The Rapture (for those who believe)

[BCvonRayfus]

I'd say this is just for Christians, but what matters isn't your denomination; whether you're Jewish or Catholic or Christian, whatever. What matters is what you personally believe. SO, for those of you who personally believe that Jesus Christ is your Savior from sin...please participate in my poll. Anybody who couldn't care any less, please don't post just to start arguments or anything unnecessary.

Okay, so I've been researching my face off about The End Times, the end of the world, the Tribulation, etc. etc., and I'd like your opinions on whether The Rapture of the Church will occur BEFORE, in the MIDDLE of, or at the END of the Tribulation. I honestly can't come up with an opinion at the moment, I've heard a lot of convincing ideas from everywhere about everything, and that's why I'd like thoughts from here. So, if you wouldn't mind, express your thoughts on The Rapture, and throw in whatever else you'd like from what you've heard otherwise or whatever. I'm not looking for arguing, just everybody's opinions, please! :)

[BoxedCat]

I'd say this is just for Christians, but what matters isn't your denomination; whether you're Jewish or Catholic or Christian, whatever. What matters is what you personally believe. SO, for those of you who personally believe that Jesus Christ is your Savior from sin...please participate in my poll. Anybody who couldn't care any less, please don't post just to start arguments or anything unnecessary.

Okay, so I've been researching my face off about The End Times, the end of the world, the Tribulation, etc. etc., and I'd like your opinions on whether The Rapture of the Church will occur BEFORE, in the MIDDLE of, or at the END of the Tribulation. I honestly can't come up with an opinion at the moment, I've heard a lot of convincing ideas from everywhere about everything, and that's why I'd like thoughts from here. So, if you wouldn't mind, express your thoughts on The Rapture, and throw in whatever else you'd like from what you've heard otherwise or whatever. I'm not looking for arguing, just everybody's opinions, please! :)

Your first mistake was asking for opinions.

Your second, assuming that your question fell under one umbrella.

I contend that we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
-S. Roberts

[blueeyes]

The Rapture isn't really a universal Christian thing. Most Catholic and Orthodox churchs don't believe it, and I think it contradicts a few parts of (falliable) Roman Catholic dogma. I'm not a Christian, or religious, but from what I can read of the texts in Revelations, there's evidence to support any real side.

That said, the pre-Tribulation Rapture view seems a bit contradictory, even though it's probably the most popular. The entire tribulation is supposed to be about persecution of Christians and Jewish individuals, and the former part doesn't make much sense if most Christians aren't around to be persecuted in the first place.

[BCvonRayfus]

Like I said, I've just been researching. I haven't heard stuff about the Rapture from many different perspectives, so I appreciate your input. So far, to me, the Rapture happening in the middle of the Tribulation makes the most sense, because you're right, the Tribulation could be the final tests and trials for God's people AT THE TIME. Once they go through half of it (the half that won't KILL EVERYTHING) Jesus comes and snatches them up before the Bowl Judgments. Those who are left (the ones who weren't already God's people) go through the worst parts of the Tribulation, and during that time there will only be two choices: Jesus, or Antichrist. The Antichrist will pretty much have power over the Earth -what's LEFT of it- by then if I'm right, and he's going to be very convincing as "The Savior" to those who didn't (and even some that DID) have Jesus at that time. SO:

Big, prosperous leader of the whole world who is actually the physical manifestation of all things evil, OOOOOOR...The Almighty God of all creation who is destroying the Earth and starting anew with peace and everlasting joy, with no crumb of evil or sin ever ever ever again????? :eek: :eek: :eek: IS THAT EPIC, or WHAT??????:buttrock: :drool:

Sorry. Had a moment.:p

And no offense to those who believe that the Rapture happens at the end of the Tribulation, but that doesn't really make sense to me with the Glorious Appearing happening once it's over. You'd be taken up, and brought right back down. :confused:

[dwulf]

Like I said, I've just been researching. I haven't heard stuff about the Rapture from many different perspectives, so I appreciate your input. So far, to me, the Rapture happening in the middle of the Tribulation makes the most sense, because you're right, the Tribulation could be the final tests and trials for God's people AT THE TIME. Once they go through half of it (the half that won't KILL EVERYTHING) Jesus comes and snatches them up before the Bowl Judgments. Those who are left (the ones who weren't already God's people) go through the worst parts of the Tribulation, and during that time there will only be two choices: Jesus, or Antichrist. The Antichrist will pretty much have power over the Earth -what's LEFT of it- by then if I'm right, and he's going to be very convincing as "The Savior" to those who didn't (and even some that DID) have Jesus at that time. SO:

Big, prosperous leader of the whole world who is actually the physical manifestation of all things evil, OOOOOOR...The Almighty God of all creation who is destroying the Earth and starting anew with peace and everlasting joy, with no crumb of evil or sin ever ever ever again????? :eek: :eek: :eek: IS THAT EPIC, or WHAT??????:buttrock: :drool:

Sorry. Had a moment.:p

And no offense to those who believe that the Rapture happens at the end of the Tribulation, but that doesn't really make sense to me with the Glorious Appearing happening once it's over. You'd be taken up, and brought right back down. :confused:

Two things. One: all this can be avoided if people didn't have religions in the first place. Two: There is no such thing as a world without a crumb of evil or sin, because it would contradict the balance of the polar forces of good and evil. The scales cannot be tipped completely in favor of one force.

Anyway, although I'm not a Christian, I agree with you about the timeframe of the rapture if it was to happen.

[Aleander]

I am not a Christian, but of what I know about the "Rapture Controversy*" is that the good people go up, then all the bad stuff happens.

[LV426]

Like I said, I've just been researching. I haven't heard stuff about the Rapture from many different perspectives, so I appreciate your input. So far, to me, the Rapture happening in the middle of the Tribulation makes the most sense, because you're right, the Tribulation could be the final tests and trials for God's people AT THE TIME. Once they go through half of it (the half that won't KILL EVERYTHING) Jesus comes and snatches them up before the Bowl Judgments. Those who are left (the ones who weren't already God's people) go through the worst parts of the Tribulation, and during that time there will only be two choices: Jesus, or Antichrist. The Antichrist will pretty much have power over the Earth -what's LEFT of it- by then if I'm right, and he's going to be very convincing as "The Savior" to those who didn't (and even some that DID) have Jesus at that time. SO:

Big, prosperous leader of the whole world who is actually the physical manifestation of all things evil, OOOOOOR...The Almighty God of all creation who is destroying the Earth and starting anew with peace and everlasting joy, with no crumb of evil or sin ever ever ever again????? :eek: :eek: :eek: IS THAT EPIC, or WHAT??????:buttrock: :drool:

Sorry. Had a moment.:p

And no offense to those who believe that the Rapture happens at the end of the Tribulation, but that doesn't really make sense to me with the Glorious Appearing happening once it's over. You'd be taken up, and brought right back down. :confused:

I would think that taking people up in the middle of a tribulation would make less sense. Not being a christian of course I don't care either way but as I see it, there can't BE a tribulation unless there is someone to tribulate. According to Revelations (which by the way was hastily added on and is in no way truly accurate for anything), the Rapture comes at the end. Where those who have taken Jesus as their Savior and who have survived the tribulation still believing in god, will now ascend to heaven an Jesus shall lead the way. Now I don't know what you mean by "You'd be taken up, and brought right back down.", that just doesn't make any sense. Once you ascend you ascend and that's it.

[Petrone]

The one defining factor of any and all religion seems to be its utter preoccupation with death blood and carnage. We've - or rather, other people have - been waiting for the End Times and the Rapture and Armageddon for over two thousand years now, and even longer if you go back into the Torah in any great depth. It's like watching an episode of Wheel of Fortune which never ever everends. You just get sick of waiting to see who wins, and then you start to think that maybe somebody, somewhere, is just winding you up.

p.s. If you take the entire duration of the Tribulation as beginning with the last sure sign of the impending end times, as I would, that being the rebuilding of the Third Temple on the Temple of the dome of the Rock, then the Rapture happens at the next sign, which is the sounding of the Trump of the Lord of Hosts, heralding the Second Coming of Jesus, though nobody has any idea how long between the two events one has to wait. And lets face it, we've been waiting a while, so maybe there's some breathing space built in. But who knows?

My two cents. And worth every penny.

[Petrone]

Almost forgot...

That whole Left Behind series is all about the people who are 'left behind,' and the authors indicate that the Rapture therefore happens without much warning, i.e. at the beginning of the Tribulation.

IS that worth anything?:confused:

[Vendetta]

Almost forgot...

That whole Left Behind series is all about the people who are 'left behind,' and the authors indicate that the Rapture therefore happens without much warning, i.e. at the beginning of the Tribulation.

IS that worth anything?:confused:
They are also works of fiction.

[RQ]

I direct all questions about the rapture to my game which was going on in the "Do You Think the Economy Will Collapse By September?" thread.

