The After Life,

[Retin]

O.K, now no one through a holy grenade or a Jihad on me, but I am going to ask a spiritual question that is outside of Therians, werewolves, and all that other stuff.
In this post I am going to as a question that needs MATURITY and TOLERANCE and also I am going to need people to NOT FLAME each other. This topic to some might be sensitive and it deals with morals, ideas, and beliefs. BUT I feel assured that the people here, well...most of them that is, are mature enough to be able to handle it...

O.K, now the question is...What do YOU think of the After life?

I myself believe that there is one and I think of it as a whole thing of books and life. In my own thoughts of the afterlife I believe that you can do anything, like jump into books and movies, other's lives and things that go beyond imagination and yet are up to our own imagination. I see it as a time of exploration and hardship, not a time to sit around and be basking in a ray of god's light :P cause to me that would be just plain boring. And if I am going to live in eternity after death then I want to NOT be bored, cause that would suck, to be bored for eternity to me as a absolute HELL. Oh...wait I said death and yet I started off saying that the afterlife is of life...so then is death really real? We call the life after death with life...and the afterlife has...the word like connected right to it...hmmm...what do you think?

SO, what do you, personally and patiently, or not, believe or think the afterlife is like? How do you envision it?
And also, do you think that death is real?

(And yes this is spiritual, cause what is more spiritual then death and life, the afterlife?)

Hope you all have some fun with this, and that we get some interesting ideas out there :) thanks!

-Retin

~Revolution without Blood~

[Maverick]

I believe in afterlife, I'm just not sure which one. Personally, I am kind of fed up with organized religion on the whole. The whole idea that if you pick the wrong one you are going to spend eternity in the pit of Hell (it seems that all religions have some version of Hell) has bothered me for some time now. I think that I have come to a point where I believe that it doesn't matter which religion a person chooses, they will all wind up in heaven anyway. The only thing that really counts is that the person believes. Period. I am still kind of scared by the thought that there may be no afterlife.

I have always kind of wondered what an atheist might believe about the afterlife, so if there are any atheists out there, could you kindly share your views?

[Gilenea]

I get the impression that atheists don't really care one way or another. In the end, we all end up in a box. Personally, that's a rather bleak outlook for me.

As to my own beliefs on the afterlife, I've become a fan of reincarnation after much study. I like to believe that after many lifetimes of trying to get it right, there comes a day when we finally do. Then, we ascend and become one with the Source or Creator or "God" or whatever you want to call the Big Kahuna out there.

I believe in gods that give second chances.

Gil

[YoungFang]

Currently I don't particulary believe in an afterlife. I think perhaps before death the mind retreats into itself and therefore what one believes or dreams 'happens'.

[MorganaFang]

I'm still ridiculously afraid of death. Course that doesn't stop me from walking the streets at night or going mountain climbing on vacations.

Though it's not really a solid belief, I feel like the after life is something where souls are reincarnated but first they go to original source. Which could be god, creator, goddess, odin, whatever else and mingled with other souls to be reborn as someone new.

It's weird, it's new age-y and almost like Final Fantasy with the farplane when I visualize it but it makes the most sense to me.

[Gilenea]

It's weird, it's new age-y and almost like Final Fantasy with the farplane when I visualize it but it makes the most sense to me.

Off topic, but you'd TOTALLY be Lulu.

Gil

[DarkHunter]

I don't plan on dying.

[BlackRosePhantom]

http://werewolf.com/vb/showthread.php?t=159 90

[dirtyrat]

What happens when you die? Hm, I don't care as long as it doesn't involve working, schooling, taking showers, reading, having sex with another person, etc. I could go on for hours on this list...:p . Hmmm, am I dead now??? Uh no, I work (I hate work -who wants to get up at any special [ = BARF] time I mean]).

[Tempest]

Hm, I don't care as long as it doesn't involve ... having sex with another person

Uh, wait so let me get this straight. In heaven, you DON'T want to be having sex? This is...very strange to me.

