SkinWalkers

[LV426]

I've noticed in several threads that there have been questions about skinwalkers and incorrect information given. I don't have all that much information available because the Navajo people are reluctant to speak about skinwalkers due to the fact that they think mentioning such a creature will draw it's attention to them. But here is what I have discovered from those who have either firt hand experiance or knowledge of the skin walkers.
http://www.epilogue.net/users/cynroux/thumb/Skinwalkers.jpg

The skinwalkers are the equivalent of a Navajo witch. These are not witches in the sense that we know of wiccans and other pagans, these witches have powers that they use for malicious intent. Their powers are not just of shapshifting, they use spells and hexes against both navajos and non-navajos. They can use mind control, disease, and immobilization powders to cause their victims to become sick and cause them harm.

The mind control that they can use can even make the victim cause his/her own pain and inflict injuries on themselves. Skinwalkers have aso been known to immobilize a victim with special powders and place bones and other objects inside the victim's body in order to cause them pain and possibly even death.

Skinwalkers possess supernatural strength, speed, and agility. They can run faster than cars, leap over mesas and perform feats of strength that no human ever could. What makes a skinwalker different from a werewolf is that they do not have just one form. They choose the skins of the animals who's strengths or abilities that they need to accomplish their evil intents.
http://www.ancientnations.c om/Merchandise%20Photos/kachinas/thumbnails/lawrence_jacquez_ski nwalker_sm.jpg
Through ancient native spiritual abilities and powers they have the ability to imitate the animal whose skin they are wearing. They can be a cat, a wolf, bear, coyote, mountain lion (there are some discrepancies on this claim), or any other creature who's skin they wear. Each skin gives the skinwalker special abilities.

The coyote skin is for high speed, accurate sense of smell, and the acute agility. The bear skin is for brute strength, the wolf is for speed and night vision. The Navajo Skinwalkers also retain full mental faculties and mental capacities. No matter what form the Skinwalker takes they still have their human intelligence and mind so even though they have an animal's form they still have the cunning and deadly deceit of the witch.


Although I find the skinwalker to be an interesting creature and the abilitites to be quite astounding, I really can't classify this person/creature as a werewolf. Perhaps they are for there are some legends that tell of men who wore the skin of wolves and transformed into wolves but usually they took the beastial mentality and became a wolf that devoured livestock and children. Still skinwalkers seem to be in a class by themselves. There are other Navajo and other Native American peoples that had the abilities to change their forms into that of an animal but they did not use their powers for evil and so are not skinwalkers. The very difference between the skinwalkers, and the shapeshifters and were creatures as I see it, are that the skinwalkers were deliberatly malicious and only used their powers to harm or kill others.


PBS has a couple of films coming up for December showing called Skinwalker and Coyote Waits. You will have to check your local listings for when they are showing in your area.

[Totah Sam]

This is all I'm going to say on this subject.

skinwalkers were once messengers of the Holy People who travel the rainbow path. They were once pure and good. They became corrupted by the gifts that they knew had to be returned. Most did, some didn't. Those that didn't became the skinwalkers we know of today.

LH some of the information you garnered is 100% right on the money. Most of it isn't though. Mountain Lion skins have never been used.

What I'm burning with curiosity about is how in the world did you find out about them placing bones and other "things" under the skin? That's not commonly known.

o.k. I'm done.. back to your regularly scheduled program.....

[Totah Sam]

oh and that carving by Lawrence Jacquez isn't an accurate representation of what a skinwalker looks like.

[LV426]

Only pic of a skinwalker I could find lol


Oh and I have sources, there is this person I met online that I have talked with extensively about skinwalkers.

I don't know for sure about the mountain lion skin, I only know what he told me and one of the stories from one of his relatives was seeing one in the skin of a mountain lion which they then took on the semblance of one and used their claws to mark evil signs on their house. Sounded far fetched but makes for a good scary story.

I didn't know about the Holy People on the rainbow path. I'll have to add that to my repetoire.

[Totah Sam]

Only pic of a skinwalker I could find lol


Oh and I have sources, there is this person I met online that I have talked with extensively about skinwalkers.

I don't know for sure about the mountain lion skin, I only know what he told me and one of the stories from one of his relatives was seeing one in the skin of a mountain lion which they then took on the semblance of one and used their claws to mark evil signs on their house. Sounded far fetched but makes for a good scary story.

