Illegal Immigration

[archenemyfan]

Do you think this issue would ever be resolved? Another fence is not going to help, it will help a tiny bit, but it won't do as much as if you're protecting the great wall of china. In my social studies class, we were talking about this and my teacher had something to say..
Bush had like 7 years to fix this and he didn't. Personally I think the government worries more about the war than this. But my teacher came up with an idea-if you build the wall, get guards to watch over. He said that this happened when the Great Wall was built. Do you think it could work?

[UNODRAGONE]

Do you think this issue would ever be resolved? Another fence is not going to help, it will help a tiny bit, but it won't do as much as if you're protecting the great wall of china. In my social studies class, we were talking about this and my teacher had something to say..
Bush had like 7 years to fix this and he didn't. Personally I think the government worries more about the war than this. But my teacher came up with an idea-if you build the wall, get guards to watch over. He said that this happened when the Great Wall was built. Do you think it could work?


honestly, no :( people who want to come here badly are gonna find a way one way or another. Since immigrants are cheap labor and not really a threat, the president isn't really going to put much attention on this with everything else being put in front of him

[Buddha Monkey]

Do you think this issue would ever be resolved? Another fence is not going to help, it will help a tiny bit, but it won't do as much as if you're protecting the great wall of china. In my social studies class, we were talking about this and my teacher had something to say..
Bush had like 7 years to fix this and he didn't. Personally I think the government worries more about the war than this. But my teacher came up with an idea-if you build the wall, get guards to watch over. He said that this happened when the Great Wall was built. Do you think it could work?

Ummm....Clinton had 8 years to deal with it, Bush Sr had four years, this country has had over 300 years to deal with it.

And the great wall was not the end all be all. I'll look up the link tomorrow, but at least one ARMY got through. A few men here or there? Not so hard to do.

[archenemyfan]

honestly, no :( people who want to come here badly are gonna find a way one way or another. Since immigrants are cheap labor and not really a threat, the president isn't really going to put much attention on this with everything else being put in front of him

Yes-that's what I mean! If he this isn't going to get his attention, what will? WWIII??
I can see it happening....WW3, all based on nuclear weapons of mass destruction...

[Sazabi]

]this country has had over 300 years to deal with it.


hahahahah

[Buddha Monkey]

Yes-that's what I mean! If he this isn't going to get his attention, what will? WWIII??
I can see it happening....WW3, all based on nuclear weapons of mass destruction...

What about Congresses attention. There is little Bush can do without the support of Congress. Same as there was little Clinton could have done, or the next president.

Almost EVERY plan that has come forward from both sides of the party line has been knocked down for one reason or another. Then there are far left/right cities that won't deport those they know are illegal. That is something the Federal Goverment can do something about, but I don't recall hearing about any bill being pushed in either the House or the Senate to deal with it.

[Pickle Tickler]

Compared to some of the issues we are going to have in the future, losing a few odd jobs to illegal immigrants is the least of the US's problems. Besides, you don't even think of the shitty conditions in their own country. I can almost guarantee that if all you had been raised on was between that and the promise of a better life up north, you would try your damnedest to get across that border too.

Congress really doesn't care about all that anyway. It's a distraction from the larger forces at play.

[archenemyfan]

It's weird because I think there is money being wasted and that's why no one is doing anything about securing the boarders. I think this fence thing won't work, you're just replacing a beat-up one.

[LucimOfTheMoon]

the whole Illegal Immigrant thing is retarted... The US has much bigger things to deal with [Oil prices, Iraq, Osama, 2008 Elections, the list goes on] than people coming to America to get jobs. They want to work so let 'em work! It's not like it's hurtin our economy to have more workers livin' here...

I hold no grudges against any race, religion, or gender, so I don't see why so many politicians do... We talk about mexico when we say Illegal immigrant, but what about Canada, Russia, Korea, we have so many other nationalities joining our country "illegally" and yet, Mexico is all we think of... I say screw it, let's give 'em citizenship and tax 'em to death like we do everyone else...

