Vegetarian Virgin Mary?

[LV426]

Vegetarian Virgin Mary ad riles church
Thursday, December 25, 2003 Posted: 12:31 PM EST (1731 GMT)


http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/TECH/science/12/25/peta.billboard.reut/story.peta.ap.jpg
Members of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) stage a protest in front of the U.S. Department of Agriculture on Wednesday.



BOSTON, Massachusetts (Reuters) -- The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Boston on Tuesday demanded the removal of an animal rights group's billboard advertisement depicting the Virgin Mary cradling a lifeless chicken in her arms.

The ad by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals features the tagline "Go Vegetarian -- It's an Immaculate Conception," a reference to teachings about Mary's purity.

But the church said the billboard was "offensive at any time" and especially so during the Christmas season.

"Why any organization would seek to garner goodwill for itself and its message by promoting an ad campaign that is so offensive to a large number of people within the community is unclear," the archdiocese said in a statement.

"What is clear is that if PETA truly cares about ethical behavior, the billboard message should be taken down as soon as possible," it added.

PETA said it has no plans to take down the billboard in Boston.

PETA said a similar advertisement went up in Providence, Rhode Island, earlier this month but was quickly removed by the billboard's owner amid similar complaints from Catholics there.

[J.L.R.]

So I guess sending PETA the roasted Turkey baskets is out of the question...? :D
Protecting Chickens eh...I bet none of those little buggers never raised one. I tell ya after years of cleaning, feeding, and raising chickens, "KILL THEM ALL!!! MWAHAHAHAHAA KILL THEM ALL!!!" er ah yeah...

We had a guy in Oklahoma pose as Jesus Christ and stand in front of Cattleman's with a sign saying, "For Christ sake, go vegetarian..."

I guess they never read, about Christ eating fish, or about all of the animal sacrifices in the Bible...

You would think they would pose as somebody Hindu or something? Of all the religions to hijack, they sure pick the one that makes absolutely no since to their quaint organization.

[MidnightPsi]

Genesis 9:3
Everything that lives and moves will be food for you.

Hey, plants are living things too but vegetarians eat them, how do they know that plants don't have feelings?

[DarkWolf]

Genesis 9:3
Everything that lives and moves will be food for you.

Hey, plants are living things too but vegetarians eat them, how do they know that plants don't have feelings?
Exactly, even plants feed off the dead. (see my post in the Good and Evil thread).

Although plants do not have any biological capability for emotion. It can "feel" the environment in a physical sense as it registers the soil, moisture and light surrounding it. So it cannot emotionally feel, but it can physically feel. Just some random info :D

[Tempest]

Genesis 9:3
Everything that lives and moves will be food for you.

Hey, plants are living things too but vegetarians eat them, how do they know that plants don't have feelings?
*is vegetarian*
You have no idea how often we get asked that question. I do not object to killing animals; I object to the way they are raised and the way they are killed. Plants are raised in much better environments than factory farm animals (which, if I remember correctly, is where 95% of America's meat comes from). At least they get to see the light of day. At least they are allowed to be free. At least they get to have fresh air. And at least they are nor left to bleed to death or otherwise be killed from neglect. Most vegetarians go vege because of the reason I gave. Other factors are health and environment. I'm not going to get into a whole "go vege!" speech, so for those of you who want to know more, here are some links:
Reasons Why Vegetarians are Vegetarians (http://www.ethicalworks.co. uk/youth/farmintr.htm)
Facts and Figures (http://www.britishmeat.com/49.htm)
Dangers of Vegetarianism (http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/veg_index.html)

[J.L.R.]

Food is food...

Have you ever raised pigs, chickens, or cows? I have, and I tell you, no matter how well you keep their habitats, they always seem to trash it. Pigs are simply filthy creatures, it is just their nature, nothing bad about that, and the same thing with chickens. It is a lot of work to take care of them, and a lot of effort goes into it. Now I know there are some people out there are that put money over animal life, but a great amount of the farmers I know, love their animals, and treat them fairly.

Such creatures wouldn't get that much respect in the wild. As far killing goes, in Oklahoma, it is quick. I lot nicer death, than to be ripped apart and devoured alive. Yes a farm animals life may look cruel, but it that is based on perception, and not on facts.