Anyway, my ideas on the afterlife are sketchy at best. I believe there is something after death. I have to believe that because like many people I'm afraid of the idea that after death, there is nothing and you cease to exist or be remembered (I mean, once those who were close to you die, no one will remember you--unless you're famous). Death is scary; it's an unknown thing to everyone and it will be unknown forever, or until we find some way to bring people back from the dead. So I need to believe there is something after death. I don't believe in hell. I think that's a religious scare tactic. I believe in reincarnation and that with each incarnation you learn a new lesson and become closer to being enlightened and one with a divine being. Though who/what that being is I have no idea.
If there is a heaven I would like to think we can create our own. I'm not sure exactly what my heaven would look like. I guess I'll find out when I die.

[ThrasherCub]

I don't plan on dying.

Best answer ever.

I believe in multiple afterlife "realms" (pardon the fluffy-sounding word, but the only other term I could come up with was "places"), but I'm not sure what exactly they are like (having no memories of being there).

I also believe in reincarnation as a possibility, which I fully plan on choosing after I die this time 'round.

I posted this recently in some other thread, but here again is part of the Gnostic Mass, specifically something relevant which is recited by the Deacon.

Unto them from whose eyes the veil of life hath fallen may there be granted the accomplishment of their true Wills; whether they will absorption in the Infinite, or to be united with their chosen and preferred, or to be in contemplation, or to be at peace, or to achieve the labour and heroism of incarnation on this planet or another, or in any Star, or aught else, unto them may there be granted the accomplishment of their wills; yea, the accomplishment of their wills.

[Rainheart]

I believe that there's an afterlife, but it's brief, and then you go back to earth. I believe in each life you have to learn some important lesson, and that when you learn it, you go to the afterlife, where you sit around until you're given a new lesson to learn. When you think about it, life really is one big learning experience.

[dirtyrat]

I'm not sure exactly what my heaven would look like. I guess I'll find out when I die.
I'm pretty sure I'll get there before you do. So, I'll try to make sure you have a room with a nice view, or at least see if there's some closet space available. If anything, you can sleep on my lawn ( just watch the dog shit). :p

[ThrasherCub]

( just watch the dog shit). :p

Someone once told me that in heaven you eat, but you don't ever need to crap.

It's good and all to contemplate one's beliefs on the possible afterlife, but once you reach the point where you're plotting out our poo-free digestive systems you are officially an obsessive freak.

[UNODRAGONE]

Someone once told me that in heaven you eat, but you don't ever need to crap.

It's good and all to contemplate one's beliefs on the possible afterlife, but once you reach the point where you're plotting out our poo-free digestive systems you are officially an obsessive freak.

makes you wonder what happens to the food? Kind of reminds me of that Southpark episode where they shit out their mouths (cringes)

[RoseLillianJade]

I be in reincarnation. I think that when you die your spirit lives on and is reborn. So when another human, animal, ect is having sex and life is being created your spirit is drawn to it and you become what they are making (which is a baby). This is how I think reincarnation works.

[UNODRAGONE]

I be in reincarnation. I think that when you die your spirit lives on and is reborn. So when another human, animal, ect is having sex and life is being created your spirit is drawn to it and you become what they are making (which is a baby). This is how I think reincarnation works.


I like the idea spirits are drawn to sex :D

[Vendetta]

I get the impression that atheists don't really care one way or another. In the end, we all end up in a box. Personally, that's a rather bleak outlook for me.
Which is exactly why atheists should get more respect, IMO. They're willing to pretty much accept the fact that nothing happens to them when they die (or at least that they don't "go" somewhere.)

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be nice to believe in a giant invisible dude sweeping us up into the clouds to have an enternity of "good times" (not the TV show - dyn-o-mite!) But alas, my mind rejects that as being pretty much outside the realm of possibility.

[Hoplite]

well, on the topic i do believe in afterlife...i believe in life after death or the resurrection...heave n and hell....after death, you live for and eternity either happily or in a great misery depending on your deeds

[DarkHunter]

well, on the topic i do believe in afterlife...i believe in life after death or the resurrection...heave n and hell....after death, you live for and eternity either happily or in a great misery depending on your deeds

How is an eternity of being cooked in an oven (or some of the more colorful explorations of Dante) Justice?