"to freedom..." -Iron Man

[UNODRAGONE]

the whole Illegal Immigrant thing is retarted... The US has much bigger things to deal with [Oil prices, Iraq, Osama, 2008 Elections, the list goes on] than people coming to America to get jobs. They want to work so let 'em work! It's not like it's hurtin our economy to have more workers livin' here...

I hold no grudges against any race, religion, or gender, so I don't see why so many politicians do... We talk about mexico when we say Illegal immigrant, but what about Canada, Russia, Korea, we have so many other nationalities joining our country "illegally" and yet, Mexico is all we think of... I say screw it, let's give 'em citizenship and tax 'em to death like we do everyone else...
"to freedom..." -Iron Man

do you seriously not understand why Mexico is brought up so much? So in your words, by them breaking the law to come here we should reward them with citizenship?

[MorganaFang]

do you seriously not understand why Mexico is brought up so much? So in your words, by them breaking the law to come here we should reward them with citizenship?

As I have said before and will say again, it is deeply deeply insulting to the immigrants who come into the country through legal means. Especially given how excruciating that can be.

[UNODRAGONE]

As I have said before and will say again, it is deeply deeply insulting to the immigrants who come into the country through legal means. Especially given how excruciating that can be.


agree's 100% seeing as how my family came here LEGALLY, and were seperated from each other for 7 YEARS to do so

[Vendetta]

As I have said before and will say again, it is deeply deeply insulting to the immigrants who come into the country through legal means. Especially given how excruciating that can be.
Uhhh this arguement pretty EXPLAINS why illegal immigration is so prevalent though.

[MorganaFang]

Uhhh this arguement pretty EXPLAINS why illegal immigration is so prevalent though.

Yeah and I am not denying their logic for it, but I still think it is really annoying for legal immigrants. All I am stating this time around.

[ThrasherCub]

It's not like it's hurtin our economy to have more workers livin' here...
....

You can't see how the massive unemployment that comes with having a crapload more workers than jobs is harmful?

You impress me, but not in a good way.

[Vendetta]

....

You can't see how the massive unemployment that comes with having a crapload more workers than jobs is harmful?

You impress me, but not in a good way.
Can you show a correlation between an increase in illegal immigration and an increase in unemployment?

[Sazabi]

....

You can't see how the massive unemployment that comes with having a crapload more workers than jobs is harmful?


let's see some numbers on that. You know, out of all the unemployed I know, none of them make beelines to the fields and day labor jobs. Shit, most of them turn their nose up at mcdonalds and other lower level positions.

[archenemyfan]

let's see some numbers on that. You know, out of all the unemployed I know, none of them make beelines to the fields and day labor jobs. Shit, most of them turn their nose up at mcdonalds and other lower level positions.

Most of them do work at mcdonalds and fast food places. but they're willing to do jobs that no one will do. We should be grateful for that, but I think that if they just improve the economy in Mexico somehow, then it should be fine. But Lucium of the Moon gave me something-let's tax them to death. Because no one can escape taxes, well maybe the President might, but everyone pays them. Let them cross the boarder, but illegally, to where they sign to get in, and then they could be classified as ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT in the US. Then the government could taxe them more than the legal Americans.

[LucimOfTheMoon]

Thrasher... the reason we have unemployment on such a scale is because as Americans we are frikin LAZY... I'm not looking for pity when I say this it's just my experience, but my father could sit there and beat the living shit out of me every day, but he applied for Government Disability because he "couldn't work"...
I don't care how many times you argue it, it takes just as much energy to work at a Quiznos as it does to chase a 9 year old child around a 35sq. foot condominium so you can slap him. I know this because I work at Quiznos, and it's tiring. :D ;)

We blame illegall immigrants, but their just takin' the jobs we don't want and won't take.