I didn't know about the Holy People on the rainbow path. I'll have to add that to my repetoire.

sounds like someone is pulling your leg but some of it accurate. We don't use "evil signs." It's more subtle than that. :p

[LV426]

I figured as much about the story, as I said they make for a good scary story at night. My sister gets freaked out when I tell that story.

[Totah Sam]

I figured as much about the story, as I said they make for a good scary story at night. My sister gets freaked out when I tell that story.

you really shouldn't be talking about this after dark... really.

[LV426]

you really shouldn't be talking about this after dark... really.

I like to live dangerously.

[blueeyes]

Little of my knowledge encompasses mythology, but I thought the Navajo's outlawed any form that replicated the image of their magical arts. Can't paint a picture of a sand painting, for example. Are all evil shapeshifters skinwalkers, or are all skinwalkers evil shapeshifters.

[Totah Sam]

Little of my knowledge encompasses mythology, but I thought the Navajo's outlawed any form that replicated the image of their magical arts. Can't paint a picture of a sand painting, for example. Are all evil shapeshifters skinwalkers, or are all skinwalkers evil shapeshifters.

sandpaintings are never supposed to be permanent ones. Not the ones used in healing ceremonies. If a permanent sandpainting is done (for tourists) the design is altered so the sacredness isn't polluted.

[blueeyes]

Yes, the sand is gathered and rubbed into the skin of the person to be healed.
From what I heard, it is not allowed to take a picture of a someone sandpainting for a ritual, nor is it allowed to paint the same image.
The entire groups seems to dislike making an permanent version of its magics.

[Totah Sam]

the sand is gathered and discarded. it is not used as a "medicine."

[Totah Sam]

This is one of the best "non-native" descriptions of sandpaintings that's available to the public:

-LINK (http://www.hanksville.org/voyage/navajo/sandpaintings.php3)-

[blueeyes]

Great. Now i can no longer say I am immune to Navajo spiritual cleansing, not if the person to try before was so incorrect.

[Totah Sam]

Great. Now i can no longer say I am immune to Navajo spiritual cleansing, not if the person to try before was so incorrect.

please don't take this the wrong way blueeyes but.. I really don't understand your statement. I'm a little confused on the usage of "immune" in this sentence. It's not you, it's me having english as a second language. What exactly are you trying to say? What do you mean by "immune to navajo spiritual cleansing?" Can you elaborate? Thanks. :)

[LV426]

Sam what mineral is used to create the blue color in the sand?

I know how all of the other colors are made but not the blue.

[Totah Sam]

Sam what mineral is used to create the blue color in the sand?

I know how all of the other colors are made but not the blue.

used to be strictly ground up turquoise. other cheaper material is being substituted these days. Lapis is now commonly used in commercial and sacred sandpaintings.

[blueeyes]

The fault is on my end. I apologize. What I said has no bearing; I just meant that the example of a navajo healing ritual I saw must have been performed improperly

[Kriss]

Skinwalkers are something I am personally very interested in. I have driven through the Navajo Reservation in New Mexico, looking for death hogans, but didn't see any. Of course, I stayed on the main roads.

What I do know about skinwalkers I have learned from Sam. Those of you who have done a search will know that there really isn't much available on the internet regarding them. However, I plan on doing some active investigation the next time I am out West, probably in late January or February 2004.

[lordragoon]

Here's one of the better resources I've found, but there really isn't much out there. Even asking people about them directly won't get you much; I'm surprised Sam is so willing to talk about them. I've been told the entire thing is taboo

http://web.nmsu.edu/~tomlynch/swlit.skinwalkers.ht ml

[Totah Sam]

If you notice I'm really not talking about them that much. :p


I've heard of "Navajo Medicine Woman" before and she's anything BUT. She has done a lot to hurt the image of navajo spirituality with her nonsense. There are no navajo witches. The word witch shouldn't even be used. Witch has been given the same negative connotation that indian has.

Don't be too surprised about what I do. I'm not your typical navajo. I tend to step outside the box every now and then. :D

[LV426]

Sorry about the witch reference made, it was the closest my friend could translate but I do understand and should have clarified that the term witch in this sense has no relation to the european concept of witch.

[Totah Sam]

Skinwalkers are something I am personally very interested in. I have driven through the Navajo Reservation in New Mexico, looking for death hogans, but didn't see any. Of course, I stayed on the main roads.

