The Offical Anonymous vs Scientology Thread

[BlackRosePhantom]

I'm creating this thread as a place to put any and all material related with the Cult/Church of Scientology and/or the leaderless cyberactivist group know as Anonymous.

This thing all started with the Tom Cruise video that we all watched (you'll be able to find linkage to that video in the "Tom Cruise is crazy as hell" thread). Then Anonymous sent a video in response, entitled "Message to Scientology (http://youtube.com/watch?v=JCbKv9yiLiQ)". Then, on February 10th, 2008, Lisa McPherson birthday, they went to the streets and globally protested. Almost 8,000 people in presence, and many more people up for the cause. Anonymous claims that the Church of Scientology is an evil organization that merely wants the money of its followers and absolutely hates all criticism about it (which is why they call themselves Anonymous, so the church can't find out their identities and then harass them). The Church of Scientology is denying these claims and is interested calling Anonymous a group of cowardly cyberterrorist and religious bigots against freedom of religion. Anonymous only claims to be against their 'tactics' and not the religion itself.

That's the basic rundown. Anyone is free to discuss about Anonymous & Scientology freely here and can post links concerning either one or both here. I'll start by posting the second video from Anonymous, entitled "Another Message to Scientology (http://youtube.com/watch?v=cg2XSeWylYE)", as well as Scientology's message in response to the protest, entitled "Message To Anonymous (http://youtube.com/watch?v=j5mGiViCcy4)". I would also like to add that anyone wanting to discuss the group called "Voiceless" is also welcome to.

Now then, please processed to discussion. Feel free to talk/debate about anything as long as it pertains to what has already been mentioned, and remember Knowledge Is Free.

[Kaden]

This is one of the greatest things ever. There are a lot of unfortunate victims of Scientology. They brainwash you into thinking you are depressed and then they make you pay thousands upon thousands of dollars to buy your salvation.

[BlackRosePhantom]

This is one of the greatest things ever. There are a lot of unfortunate victims of Scientology. They brainwash you into thinking you are depressed and then they make you pay thousands upon thousands of dollars to buy your salvation.


360,000 dollars (in U.S. currency) to be exact, and that excludes the donations they probably get from these same brainwashed members. I hope I didn't come off too anti-Scientology in my first post. I wanted that one to have a neutral point for all discussion to start off on. Oh, and if discussion doesn't pick up right away, that's fine by me, because we have almost a month till the next protest, and that isn't going to be the last either. This thing might take years of protesting before Anonymous finally wins.

[Kaden]

Anonymous will win if everyone works together as part of a centralized think tank and works peacefully and with the police. I think that is highly important.

[Sazabi]

Anonymous will win if everyone works together as part of a centralized think tank and works peacefully and with the police. I think that is highly important.

Anon can't really do much other than irritate them. I've been keeping tabs on this and find it hilarious. Theres a full timeline with all of the videos and events over on SA.

[Gilenea]

...Church of Scientology is an evil organization that merely wants the money of its followers and absolutely hates all criticism about it...

Sounds like Scientology has more in common with Christianity than I thought.

Gil

[BlackRosePhantom]

Sounds like Scientology has more in common with Christianity than I thought.

Gil

Except Christianity doesn't harass those that publicly critisize it. And I think L. Ron Hubbard (founder of Scientology) said it best with this quote of his: "Suppressive Person Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."

~ L. Ron Hubbard: PENALTIES FOR LOWER CONDITIONS, HCO Policy Letter of 18 October 1967

It's their 'Fair Game' policy. They claim to not use it any more, but ex-scientologist or 'SP' (suppressive person) whom have told their stories of harassment by Scientology say otherwise.

[Hopper]

What irritates me is that in the Response to Anonymous the CoS (or whoever made it) talks about all the greater evils in the world. Just because someone else does something worse doesn't mean that what you do is any less of a crime.

I tried to learn a little bit more about Scientology because of all these protests and discovered that I couldn't make heads or tails of it.

For the record does anyone know if they actually believe in a Lord Xenu or if that's just some kind of joke?

[john the baptist]

The way I've seen it so far some do, some don't. I know a guy who's parents are into Scientology.

[Kaden]

They do actually believe in Xenu, but they only find out about him at OT III and its hard and expensive to get there. The higher ups keep it secret and they supress the information from people below OT III.

They even give their new people things called ScioSitters for their computers. They basically block things on the internet, anything that speaks against scientology. Sites like xenu.net, whyaretheydead.net, and youfoundthecard.com all get blocked.

[john the baptist]

That xenu.net is kinda ironic.

[Kaden]

Its named that for a reason. They don't worship Xenu. Xenu is the reason we all suffer according to the doctrines.

[Kaden]

http://www.lotsofscam.nl/shawn.jpg

Shawn Lonsdale
Long time critic of church of Scientology, lived in Clearwater, Florida (the mecca of Scientology). He made films about the Church's illicit practices (including forced Child labor). He was found dead this weekend in his room. Here's the oddity, the Clearwater Police (who are practically owned by the church) almost instantly declared it a suicide.

A hose was run up from his car exhaust to his bedroom. .. that's a new one. It sounds more like murder to me, and with Scientology's track record, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Rest in Peace Shawn.

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/19/Northpinellas/Scourge_of_Scientolo g.shtml

He was also interviewed by John Sweeney on the BBC's Panorama "Scientology & Me"

[Hopper]

They even give their new people things called ScioSitters for their computers. They basically block things on the internet, anything that speaks against scientology. Sites like xenu.net, whyaretheydead.net, and youfoundthecard.com all get blocked.

You'd think that would be an indication to some people that the organization is up to no good...

They have a pretty interesting documentary about Scientology on youtube...I think it's that BBC show you mentioned. Here's the first part of it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3pG49lg5AU

[Galliard]

UUM, this is waaay creepy. I mean, I don't give a damn if you worship Jeff the god of Biscuits, it's complete and utter bull**** to kill someone just because they think you're a whack job and/or don't believe what you're spewing as religion.

The police need to be roasted alive for covering for a murder. They are there to protect and serve the populace as a whole, not serve the wealthy and suppress those with civil voices. And yes, I believe, as a rule, that police officers who violate that should be roasted alive summarily.:droolbloo

[DarkHunter]

Makes you wonder why people are so paranoid about nice groups like Freemasons and Satanists. Here is something you want to watch out for.

Incidentally, I'm still waiting to get sick and die from reading about Xenu, the evil alien overlord.

[john the baptist]

Scientollagy is so stupid. An alein is the reason we get sad, come on something at least half-way beleivable would be nice!

[Kaden]

Freemasons are incredibly nice people and I've had several kind Satanists friends (and I'm Catholic so figure that one out).
Scientology though is just plain scary as fuck. Founder L. Ron Hubbard used to study under Crowley and performed ritualistic abortions in his magic (referenced from www.ronthenut.org) .

[DarkHunter]

Freemasons are incredibly nice people and I've had several kind Satanists friends (and I'm Catholic so figure that one out).
Scientology though is just plain scary as fuck. Founder L. Ron Hubbard used to study under Crowley and performed ritualistic abortions in his magic (referenced from www.ronthenut.org) .

Another reason to dance and piss on Crowley's grave.

I'm used to groups making up things about their founders. But its baffling to hear what people think Hubbard did. Nuclear physics, adventuring into jungles. Its all further proof that people are retarded.

[Kaden]

Indeed. Have you seen his grades in college? The man was a bleeding idiot when it came to academics. He got booted from the military for using Mexico as target practice in his Sub he commanded during WW2!!!

[UNODRAGONE]

Freemasons are incredibly nice people and I've had several kind Satanists friends (and I'm Catholic so figure that one out).
Scientology though is just plain scary as fuck. Founder L. Ron Hubbard used to study under Crowley and performed ritualistic abortions in his magic (referenced from www.ronthenut.org) .

I wasn't aware magic was involved in Scientology?

[Kaden]

Its not. That's what he did prior to starting the church.

[UNODRAGONE]

Its not. That's what he did prior to starting the church.

wow yeah thats a little how do you say......moronic

[Gilenea]

Except Christianity doesn't harass those that publicly critisize it.

I guess you're right. Openly telling people that they're damned for all eternity for going against Christianity isn't harrassment.

It's correct. Can't harrass someone with the "truth," right?

Gil

[john the baptist]

They don't harass they try to spread their trueth. I am ironically a christian. You'll probably just think I'm standing up for my religion. What I'm saying is Christians don't threaten to kill you, they say what they beleive is the trueth. If you don't agree, your loss. I am going to be laughing if I'm up in heaven why your in HELL! :) (Laughing maniacly)

[Sazabi]

I guess you're right. Openly telling people that they're damned for all eternity for going against Christianity isn't harrassment.

It's correct. Can't harrass someone with the "truth," right?



