Protest the delisting of the Wolf

[CanineOccidental]

http://action.defenders.org/site/PageServer?pagename= savewolves_takeactio n

There are 6 petitions there: one National, two for Yellowstone wolves, two against aerial hunting, and one for Southwest wolves.

Please sign as many as you agree with and please pass the link on to your friends.

[Buddha Monkey]

Ok, I'm of two minds on this.

On the one hand, knowing that the wolf is now of the list, means that there are enough of them in the wild. And may also mean that there are two many of them in Yellowstone (I know know how much territory each pack has, but I've read some reports of wolf packs holding up to 50 miles in territory).

On the other hand, it does mean that people that didn't shoot first because they were on the list will now shoot.

[john the baptist]

What the fuck!!!! They're getting rid of my wolvies!!!
DAMN THEM!!!!

[Buddha Monkey]

What the fuck!!!! They're getting rid of my wolvies!!!
DAMN THEM!!!!

First, their not YOUR wolves. Second, their not "getting rid of them". Their taking them off the Endangered list, which does not mean that they are doing the old sanctioned wolf hunts.

[john the baptist]

I know, that was an exageration.
Becuase they're off the list means people probably will hunt them though, which would put them back on the list.

[BoxedCat]

I know, that was an exaggeration.
Becuase they're off the list means people probably will hunt them though, which would put them back on the list.

Yes, because the first thing I want in my mouth in the morning is tasty wolf bacon.

[john the baptist]

No but people hunt wat they fear.

[BoxedCat]

No but people hunt wat they fear.

This isn't philosophy 101, but I'm pretty sure that the reason people go hunting is because they're going to use the particular thing they're hunting for resources, be it food or clothing.

I'm not terribly fond of of sharks, but that doesn't mean I'm going to jump into the water with a hunk of meat, hoping I can both fend them off and kill them just because they're soulless eating machines that might kill me in my day of pleasure at the beach.

[john the baptist]

Rguing with you is pointless and in no way helping me gain knowledge so, good-day and please, don't talk to me again.

[BoxedCat]

Rguing with you is pointless and in no way helping me gain knowledge so, good-day and please, don't talk to me again.

I'm not Rguing with you, I'm arguing a particular position, which would be either people hunt wat they fear, or people hunt what they require as resources. I leave it up to you to defend your position with references stating as much. If not, I'll accept your lack of conversation as an admission of ignorance.

Spelling helps too, by the way.

[john the baptist]

What I've been saying is that people hunt what they fear. You wouldn't go out and kill a shark, but other people have and still do. Wolves, if taken off the list, will be hunted becuase people fear them, see them as pests, and see them as a danger to their livestock. This is the reason they where put on the list in the first place.

What I'm saying is, if you take them off the endangered list, they'll be hunted like they were before they were put on the list.

[BoxedCat]

What I've been saying is that people hunt what they fear. You wouldn't go out and kill a shark, but other people have and still do. Wolves, if taken off the list, will be hunted becuase people fear them, see them as pests, and see them as a danger to their livestock. This is the reason they where put on the list in the first place.

What I'm saying is, if you take them off the endangered list, they'll be hunted like they were before they were put on the list.

If they're off an endangered list, doesn't that mean they've got a sufficient population to survive?

It's not like most people get up in the morning and say "Hey! I'm gonna kill me a wolf!" just for shits and giggles.

[john the baptist]

To survive for now. What happens when people start to hunt them again though? When they shoot them without penalty of law? They go right back onto the list.

[BoxedCat]

To survive for now. What happens when people start to hunt them again though? When they shoot them without penalty of law? They go right back onto the list.

I understand your passion, I really do. What about whales, where the Japanese send out whaling boats for species that shouldn't be hunted yet are under international law loopholes because it's for tribal solidarity?

Or seals, that get their brains bashed in because it's the quickest way to kill them humanely?

It's well and good to devote yourself to a cause, but if you're going to crusade for one animal, shouldn't you shoot for all of them?

Again, widen your field of knowledge, it might do you good in the long run.

I think the platypus is the most kickass animal in the world. It looks funny, sounds funny, and is basically the most absurd animal on the face of the earth. Would you campaign so strongly for it?