[Hoplite]

honestly, no :( people who want to come here badly are gonna find a way one way or another.

agreed...when someone wants something bad enough, someone will find a way to get it

Since immigrants are cheap labor and not really a threat, the president isn't really going to put much attention on this with everything else being put in front of him

but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not important...even if they're not a threat, it should still be dealt with in a systematic way

[archenemyfan]

I also agree with UNODRAGONE, I really don't see immigrants as a 'real' threat, I see them as an 'economic threat.' And it should be dealt a whole lot easier to get them in. Make Mexico's economy better! We are a first world country while Mexico is a third world country. And everything there is near bad, so why can't the government just help mexico?

[LucimOfTheMoon]

I also agree with UNODRAGONE, I really don't see immigrants as a 'real' threat, I see them as an 'economic threat.' And it should be dealt a whole lot easier to get them in. Make Mexico's economy better! We are a first world country while Mexico is a third world country. And everything there is near bad, so why can't the government just help mexico?
we need people like you in politics... it might be close to civilized... :D

[Vendetta]

I also agree with UNODRAGONE, I really don't see immigrants as a 'real' threat, I see them as an 'economic threat.'
Can you explain what you mean?

[Tempest]

But Lucium of the Moon gave me something-let's tax them to death. Because no one can escape taxes, well maybe the President might, but everyone pays them.

No, they do not pay income taxes because they come here illegally. They are not citizens; they get paid under the table. We cannot tax those who the government does not know exists.
That being said many of them already pay taxes voluntarily (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/14/politics/main549153.shtml).

[archenemyfan]

Can you explain what you mean?

What I mean is that I don't see them as a threat to where they could cause an attack or something, but I see them as an economical threat. They can take money out of our pockets from living off of welfare, even though they could be illegal or not. Well....its kinda hard to explain, but I'm trying to say that if their living off of our taxes in welfare, then we're losing our money. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? [I know I'm not describing it in the best way...] :(

No, they do not pay income taxes because they come here illegally. They are not citizens; they get paid under the table. We cannot tax those who the government does not know exists.
That being said many of them already pay taxes voluntarily (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/14/politics/main549153.shtml).

I don't know if you read what I posted in that post, right before that sentence about classifying them as 'illegal' under the American Government...
Well the reason they pay taxes is because they don't want to get seperated. There was this situation in class where this kid got into a car accident and he was born in Mexico, therefore, he didn't have his license or insurance, making him an illegal, then he was put in jail. A 'sweep' was done later and they caught him and now his family is being ruled by the court. But, his sister is a citizen, she was born in the U.S. So the rest of his family except the little sister, has to go back to Mexico. This is part of the reason why illegals pay their taxes...and I can't really think of anything else now..
anyone wanna help me on this?

[Tempest]

They can take money out of our pockets from living off of welfare, even though they could be illegal or not.

Where are you getting that illegal immagrants are living off welfare? o.O

[archenemyfan]

Where are you getting that illegal immagrants are living off welfare? o.O

Right after a concert, my mom and I went to walmart and it was near midnight. She saw so many teenage mothers there with their own kids! And it was fuckin midnight! So anyways, she told me that those who can't really make a living off their own money live off of welfare. I thought that might apply to immigrants too [for awhile] before they can get back on their feet.

[Sazabi]

"Hi welfare office imma illegal immigrant gimme money plz."

it's extremly rare that illegals get benefits. Like all sorts of welfare fraud, it happens occasionally, but I'm pretty sure it's not an epidemic.

[Vendetta]

Right after a concert, my mom and I went to walmart and it was near midnight. She saw so many teenage mothers there with their own kids! And it was fuckin midnight! So anyways, she told me that those who can't really make a living off their own money live off of welfare. I thought that might apply to immigrants too [for awhile] before they can get back on their feet.
So basically you're going off something your mom said, and never looked into whether it was true or not? See kids, this is how misinformation and bias happens.

[archenemyfan]

Please don't get off topic Vendetta...
And Sazabi, I agree that there is fraud, but maybe I should look into it more..
I need to research that.