Freedom of speech is not harassment in most cases. I might not like what someone is saying, but until they infringe my rights or take active means against me, who cares?

Church of scientology goes FAR beyond mere words, they pile people with lawsuits, and there are alot of very shady criminal dealings they're involved with.

If someone tells me I'm going to hell, I ridicule him and call him a faggot. If someone piles 6 lawsuits on me and follows me home every night in unmarked vehicles, I feel a hell of a lot more "harassed".

they say what they beleive is the trueth. If you don't agree, your loss. I am going to be laughing if I'm up in heaven why your in HELL! :)

See? it's easy to call him a faggot and move on, because he's not doing anything to actively infringe on your rights. Church of Scientology operates in a far more sinister way.

[Kaden]

Gil, I like you and all, I really do, but Sazabi is right. There is a lot more to it than just the "Wah, you said my religion is wrong so you're a bad person" stuff. They do sue, they harrass you, they do smear campaigns and the might even try to kill you. Being a suppressive person is like having a big fucking target on your head.

Oh and John, you're making the rest of us Christians look bad. Shut up please. Oh and I don't believe that people who don't believe in Jesus go to hell. I believe you go to heaven based on the good you perform as an individual. I believe Ghandi is in Heaven right now.

[Faolan]

Fuck You I'm Not A FAGGOT!

Calm the fuck down kid. He did not call you a faggot per se(SP?) He means you are just a little person that others can say "What ever" too. Church of Scientology harasses people and claims only people who are "Criminals" hate Scientology. Meaning if you speak out against Scientology you are hiding something and what ever it is your hiding is a crime.

[DarkHunter]

Yeah because "Spiritual Technology" and all of the "auditing" isn't most probably derived from Crowley's work (like Wicca). Not that I've researched THAT too heavily (I imagine I will at some point, I just have more pressing and interesting things to do right now).

Christianity USED to be as bad as that. They used to declare you nonhuman, meaning anybody could do whatever they want to you (excommunication!). No they're not that bad now and thats good. Scientology is currently the worst cult in the world. And that took some doing too.

[john the baptist]

You have a very unfunny sense of humor.

[john the baptist]

I wasn't very happy when I wrote that and I'm still not that's why I haven't changed it. I do live in my own demented world though.

[BlackRosePhantom]

Now then, in other news to insignifigant bitching, I would like to anounce that the dates for the next two world-wide protests are 3/15 (March 15th, 2008), the 'Ides of March', and 4/12 (April 12th, 2008) , 'Operation Reconnect'. The main focus of the Ides of March protest is going to be on Scientology Tax Exemption Status. There has been talk of world wide rickrolling, where every protest will dedicate 3.5 minutes to sign Rucky Astley's "Never Gonna Give You Up", though there is still debate on whether to do it or not, and if it should be that song and not another enjoyously bad 80's pop song. More information can be provided at this link (http://forums.enturbulation .org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2427&st=0&sk=t&sd=a). We had nearly 9,000 people in attendance (numbers added up at www. enturblation.org, it is a great place to gain information on Anonymous) on Lisa's birthday, and the Ides of March seem to hold even more promise. Note: If anyone does plan to attend any of the protests, please remember that 'honk if' signs shouldn't include the word 'hate', but instead an alternitive word such as 'oppose'. Rules to protesting can be found here (http://youtube.com/watch?v=eHWzUa6sGd4)
(do note that these were written for the 10th, but should also be followed in later protests). Thank you.

[Hopper]

Out of curiosity, what does everyone plan to acheive from protesting...besides creating public awareness I mean. Because that in itself isn't going to bring down the organization. Is Anonymous basically just trying to get the government to look into changing their tax exemption status?

[Sazabi]

Is Anonymous basically just trying to get the government to look into changing their tax exemption status?

/b doesn't care about anything but being dicks basically. Scientology just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

[Kaden]

The group I'm involved in is concerned with the deaths caused by Scientology and the tax exempt status among other things.

[Hopper]

The group I'm involved in is concerned with the deaths caused by Scientology and the tax exempt status among other things.

Right, but protesting alone won't be able to take down a buisness. It's not like there is going to be a vote on whether to keep CoS or not. I would imagine that a good idea would be to flood local officials mailboxes with letters protesting CoS instead of just protesting by picket sign. That way someone might actually look into the issue. Because right now, although it's getting a lot of attention, it really can't do anything but annoy them.

[Kaden]

We're bringing attention to it though. And through that we are also on a mailing campaign to our local senators and congressmen telling them about the tax exempt status. We're not just doing protests.

[john the baptist]

You may be able to take them down, even if just a little, through financial problems.

[Kaden]

We've already got word from people on the IN that the Corporation is shaking in its boots.

[Faolan]

The Co$ tells people they have up to 8 million members in their church. This is a lie. World Wide they # between 100k - 200k. Meaning there are more Jedis in the world then Scientologist. Now in one day nearly 9000 people world wide acting as a single group and protested on the same day. For a church whose real numbers is as low as theirs thats threatening. Furthermore even though newscasters such as FOX, CNN, MSNBC aren't giving this to much credit, keep this in mind. More people are talking about Scientolgoy then in any other time in it's history. Scientolgoy is getting a spot light shown on it. If enough people look and dig for information about what the church does, gets away with and it's history their (Co$) in trouble. Now in a few weeks another protest will happen and the likelihood that the number of protesters will be at least 10% - 40% greater! The more protests like these the more attention they get and the more likelihood that the big news medias will have to pay attention to them. Hell I'm going to protest. And not because Kaden is doing it too but because of the bull-shit they have there people go through especially their SeaOrg people.

[DarkHunter]

The end will come for them just like Waco or that south American Cult or whatever other one you like. Money grubbing, personality destroying cults all meet the same end. They take the wrong action in the name of their religion and then they get dismantled.

This is not the first time the world has seen a hateful, dangerous group like this. People seem to forget that back in the day, there were all kinds of mysterious deaths around the KKK that were just blown off and covered up. They controlled the state of Indiana for a short time until the leader there showed his true colors and killed a woman, but not quick enough before she named her murderer. How long before Scientology takes the same road? Before they turn out to be just humans instead of Operating Thetans?

[BlackRosePhantom]

The end will come for them just like Waco or that south American Cult or whatever other one you like. Money grubbing, personality destroying cults all meet the same end. They take the wrong action in the name of their religion and then they get dismantled.

This is not the first time the world has seen a hateful, dangerous group like this. People seem to forget that back in the day, there were all kinds of mysterious deaths around the KKK that were just blown off and covered up. They controlled the state of Indiana for a short time until the leader there showed his true colors and killed a woman, but not quick enough before she named her murderer. How long before Scientology takes the same road? Before they turn out to be just humans instead of Operating Thetans?

Well, if Anonymous keeps up the once-a-month protests and goes up by about 25% each protest, I say before the end of 2010. By that time, the awareness and world wide pressure on governments will cause the Co$ to be internationally be disbanded. Their still might be followers of Scientology, but they won't be like the ones of today that pay $630,000 to reach full clearness. Anonymous doesn't care about their beliefs, Anonymous only is concerned with how the Co$ operates as a business, as well as its attitude toward criticism. They act like a baby that keeps on crying until the parent that refused to let them be spoiled goes insane from the reached screeching.

[Kaden]

There's already a free version of Scientology. Those who practice it are called Freezoners and the Co$ hates them.

[DarkHunter]

There's already a free version of Scientology. Those who practice it are called Freezoners and the Co$ hates them.

What exactly do they subscribe to? I mean, knowing the truth about the teachings origins and L. Ron Hubbard himself, what exactly is left?

[Kaden]

I believe its mostly the auditing and the regression therapy.

[Gilenea]

I am going to be laughing if I'm up in heaven why your in HELL! :) (Laughing maniacly)

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Who the hell are you to tell ME where I'm going to go because of my own personal spirituality that makes ME feel good? I'm not Pagan for YOU. I'm Pagan for ME.

So all Scientologists who tell anyone they're going wherever it is non-Scientologists go for not believing in Scientology can suck it. So can those Christians, for that matter.

/rant

Gil

[Faolan]

Gil, seriously... can I give you a hug?

I'm a Catholic who doesn't believe that your going to go to Hell.

/me leaves open arms for Gil

[Kaden]

Gil, I respect your choice to be pagan and do not believe you are going to hell. Don't worry. :D I'm one of the non-scary Catholics.

[Faolan]

We didn't mean to steal your holidays. There just alot of fun. :D

[Gilenea]

Y'all DID mean to steal our holidays... In order to hide Pagan celebrations to make them seem not so obvious to the world. I won't bring up that almost every aspect of a Christian wedding draws from that unholy Pagan religion. /flex

I'm not bitter. I just don't like it when people tell me I'm going to hell.

