least publicly stunted. So as far as public knowledge is, there have been no attempts at human/bonobo babies.

Oooohhh Bonoboooo

[Golden Howl]

Again. Where is the proof? To be honest, I don't possess any. Don't get all worked up about it, either believe it or don't. Or if you're interested enough, research it yourself, I just thought I'd put a post about it.


New York Times might mention sometimes about experiments like that. But on the off chance that they don't, and it's a secret government conspiracy experiment that did happen, how does your DAD know about it?

Gil Let's say my dad watches A LOT of television.

Actually these kind of studies have been going for years. Recently on TV there was a thing on Stalin's supposedly gov't funded man gorilla warriors. Unlike Hitler's WerWolf soldiers who were fully human, these were going to be actual hybrid apes and humans.

However, no one knows if Stalin really was in favor of these studies it is true they went on. Results of human male sperm inside female apes would not work.

And that is beeeecccccaaaaauuuuu ssseeeee..... They did these studies with Chimpanzees, Gorillas , and Orangutans. None of these apes are that genetically close enough that a hybrid baby would occur simply with sperm and egg.

However, there is one ape out there that is speculated to be a good match and that is (my favorite): THE BONOBO who were only recently discovered in comparison to others. By the time of their discovery most of these kind of studies had been at least publicly stunted. So as far as public knowledge is, there have been no attempts at human/bonobo babies.

Oooohhh Bonoboooo

Well, I don't know what sort of ape/monkey it was, so who knows?

[Krallis]

Very possible, although it would involve serious gene modification. most test subjects could end up hideously deformed but It could be possible. Who knows eventually we could end up with BIOSHOCK esque powers.

[animmortalwound]

i guess it's possiable, it probably will be in the next 100 years or so