Are you forgetting about the one I found for you and took several pictures of and then paid for it weeks and weeks aftewards? :p

The things I do for you... sheesh. :D

[Kriss]

Absolutely not Sam. I love those photos. But now I want to see one for myself. :)

[punisher]

There is a pretty good anthropological study on skinwalkers by William Morgan called "Human-Wolves Among The Navajo. It was published by Yale University in 1936 in "Yale University Publications in Anthropology, vol. 11." You can check your local library and ask if they can get it through inter-library loan.

[Totah Sam]

There is a pretty good anthropological study on skinwalkers by William Morgan called "Human-Wolves Among The Navajo. It was published by Yale University in 1936 in "Yale University Publications in Anthropology, vol. 11." You can check your local library and ask if they can get it through inter-library loan.

total complete horse shit. It is chock full of ethnocentric interpretations and completely wrong information. Don't even bother.

[lordragoon]

Is there a better source that you would recomend?

[Totah Sam]

Is there a better source that you would recomend?

there is no "better source," we don't talk about it with anyone. I'm about the chattiest navajo you're ever going to meet. :D

[lordragoon]

Better than the book punisher recommended. If I wanted to talk to someone about it, I'll wait for my next vacation. I'm from New Mexico, and I've got a 'chatty' navajo friend, although I haven't talked to them about skinwalkers or any myths. I like book sources 'cause I don't have to think of the questions to ask them.

[Totah Sam]

Better than the book punisher recommended. If I wanted to talk to someone about it, I'll wait for my next vacation. I'm from New Mexico, and I've got a 'chatty' navajo friend, although I haven't talked to them about skinwalkers or any myths. I like book sources 'cause I don't have to think of the questions to ask them.

I hope you're really close, otherwise forget about getting any information. Especially within the Four Sacred Mountains.

[lordragoon]

Considering he's got no cares about the religous background of his people except for study?
Sorry. I've read over that, and I'm being far too confrontational. I don't mean to attack your knowledge; I only wanted to explain why I am interested in a book. I'm sorry. But do you have any suggestions on paper sources about skinwalkers that are at all accurate?

[Totah Sam]

Considering he's got no cares about the religous background of his people except for study?
Sorry. I've read over that, and I'm being far too confrontational. I don't mean to attack your knowledge; I only wanted to explain why I am interested in a book. I'm sorry. But do you have any suggestions on paper sources about skinwalkers that are at all accurate?

two words. "The Missing" that's the closest you'll ever get. lot of misinformation but some of it is so close to the real thing that I had chills up and down my spine.

and as for your navajo friend, it doesn't take a religion or faith to believe in skinwalkers. They're out there whether you believe in them or not.

[korn]

Only pic of a skinwalker I could find lol


Oh and I have sources, there is this person I met online that I have talked with extensively about skinwalkers.

I don't know for sure about the mountain lion skin, I only know what he told me and one of the stories from one of his relatives was seeing one in the skin of a mountain lion which they then took on the semblance of one and used their claws to mark evil signs on their house. Sounded far fetched but makes for a good scary story.

I didn't know about the Holy People on the rainbow path. I'll have to add that to my repetoire.
YES U DO HAVE SOURCES OR A SEARCH ENGINE AND FOUND THE WEBSITE THAT IS WORD FOR WORD OF WHAT U AND THAT GUY WITH THE WEIRD PIC SAID NOT BEING AN ASS JUST SAYIN

[Wraywolf]

First, don't use all caps, it's really annoying.

Second, making your posts less steaming piles of senseless crap, and more steaming piles of crap I can decipher might be helpful to your argument.

Although if you are retarded and cannot do this (which I have seen strong evidence of thus far), I suggest you step away from the keyboard and find a room that has a lot of sharp objects.

Preferably rusty.

[korn]

First, don't use all caps, it's really annoying.

Second, making your posts less steaming piles of senseless crap, and more steaming piles of crap I can decipher might be helpful to your argument.

Although if you are retarded and cannot do this (which I have seen strong evidence of thus far), I suggest you step away from the keyboard and find a room that has a lot of sharp objects.