[john the baptist]

I do, I don't beleive we, as humans, have a right to destroy these animals, unless we need to.

I don't think that whales should be caught, I think that the sport of killing the baby seals is horrible, but this thread is about wolves. That is why I'm stressing about the wolves now. Later, in other places, I'll worry about the rest.

[BoxedCat]

I do, I don't beleive we, as humans, have a right to destroy these animals, unless we need to.

I don't think that whales should be caught, I think that the sport of killing the baby seals is horrible, but this thread is about wolves. That is why I'm stressing about the wolves now. Later, in other places, I'll worry about the rest.

What about the platypi?

The wolves are free and clear according to the law, so why not let them be?

[MorganaFang]

I like how this thread pops up every year, or couple of months depending upon how many bleeding hearts we have. I say again as I have said before, this is probably of the least proactive ways of preserving wolf species. You really care, get off the computer and go do something, quickly, I think I hear that farmer Moe cocking his gun to shoot the fiend that has been killing his livestock.

[john the baptist]

If they were in danger, or endangered, yes I would campaign for them. WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO KILL OFF THESE ANIMALS. That means any of them. No one specific species should be kept alive while the others go extinct, and no species should die off while others are protected, and I'm including mankind into this.
We should not kill off everything, we should protect it. If we don't eventually we'll die from the lack of resources, and it'll be our own fault.

[BoxedCat]

I like how this thread pops up every year, or couple of months depending upon how many bleeding hearts we have. I say again as I have said before, this is probably of the least proactive ways of preserving wolf species. You really care, get off the computer and go do something, quickly, I think I hear that farmer Moe cocking his gun to shoot the fiend that has been killing his livestock.

Moe just called....
http://www.pc.gc.ca/canada/pn-tfn/images/cmgt4.jpg

[BoxedCat]

If they were in danger, or endangered, yes I would campaign for them. WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO KILL OFF THESE ANIMALS. That means any of them. No one specific species should be kept alive while the others go extinct, and no species should die off while others are protected, and I'm including mankind into this.
We should not kill off everything, we should protect it. If we don't eventually we'll die from the lack of resources, and it'll be our own fault.

I see you riding in a boat in a few years

[john the baptist]

Oh, what boat?

[BoxedCat]

Oh, what boat?

THE boat, you know the one, if you've been watching the news

[john the baptist]

I don't watch much news, I get it from the internet if I want to here about it.

[BoxedCat]

I don't watch much news, I get it from the internet if I want to here about it.

Which is the reason you're obviously so well-versed in language and the current human condition.

[john the baptist]

Would you just tell me what boat?

[BoxedCat]

Would you just tell me what boat?

The one that's on the ocean. You know, silly.

[john the baptist]

What is significant about this boat on the ocean?

[BoxedCat]

What is significant about this boat on the ocean?

Well, it floats, which makes it a good boat. It also does things for marine animals you so highly speak of in your posts regarding earthbound mammals. Plus, it's a boat...how can that not be intriguing to you?

[Sazabi]

If they were in danger, or endangered, yes I would campaign for them. WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO KILL OFF THESE ANIMALS. That means any of them. No one specific species should be kept alive while the others go extinct, and no species should die off while others are protected, and I'm including mankind into this.
We should not kill off everything, we should protect it. If we don't eventually we'll die from the lack of resources, and it'll be our own fault.

waaaaaaah, the flower children just called, they want their stupid, boring 60's environmentalism shit back. Go eat a hamburger, throw your american flag like a javelin into the heart of a wolf, take its skull as a trophy, and ride off into the sunset in your SUV while banging a supermodel like a real American.

I don't care if you're from Italy or Europe or one of those other countries in the Notamericanistan islands, import a flag-javelin and spread some FREEDOM anyway.

One time in Reno, I shot a wolf just to watch it die.

I'm in the field hunting the wolven menace as we speak, and you hippies are back in your comfy houses E-spitting on me, so to speak. I bet this is how the brave warriors in Vietnam fighting Hitler felt when they got home.

[Galliard]

I bet this is how the brave warriors in Vietnam fighting Hitler felt when they got home.