[Vendetta]

Please don't get off topic Vendetta...
Not off-topic. I was arguing that you information may not be 100% reliable.

Also, the ONLY economic threat I see illegal immigrants playing is if we were to oust them from the country. Our national economy would most likely be in turmoil (if not collapse) and we'd probably see inflation of prices for goods and services the likes of which haven't been seen since the depression.

[archenemyfan]

Not off-topic. I was arguing that you information may not be 100% reliable.

Also, the ONLY economic threat I see illegal immigrants playing is if we were to oust them from the country. Our national economy would most likely be in turmoil (if not collapse) and we'd probably see inflation of prices for goods and services the likes of which haven't been seen since the depression.

That I agree with. I don't want another long arguement like the 'ways to become a werewolf' thread. But that, I do agree with.

[dirtyrat]

Also, the ONLY economic threat I see illegal immigrants playing is if we were to oust them from the country. Our national economy would most likely be in turmoil (if not collapse) and we'd probably see inflation of prices for goods and services the likes of which haven't been seen since the depression.So your saying that our country sucked BEFORE they sneaked over our borders? And prices are already skyrocketing; does this mean that their leaving (our country) in droves now? Sorry, but I have a hard time believing you since you come from the Mexican state itself (Calif). How many illegals are in your state would you say? There would be nobody living there if they all left (Calif; pop. 294). Lol. I thought my state (AZ) was bad...

[archenemyfan]

So your saying that our country sucked BEFORE they sneaked over our borders? And prices are already skyrocketing; does this mean that their leaving (our country) in droves now? Sorry, but I have a hard time believing you since you come from the Mexican state itself (Calif). How many illegals are in your state would you say? There would be nobody living there if they all left (Calif; pop. 294). Lol. I thought my state (AZ) was bad...

My state has just as much Mexicans as Arizona. But I wouldn't get racist. I'm happy they're taking minimum wage jobs that no one would want.

[Kaden]

You'll probably change your mid about that as you grow older, AEF. Right now it seems you ar viewing the world through rose colored glasses.

[archenemyfan]

You're probably right, but everyone changes. But you have to remember I'm a teenager and you're 25. [happy birthday!] So I have a different type of mind on politics and that probably will change sometime. Just wait until college...that will be a blast.

[MorganaFang]

You're probably right, but everyone changes. But you have to remember I'm a teenager and you're 25. [happy birthday!] So I have a different type of mind on politics and that probably will change sometime. Just wait until college...that will be a blast.

I think with things being the way they are you honestly do not have to wait for college for your political views. Not necessarily on immigration but in general.

[Vendetta]

So your saying that our country sucked BEFORE they sneaked over our borders? And prices are already skyrocketing; does this mean that their leaving (our country) in droves now?
Are you serious?!? Dude, half the workers who pick those fruits we so love and clean those hotel rooms, mow lawns, and do a thousand other menial unskilled jobs the nation over (no, not just in California, smartass.) If those guys were suddenly to up and leave, YES our economy would crash. People wouldn't be able to afford goods & services either because there'd be no one to provide a good majority of them, or companies would have to pay legal residents minimum wage (which is, in most cases, a HELL of a lot more than they pay migrant workers.)

And the reason certain things are costing so much now is because FUEL prices are up, which in turn drastically raises the prices of ANYTHING that has to ship across the country.

Sorry, but I have a hard time believing you since you come from the Mexican state itself (Calif). How many illegals are in your state would you say? There would be nobody living there if they all left (Calif; pop. 294). Lol. I thought my state (AZ) was bad...
Uhh, I'm pretty sure it's the same in LOT'S of border states, especially Texas. Also, do you know there are quite a few who migrate OUT of state. There is a huge Mexican population in Kansas, a state that doesn't border Mexico at all.

Please rat, try to get an understanding of the world before you open your mouth, in the future..

[archenemyfan]

I think with things being the way they are you honestly do not have to wait for college for your political views. Not necessarily on immigration but in general.
That's what I mean.