[Retin]

Hmmm, what if in the After life you just ate one cookie after another and each one tasted better then the last one. Would you keep eating the cookies? Hmmm...

[UNODRAGONE]

Hmmm, what if in the After life you just ate one cookie after another and each one tasted better then the last one. Would you keep eating the cookies? Hmmm...

God I love your thinking :)

[Necro Mortis]

I'm still ridiculously afraid of death. Course that doesn't stop me from walking the streets at night or going mountain climbing on vacations.

It's weird, it's new age-y and almost like Final Fantasy with the farplane when I visualize it but it makes the most sense to me.

Me too, and it hasn't stopped me getting into knife fights or deterred me from my hobby as the teeth cleaner at the local shark aquarium.

The farplane pretty much sums it up brilliantly. I wouldn't mind spending eternity there. Or at least a few weeks holiday.

I think when you die whatever you believe in happens to you. After all, religion is based on belief, if gods exist they do so through belief so who’s to say that what we as individuals doesn’t exist, even if just to us.

[RQ]

I'm OK with there being no afterlife. Why isn't the time we get here on earth enough for some people? I don't need the promise of paradise or the threat of damnation to coerce me into leading a good life. If more people were more accepting of the fact that we, like everything else, are born, live, and die, never to be sentient or active again, I think fewer people would squander their lives in greed and idleness.

Nobody more than me would like to believe that an afterlife exists, and we'll all be reunited again someday to spend eternity in happiness and grace, in the company of those we love most. I wish it were true.
My education just doesn't allow me to believe it.

[Rascaduanok]

I believe that NOTHING happens after we die. Our consciousness ceases permanently. That’s it. No going back or second tries. So make the most of your time here. And in that spirit let me add I’ve had great fun getting to know you folks! :)

[MorganaFang]

I believe that NOTHING happens after we die. Our consciousness ceases permanently. That’s it. No going back or second tries. So make the most of your time here. And in that spirit let me add I’ve had great fun getting to know you folks! :)

That scares the hell out of me. I like living way too much.

[Rainheart]

I'm gonna stick with what one of the monks at my church said: "If I die and find out there's no heaven, I'm gonna be pissed as hell."

[Hopper]

My lack of belief in an afterlife was something that in part made me seriously question my religious beliefs. It's odd because I do believe in a God but I've always been skeptical of the idea of afterlife. After a while, I eventually decided that it really doesn't matter what I believe as long as I live my life the way I want to live it.

[LV426]

Heaven and hell can't exist. According to christians, heaven is perfect. You live in perfect happiness. You are never cold or hungry, never lonely or sad, never wanting for anything. However let's say you die and you go to heaven, but your family whom you love dearly all died and went to hell, then you would be sad missing them and wanting to be with them and knowing that they would never be in heaven with you. So now you are sad so either A. you have to leave heaven because you are now sad or B. Heaven can't exist because you are sad.

Anyway I believe that everything when it dies just return to the big ball of goo in the universe from which they are then recycled into all sorts of universal matter.

[Vendetta]

Heaven and hell can't exist. According to christians, heaven is perfect. You live in perfect happiness. You are never cold or hungry, never lonely or sad, never wanting for anything. However let's say you die and you go to heaven, but your family whom you love dearly all died and went to hell, then you would be sad missing them and wanting to be with them and knowing that they would never be in heaven with you. So now you are sad so either A. you have to leave heaven because you are now sad or B. Heaven can't exist because you are sad.
I'd imagine you wouldn't BE sad, you'd still be all blissful (because, you know, Heaven.) Which, if you think about it, is a bit MORE fucked up.

[Tempest]

I'd imagine you wouldn't BE sad, you'd still be all blissful (because, you know, Heaven.) Which, if you think about it, is a bit MORE fucked up.