Really hoping this is your special brand of sarcasm here, because Vietnam wasn't about Hitler, that was WWII! Vietnam, as far as I can recall (I don't do a lot of research) was about the splitting of Korea into North and South because some wanted to be communists and some didn't. Johnthebaptist, you fell right into that one.

[john the baptist]

I did, but my point was Hitler diserved to die and wolves don't.

[Galliard]

I understand and agree with that but they were taken off the list because of the fact that there are now large, stable, healthy populations. You should be rejoicing in that fact.

What should be looked at is regulatory legislation. They have it with deer where I am. Each person is allowed one "buck" kill (I think), yada-yada-yada. I know it isn't what I want, but the fact of the matter remains that there will always be those people who hunt, either for sport or for perceived necessity, and it's better to actively regulate something that is off a list than to just let the hunters run rampant.

Furthermore, putting them on the list didn't stop people in Alaska from hunting them from helicopters. It didn't stop farmers and poison traps. It just slowed it down a bit.

Also, people's awareness about what beautiful animals they are has grown dramatically in the past few decades. I don't believe that there will be as many people wanting to hunt these creatures as in the past.
(Granted, that's probably wishful thinking, but there you go...)

[john the baptist]

I agree about the limiting part. We need a regulations petition.

[Buddha Monkey]

I agree about the limiting part. We need a regulations petition.

I'll have to dig the article up again where I first heard about this months ago, but if I remember right, they are talking about regulations. Something about hunting times, amount of kills, etc...same as almost every other hunting regulation out there.

Found it.

http://www.jhguide.com/article.php?art_id=2 575 this is Wyoming.

http://fwp.mt.gov/wildthings/wolf/wolfseason.html PDFs on this site on Montana Quotas

http://wildlife.alaska.gov/regulations/pdfs/predator.pdf and Alaska

[Kaden]

Really hoping this is your special brand of sarcasm here, because Vietnam wasn't about Hitler, that was WWII! Vietnam, as far as I can recall (I don't do a lot of research) was about the splitting of Korea into North and South because some wanted to be communists and some didn't. Johnthebaptist, you fell right into that one.

Uhm... that would be the KOREAN WAR of the early 1950s.

The Vietnam war was in VIETNAM!

From Wikipedia:
The Vietnam War, also known as the Second Indochina War, and in Vietnam as the American War, occurred from 1959 to April 30, 1975. The term Vietnam Conflict is often used to refer to events which took place between 1959 and April 30, 1975. The war was fought between the communist Democratic Republic of Vietnam and its communist allies and the US supported Republic of Vietnam. It concluded with the defeat and dissolution of South Vietnam. For the United States, the war ended with the withdrawal of American troops and failure of its foreign policy in Vietnam.[5][6]

Over 1.4 million military personnel were killed in the war (only 6% were members of the United States armed forces), while estimates of civilian fatalities range up to 2 million. On April 30, 1975, the capital of South Vietnam, Saigon fell to the communist forces of North Vietnam, effectively ending the Vietnam War.

Stay awake in class next time.

[UNODRAGONE]

waaaaaaah, the flower children just called, they want their stupid, boring 60's environmentalism shit back. Go eat a hamburger, throw your american flag like a javelin into the heart of a wolf, take its skull as a trophy, and ride off into the sunset in your SUV while banging a supermodel like a real American.

I don't care if you're from Italy or Europe or one of those other countries in the Notamericanistan islands, import a flag-javelin and spread some FREEDOM anyway.

One time in Reno, I shot a wolf just to watch it die.

I'm in the field hunting the wolven menace as we speak, and you hippies are back in your comfy houses E-spitting on me, so to speak. I bet this is how the brave warriors in Vietnam fighting Hitler felt when they got home.

that is the most ignorant fucking thing I have ever heard! What the fuck does our military men/women have to do with the hunting of wolves?

[Vendetta]

that is the most ignorant fucking thing I have ever heard! What the fuck does our military men/women have to do with the hunting of wolves?
Note to forums: In additon to rhetorical questions UNO also does not possess the ability to detect sarcasm.