Because I'm not. :p

Gil

[Faolan]

You do know wheter you want it or not my Catholic sized hug is coming to embrace you with luzs. :D

[Gilenea]

You do know wheter you want it or not my Catholic sized hug is coming to embrace you with luzs. :D

Do you have any of those little crackers that represent the body of Christ? I have a bowl and milk...

Christ Chex!

Gil

[Faolan]

Yeah, I know. My religion has allot of silly little rituals and symbols but thats half the fun!

And yes I had that urge to grab the punch bowl of crackers and run off with it. :p


Now back on topic... One of my other big beefs with Scientology is that fact they SELL IT by telling people that they can practice Scientology while believing in anything else they want to... Only to learn at OTIII that the "R6" incident is the whole XENU story and that all religions and philosophies outside of Scientology is fake.

[DarkHunter]

Y'all DID mean to steal our holidays... In order to hide Pagan celebrations to make them seem not so obvious to the world. I won't bring up that almost every aspect of a Christian wedding draws from that unholy Pagan religion. /flex

I'm not bitter. I just don't like it when people tell me I'm going to hell.

Because I'm not. :p

Gil

Lol I wouldn't get bothered about going to Hell! I'll be there, we can hang out!

Just how many levels do the Scientologists have anyway?

[Tux]

You’re all just lucky I’m not in change of where you go after you die or you’d all go to hell. Not because I hate you or anything, it’s because I’m too damned lazy to fill out the paperwork that says otherwise. :p

Anyway, back on topic. There’s not even a Co$ within 200 miles of me; so on the 15th I’ll be bored just like I was on the 10th.

[Faolan]

http://www.xenu.net/archive/ot/

Supposedly there is 9 levels in all. However it is also said to go up to 15 levels but we have to wait until the majority of the "ORGS" (the front groups for Scientolgoy) are much larger. This by the way doesn't include the amount of auditing you have to first go through to be "cleared" through dianetics.

[BlackRosePhantom]

Anyway, back on topic. There’s not even a Co$ within 200 miles of me; so on the 15th I’ll be bored just like I was on the 10th.

It's called a ROAD TRIP!!! *gets all hyper and crazy like your average teen when they here about a road trip (PAR-TAY! :D )*

[Sazabi]

Yeah, spending 400 miles worth of gas money to stand outside a church with a sign and yell internet catchphrases sounds like the bee's fucking knees. Where do I sign up.

[BlackRosePhantom]

Yeah, spending 400 miles worth of gas money to stand outside a church with a sign and yell internet catchphrases sounds like the bee's fucking knees. Where do I sign up.

Come on, there will be international Rickrolling, free food in a few places, and maybe Dancing Queen at some. :D

[Faolan]

Come on, there will be international Rickrolling, free food in a few places, and maybe Dancing Queen at some. :D

Actually we're going to have cake at our protest and it isn't a lie. :D

[Sazabi]

The only thing that could get me out of bed before noon on a Saturday short of the apocalypse is if I get to personally punch every protester in the face and scream RICKROLL ISNT FUNNY STOP LINKING ME TO IT.

Maybe if they have one in the afternoon I would go, but March 17yth I have a testing marathon (5 subjects all back to back...talk about the planets aligning wrong)and two 15 page research papers due that I havent started yet, so something tells me i'll be skipping the march 15th events.

[BlackRosePhantom]

Actually we're going to have cake at our protest and it isn't a lie. :D

That's what I mean by free food. I'm bringing vegan cookies to the one here. ^_^ Oh, and to anying planning to go: bring your V mask even if you're not allowed to wear it or are non-Anon. You can still wear it on the back of your head and it shows unity. You don't have to, but the more unity we can show while not having a leader, the more people will look at us as more that teenage cyber hackers (oh, the majority of protester are 18-25, then people 26-35 come in second, and we teens come in third on age poll results which can be viewed on enturbulation.org).

[J.L.R.]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Who the hell are you to tell ME where I'm going to go because of my own personal spirituality that makes ME feel good? I'm not Pagan for YOU. I'm Pagan for ME.

So all Scientologists who tell anyone they're going wherever it is non-Scientologists go for not believing in Scientology can suck it. So can those Christians, for that matter.

/rant

Gil

Gil you don't have to worry about Hell, because you are already HOT! :D I know... Lame... but hey...

[Sazabi]

That's what I mean by free food. I'm bringing vegan cookies to the one here.

Even scientologists let their followers have real food. You're going to scare hungry internet-neckbeard protesters into joining the church to get something good to eat.

[Kaden]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/andietitan/2296260777_ba0e753eb 2_o.jpg

[BlackRosePhantom]

Even scientologists let their followers have real food. You're going to scare hungry internet-neckbeard protesters into joining the church to get something good to eat.

No, these are great cookies (they're store bought)! I even dare say that they're almost as good as Oreos! And when I brought them to my local glcc, everyone enjoyed them, including non-vegetarians, which was practically everyone else besides me. :D

[Kaden]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uR3qFfxoIo

[UNODRAGONE]

No, these are great cookies (they're store bought)! I even dare say that they're almost as good as Oreos! And when I brought them to my local glcc, everyone enjoyed them, including non-vegetarians, which was practically everyone else besides me. :D


what exactly are in these cookies?

[Goth Girl]

Man, I use to talk about CO$ all the time and no one believed me. Now that people do, I don't even hear about a protest til it's over. :( Does anyone know a link to see where the next one will be. I've heard of nothing around here in MN. How do I find out? And where do you get those V masks? Even if I don't go to a protest I'd love to have one.

[Kaden]

enturbulation.org for protest locations.

amazon.com for v masks.

[BlackRosePhantom]

what exactly are in these cookies?

Sugar, Enriched Bleach Wheat Flower** (Bleached Wheat Flower, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin And Folic Acid), Palm Oil, Cocoa Processed With Alkaii, Cocoa, Contains Two Percent or Less of: Corn Flower, Cornstarch, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Salt, Sodium Bicarbinate, Soy Lecithin* (An Emulsifier), Ammonium Bicarbonate And Vinillin (An Artificial Flavor).

Alergen Information:
Contains: soy*, wheat**. May contain trace amounts of peanuts.

~~~
Oh, and they're Kosher Parve (so they're also safe for our Jewish friends ^_^)

P.S. Goth Girl, I don't mean to sound rude, but you could have just read through the thread, I've posted the url adress for enturbulation.org a few times now and have also stated that the nexr protest is on March 15, as well as the one after that is on April 12. The March protest would have been on the 13th, L Ron's birthday, but that was during the week while many people have work, so not only would less protesters show, but there would also be less people to make aware. Where as the 15th on the other hand, MANY people have off and will be out and about, it is St Patricks Day after all. In a lot of places at least, the 17th falls the this years holy week so there was a lot of contravesy over it; though the Irish are still going to hold it on the 17th 'cause they kniow they'll still be drinking then anyway, as well as it sends a clear message to the pope 'fuck you' and we all know UK has a grudge against Mr Ol' Pope (Please Remember the 5th of November, second verse, ya'll Brits should know it well).

[UNODRAGONE]

Sugar, Enriched Bleach Wheat Flower** (Bleached Wheat Flower, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin And Folic Acid), Palm Oil, Cocoa Processed With Alkaii, Cocoa, Contains Two Percent or Less of: Corn Flower, Cornstarch, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Salt, Sodium Bicarbinate, Soy Lecithin* (An Emulsifier), Ammonium Bicarbonate And Vinillin (An Artificial Flavor).
Alergen Information:
Contains: soy*, wheat**. May contain trace amounts of peanuts.

~~~
Oh, and they're Kosher Parve (so they're also safe for our Jewish friends ^_^)

P.S. Goth Girl, I don't mean to sound rude, but you could have just read through the thread, I've posted the url adress for enturbulation.org a few times now and have also stated that the nexr protest is on March 15, as well as the one after that is on April 12. The March protest would have been on the 13th, L Ron's birthday, but that was during the week while many people have work, so not only would less protesters show, but there would also be less people to make aware. Where as the 15th on the other hand, MANY people have off and will be out and about, it is St Patricks Day after all. In a lot of places at least, the 17th falls the this years holy week so there was a lot of contravesy over it; though the Irish are still going to hold it on the 17th 'cause they kniow they'll still be drinking then anyway, as well as it sends a clear message to the pope 'fuck you' and we all know UK has a grudge against Mr Ol' Pope (Please Remember the 5th of November, second verse, ya'll Brits should know it well).

I'm sure it tastes better then it sounds :shrug:

[Faolan]

Ok guys seriously. Enough about cookies. Enough about my friend the Pope. Lets get back to business. I found something interesting while surfing the net that I think you would all want to see.

In Catholicism we have confessions to relieve ourselves of our sins. One on one with our spiritual elder and a Hail Mary at the end.