Preferably rusty.
OKAY................ .ANYWAYS ITS NOT THAT SERIOUS JUST STATING THAT ITS OUT THERE AND ALL U HAVE TO DO IS LOOK...PLEASE SPARE ME..THE CAPS THING IF CAPS ANNOYS U THEN READ IT REAL FAST AND SCROLL OKAY...I JUST THINK PPL SHOULD ALWAYS TAKE CREDIT LIKE THEY KNOW EVERYTHING WHEN ITS ON A WEBSITE ALL U HAVE TO DO IS LOOK PLEASE

[korn]

OKAY................ .ANYWAYS ITS NOT THAT SERIOUS JUST STATING THAT ITS OUT THERE AND ALL U HAVE TO DO IS LOOK...PLEASE SPARE ME..THE CAPS THING IF CAPS ANNOYS U THEN READ IT REAL FAST AND SCROLL OKAY...I JUST THINK PPL SHOULD ALWAYS TAKE CREDIT LIKE THEY KNOW EVERYTHING WHEN ITS ON A WEBSITE ALL U HAVE TO DO IS LOOK PLEASE
OOOOPS SHOULDNT ALWAYS TAKE CREDIT OH MY GOD THE CAPS R MAKING ME RETARDED i shall stop

[LV426]

Korn if you would like to know my sources one is a graduate student Tom Lynch who is an anthropological guru. The other is his post graduate friend Doug Hickman. I found a site where they both had offered information about skinwalkers and followed up via emails to ask for more information. Yes the internet has a plethora of information available but sometimes you have to look for it. And some of the information that has been offered is not on any site and was first hand from the people that I spoke with. Does it matter where I got the info? Someone asked and I presented information.

I have read books and sites and asked people for first hand knowledge. Most of the information on websites about skinwalkers has some truth but you have to sift through it.

Unless you have information to contribute to this topic or others then don't bother to post for I will delete any further disruptions on topics from you.

[GoldShadowHunt]

I've heard a number of stories about skinwalkers since I live in Southern Colorado.

However, I'm doing a bit of in-depth research and have been unable to find any substantial mythos on the topic.

I have heard that there are initiation rites to becoming a skinwalker, and was entirely intrigued. (Don't think I'm a weirdo here. This is actually a research paper for my History 101 class.)

Anyway, further information is appreciated.

[punisher]

The best source of info on the topic is William Morgan's
"Human-Wolves Among the Navaho": which appears in Yale University Publications in Anthropology, vol. 11. 1936.

You might also check out the posts when this topic came up last year:
http://www.werewolf.com/vb/showthread.php?t=197 7&page=1&pp=10

[McKitty]

From what I know, the Navaho don't talk about the Skin-Walker and get very VERY tightlipped and cold-shoulder like when one does speak of the legend.

[GoldShadowHunt]

That's why I brought the topic up on the board. The Navajo are INCREDIBLY tight-lipped about skin walkers because part of the legends surrounding state that discussing them aloud will bring them upon you and your household.

Punisher, the link you put up wouldn't work for me. Will you post it again or pm it to me?

[punisher]

The link to to this thread that your post has been moved to. Check with your college's library about interlibrary loaning the Morgan book. WorldCat should track down who has copies, but your library should do that for you when they do the interlibrary loan. Good luck.
You might want to read Tony Hillerman's Skinwalkers novel. There isn't a lot about skinwalkers in it, but enough to make it interesting; and it is a great read regardless. It has been made into a movie twice. Recently by PBS Mysteries, and in the 90's with Lou Diamond Phillips, called "Dark Wind."

[Mondo]

I've heard a number of stories about skinwalkers since I live in Southern Colorado.

However, I'm doing a bit of in-depth research and have been unable to find any substantial mythos on the topic.

I have heard that there are initiation rites to becoming a skinwalker, and was entirely intrigued. (Don't think I'm a weirdo here. This is actually a research paper for my History 101 class.)

Anyway, further information is appreciated.


Sounds like an interesting class...However, I've also heard about initiation rites of skinwalkers. If I'm not mistaken the cost to learn...was to sacrifice a loved one. I believe four persons you cared the most about, were to die in order for you to learn the dark arts. I'm not sure if it had to be four people, but I know a loved one had to be sacrificed. After the apprentice agreed to the dark payment he/she began to learn his/her trade. Exactly how the person learned or what was taught, I have no idea. But, talking and seeking the aide of various medicine people, what skinwalkers do...mostly deal with death and sickness. Skinwalkers do shoot objects (stones struck by lighting, bone fragments of the deceased, stolen turquoise stones from a deceased victim, to name a few) into the body, causing sickness and disharmony. How this was/is done, I have no idea...I have read a book though: "Navaho Witchcraft" Clyde Kluckholm, which the author explained the process of "shooting" was achieved using a magic bow and arrow with the use of sacred songs/chants twisted backwards...I don't really remember the exact info, but it's a read. I'm from NM, so I've heard my fair share of skinwalker stories. It is true that the topic of skinwalkers isn't much discussed, even among my family. But it's still interesting to discuss.