[UNODRAGONE]

Note to forums: In additon to rhetorical questions UNO also does not possess the ability to detect sarcasm.


:rolleyes: what a stupid comment, obviously if I knew it was sarcastic I wouldn't have made a remark, being that I did means it wasn't clear to me

[jordanhitler]

http://action.defenders.org/site/PageServer?pagename= savewolves_takeactio n

There are 6 petitions there: one National, two for Yellowstone wolves, two against aerial hunting, and one for Southwest wolves.

Please sign as many as you agree with and please pass the link on to your friends.

Well, I think aerial hunting is just stupid unless theres an overpopulation of an animal. But, I think delisting wolves in certain areas could be a good thing. However, I'm pretty sure there aren't a whole lot of wolves anywhere in the south, due to the near complete excintion of the red wolf in southern US.

But yeah, being that people aren't stupid about it (which they probably will be). I delisting wolves would be all right. Hell, god knows theres too many damn deer our there. Of course then all the hunters are going to complain that there aren't enough deer cause all the wolves are killing them, no stupid, its just that the wolves are leveling the population. I forgot what its called, but its the predator prey relationship. Theres a shit ton of deer so all the wolves get to eat them so the wolf pop goes way up and the deer pop goes way down, but then since theres not enough deer, a shit ton of wolves die, and since there arent enough wolves eating deer, the deer pop goes way up again, and then the cycle restarts itself. So yeah, given that things balance out between hunter, prey, and human, I think delisting would be all right.

[BoxedCat]

You know who else liked to have populations listed?

http://www.wacoisd.org/publications/whats_new/tattoo.jpg

[Vendetta]

You know who else liked to have populations listed?

http://www.wacoisd.org/publications/whats_new/tattoo.jpg
Erik Lehnsherr?

[Galliard]

Uhm... that would be the KOREAN WAR of the early 1950s.

The Vietnam war was in VIETNAM!

From Wikipedia:


Stay awake in class next time.


Ach, it wasn't my best subject, to be sure.:D I figured it was sarcasm.

You know who else liked to have populations listed?

http://www.wacoisd.org/publications/whats_new/tattoo.jpg

Yeah... niiiiice, boxedcat, niiiiiiiiice. :/ The difference between the two is that numbering WOLVES help figure out the population and what we can do to HELP them. It's not the same thing as what you seem to be insinuating.

[jordanhitler]

You know who else liked to have populations listed?

http://www.wacoisd.org/publications/whats_new/tattoo.jpg

You do realize of course that wolves aren't humans right?

[Vendetta]

You guys DO realize it was humour, right? :rolleyes:

[BoxedCat]

You do realize of course that wolves aren't humans right?

And you do realize of course that humans aren't wolves, right?

[john the baptist]

What the fuck?! Get back to the subject!

[punxnotdead]

I don't thin It's such a bad thing that the wolf was delisted. They wouldn't have delisted it if they didn't think their population was sufficent.

[BoxedCat]

What the fuck?! Get back to the subject!

What subject, that there is a sufficient population in order to remove them from the Endangered Species list? There's a reason they have specific guidelines for an animal being an endangered species. You should be happy, it means that the population is stabilizing.

I don't think it's such a bad thing that the wolf was delisted. They wouldn't have delisted it if they didn't think their population was sufficent.

Quoted for truth.

I think they should only be hunted if they are fairly over the one thing to where nature can't support them, but that will eventually be the way for all animals since eventually there won't be any left.

Quoted for...what the hell is your point anyways?

http://jasonjeffrey.files.w ordpress.com/2007/08/misssouthcarolinajm6 .jpg

[Burg the Ice]

I hate to say it, but the way she tells stories is simalar to how I tell them, except she doesn't do as many pauses, and doesn't drag the words out, and soesn't sound like that one guy from the 'Clear Eyes' comercials.

[BoxedCat]

I hate to say it, but the way she tells stories is simalar to how I tell them, except she doesn't do as many pauses, and doesn't drag the words out, and soesn't sound like that one guy from the 'Clear Eyes' comercials.

Well, obviously, especially from your last post. Care to explain the point of all that happy fun-ness? I got the impression you were trying to insinuate that humans will hunt all animals to their deaths. Does this include those that are quite obviously out of our reach, like the mighty Kraken?