Scientology center's hold their holiest of rituals that you have to pay for around a little device called an E-Meter. This piece of plastic and electronics cost upwards between $3000 - $4000! Yet a study was done back in the I believe late 60's and it was discovered by someone that it would take no more then $15 to make.

Here is a video that claims even worse things behind this expensive piece of crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9sDANzyOi4&NR=1

[UNODRAGONE]

Ok guys seriously. Enough about cookies. Enough about my friend the Pope. Lets get back to business. I found something interesting while surfing the net that I think you would all want to see.

In Catholicism we have confessions to relieve ourselves of our sins. One on one with our spiritual elder and a Hail Mary at the end.

Scientology center's hold their holiest of rituals that you have to pay for around a little device called an E-Meter. This piece of plastic and electronics cost upwards between $3000 - $4000! Yet a study was done back in the I believe late 60's and it was discovered by someone that it would take no more then $15 to make.

Here is a video that claims even worse things behind this expensive piece of crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9sDANzyOi4&NR=1

and I thought the church was asking for a lot with the whole ties thing :eek: fuck that I am sticking to confession can we say.....FREE!

[Kaden]

Hell yes we can!

[BlackRosePhantom]

Lets get back to business. I found something interesting while surfing the net that I think you would all want to see.

In Catholicism we have confessions to relieve ourselves of our sins. One on one with our spiritual elder and a Hail Mary at the end.

Scientology center's hold their holiest of rituals that you have to pay for around a little device called an E-Meter. This piece of plastic and electronics cost upwards between $3000 - $4000! Yet a study was done back in the I believe late 60's and it was discovered by someone that it would take no more then $15 to make.

Here is a video that claims even worse things behind this expensive piece of crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9sDANzyOi4&NR=1

Holy Shit! :eek: And I just thought auditing was to gain information to on there members! It's also a drug I'd! go for the oldest form of therapy still in practise today, confessing in a confessional, than ever taking one of those auditing sessions.

[Faolan]

I found more on the "Cost of Scientology" especially on it's auditing.

http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/tsos/sos-19.html

[Destiny]

You don't have to pay tithes to get forgiveness...and even confession in the Catholic Church wasn't always free (please correct me if I'm wrong about this) but the Church used to, and that was a lonngggg time ago, sell indulgences. Now though, confession doesn't even have to be in the church, just pray and truly mean what you say and God will forgive you.
:D Convenient and Free.:D

[Kaden]

Back then there was some corruption in the church. However, what mostly happened is that when they went to church, they are told it is correct to pay towards charities. Now a days the majority of the church's fund is from donations. Let us not forget the age old (we're Ye Olde kind of old) tradition called the Poor Box or as we now call it, the Charity Box. THAT money does not go to Church officials, it goes directly to needy sources such as the Salvation Army or Second Chance organizations.

Scientology doesn't do that, despite what their PR department perpetuates. They only do it when there are cameras around.

[Destiny]

Thanks for the correction...So, techinically, the Scientologist church is making people pay for salvation just like the Catholic Church did back way in the day, but they don't call them indulgences...?

[Faolan]

NO DESTINY

Seriously the Church did not force people to pay for their salvation. I take that as an offense.

Kaden was saying they asked them for to remember it is Christian to be charitable. All churches Catholic or Not today pass around collection plates. Churches uses this money to pay for daily expenses.

Don't confuse my church with that cult.

[Kaden]

Also note, you can ask any recognized faith what their beliefs are and they will tell you up front and honestly about it.

Ask a Scientologist and they'll direct you to buy books about Dianetics. You don't get to read the official scripture of Scientology until you are OTIII which takes years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to achieve. By that time, you are so freaking brainwashed that you accept it.

Most churches, the Catholic Church included, will be more than happy to provide you with a bible if you cannot afford one. Our local Catholic church actually stopped by after talking to us around Christmas and gave us our own bible with a very nice personal messege written in there for us and our own blessed Sacred Heart medalions.

Scientology won't do that. The only free thing they offer is the personality test... which is how they pull you in in the first place.

[Destiny]

I'm sorry...I really wasn't sure, my mistake. Thanks for correcting me.

So they didn't make them pay indulgences? Oops.

I'm sorry Faolan that you took offense, I meant nothing by it. I was just curious if it could lead in that direction, and as you and Kaden have pointed out it doesn't...thank you.

P.S. I didn't mean the Church now...I meant like in the time before the Catholic Church broke apart into other religions, such as Lutherianism. That's what I learned...maybe I should search for it...

I hate Scientology...but that's my opinion.

[Faolan]

Thanks for the correction...So, techinically, the Scientologist church is making people pay for salvation just like the Catholic Church did back way in the day, but they don't call them indulgences...?

Ok, now that I'm a bit more calm down let me explain better.

Yes there was at one time the choice of paying for ones indulgences. Meaning instead of going to confession a man could pay for his sin as a donation to the church as long as the sin is recorded. However it wasn't the only means of salvation, one could still be pious and go the the confession both and say their sins, say their Hail Mary and sometimes perform an act of penance. Usually that is to do work that benefits the community in some way.

Thank you btw for the apology. I didn't mean to blow up like I did.

[Destiny]

Thank you...you have enlightened me.:D

[J.L.R.]

Ok, now that I'm a bit more calm down let me explain better.

Yes there was at one time the choice of paying for ones indulgences. Meaning instead of going to confession a man could pay for his sin as a donation to the church as long as the sin is recorded. However it wasn't the only means of salvation, one could still be pious and go the the confession both and say their sins, say their Hail Mary and sometimes perform an act of penance. Usually that is to do work that benefits the community in some way.

Thank you btw for the apology. I didn't mean to blow up like I did.

You do realize that none of that is actually Biblical. This is of course, my big beef with the Roman Catholic Church, as much of what they teach isn't even in their Bible... The only difference between the Catholic Bible and the Protestant Bible (no matter the translation) is the addition of a few books, such as the Maccabees, but none of which condone the teachings that the Catholic Church professes as means of Salvation... The Eucarist (The belief that the wine and levined bread that Jesus served his disciples during the Last Supper actually turns to blood and real flesh in the mouths of those who participate) is not Biblical, the veneration of Saints, is not Biblical, the praying to the Virgin Mary is not Biblical, the confession before Priests, is not Biblical, and before anyone starts to say it is based on interpretation, this material isn't even IN the Bible, not even in the Catholic Bible... I know... I have one. If so... show me...

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

No human being can be a mediator to God, save Jesus Christ...

As touching Salvation...

Romans 10:9-10

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

As touching works...

Ephesians 2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 4

1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

19And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

20He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification

The Bible teaches us to study to show ourselves approved with understanding. This is not just given to those who "holy" like Priests of whom are nothing more than mere men, most of which don't even have a true relationship with God. Peity is not obtained by being "godly" or working towards salvation, it is obtained by God Himself, and Kaden, you don't have to go to a priest for that, you can talk to God openly...

I am not trying to turn this away from Scientology, because I have a few things to say about this crazy new fangled religion in a moment...

[Kaden]

Dude, this is not the Bash Catholicism thread. If you want to bash it go start your own damn thread. This thread is to talk about the Anonymous vs Scientology thread.

I'm not bashing your faith so get the fuck off mine.

We aren't bashing the right for people to believe in Scientology either, we are fighting the human rights violations the church had committed.

[Faolan]

For someone who is saying that they are not trying to derail this thread. You sure did an awful long post about bashing my faith.

Scientology is a pyramid scheme with a tax exemption in this country can we PLEASE get back on topic?

[BlackRosePhantom]

I am not trying to turn this away from Scientology, because I have a few things to say about this crazy new fangled religion in a moment...

Yes but in that long post, you've only brought up Scientology in this little sentence. I understand that you're justifying and correcting what you belief system is and what is biblical and not, but I think we've gotten too far into Biblical talk and should transgression back into Scientology and/or Anonymous now. On that note, I shall in fact refer your entire post. You could so freely share all those exact quote from the Bible (which shouldn't differ one bit as it is the writing of God and thus shouldn't be edited by man as all, different religions should only interpret it differently, not word it differently). Could anyone get me any quotes like that from any Scientology Scripture? I'm pretty sure if they did, Scientologists would soon be on this thread like deep sea dwellers to a whale carcase on the ocean floor and threaten and sue to get text from their "Copyrighted Holy Scripture" from being publicized. Knowledge is and should remain free. If they so desperately don't want their teaching to go out in the public eye, that means they got something to hide. And why would they want to hide anything? Maybe because what inside their scriptures would only hestine people to try out their religion knowing that it highly contradicted the beliefs they were taught as a child and grew up with as well as most other beliefs that they heard about. Also, they won't even state how L Ron came into knowedge of his Scriptures (I highly doubt that your science fiction writer could tap into and discover a foce that our friend Budda could not). Their methods are their climbing up a trechorous cliff, and their secretcy is their downfall from the top of that cliff.