Either that or heaven automatically creates duplicates of your loved ones that are in hell and just keeps you in the dark about it.

[Rainheart]

Hmm... maybe Earth is hell, and heaven is a brief respite before you go back?

[RoseLillianJade]

I like the idea of earth being hell. I mean with all of the murder and good things going on i could imagine this being hell.

[Nimue]

I kinda hope I don't come back. I sure don't want to THIS all over again, and I'm a little afraid what might be waiting given the shape of the world anyway. Will it be worse? Will it even be here? LOL. The sun is only a star and all stars nova eventually.

Biblically speaking, it does say the devil will be loosed again. Sounds like fun eh?:) *sarcasm*

I believe in an afterlife and I believe there are some caught in between.

If there isn't an afterlife that wouldn't be a bad thing. Blip you no longer exist. You wouldn't even remember you once did.

I don't fear death but I'm kinda not wild about pain.

[Necro Mortis]

I am weird. I think weird thoughts a lot like, I wonder if the reason why the population has increased is that more souls are returning to earth now that the quality of living is so much better but it's a lottery where you end up. If you wish to remain as a free spirit you can, or you can return to earth. Then again, I also think that there is a limited ammount of control as to what you come back as. Otherwise the earth would be over-run with dolphins, wolves, eagles and tigers and there wouldn't be a dung-beetle or rat anywhere on the whole planet. I don't think a deity dictates where you go, I just think that your soul inhabits a vessel that needs to live.
Hmmm, this is starting to sound a little bit like the life stream from FF7...

[dirtyrat]

Werid? No "Neck" Mortis - your more like scary (with scary thoughts).

I, myself, wonder where all the virgins go after death..(I hope it's not a shopping mall :eek:...unless of course it's 3 floors and with an awesome food court! :p )

[Nimue]

if the reason why the population has increased is that more souls are returning to earth now that the quality of living is so much better but it's a lottery where you end up.

Now that's an interesting thought.

there is a limited ammount of control as to what you come back as. Otherwise the earth would be over-run with dolphins, wolves, eagles and tigers and there wouldn't be a dung-beetle or rat anywhere on the whole planet

Solid point.

[Rascaduanok]

I like the idea of earth being hell. I mean with all of the murder and good things going on i could imagine this being hell.

As bad as it can get, I don’t consider the earth Hell by any stretch of the imagination. I’d feel more inclined to refer to it as limbo.

[WahteverKittyK]

Reincarnation.

[LV426]

Either that or heaven automatically creates duplicates of your loved ones that are in hell and just keeps you in the dark about it.

Which is even more fucked up because then God who supposedly hates lies would be lying to everyone.

[Destiny]

Well...I believe in Heaven, and I believe my sister is up there...I don't think they make duplicates ;)

But really I think that you just don't really think about that or whatever...you're not supposed to be able to feel sad and stuff...I think everything will be at peace and stuff. The way we wish the world really was I think it will be like that in Heaven...

[Shadow_writer]

I actually think the afterlife is what you make of it. Because one person hell is another persons heaven if you get my drift.
Example: The Vikings would always make sure to die with their axe in hand so they could gain access to their afterlife which was filled with bloody battle.
Thats there heaven to a lot of us it would be hell.
So yeah, I think its what you make of it. Just like God...

[Galliard]

I went to church a looong time ago, and when I asked about heaven, he told me that the reason that we'd all be happy and blissful is because all we'd do all eternity is look at God and sing his praises.
That way, even if your family WAS up in heaven, you wouldn't notice, because you're busy giving God the biggest ego pet EVER! No offense, but I think I'd be bored with that.

I personally believe in reincarnation, and yeah, I also believe that we aren't confined to just this one world. I mean, if we find bacteria on Mars, then I'm pretty sure there's life elsewhere, too, and I agree about the whole not really having too much control as what you reincarnate as.

[Necro Mortis]

I went to church a looong time ago, and when I asked about heaven, he told me that the reason that we'd all be happy and blissful is because all we'd do all eternity is look at God and sing his praises.
That way, even if your family WAS up in heaven, you wouldn't notice, because you're busy giving God the biggest ego pet EVER! No offense, but I think I'd be bored with that.