[Vendetta]

Does this include those that are quite obviously out of our reach, like the mighty Kraken?
Isn't the Kraken ON the endangered species list?

[BoxedCat]

Isn't the Kraken ON the endangered species list?

No, it's extinct. It got killed in the third Pirates movie, remember?

[Vendetta]

No, it's extinct. It got killed in the third Pirates movie, remember?
I try not to.

[UNODRAGONE]

No, it's extinct. It got killed in the third Pirates movie, remember?


so is the Dingo :D

[MorganaFang]

so is the Dingo :D

Because people feared the dingo. Ees so scawy :o

[Gilenea]

Because people feared the dingo. Ees so scawy :o

I can see why. One time, a dingo ate my baby.

Gil

[BoxedCat]

I can see why. One time, a dingo ate my baby.

Gil

Beats the hell out of this guy


http://www.alanjohns.fsnet. co.uk/goldmember/fat-bastard.jpg

[Gilenea]

Beats the hell out of this guy.

You're right. The dingo did it with dignity... :p

Gil

[Kayote Thunder]

:( People are so !@#$%^&* stupid why shoot wolves there awesome and just want to live there lives and keep to themselves. Do people have nothing else do to but be morons and kill animals for no reason this is stupid.

[Vendetta]

:( People are so !@#$%^&* stupid why shoot wolves there awesome and just want to live there lives and keep to themselves. Do people have nothing else do to but be morons and kill animals for no reason this is stupid.
Please come back when you have learned the ways of punctuation my child.

[MorganaFang]

:( People are so !@#$%^&* stupid why shoot wolves there awesome and just want to live there lives and keep to themselves. Do people have nothing else do to but be morons and kill animals for no reason this is stupid.

Even though I like wolves, a lot, they are killing some wolves for a reason. Wolves are getting into livestock of farmers which being that they are farmers, they use that to live in one function or another. In some cases wolves have been hunting household pets too. Dont get mad get educated pwrease.

[Gilenea]

Wolves won't touch livestock due to the scent of humans... Unless they are starving because they're natural prey is being over-hunted by humans. They've done studies!

Gil

[MorganaFang]

Wolves won't touch livestock due to the scent of humans... Unless they are starving because they're natural prey is being over-hunted by humans. They've done studies!

Gil

The latter is actually very common. Which means something needs to be done with creating bigger preservation spaces. However I am still extremely dubious that they would be taken off the list just to be hunted for recreation.

[UNODRAGONE]

The latter is actually very common. Which means something needs to be done with creating bigger preservation spaces. However I am still extremely dubious that they would be taken off the list just to be hunted for recreation.


with housing developments and what not no wonder they are turning to live stock! But I agree with MorganaFang on this :) wolves are just not really hunt worthy animals in the true hunting sense. My cousins and I use to go hunting all the time and usually we went after what ever we could eat, hunting was half the fun, then you have to strip it and cook it. I can't imagine anyone eating wolf or mounting it on a wall for that matter :(

[jordanhitler]

:( People are so !@#$%^&* stupid why shoot wolves there awesome and just want to live there lives and keep to themselves. Do people have nothing else do to but be morons and kill animals for no reason this is stupid.

Because people are omnivorous, we are predators. Cougars kill wolves too, does that make them evil? Cougars and bears and sometimes even the prey they hunt, those antlers aren't just for show. Humans are at the top of the foodchain, possessing the most powerful tool that any animal has, a knowledgable brain. If an animal is a threat to humans, then it will be destroyed, plain and simple. But humans are animals too, and that same instinct to kill that resides to obviously in wolves also lies in human, a few hudred years aren't going to erase hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. So we as humans, as animals also have the need to kill, even if it is in a so called "civilized" manner, we must kill. We kill wolves because they are less developed beings than us. Luckily, in this day and age, Man has somewhat learned to control his overwhelming desire to kill, to dominate, and to have more. Now, with such large brains, we can cope with the idea that every part of nature is important and needs taking care of. Since it is this thinking that animals lack, it may be the reason for us evolving to the current stage that we are in.