Edit:
For someone who is saying that they are not trying to derail this thread. You sure did an awful long post about bashing my faith.

Scientology is a pyramid scheme with a tax exemption in this country can we PLEASE get back on topic?

I'm not sure how he 'bashed' your religion. He gave quotes from the Bible and stated the things like confessing weren't actually writen in it, but instead alternative means to salvation. If I got so upset like that every time I was critisized about being an Athiest and how people could clearly give edivence supporting their religious beliefs through organized text, then I'd be dead from repeated heart attacks. Although I will agree that his post was out of place.

[Sazabi]

Seriously, just go make a rage against the church post elsewhere. I promise you John the Baptist will show up and start nerdshoeing it up there. This thread is all about trolling Scientology, not other religions.

[BlackRosePhantom]

I got me a youtube vid that has to do with ya'lls scientology and anonymoose hooha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_78hgi3Hoo

It's a nice little rythm that tells us why we fight!

[Kaden]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5V7dnCQuI4

The Speech heard round the world. 3/15. Washington, DC.

[chriz]

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_ id=28104

[Kaden]

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_ id=28104

Thanks for posting that. The man doing the filming is our own Mark Bunker (aka Wise Beard Man). He has done so much to help the cause and is an Emmy winning documentary maker. www.xenutv.com

[LV426]

Scientology Nazis
http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_ id=28104

[BlackRosePhantom]

OK, well, the protest in Pitt went great! It was a blast! Anonymous really knows how to throw protest ;). Oh, and I found out something about Scientology there which I didn't know before: Scientology is apposed to alcohol. I'm dead serious. I managed to obtain a little pamphlet about drugs and in the pamphlet there was a list that Scientology said one shouldn't consume, and the first one listed was Alcohol. Immediately after I read that I made a sign that read: "Scientology is against ALCOHOL." For Operation Reconnect, I'm thinking about moderating it to say: "Come on and have a drink in the company of those who truely care... FreeZone.org"

The Co$ is trying to convince its members that we want to harm, distroy and slander their beliefs. We need to disprove that by majorly supporting the Free Zone. Any anonymous or ally of anonymous reading this should take these words into consideration.

This is a message that they are sending out to the general public: http://www.anonymous-exposed.org/ The message they are sending only to there members is probably worse. We need to show them that the Church of Scientology is merely scamming them and that they can still practice their beliefs outside the Church in the Free Zone.

[Kaden]

We had 2 freezoners give speeches at our protest and they even gave us Anon's free emeter readings. I didn't want one though.

Did you guys do the speech heard round the world at your protest? How many showed in Pitt? We had 300! Thats about 120 more than what we had last time.

[BlackRosePhantom]

There were about 50 people here, 35 at the peak. Lasted from 11 am through 4-4:30 pm (maybe later since on the blog we have a few that say they showed up right after we left and stayed there for a bit longer so there might have been 55 people). We didn't say the speech since the only video cameras were from independent journalists that wanted to remain neutral. (-_-)

[Kaden]

You guys didn't have any video cameras? Oh man, that sucks. DC is all over youtube with videos about it. We had 300 at our peak. Started at 11 ended at 2. Then a group of anons went to the National Portrait Gallery and had their picture taken in front of Stephen Colbert's picture. They want to send it to him to get on the air.

[BlackRosePhantom]

No. The freelance video journalists that came didn't want to seem too pro-anon so they couldn't do it. -_- Of course, that doesn't mean none of the protest wasn't caught on film. giv3m3truth filmed both the 10th and 15th protests and his vids are up on youtube.

[LV426]

There are a lot of religions against alcohol. That's hardly protest worthy.

[Kaden]

There are a lot of religions against alcohol. That's hardly protest worthy.

I gotta agree there. I never even heard the alcohol fact. In fact, I'd even gamble that one may actually be false. Even if it were true, it's their right to believe that alcohol is evil/bad and should not be consumed. That is not something to use as a focal point in the protest. It only hurts the cause and makes it look like we are against their belief system. While I may not be a big fan of what they belief as part of the religious core of Scientology, I am not against their rights to believe it. Only against the crimes committed by the Church, the unjust Tax-Exempt Status, the way they tear families apart and fair game critics, and the fact that they actually CHARGE members copious amounts of money for religious services.

[Vendetta]

I'm surprised this Anonymous thing has really carried on so long. 'Channers aren't know for their long attention spans.

[Kaden]

That's because it's expanded beyond the channers and /b/tards. I should know. I'm not channer and am still learning some of the channer and /b/tard lingo, so I can keep up with some of the discussion. We've expanded to parents, teachers, religious leaders (youtube search father anonymous), old hippie protesters (who have given us some great advice), the average joe. Anonymous has grown beyond its channer origins. That's what makes this movement so amazing.

[Vendetta]

That's because it's expanded beyond the channers and /b/tards. I should know. I'm not channer and am still learning some of the channer and /b/tard lingo, so I can keep up with some of the discussion. We've expanded to parents, teachers, religious leaders (youtube search father anonymous), old hippie protesters (who have given us some great advice), the average joe. Anonymous has grown beyond its channer origins. That's what makes this movement so amazing.
Except that not many of these "new" anti-CoS folks have even protested the Church before, so why now? Nah, it's a flash in the pan, and by mid-year will have faded from public conciousness. Anyway, it was only channers who have the amounts of time and prankster spirit to waste on something like this.

Don't get me wrong, I think people should be doing this and be made more of aware of the CoS' practices. I just don't see it as going much of anywhere.

[Kaden]

I've known about a lot of the dark secrets the CoS has hidden for years but because of the Fair Game policy, I was afraid to speak out. I think as long as there are people out there like Mark Bunker, Tory "Magoo" Christman, and Arnie Lerma (I met him this past Saturday at the protest and had a wonderful conversation with him) out there fighting then there will always be a fight. The internal structure of the CoS is starting to crack, David Miscavige's paranoia is leading him to take Stalinistic measures and increase Sec Checks and security sweeps of all OSA and Org Staff members. We will wear them down eventually. Someone will always be there to carry the banner. When the channers and /b/tards get bored with it, those who are serious about it, and not just in it for the "lulz" will step up and keep the fight strong.

The fight isn't over yet, and I for one, am in it for the long haul.

[BlackRosePhantom]

I gotta agree there. I never even heard the alcohol fact. In fact, I'd even gamble that one may actually be false. Even if it were true, it's their right to believe that alcohol is evil/bad and should not be consumed.

You can PM MissAnonymous about it on enturbulation.org, she saw the same pamphlet as I did. And I know it really isn't a big thing, but 1) it was St. Patty's Day, 2) Most religions aren't against alcohol consumption, at least in moderation, and 3) it is no worse than the "Scientology is a U.F.O. Cult" signs.

Also, V, I'm not a 'channer' in the least. I can only assume by 'channer', you mean the people that go on 4chan or whatever it's called. I was introduced to Anonymous and first learned about Scientology's crime via a friend, and I thank her for that because I wouldn't want not to know the crimes of Co$ and be oblivious to this entire thing.

[Faolan]

As long as the critics of the the Co$ live and as long as the protesters don't suffer campaign fatigued and especially if the number of people joining up on the protests keep up, there is no reason for them to quit as early as some of you think they might. I hope they can make it for the long haul.

[Sazabi]

Well, the reason i think this is largely pointless is

1) The methods. Somehow I doubt the "HAY GUYS LETS RICKROLL THEM HAHAHAH IT WILL BE FUNNY LIKE THE 600000 TIMES WE DID IT ON TEH INTERNET" approach is going to do jack shit.

2) Protests are pretty much worthless. Pretty much everyone ignores protests nowadays. I've been passing a 6 month protest of something or another near my campus for half a year, and I still don't know anything about the cause. the most i've interacted with these people is a "Get the fuck out of my way and get a job, you worthless hippy." If you guys start rickrolling, it loses all fucking credibility whatsoever.

3) People know how kooky Scientology is. it's no big secret that /b is blowing the lid off. If these protests do somehow manage to revoke their tax exempt status, i'll be pretty damn surprised, but also impressed.

[Kaden]

We are doing more than just protests. We are doing massive letter writing campaigns to Congressmen and Senators about the tax exempt status and how unjust it is. We are issueing press releases to various media outlets world wide (not just posting on youtube). We are posting concise and informative pamphlets in high traffic pedestrian areas. We are spreading this information like viral campaign, but instead of it being some kind of "lulzy video" we are infecting people with truth.

When the global speech was delivered in DC, pedestrians actually stopped to listen. We spoke to everyday people in length and they wanted to know more. Some even said they'd join us next month.

April's protest will not be "for the lulz", will not be about rickrolls (though, its bound to occure at some point), its about reuniting families that have been severed by the CoS. It's about showing the people inside, that their family still loves them. There is one woman, who showed up at one of the protests, whose son is only 7 years old. She is trying to get him out of the church. It's for people like her that we are fighting this.