I personally believe in reincarnation, and yeah, I also believe that we aren't confined to just this one world. I mean, if we find bacteria on Mars, then I'm pretty sure there's life elsewhere, too, and I agree about the whole not really having too much control as what you reincarnate as.

Inter-galactic reincarnation? I like it. I'ma come back as Klak'thar on Naroshtarn!
You know that could explain why people WOULD choose to be things like dung beetles, if they came from another planet where animal feces was currency well, you just try and stop them!

[ThrasherCub]

I personally believe in reincarnation, and yeah, I also believe that we aren't confined to just this one world. I mean, if we find bacteria on Mars, then I'm pretty sure there's life elsewhere, too, and I agree about the whole not really having too much control as what you reincarnate as.

Not sure you care at all, but I thought you might find it interesting that the Gnostic Mass agrees with you on that:

"Unto them from whose eyes the veil of life hath fallen may there be granted the accomplishment of their true Wills; whether they will absorption in the Infinite, or to be united with their chosen and preferred, or to be in contemplation, or to be at peace, or to achieve the labour and heroism of incarnation on this planet or another, or in any Star, or aught else, unto them may there be granted the accomplishment of their wills; yea, the accomplishment of their wills. "

[Destiny]

I went to church a looong time ago, and when I asked about heaven, he told me that the reason that we'd all be happy and blissful is because all we'd do all eternity is look at God and sing his praises.
That way, even if your family WAS up in heaven, you wouldn't notice, because you're busy giving God the biggest ego pet EVER! No offense, but I think I'd be bored with that.

I personally believe in reincarnation, and yeah, I also believe that we aren't confined to just this one world. I mean, if we find bacteria on Mars, then I'm pretty sure there's life elsewhere, too, and I agree about the whole not really having too much control as what you reincarnate as.
Actually I was taught that when you get to heaven you meet Jesus, some of the kings of the bible, disciples, and God. But also, even if praising him, you spend your life in Heaven the way you'd want to spend your life on earth, like if I wanted a mansion I'd have a mansion...the Heaven I've heard about you get to be with your family and friends a good deal of the time...I don't think I've explained it correctly, but yeah.


Yeah, alien reincarnation...I like it.

[ThrasherCub]

Actually I was taught that when you get to heaven you meet Jesus, some of the kings of the bible, disciples, and God. But also, even if praising him, you spend your life in Heaven the way you'd want to spend your life on earth, like if I wanted a mansion I'd have a mansion...the Heaven I've heard about you get to be with your family and friends a good deal of the time...I don't think I've explained it correctly, but yeah.


Yeah, alien reincarnation...I like it.

I stopped believing in heaven as an absolute end. Look at it logically:



Heaven is perfect.

I hate easy-going easy stuff, so I'd need some hard challenges for it to be perfect for me.

If I can't fail at it, then it's not a real challenge and so would disappoint me, thereby leaving heaven imperfect.

If I can fail at it, and do, I'll then be sad that I failed, thereby leaving heaven imperfect because I'm now in the land of perpetual happiness being quite unhappy.

Ergo, for heaven to be perfect, there must be the option of reincarnation for people like me.

[The Master]

Our bodies are made out the same same stuff the universe itself is made out of. Everything is. Therefore, we are a part for the Universe that is self aware and capable of observing itself. Everyone and everything in existence just keeps recycling itself until it fizzles back down into a singularity or zero-point field. Time itself did not exist before this singularity, according to physics.
Our individual brains give off electromagnetic signals and high electromagnetic fields are scientifically known to alter consciousness and make people see things that are not there. Perhaps when we die, our individual consciousness is just released to make for it whatever it wants. We make our own heaven or dwell in our own self-made hell. I believe residual hauntings that repeat themselves over and over again are an individuals consciousness that is stuck in a traumatic loop. Sort of like a dream in which the brain tries to find a resolution to a problem. Intelligent ghosts could be a consciousness that has remained self aware like a lucid dream.