"Do you think the rapture will happen BEFORE, AFTER, or DURING another set of imaginary events that will never happen?"

[BCvonRayfus]

To LV: There are two different parts of Jesus' return: The Rapture of His Church, and the Glorious Appearing. The Glorious Appearing is undoubtedly supposed to happen when the Tribulation is over so Jesus can begin his 1000-year reign on Earth. He returns with all His people FROM Heaven, so if the Rapture happened at the end of the Tribulation, His people would go up to Heaven with Jesus, then come right back down to Earth with Him. For some reason, that wouldn't make sense to me. :p Where's time for the Wedding Feast of the Lamb if they have a tight schedule like that? :confused: It would make more sense for there to be time in between the Glorious Appearing and the Rapture, so the people left behind (like in the Left Behind books) can get a final chance to realize that they need Jesus in the middle of the Tribulation. I'm not saying the Left Behind books are TOTALLY RIGHT about EVERYTHING, but they're a good example of how everything is going to work if you ask me. Only they have the Rapture before the Tribulation starts, and the Biblical evidence they gave for that happening were various verses of God's promise to deliver His people out of danger and all that. But wouldn't we have to be in danger first to be delivered out of it? :p Hence my thoughts on the Rapture being in the middle of the Tribulation. I've also heard things about the Rapture being after the final trumpet blast, and forgive me for not knowing exactly where that's said in my Bible, but if it's true, then that would mean that the Rapture happens after the last trumpet judgement, which is in the middle of the Tribulation.

Keep in mind: The Bible also says quite a few times that nobody but God knows the exact date and time of Christ's second coming. It's supposed to happen like a "thief in the night," with nobody expecting it. That gives reason for it being before the Tribulation, because when THAT begins we're going to KNOW IT, and if the Rapture hasn't happened yet, then we could probably expect it sometime during the Tribulation.

[LV426]

Dean Koontz did an interesting take on this in a book called The Taken. You should read it.

[Petrone]

Quote from Vendetta - The Left Behind books "...are also works of fiction." Too true, but isn't Tim LaHaye, the author, a Right-leaning Family Values Christian, also strongly acquinted with people like Jerry Falwell? Therefore should know his Scripture.

[dirtyrat]

They are also works of fiction. I bet the authors of these kinds of books reap a LOT of cash - everyone (eh? those in religion) seeems obsessed with the end of the world - when/how/etc. I have much pity for those types.

And didn't that Jesus guy submit (in the bible) that no one would know these things.

[Petrone]

Preaching for profit is tax free.

[BCvonRayfus]

And to dirtyrat: Jesus said nobody would know the date and time of His Second Coming. This could mean the Rapture OR the Glorious Appearing, which are completely different events, but considered the 2 halves of Christ's Second Coming. The Left Behind books are stories of fictitious chracters and their lives during the time of the Great Tribulation, which is mapped out fairly clearly in The Revelation (the final book in The Bible). If nobody but God was supposed to know about the visions and prophesies of The Revelation, then the Revelation wouldn't have been written.:p

[MorganaFang]

To that I say this: I believe in a God that exists, and I'm far from atheistic. How does that fit into my picture of the universe? Well...the God I believe in created and owns the universe.

As opposed to other faiths who believe their gods do the same. However you would exclude an understanding of outside faiths in order to maintain a narrow viewed stance on the universe. Which I may add has only one singular, extremely biased source to back it up.

[LV426]

As opposed to other faiths who believe their gods do the same. However you would exclude an understanding of outside faiths in order to maintain a narrow viewed stance on the universe. Which I may add has only one singular, extremely biased source to back it up.

Nope I'm ruling against Boxed in this one. This is from a purely christian view so I'm allowing BC his secular thread. Fine if you don't believe in god, you can still present your view but I'm not having this thread clogged up with a list of every god in the world. Yup it's a biased view of the end of the world but that is the topic.You may however bring up alternate versions of the apocalypse from other religions as a comparison.

[Vendetta]

You may however bring up alternate versions of the apocalypse from other religions as a comparison.
Ragnarok FTW!

[BCvonRayfus]

Okay so I'm only posting again to make sure this thread doesn't become zombie-fied, because I'd still like more poll results if that's not a problem. And LV, I really appreciate your helping keep order in here. I freaking hate religious arguments, because I can't help but join them often. :o Anyway, if any other Christians/ believers in The Bible:p see this, feel free to reply. I see too many people these days who can't quite say whether or not they're Christians as much as they can say they just believe what The Bible says.