As for the rickrolling and various other humourous things. Those are what seperate our protests from others. We get more people engaged because we bring them in with humour and they stay for the serious content. Its a method that is actually proving sucessful in DC. It's working in other areas too.

[Vendetta]

We are doing more than just protests. We are doing massive letter writing campaigns to Congressmen and Senators about the tax exempt status and how unjust it is.
Except a couple hundred people writing to their Congresspersons isn't really all that impressive.

We are issueing press releases to various media outlets world wide (not just posting on youtube). We are posting concise and informative pamphlets in high traffic pedestrian areas. We are spreading this information like viral campaign, but instead of it being some kind of "lulzy video" we are infecting people with truth.
Other than the first video and the first February 10th protest, I haven't seen much on the nets or even in mainstream media since then. You can issue all the press releases you like, it's not going to do much good if people ignore it.

April's protest will not be "for the lulz", will not be about rickrolls (though, its bound to occure at As for the rickrolling and various other humourous things. Those are what seperate our protests from others. We get more people engaged because we bring them in with humour and they stay for the serious content. Its a method that is actually proving sucessful in DC. It's working in other areas too.
I'm just curious how you're measuring success?

Look, I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I'm pretty sure the "movement" is being ignored by the populace by and large now, and isn't very effective, and all you're doing is wasting your time. You know, you'd be better served by resorting to using the CoS' tacticts against them than by any sign-waving, Guy Fawkes-mask wearing silliness.

[Sazabi]

Is there anything at all a congressman/senator can even do? Isn't tax exempt status decided on by a politically independent agency? And I completely agree about the public effect, I've even paid specific attention on the protest days to news media and haven't heard of anything anon has done. I guess some local news outlets might cover it, but i've yet to see a thing outside of youtube.

[UNODRAGONE]

There are a lot of religions against alcohol. That's hardly protest worthy.

Wait, doesn't Christianity use wine as a symbol of Jesus blood? Isn't that alcohol?

[LV426]

Wait, doesn't Christianity use wine as a symbol of Jesus blood? Isn't that alcohol?

And your point?

[Vendetta]

Wait, doesn't Christianity use wine as a symbol of Jesus blood? Isn't that alcohol?
Catholocism does, but not Christianity by-and-large.

Yeah, and I'm with LV, what does this relate to?

[UNODRAGONE]

And your point?

Catholocism does, but not Christianity by-and-large.

Yeah, and I'm with LV, what does this relate to?

religion stating the use of alcohol was wrong yet they use wine was my point way back when

There are a lot of religions against alcohol. That's hardly protest worthy.

[Vendetta]

religion stating the use of alcohol was wrong yet they use wine was my point way back when
But... but Christianity was never mentioned as one of those religions that's against the use of wine. We were talking about Scientology.

[UNODRAGONE]

I gotta agree there. I never even heard the alcohol fact. In fact, I'd even gamble that one may actually be false. Even if it were true, it's their right to believe that alcohol is evil/bad and should not be consumed. That is not something to use as a focal point in the protest. It only hurts the cause and makes it look like we are against their belief system. While I may not be a big fan of what they belief as part of the religious core of Scientology, I am not against their rights to believe it. Only against the crimes committed by the Church, the unjust Tax-Exempt Status, the way they tear families apart and fair game critics, and the fact that they actually CHARGE members copious amounts of money for religious services.

There are a lot of religions against alcohol. That's hardly protest worthy.

But... but Christianity was never mentioned as one of those religions that's against the use of wine. We were talking about Scientology.


the point was made that alcohol was considered evil by some religions on this thread and I just pointed out how hypercritical that is since they use it in their rituals, maybe not Scientology but it was made reference to in this thread which is why I posted the question here, and wine is considered alcohol

[LV426]

The anti-alcohol comment was made by BRP. He was saying how Scientology doesn't believe in consuming alcohol and how people were protesting that by having signs made up about having a drink with other religious groups or something to that effect. I simply stated that a lot of religions are against alcohol, not just Scientology and that is hardly a reason to protest Scientology.

[BlackRosePhantom]

The anti-alcohol comment was made by BRP. He was saying how Scientology doesn't believe in consuming alcohol and how people were protesting that by having signs made up about having a drink with other religious groups or something to that effect. I simply stated that a lot of religions are against alcohol, not just Scientology and that is hardly a reason to protest Scientology.

Um, so far, to my knowedge, I'm the only person that made asign stating how the Co$ is against alcohol. 1 sign, 1 person. Most people like alcohol. And as I said before, it wouldn't be the main focus at all. I did bring up the possibility of it there being an alcohol-related sign for every fifty people, which would make it 2% out of all the signs that would be view by the public. The mogority (like way over 50%) would be about signs to incorage people that want to leave the Co$ corage to do so, as well as introduce those whom like the belief system of the Co$ yet not want to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to be able to read it all to the Free Zone.

[Fenrar]

I'm not sure about the basis pof Scientology - Where it evolved from, why everybody seems to hate it, or why the reputably crazy Tom Cruise worships it.

Oh wait, because he's crazy.

Why bother going to protest about it? I've seen two guys in Trafalgar square saying that Paedophilia is a sexuality. It's a crazy religion. There's dozens of 'em.


On a more-topical note.
Catholicism and Scientology (from what I'm told) contradict themselves on several occasions. Get over it.

[UNODRAGONE]

I'm not sure about the basis pof Scientology - Where it evolved from, why everybody seems to hate it, or why the reputably crazy Tom Cruise worships it.

Oh wait, because he's crazy.

Why bother going to protest about it? I've seen two guys in Trafalgar square saying that Paedophilia is a sexuality. It's a crazy religion. There's dozens of 'em.


On a more-topical note.
Catholicism and Scientology (from what I'm told) contradict themselves on several occasions. Get over it.


wtf?

[Vendetta]

I'm not sure about the basis pof Scientology - Where it evolved from, why everybody seems to hate it, or why the reputably crazy Tom Cruise worships it.Have you even READ this thread?

Why bother going to protest about it? I've seen two guys in Trafalgar square saying that Paedophilia is a sexuality. It's a crazy religion. There's dozens of 'em.
If you had bothered to read this thread or done even a little searching on the CoS, you'd discover why people dislike it, and it has nothing to do with their wacky beliefs.


On a more-topical note.
Catholicism and Scientology (from what I'm told) contradict themselves on several occasions. Get over it.
From what you're TOLD? Do you normally blindly listen to what you're told without investigating it yourself?

[Sazabi]

/b has long had a history of being the assholes of the internet. The CoS thing is the first time they've really been in the limelight, but stunts like this is going to hurt their credibility.

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2008/03/epilepsy

[Faolan]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2646261381332343071

James DeWolf.

L. Ron Hubbard's Great grandson speaks out against Scientology. Give it a look.

He does say somethings I don't agree about, but what he has to say about his relative is interesting.

[LV426]

/b has long had a history of being the assholes of the internet. The CoS thing is the first time they've really been in the limelight, but stunts like this is going to hurt their credibility.

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2008/03/epilepsy

That article even states that it's circumstantial evidence so lets not start tossing stones until there is actual proof.

[Sazabi]

That article even states that it's circumstantial evidence so lets not start tossing stones until there is actual proof.

Regardless of they did it or not, /b has participated in numerous activities of this nature that *has* been proven in the past, this is just something thats going to bring those past activities to light to people who don't know better.

I just want to know how much their protest credibility is going to take a hit once people start seeing /b as the maladjusted social-reject assholes that they are.

I wouldn't doubt for a second that /b did this, they even have a section set aside for board invasions and activities like this. I've seen the seizure flash posted by them multiple times before. They do it for kicks, and quite frequently. Scientology is no different really, they do not give a rats ass about Scientology, it's just another excuse to act like E-assholes to them.

[Kaden]

Okay, let me state that the epilepsy issue is the /b/tards and the trolls at ebaums world and 7chan trying to discredit us because they think that us moralfags are lulzkillers. We are already working on a way to get these guys turned in for their heinous acts against these victims.

[Sazabi]

We are already working on a way to get these guys turned in for their heinous acts against these victims.

I doubt you'll have any luck. I used to be close friends with the administrator of 4chan back in the day (dans/spooky), and he used to pretty much brag nonstop how he used to skirt legal issues for 4chans members by hiding behind all sorts of loopholes.

I guess if the new administrator is a better person you might get something done, but spooky was pretty reprehensible, even going to lengths to defend people posting CHILD PORN until he got in some government shit.

Obviously, I think 4chan in general is the scum of the internet, I'm not trying to hide my bias here, but I doubt they've changed much since spooky ran the place, aside from deleting child porn now.