We had a bunch of PETA freaks out here griping about dog enslavement. They say, that all dogs should be released and allowed to be wild, however, I bet not a one of them, have ever been into the heart of Mexico, where such cases exist, and wild dogs are allowed to wonder free. Those poor animals are all skin and bones, and are barely, if at all, making it week by week. It is a tearful sight.

[LV426]

My grandparents raised beef cattle for years before they got too old to keep up and I have to say that those cattle saw fresh air, daylight, and roamed free and happy most of their lives. They were taken to the slaughter house and shot in the head. I have to say that as a death goes, that's not half bad. You get to roam wherever, food is brought to you, warm place in winter, treated for ticks and other parasites to prevent illness and then you die a quick and painless death. Hell, humans have a rougher life.

They also raised chickens but not for major resale, just for personal use and they had good lives too. The local farmers, some were beef ranchers, buffalo ranchers, and milch cows. All commercial food products and all of those people treated their cows and buffalo accordingly. Yes there are some people that mistreat their animals but stressed out animals provide poor meat quality. Acids from stress build up in the meat and make it very unpalatable so most farmers try not to stress out their animals. All of those chickens that are supposedly mistreated? Well you only see the really bad places and yes they should be stopped but they can't make that much of a long term profit because chickens don't lay eggs if they are stressed out for too long, that cuts down on egg profit and as for meat well if your chickens don't make it to a certain age then you are out of profit on the meat markets.

True there are those who mistreat their animals and they should be held accountable for their actions. But not everyone who raises animals for food are evil animals haters.


And as for Peta and their crusade to free all animals from human domination, there are some cases where human intervention has been the only thing between an animal and extinction. Domestic dogs are domestic, sure some can survive on their own but what kind of life is it to live off of garbage and not know how to hunt food and no one to administer medical treatment when one is hurt or injured. Dogs are not wolves or dingos or jackals, they are dogs, they were slowly bred to become a companion for humans. Cats too although they usually fare better than dogs in the wild, they are not meant to be wild anymore and there is nothing to check their populations in the wild. Have you see the feral colonies of cats in Australia? Thousands of cats living and interbreeding in wild cat colonies that destroy native life and spread disease. They shoot those cats. The population is so out of control that they have to shoot the cats by the hundreds and still there are more. They are so wild that they attack humans and kill domestic animals. They die horribe deaths from disease when a colony is infected by feline leukemia or feline aids. What kind of life is that?


There are so many causes that Peta could support and assist to better animals everywhere but they usually choose the wrong ones and no animals get helped but the humans involved get plenty of media coverage.

[J.L.R.]

I completely agree Lycan.

PETA's "message" has become more important than their reason. In a since they are no different than the religious fanatics that are so consumed with being right, that they forget about the why of the whole matter.

How many times have I seen wildlife refuges on the brink of bankruptcy, and in dire need of help, while these yahoos spend all of their money, and anyone foolish enough to listen to their pleas, on anti-this and anti-that campaignes. I've seen several bill boards supported and created by PETA, and not only do they stretch the truth, they are in many ways offensive to anyone with half a brain. All that money is wasted and not a single animal is helped.

Such money could help zoos, build further eductation on species, and buy lands, in which natural habitats could be created, but alas, no...

In honesty, I doubt these people even care about animals. All they care about is their message, and nothing more.

Such a waste.

[WahteverKittyK]

*is vegetarian*
You have no idea how often we get asked that question. I do not object to killing animals; I object to the way they are raised and the way they are killed. Plants are raised in much better environments than factory farm animals (which, if I remember correctly, is where 95% of America's meat comes from). At least they get to see the light of day. At least they are allowed to be free. At least they get to have fresh air. And at least they are nor left to bleed to death or otherwise be killed from neglect. Most vegetarians go vege because of the reason I gave. Other factors are health and environment. I'm not going to get into a whole "go vege!" speech, so for those of you who want to know more, here are some links:
Reasons Why Vegetarians are Vegetarians (http://www.ethicalworks.co. uk/youth/farmintr.htm)
Facts and Figures (http://www.britishmeat.com/49.htm)
Dangers of Vegetarianism (http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/veg_index.html)
Im with Tempest. And theres other reasons for at least not eating beef. It destroys the rainforest. If I remember this correctly, around 75% of the worlds beef is raised where there used to be rainforest. The less beef we eat, the less demand, thus the less cutting down of the rainforest. The cause of global warming is when you cut down the rainforest it releases vast amounts of carbon. Would you rather go vegetarian or leave a very warm planet around for our future generations? Ill let you decide...

