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LV426
06-24-2008, 12:18 PM
Religious Americans: My faith isn't the only way (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080623/ap_on_re/rel_religion_survey; _ylt=AmyAxLap.0lhmbA xMCQfnZxH2ocA)

By ERIC GORSKI, AP Religion Writer Mon Jun 23, 2:37 PM ET

America remains a nation of believers, but a new survey finds most Americans don't feel their religion is the only way to eternal life — even if their faith tradition teaches otherwise.


The findings, revealed Monday in a survey of 35,000 adults, can either be taken as a positive sign of growing religious tolerance, or disturbing evidence that Americans dismiss or don't know fundamental teachings of their own faiths.

Among the more startling numbers in the survey, conducted last year by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life: 57 percent of evangelical church attenders said they believe many religions can lead to eternal life, in conflict with traditional evangelical teaching.

In all, 70 percent of Americans with a religious affiliation shared that view, and 68 percent said there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of their own religion.

"The survey shows religion in America is, indeed, 3,000 miles wide and only three inches deep," said D. Michael Lindsay, a Rice University sociologist of religion.

"There's a growing pluralistic impulse toward tolerance and that is having theological consequences," he said.

Earlier data from the Pew Forum's U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, released in February, highlighted how often Americans switch religious affiliation. The newly released material looks at religious belief and practice as well as the impact of religion on society, including how faith shapes political views.

The report argues that while relatively few people — 14 percent — cite religious beliefs as the main influence on their political thinking, religion still plays a powerful indirect role.

The study confirmed some well-known political dynamics, including stark divisions over abortion and gay marriage, with the more religiously committed taking conservative views on the issues.

But it also showed support across religious lines for greater governmental aid for the poor, even if it means more debt and stricter environmental laws and regulations.

By many measures, Americans are strongly religious: 92 percent believe in God, 74 percent believe in life after death and 63 percent say their respective scriptures are the word of God.

But deeper investigation found that more than one in four Roman Catholics, mainline Protestants and Orthodox Christians expressed some doubts about God's existence, as did six in ten Jews.

Another finding almost defies explanation: 21 percent of self-identified atheists said they believe in God or a universal spirit, with 8 percent "absolutely certain" of it.

"Look, this shows the limits of a survey approach to religion," said Peter Berger, a theology and sociology professor at Boston University. "What do people really mean when they say that many religions lead to eternal life? It might mean they don't believe their particular truth at all. Others might be saying, 'We believe a truth but respect other people, and they are not necessarily going to hell.'"

Luis Lugo, director of the Pew Forum, said that more research is planned to answer those kinds of questions, but that earlier, smaller surveys found similar results.

Nearly across the board, the majority of religious Americans believe many religions can lead to eternal life: mainline Protestants (83 percent), members of historic black Protestant churches (59 percent), Roman Catholics (79 percent), Jews (82 percent) and Muslims (56 percent).

By similar margins, people in those faith groups believe in multiple interpretations of their own traditions' teachings. Yet 44 percent of the religiously affiliated also said their religion should preserve its traditional beliefs and practices.

"What most people are saying is, 'Hey, we don't have a hammer-lock on God or salvation, and God's bigger than us and we should respect that and respect other people,'" said the Rev. Tom Reese, a senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University.

"Some people are like butterflies that go from flower to flower, going from religion to religion — and frankly they don't get that deep into any of them," he said.

Beliefs about eternal life vary greatly, even within a religious tradition.

Some Christians hold strongly to Jesus' words as described in John 14:6: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Others emphasize the wideness of God's grace.

The Catholic church teaches that the "one church of Christ ... subsists in the Catholic Church" alone and that Protestant churches, while defective, can be "instruments of salvation."

Roger Oldham, a vice president with the executive committee of the Southern Baptist Convention, bristled at using the word "tolerance" in the analysis.

"If by tolerance we mean we're willing to engage or embrace a multitude of ways to salvation, that's no longer evangelical belief," he said. "The word 'evangelical' has been stretched so broadly, it's almost an elastic term."

Others welcomed the findings.

"It shows increased religious security. People are comfortable with other traditions even if they're different," said the Rev. C. Welton Gaddy, president of the Interfaith Alliance. "It indicates a level of humility about religion that would be of great benefit to everyone."

More than most groups, Catholics break with their church, and not just on issues like abortion and homosexuality. Only six in 10 Catholics described God as "a person with whom people can have a relationship" — which the church teaches — while three in 10 described God as an "impersonal force."