Spooky is also the guy who formed 7chan, under an alias, just so he could use it to take the heat off 4chan. He's a pretty slippery guy.

[BlackRosePhantom]

I doubt you'll have any luck. I used to be close friends with the administrator of 4chan back in the day (dans/spooky), and he used to pretty much brag nonstop how he used to skirt legal issues for 4chans members by hiding behind all sorts of loopholes.

I guess if the new administrator is a better person you might get something done, but spooky was pretty reprehensible, even going to lengths to defend people posting CHILD PORN until he got in some government shit.

Obviously, I think 4chan in general is the scum of the internet, I'm not trying to hide my bias here, but I doubt they've changed much since spooky ran the place, aside from deleting child porn now.

Spooky is also the guy who formed 7chan, under an alias, just so he could use it to take the heat off 4chan. He's a pretty slippery guy.

I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but I've never been on 4chan or 7chan or whatever-chan. A friend got me introduced to the Anonymous vs. Church of Scientology and the first place they showed me was enturbulation.org. You also need to note that Anonymous is not an organization and ANYONE can go under the affiliation of 'Anonymous'. Just because someone says that they are 'Anonymous' does not make them a part of the Co$-protesting 'Anonymous' group. There is nothing official about 'Anonymous', and that's what you seem to be forgetting. Just because someone goes under the same name, does not mean they're apart of the same group.

Also, technically, there are over 100 groups of 'Anonymous' that are all protesting against the tactics of the organization/cooperation known as the Church of Scientology. There is no global group. There are only numerous indivual groups of Anonymous that have come together with the same interest to stand up against what they believe to be wrong. There are also other groups not affiliated with any of the other Anonymous groups whom don't share any common interest, yet you seem to not only be lumping them with the ones against the Co$, but you seem to be thinking of 'Anonymous' as just one group. It isn't, so I ask you to please not lump them with Anonymous groups that are 'moralfags' and agaisnt the Co$.

[Sazabi]

Anonymous are a specific group in the context of the chans. Everything about this was organized from from 4/7chan. You're just riding on their coat-tails.

The entire movement began as "Project chanology" a chan based initiative spawned from Anon. What I don't think you get here is that "Anonymous" is a well known internet group, not anonymous in a literal sense. When articles talk about Anonymous, they usually mean the chans.

Also shii (the guy who basically spawned anonymous) is a fucking pedophile, as are alot of the rest of anonymous. It's really not something you want your name tied to.

The fact is that 4chan's "Anonymous" *is* a definable group and they are the ones who started this specific protest chain. you're just basically mooching off their movement. While "anonymous" is anonymous to some degree, the fact is it's always traceable to it's home forum, which almost always ends up being 4chan or 7chan.

It would be like if a huge pro rally group from a feminist forum called legion started a massive protest, and you bandwagoned on and began saying "I am legion, you are legion, we are all legion!". Doesn't change that the original group called legion is a specific entity from a specific forum, and you're just attaching yourself to their name.

Anonymous has been pulling shenanigans for years, and the context of it always refers to the chans specifically.

The chans do a lot of admin shifting and rerouting to smaller, specific forums to basically get around all the legal loopholes, but in the end anonymous tends to be the same basic group, forming invasions based out of 4/7/subforums.

It's a really big complex net of misinformation that i'm having trouble putting into words.

[BlackRosePhantom]

First things first, Anonymous has no 'home' forum. I understand that the other 100-some groups of anonymous came after that 4chan one, but that still doesn't mean the they're affiliated with them (at least a lot of them, I know that the Anonymous group in Pittsurgh is just about strictly moralfags, and zero 4/7/whatever-channers. Sure we weren't grumpy-old-strict-librairian serious/strict, but we all still protest foremost and mainly because we knew the evils of the Co$ and want to inform the rest of the public.

In other news, heres another video: http://www.vimeo.com/824772

(when it gets to the pics of the different anon groups around the world, it only shows 86 cities, I counted, but trust me, their are plenty more)

[Sazabi]

First things first, Anonymous has no 'home' forum.

Everything about the group referred to as "Anonymous" was coined in reference to Shii's essay about the chans.

It's a very specific doctrine involving not ratting each other out for posting their pictures of naked 3 year olds, the logic being that "If one anonymous is guilty, the rest are too."

It's self serving bullshit created by Shii in pure reference to 2/4/7 chan. Can you find me a link about Anonymous as a group that doesn't involve the chans? I don't think you can.

"Anonymous" as a group did not exist before the chans.

[Vendetta]

Oh man, this is fantastic.

From the folks who brought you Anonymous vs. the Church of Scientology, their NEW cause:
Tormenting Epileptics! (http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2008/03/epilepsy)

(Yes, Wired's use of 'Hackers' in the headline is pretty stupid, especially considering their pedigree, but still, good story on Anonymous, and how truly noble they are.)

[jordanhitler]

This is a disturbing video I stumbled across while on the tubes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNO6G4ApJQY

I've been studying Anonymous for a while, so I personally don't believe a word of what fox says. However, it is disturbing to me that such an backwards and perverted view of Anonymous could be televised on national news. It could be fox looking for another retarded version of an exciting story, which is what I'm hoping, or, I don't see why It couldn't be members of scientology abusing there wealth and influence.

[Kaden]

Oh man, this is fantastic.

From the folks who brought you Anonymous vs. the Church of Scientology, their NEW cause:
Tormenting Epileptics! (http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2008/03/epilepsy)

(Yes, Wired's use of 'Hackers' in the headline is pretty stupid, especially considering their pedigree, but still, good story on Anonymous, and how truly noble they are.)

Actually, most of the members of anonymous are really pissed off about this. Thats basically the 7chan fuckers going off and trying to make us moralfags look bad because they think we're lulzkillers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ6_RCmgFGU&feature=related

[Vendetta]

Actually, most of the members of anonymous are really pissed off about this. Thats basically the 7chan fuckers going off and trying to make us moralfags look bad because they think we're lulzkillers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ6_RCmgFGU&feature=related
I'm just curious, since a lot of these people ARE anonymous, how does anyone know who did what? Also, you obviously don't peruse /b/ very often.

[Kaden]

This is what I am getting from some of the people who monitor 7chan. My sources are very reliable.

[Vendetta]

This is what I am getting from some of the people who monitor 7chan. My sources are very reliable.
How does monitoring 7chan prove/disprove involvement? Unless your sources are "admins" I doubt they could finger anyone. While 7ch might be a moral wasteland, none of the chans or anonymous posters therein are any/much better.

[MorganaFang]

This is a disturbing video I stumbled across while on the tubes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNO6G4ApJQY

I've been studying Anonymous for a while, so I personally don't believe a word of what fox says. However, it is disturbing to me that such an backwards and perverted view of Anonymous could be televised on national news. It could be fox looking for another retarded version of an exciting story, which is what I'm hoping, or, I don't see why It couldn't be members of scientology abusing there wealth and influence.

Um you do know fox will make anybody, even grandmothers protesting the war, into terrorists.

[jordanhitler]

Um you do know fox will make anybody, even grandmothers protesting the war, into terrorists.

Yes, What disturbs be however, is that some people believe them.

[MorganaFang]

Yes, What disturbs be however, is that some people believe them.

Welcome to the human race, what cave have you been living in all your life?

[ThrasherCub]

]Founder L. Ron Hubbard used to study under Crowley and performed ritualistic abortions in his magic (referenced from www.ronthenut.org) .
FYI, those are references to tantric sex in which the woman did not conceive. The energy of the potential life is what was actually used in the magick.

Crowley actually wasn't a bad guy, just creepy and extremely misunderstood, generally due to his interesting way of putting things.

[BlackRosePhantom]

Jason Beghe Leaves the Church of Scientology and calls it a "ripoff" (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351287,00.htm l)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07m-IvvpK2E

[Vendetta]

Who's going to the May 10th Fair Game rally/protest?

I just found out there are some SD anonymii, so I may go down there and record the rally, if there are people.

[MorganaFang]

Nice a rally on may tenth, that is going to make graduation really special as the COS is a few blocks from campus.

[ThrasherCub]

I'm way to freaking tired to figure out if there's a protest in my area. I know there's a CO$ nearby because I walked past it in SF and they were offering free personality tests and stress tests and whatnot. I REALLY wanted to go take them for some nice S&G except I was way to freaking scared of being brainwashed.

[Sazabi]

the 9th is the last day of classes for me, I may get in on it this time.

[Kaden]

The May 10th Ralley is the day after my birthday. I'm going to the DC one. I'm actually singing some songs at this one (I sang in March, too). We're competeing with the DC101 Chili Cook-off this time so we're bringing out own chili... and cake.

To find out if there is a protest being held in your area, the best place to check is the forums at www.enturbulation.or g.