On the skeptical side of things, memories are scientifically proven to be stored in cells within the brain called neurons. When a neuron dies, you lose memory. This is what happens in neuro-degenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and simple old age when neurons naturally begin to die off. So, if all your neurons die, are you really you anymore?

[Destiny]

I don't think time really exists. We all just decided we had to go to bed to avoid sleep deprivation, plus humanity is lazy, or can be.

I like to think that ,even if some people think it's a delusion, I'd like to live like that for eternity if it was perfect. I mean when the world ends or you die, would you rather think you're in Heaven, or whatever you believe in, or do you want to think that you no longer exist at all? Time has been so forced into our heads that some or all of us are scared we don't have a lot of time left...how can something no longer exist at all? Though completely different than humanity in comparison I'll still say, "An idea never dies. Someone thought of it once, there's no stopping someone bringing it back." The idea, gesture, thought of time has ruined us. People only think of the time they have on earth because of that. I'm not scared of dying I'm scared of living, my fate. I'm scared of my own namesake. Eternity is even worse to think about.

Probably not.

[Daciana]

I have some interesting things I want to discuss and I'd love for everyone here to participate and give me their opinions on the matter. I am not a christian nor am I an atheist. My idea systems remain open because at this point in my life I am still trying to decide, through research, where I am and what I believe.

You know... I've read the bible in it's entirety and I haven't found anywhere in the bible where it says that when we die we will go to heaven. The bible makes an allusion to the earth will being remade into a paradise and that heaven and the earth will converge; but I haven't found anywhere that it says we, as humans, here on earth, go to heaven. Revelation 21:1 states "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea."

The Bible does describe the hope of life after death, but it is on earth and not in heaven, and it happens when Jesus returns (the second coming), not the moment we die (according to the bible).

I have found nothing in scripture about us having any kind of consciousness while dead (aside from a few allegorical poems). In fact, several verses teach quite clearly that there is no consciousness in death. If you'd like to see for yourself, crack open your bible and read Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalm 6:5; 115:17.

This may shock some of you, as it did me, but nowhere in the Bible does God say that any one of us has an immortal soul. Those two words are never found together in the bible. In fact, no where in the bible does it state that we have a soul at all. It does, however, state that we are a soul.

In Genesis 2:7 it says, "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Notice that we can derive an equation from this statement:
"Dust of ground" + "breath of life" = "a living soul."

Take notice of the words "became a living soul". The scripture does not say God GAVE him a soul, nor does God say that it is immortal. Before I digress I would like to make sure that the significance of this simple exposition of scripture is not missed. There is a world of difference between being something and having something. For example, you can BE a platypus or you can HAVE a platypus. BEING something is a state, something that cannot be separated from who or what you are. HAVING something is not a state but just a matter of ownership. Make sense?

But, I digress.

If we look at the equation we can see that it would take two things to make a soul. First we would need the "dust of ground". This dust is referring to man's physical body. If we look at our bodies we can see that it is made up of many different kinds of minerals and organic compounds. Thus God formed us from "dust". If we look back at Genesis 2:7 have we at this point become a soul? No, we are missing the "breath of life". After God formed us he then gave us the breath of life. At this point we are a soul, as defined in the bible.

(Continued on next page/in next post...)

[Daciana]

(...continued from previous page.)

Now we have a problem. Since we ARE a soul, can we die? Yes, it is obvious from all of our personal experiences that people die. However, does the bible say that a soul can die? Again, the answer is yes. It says in Ezekiel 18:4, "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth it shall DIE.".

So when souls die, where do they go? Are they in heaven, hell, purgatory or perhaps the astral plane? I think the answer is none of the above. Firstly, the soul is not immortal, only God is immortal. This is shown in 1 Timothy 6:13-16. It says, "I give thee charge in the sight of God, who Quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession, that thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; WHO ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen." So clearly the bible states that only God is immortal.