"The statistics show, more than anything else, that many who describe themselves as Catholics do not know or understand the teachings of their church," said Denver Roman Catholic Archbishop Charles Chaput. "Being Catholic means believing what the Catholic church teaches. It is a communion of faith, not simply of ancestry and family tradition. It also means that the church ought to work harder at evangelizing its own members."

dwulf
06-24-2008, 02:54 PM
Whoa. I never knew all that. Perhaps there is some hope to be had. Yeah, I think I'm just in the wrong religious environment, that's all.:)

demonic_monkey
06-24-2008, 04:07 PM
I honestly don't know what to think of this. At first, I was glad to hear that people were finally acepting other religion than Christianity as ways to Paradise, but then I became alarmed at the fact that people might be so stupid as to forget their own religious teaching. Of course, a survey may not be he right way to go about this kind of thing, especially if they're surveying idiot "atheists" who believe in a God or higher power. As I recall, the definition of atheist is one who does not believe in a god of any shape, form, or fashion. Is America getting more stupid? I think so...

ThrasherCub
06-24-2008, 04:26 PM
Of course, a survey may not be he right way to go about this kind of thing, especially if they're surveying idiot "atheists" who believe in a God or higher power. As I recall, the definition of atheist is one who does not believe in a god of any shape, form, or fashion.
Somewhat common in Thelema is to acknowledge the truth behind all religions but practice one like it's the absolute truth as it is the perfect way for that particular person to experience life.

I find no reason why this can't be done with Atheism.

demonic_monkey
06-24-2008, 04:34 PM
And I'm not saying that it can't be done. What I am saying is that atheism is a belief in no god. They can acknowledge the truth of other religions as far as morality and the like but to believe there is a power above then turns them into a theist and not an atheist like they say they are.

dwulf
06-24-2008, 05:09 PM
An athiest believes in NO god or supreme being. I thought I was agnostic but as it turns out I'm really a theist/deist. Perhaps these guys are like me. Theists, since they believe in a higher power but that's as far as it goes.

ThrasherCub
06-24-2008, 05:31 PM
And I'm not saying that it can't be done. What I am saying is that atheism is a belief in no god. They can acknowledge the truth of other religions as far as morality and the like but to believe there is a power above then turns them into a theist and not an atheist like they say they are.

You sir, did not understand the depth of what my post was proposing.

demonic_monkey
06-24-2008, 05:35 PM
Then perhaps you sould explain the depths, as I seem to be at a loss here.

dirtyrat
06-24-2008, 06:15 PM
Most my family of uncles & aunts all were (still are?) strongly religious, and yet each of them had their own personally tailored concept of the rules to get to the great afterlife. Example; "The bible says this, but I beleive..."
---
In the end; Humans will never leave anything alone. It must be broken apart, looked at, discussed, worried about, forgot about (for awhile at least), and so on. Animals accept their fate, but humans never will.

Vendetta
06-25-2008, 10:29 AM
Animals accept their fate
I doubt most animals have reason or intelligence enough to realize their "fate".

but humans never will.
Says who? Also, are you talking about individuals here or humanity as a whole?

blueeyes
06-25-2008, 11:53 AM
Nearly across the board, the majority of religious Americans believe many religions can lead to eternal life: mainline Protestants (83 percent), members of historic black Protestant churches (59 percent), Roman Catholics (79 percent), Jews (82 percent) and Muslims (56 percent).

Excluding the Muslims, why is any of this particularly surprising?

The Jewish Sanhedrins make it rather clear that the righteous, whether Jewish or otherwise, have a share in the afterlife. Roman Catholic dogma makes it rather clear that Jesus walked among the previously dead, making it clear that there was a form of eternal life before he was around (albeit not a pleasant one) and the on-again-off-again doctrine of limbo provides a pleasant but not perfect form of eternal life for natural grace. The Vatican counsels in the mid-60s stated rather distinctly that salvation is available to certain non-Christians, fairly early in the Lumen Gentium.

Even the Qur'an states that Jewish or Christian individuals still get rewarded, although there are more than a few different interpretations as to what degree of good works are necessary to avoid a temporary stay in hell, and some folk intentionally ignoring the Jewish part of the quote.

chriz
06-25-2008, 12:07 PM
Nearly across the board, the majority of religious Americans believe many religions can lead to eternal life: mainline Protestants (83 percent), members of historic black Protestant churches (59 percent), Roman Catholics (79 percent), Jews (82 percent) and Muslims (56 percent).

Kinda bizarre that you have to die to have eternal life.

Myself, I believe genetic science can lead to a real eternal life.

RQ
06-25-2008, 06:11 PM
Another finding almost defies explanation: 21 percent of self-identified atheists said they believe in God or a universal spirit, with 8 percent "absolutely certain" of it.

I would like to have taken this survey to hear how it was worded. Clearly, either it was worded in a misleading way, or 21% of people surveyed don't understand the meaning of the word atheist. How embarassing for them to have labeled themselves so ignorantly.

Atheism:
1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings

dwulf
06-25-2008, 07:14 PM
Animals accept their fate, but humans never will.[/QUOTE]

Animals are blessed with the luxury of being incapable to fathom the concept of fate. Ignorance is bliss my friend.