[Vendetta]

The May 10th Ralley is the day after my birthday. I'm going to the DC one. I'm actually singing some songs at this one (I sang in March, too). We're competeing with the DC101 Chili Cook-off this time so we're bringing out own chili... and cake.
Don't you know that CAKE is a euphemism for pedophilia?!?

[Kaden]

Well we're serving the cake because it tastes good. And it was at all the other protests. :D

[Vendetta]

Just a joke. Some CoS folk were saying that's what it meant when Channers/SPs said something about "cake".

[Kaden]

lol fair enough. I always assumed the joke came from Portals because we all know the cake is a lie.

[Vendetta]

lol fair enough. I always assumed the joke came from Portals because we all know the cake is a lie.
I think that IS where the cake meme came from, but you know, leave it to CoS nutjobs to turn anything into an attack.

[Kaden]

Its what they do best. I asked a Scilon about how his music was going (he is an amazing musician) and he told the cops I was harrassing him. I was only being friendly.

Then again he did get up in my face at the March protest and took my picture without asking so he harrassed me first. :P

This time around though is going to be the best one yet.

[ThrasherCub]

Just a joke. Some CoS folk were saying that's what it meant when Channers/SPs said something about "cake".

That would explain why the url for the 7chan board pertaining to manga depicting child porn is 7chan.org/cake/

[Kaden]

Well since I'm not a channer (but I can fake it sometimes) I wasn't aware of that. We had companion cube cookies though, so I'm sticking with the Portals theory.

[ThrasherCub]

Well since I'm not a channer (but I can fake it sometimes)

They'll catch you. It's hard to fake channery since it's possible to have an entire chan-conversation using nothing but chan-terms, memes, and references to epic threads - like the time EFG shot Pedobear in a completely different thread. :)

[Vendetta]

They'll catch you. It's hard to fake channery since it's possible to have an entire chan-conversation using nothing but chan-terms, memes, and references to epic threads - like the time EFG shot Pedobear in a completely different thread. :)
Solution, just SAGE everything.

Or failing that...

DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU
DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU
DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU
DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU
DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU
DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU
DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU
DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU
DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU
DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU


etc.

[Sazabi]

They'll catch you. It's hard to fake channery since it's possible to have an entire chan-conversation using nothing but chan-terms, memes, and references to epic threads

Except all those stupid ass memes are 3 years old so all you have to do is say something retarded every now and then like SHOOP DA WOOP FIRIN MAH LASER and they'll all crackbup like the socially inept losers they are and accept you as one of them.

[Vendetta]

Except all those stupid ass memes are 3 years old so all you have to do is say something retarded every now and then like SHOOP DA WOOP FIRIN MAH LASER and they'll all crackbup like the socially inept losers they are and accept you as one of them.
Or accuse you of being new/fagsauce and NOT one of them, yet secretly wish you were their friend.

[ThrasherCub]

Sazabi... Vendetta,

I love you guys.

[Kaden]

Well, todays the day for Battletoad Earth: Operation FailGameStop! I've got my gear and sign ready and I'm prepared for a yucky rainy day in DC. I'm stoked.

[Tux]

Ok, if there’s any way that someone can somehow secure all of their OT manuals, or whatever they’re calling their religious documents; I’ll be sure to give them a thorough MSTing. Just a though.

[MorganaFang]

Haha, most of the anons in MN did not show up, too rainy a probably a good deal of them have been participating in the beer crawls all over town.

[BlackRosePhantom]

We had less than half of our usual amount yesterday and we figured that it was for three reasons: the forcasters were retarded and said it would rain when it was bright and sunny ALL day, collaage & school finals, and because today is mother's day and a few of the anons lived a few hours drive away.

P.S. here's a link to another anonymous site I found: http://scientologyexposed.5 0megs.com/

[Kaden]

Ok, if there’s any way that someone can somehow secure all of their OT manuals, or whatever they’re calling their religious documents; I’ll be sure to give them a thorough MSTing. Just a though.

Wikileaks should have them.


Also, while our numbers were also down (Finals and DC101s Chili Cook-Off) this was our best raid yet. Also our cake anon made me a special cake for my birthday. It was a total blast.

[Skittles-Tony]

When is the next protest?

[Kaden]

June 14th: Operation: Sea Arggh!

Time to dust off the pirate gear and invade your local CoS.

[Skittles-Tony]

Sounds good to me, I will attempt to be at a protest :) If I can find any near me.

Edit: The official site for the next protest is http://www.seaarrrgh.com/ but we need to wait for them to get it up...

Edit 2: Looks like the site is up :)

[Buddha Monkey]

As a point, many honest buisness people here in Clearwater (where the CoS Headquarters is) are attempting to get the city council involved. It seems they have lost long term buisness due to the protests (read this in the St Petersburg Times). So, instead of impacting the CoS, this group is having a negative impact on normal people.

Live and let live. The CoS isn't evil, no matter that I don't agree with their ideals.

[Kaden]

You live in Clearwater? Doesn't seeing the drones in their uniforms disturb you any?

As for the businesses thing, many of the said businesses are Scilon owned. You haven't read the whole story. The petition that they sent to the city council had businesses repeated on there several times and every single name on there was a Scientologist. Scientology is desperate and doing what ever it takes to make Anonymous look bad.

The CoS is evil. They force abortions of female members of SeaOrg, they relentlessly try to silence critics, they have forced child labor on children as young as 4 to 6, and they committed the largest known infiltration of the US Government. Oh yes, totally not evil.

And if you don't believe me, why not ask Jenna Miscavige Hill... the niece of the current leader of Scientology. She'd love to tell you how "not" evil Scientology really is.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FJu-j4aa90Q
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PeKzuyyIfG0

[Buddha Monkey]

I know many will not like what I'm about to say.

Christians, in their history, have forced abortions, killed MILLIONS of people, silenced critics, and ran/run Europe.

Until you can bring forth PROOF of what you are saying, not the words of some down and out person who may have been kicked out of the CoS, then I will not buy it.

And, no, I have NEVER seen someone that I can honestly say is a CoS member. I have seen Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, and almost every other faith, and have had the bible thrown at me on more then one occasion, told I'm going to hell, and that I am evil for walking my wife around on a collar and lead, but the ONE person I have met that was a CoS member complemented me on my shirt (at a Tampa mall, where they have a booth).

All I'm hearing from anyone that supports these protests is the same thing most of you bitch and whine about with the Government. A bunch of "He said this, so it's true" bullshit.

And, no, I'm not a CoS member (as I know at least one of you will bring that up), I can't afford to be one (something about no income). I took their stupid personality profile, gave a fake address (it may have been Necros, not sure), and laughed about it the whole time. I'm Gorean (and when one of you looks that up, you'll be protesting me), that is it. If people want to join a group that is "forcing" them to have abortions, then it's their own stupidity. Obviously, their to stupid to breed.

[Kaden]

How about a whole bunch of down and out persons. www.exscientologykid s.com

Seriously Buddah, you need to research a little more before just making assumptions.

[Buddha Monkey]

Lets break down what I said.

You linked to a bunch of ex-members, which to me is not proof of anything. Same as that last list. Why the fuck am I going to believe someone that "left the fold" about anything? I don't know their agenda (and, yes, they have one. It may be to get the truth out there, or something else).

I want proof. I believe in innocent untill proven guilty. And, there is still more then reasonable doubt in my mind about CoS. Why? Because all I've seen are actors, and ex-members. I have had NO experence with members besides the one time I mentioned.

Also, prove to me that the people saying they are losing customers are members of the church. Let me tell you something. I have seen protests make companies have issues. Why? Who the fuck wants to go shopping when there's a protest, because, not rightly, people think it's going to get violent. That's why I don't like them, nevermind they take YEARS to get anything done (see the Civil Rights protests, and the Feminist Protests, and the Democracy Protests in Chin....wait, nevermind).

Oh, and as I haven't seen it in this thread, and I have to make sure to follow a law (and if you don't know the law, look it up), Hitler and Nazis.

[RQ]

Can't we just agree that all religions are equally fabricated and silly?

What, you have to argue about whose group of friends, worshipping whose imaginary friend, is better?

[ThrasherCub]

Can't we just agree that all religions are equally fabricated and silly?

What, you have to argue about whose group of friends, worshipping whose imaginary friend, is better?

I want you to know that I am religious and have been baptised and confirmed in the EGC, and holy hell do I love and respect your POV on religion and your posts on the aforementioned topic.

I donate this lovely picture to your cause;

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/ThrasherCub/Bashing/1194061902282.jpg

[Buddha Monkey]

Just as an aside. Had to take a friends girlfriend to Clearwater Police HQ (domestic violence, her father was beating the crap out of her), and low and behold, there was not only the police HQ, but the fire department, and down the street, the Church. Me and eshe found it quite funny, while my friend brought up the amount of money they are most likely giving the police and fire departments (both stations looked really, REALLY, good).