Second, what happens when you die? In Ecclesiastes 12:7 it says, "Then shall the DUST RETURN TO THE EARTH as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." As shown here, the physical body decomposes or goes back to the "dust" it came from. Dead bodies are not taken to heaven. That would be pretty creepy.

Now that leaves some of us thinking, You see, I knew it. The SPIRIT goes back to God, ha ha! Maybe this would be right; it does go back to God. However, the modern meaning of the word "spirit" is different from its use in ancient Hebrew. The word for "spirit" is Ruwach; this word can mean BREATH, exhalation, and LIFE. I don't think it means "spirit" as in a being without body who has a will, thoughts and emotions. It would make more sense that it is the "life energy", the stuff that makes us tick, that is what goes back to God.

Now that we have a biblical picture about death, having been show what death is not (according to the bible), we are now more able to find out what it is. In John 11:11-14 we find Jesus talking to the Disciples about Lazarus who has been sick and has died, but the Disciples don't know this yet. Jesus says to them, "'Our friend Lazarus sleepth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.' Then said his disciples, 'Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.' Howbeit Jesus spake of his DEATH: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, 'Lazarus is dead.'"

As we can see Jesus was speaking of death as a sleep. In fact, the bible speaks of death as a sleep over 50 times. So everyone who has died from Adam's time to ours is now "asleep". Unthinking, unknowing, oblivious to all things. Then that leads me to think that death is not a "door" to be passed through to a greater knowledge. Death is not the doorway to God. It would make more sense that death merely separates us from God and from the world.

Now that we have read from a biblical standpoint on the physical effects of death, what happens to all of our memories, our passions, our hopes and dreams? According to the bible they all disappear. We don't think, cry, worry, hope, love, hate, or contemplate anything. In Psalm 146:4 it says, "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his THOUGHTS perish." Another possible explanation lies in Ecclesiastes 9:5, "For the LIVING know that they shall die: but the dead KNOW NOT ANYTHING." Or even Isaiah 38:10-ll, "I said in the cutting off of my days, I shall go to the gates of the grave: I am deprived of the residues of my years. I said, I shall not see the Lord, even the Lord, in the land of the living: I shall behold man no more with the inhabitants of the world." This makes me stop and think. If this person is going to the grave, why does it say that he won't see the Lord? Also, Psalm 6:5 where David is praying to God, "For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" That would mean that King David, who was (according to the bible) very close to God, knew that only death would separate him from his Heavenly Father. I think that's worth some contemplating.

Another topic I'd like to touch on are those "near death" experiences people have where they claim to see all their loved ones waiting for them in heaven. However, we now can ascertain from what we've just read that the bible says that we do not immediately go to heaven when we die... so what about the loved ones and familiar faces that are waiting for us? Again, we also know now through what we've read that the bible says once you die you cease to retain any knowledge of who you were, what you did, who you knew, etc. So, how is it that you could be seeing these loved ones?

Let's think about something from a different angle. If we indeed do HAVE a soul (contrary to what the bible states) instead of BEING a soul (in accordance with what the bible states) and that soul ascends to heaven once we die, where we are greeted by loved ones, how are we able to even identify them as loved ones? Memories and the ability to retain associations is a purely biological, physiological process. The process of forming a memory and keeping it occurs because of a chemical process in our brains, in the gray matter. If when we die our body ceases to function and stops living, that would mean that along with every other vital organ dying, that our brain dies as well and those chemical processes stop. So then, I ask you, what is it that could possibly retain memory or association once we die? If the soul is just "breath" or a "life force" that kept our bodies ticking, then that could mean that it is just some sort of formless energy body. A mass of energy that has no organ, such as the brain, to record or remember memories. So how it is even possible to recognize loved ones or even remember who we were?