DarkHunter
06-26-2008, 02:48 AM
Isn't this all indicative that people will buy into whatever is presented to them without agreeing with it? That way "atheists" will take the "weak atheist" label or believe in a "universal spirit" without realizing that that makes them theists.

Again it seems that Christianity is changing rather than dying. Then again, this might be an indication that it WILL die. Though I'm not unrealistic enough to assume that that would SOLVE anything. Its just an idle fantasy.

Vendetta
06-26-2008, 04:29 PM
Isn't this all indicative that people will buy into whatever is presented to them without agreeing with it? That way "atheists" will take the "weak atheist" label or believe in a "universal spirit" without realizing that that makes them theists.
Maybe they all just missed the leading 'A'?

Again it seems that Christianity is changing rather than dying. Then again, this might be an indication that it WILL die. Though I'm not unrealistic enough to assume that that would SOLVE anything. Its just an idle fantasy.
I actually hope that, rather than being indicative of religions becoming more "tolerant" per se, this is really individuals realizing on some level that their religion is, for all intents and purposes, nonsensical and/or contradictory. Also, I seriously doubt you'll see a religion that's existed for over 2000 years die out any time soon, if at all. But hey, we can dream.

Lysander
06-28-2008, 01:33 PM
It might take a few more generations but eventually people will abandon Christianity and other major religions for more enlightened personal spirituality. Heck, if somebody like ME did, I dont doubt everyone would too eventually.

demonic_monkey
06-28-2008, 01:41 PM
I agree, besides most of these old world religions are outdated anyway.

ThrasherCub
06-28-2008, 05:42 PM
This thread makes Thelema itself wriggle with delight.

DarkHunter
06-28-2008, 11:37 PM
Maybe I'm the "odd one out." But...my religion is the only one that matters. Screw all your other religions.

BoxedCat
06-29-2008, 01:11 AM
Maybe I'm the "odd one out." But...my religion is the only one that matters. Screw all your other religions.

Voted for Bush, did you now? I live with a Muslim. Cool guy, until you start talking about religious intolerance, then he gets all fired up about the fundies. Good thing we don't have any of that here.

"Hair on a man's chest is thought to denote strength. The gorilla is the most powerful of bipeds and has hair on every place on his body except his chest" -Anton LaVey

And I have a laser pointer. Punk won't see that coming, will he? He'll be all like "Chase the pretty dot!"

Location: On my super powered airship, The Daimon, where I will take over the world from.

If you're 19, you know full well not to end a sentence with a preposition. Allow me to provide, for the full acknowledgment of the community, your correction.

"I'm currently on my super-powered airship (not sure why), the Daimon, where I will make every effort to take over the world. And fail. Mainly because my English teacher passed me out of fulfilling the No Child Left Behind Act rather than actually teaching the basic tenets of the English language. As such, I will in truth land in Zimbabwe, which in every effort, as all media-reading persons know, simply ends in failure."

DarkHunter
06-29-2008, 01:48 AM
Voted for Bush, did you now? I live with a Muslim. Cool guy, until you start talking about religious intolerance, then he gets all fired up about the fundies. Good thing we don't have any of that here.



And I have a laser pointer. Punk won't see that coming, will he? He'll be all like "Chase the pretty dot!"



If you're 19, you know full well not to end a sentence with a preposition. Allow me to provide, for the full acknowledgment of the community, your correction.

"I'm currently on my super-powered airship (not sure why), the Daimon, where I will make every effort to take over the world. And fail. Mainly because my English teacher passed me out of fulfilling the No Child Left Behind Act rather than actually teaching the basic tenets of the English language. As such, I will in truth land in Zimbabwe, which in every effort, as all media-reading persons know, simply ends in failure."

Nothing to do today, hmm? Go throw feces or whatever it is you do on here.

demonic_monkey
06-29-2008, 02:10 AM
I am offended by that comment.

ThrasherCub
06-29-2008, 02:44 AM
Maybe I'm the "odd one out." But...my religion is the only one that matters. Screw all your other religions.
We should take over the world together.

Cosine
07-05-2008, 01:41 PM
That's interesting. Maybe growing up in the southeast didn't help, but I've always been under the impression that we were a nation of raving fundamentalists.

ThrasherCub
07-05-2008, 04:46 PM
That's interesting. Maybe growing up in the southeast didn't help, but I've always been under the impression that we were a nation of raving fundamentalists.
No, not all of us are fundamentalists. Not by a long shot. We are all raving however.

BoxedCat
07-05-2008, 10:23 PM
No, not all of us are fundamentalists. Not by a long shot. We are all raving however.

Did you catch State of Trance 350? 8 hours of gods, I tell you. GODS.

/DJ Shah has my ass a-wigglin' at the moment