I think the process of dying is very traumatic for the mind to cope with. I think since mortality is such an unknown and generally feared process that we all have to go through eventually, that the human mind has developed a coping mechanism for it. Just like when humans experience an extraordinary amount of pain they go unconscious. Basically, whenever there is an overload of information, be it pain, surprise, fear or humiliation, the mind has to be able to cope with it however it can. When one is starving, and I mean hasn't eaten in weeks and is starting to die, a kind of euphoria starts to take over; that would be another example of a coping mechanism. It is my school of thought that the dying process also comes with a coping mechanism. Sort of like a screen saver for a computer. If we start dying and are aware that we are dying, think of the fear that is generated by that knowledge. Why wouldn't the brain say, "Here you go, here's some nice things to look at, some good memories. Oh and look here! People you love and miss are here, right here with you. It's okay, you can relax, you're not alone." Which would make the dying process easier for us to COPE with. Because death is one of the things we have no clue about and one of the experiences that we have to go through totally and completely alone. We know what happens, we know how it goes... but we don't know for a fact, conclusively, what awaits us after death. IF anything awaits us after death. That can be a pretty scary thing to face. The unknown is always feared.

This is not necessarily what I believe; however IF I believed in scripture I would be convinced that there is NO afterlife until after the second coming of Christ. What's everyone else's opinion?


Daciana

[Gilenea]

This is a beef of mine with Christianity. In Bible school, I was always taught that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven, and you go to heaven when you die if you're a good person and believe what the nice ladies in the flower print dresses say.

I've run across this information in my travels, and I must say bravo for bringing it to light. Very eloquently done and with evidence and support, too!

I'm just waiting for a died-in-the-wool Christian to come back with scripture saying we DO go to heaven, providing evidence of course, or fire back with "Well, that's ONE way of looking at it." Oh, the hypocrisy.

Religion isn't up to interpretation. If there are a set form of strict rules, there can't be different schools of thought in regards to the same set of rules. I mean, it's all pretty much in the Bible, right? Go take a look, and don't pick and choose what to hold true if you call yourself a Christian.

As for me, I believe in reincarnation. I think there is a celestial "waiting room" in the after life where your essence is able to reflect on your previous life (as for people who commit suicide or some equally "bad" way to die, I believe there is a separate place for them... Maybe not as plush, ya know?). After however many lifetimes it takes, you finally reach the point where you have learned as much as you have to learn, and you can ascend to a higher conscious when you pass on. Then you join the Source or the Creator or whatever you want to call it, and a new soul is born to begin their journey (this is how I believe truly clueless people come to be). There's a little more to it, but that's the dry toast version.

Gil

[LV426]

Great big ball of goo that fuels the universe and when we go our goo goes back into the great ball to be recycled.

[Fenris_brood]

Great big ball of goo that fuels the universe and when we go our goo goes back into the great ball to be recycled.

Thats a very good way of putting it :)

[Rainheart]

Daciana, I greatly applaud your ability to fully investigate a subject and make my head spin at the same time. :)

Just one little part: the bible is supposed to be the literal word of God, but really is what man thinks it is. So it may well be distorted through different views of the author or authors. Just a thought I had. If you already listed that possibility, I'm sorry. My head hurt too much after halfway through the second post. :D

[DamienMidgard]

I am not a spiritual person and I personally feel that no one can know what waits for them in the afterlife or lack their of. However it has been scientifically proven that all living things have energy, and that energy can not be created or destroyed. Scientist have also recorded energy leaving dead bodies. Now dose this energy that leaves the body have a conscious as we know it? Is this energy the “soul” or “spirit" of the deceased? Probably not, But I can not say for sure. I Personally believe in reincarnation. Probably not the same way as most however. I feel when our bodies stop living, its just a part of the cycle of life. The worms and maggots will feast on my rotting corpse and my body will become fertilizer for the earth . Birds will eat the worms and maggots, cats will eat the birds, dogs will eat the cats and the Chinese will eat the dogs.:eek: I will continue to exist, just not how I existed before. This is just my opinion, and I am still living and learning.

[dwulf]

I don't really feel the need for an afterlife. Just try your best with the cards you're dealt. No one can fault you for that. We are all equal in death. To be honest, I think death is what makes life so precious and when people speak of eternal life or the after life, I get to thinking, what the hell was the point in that. But that's just me.