[LV426]

http://www.peta.org/feat/shark/billboardbig.jpg

http://www.milksucks.com/marybbbig.jpg

http://www.petaeurope.org/feat/childabuse/childabusebbuk.jpg
http://www.amarillonet.com/images/headlines/030699/jesus.jpg
http://www.peta.org/feat/ar2002/images/Pg10_dog_fish.jpg
http://www.peta.org/feat/wendys/headbutt72losm.gif
http://www.bucktherodeo.com/bonnie-sm.jpg
http://www.msnbc.com/local/KHQ/Images/PETAbillboard.jpg
http://images.ibsys.com/2003/1202/2675204_200X150.jpg
http://www.cbsnews.com/images/2000/08/25/image227856.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/470000/images/_474136_peta_ad300.j pg

I tried to find the one that Peta put up in Houston of the evil Colonel Sanders standing over a slaughtered chicken with a bloody meat cleaver in his hand but I was unable to find that image.

These are just some of the stupid billboards that Peta has wasted money on. The cost of advertising on a billboard while comparatively cost effective can still be a significant amount of money. Not only that but the billboards that Peta puts up are usually removed within a month or two and yet the billboard space has a contract time that still has to be paid, so even if there is no sign for Peta on the board they still pay advertising fees. All that money wasted on a stupid billboard when thousands of neglected or abused animals could have been rescued and placed in good loving homes.

[J.L.R.]

Im with Tempest. And theres other reasons for at least not eating beef. It destroys the rainforest. If I remember this correctly, around 75% of the worlds beef is raised where there used to be rainforest. The less beef we eat, the less demand, thus the less cutting down of the rainforest. The cause of global warming is when you cut down the rainforest it releases vast amounts of carbon. Would you rather go vegetarian or leave a very warm planet around for our future generations? Ill let you decide...

However if you look at it that way, you might as well stop living in a house, stop mowing your lawn, stop using your faucet, bathtub/shower, toilet, stop using your car, stop using your heater, and the list goes on and on and on and on and on... Hey, let's just get rid of everything and stare at each other until we starve to death. Global warming is caused by a number of factors, not just deforestation. Some of those factors are naturally occuring, some aren't. I live in the USA, and most of our beef is raised on dairy land, that has nothing to do with rainforests, besides you can eat chicken, fish, lobster, crab, shrimp, squirl, rabbit, turtle, turkey, pork, quail, lamb (Currey...yum).
Look if one wants to be a vegetarian that is that persons choice, but please don't justify it as earth-saving jargen, because there are a lot more important factors to deal with than, to eat meat or not to eat meat. I don't think it is wrong for somebody to be a vegetarian, but I think someone who becomes a vegetarian, because they want to save the world, is missing the big picture, and are doing it for the wrong reasons.

I believe in moderation, and I think eating a healthier balanced diet is important, not only for keeping the pounds off, but it can also help you live longer. Vegetables and Meat are both important to the human body, as well as dairy products. Everybody should watch what they eat. If people eat healthier, McDonald's would go out of business. :) no..., but I think people wouldn't waste as much food as they do, including myself.
Now that is where I think we all could work on, meaning the human race, is if we choose to eat meat, make sure we are eating the fare share, and not wasting food. It is sometimes hard to think like that, especially living in such a foody place as the USA, but I think everybody could be less wasteful...

Hummmm....New Years Resolution....#1 (Don't waste meat or other foods)

Facts are facts, there are animals out there starving to death, while their "saviors" waste their money and time ranting.

[MidnightPsi]

They're tring to use a religious figure to promote views that that religion doesn't even believe in, that's what's maken me mad, and dogs have it easy, they don't have to hunt or do anything for that mattter, and then there's some people that buy there dogs sweaters and expensive dog food and just spoil the things rotten.

[LycanSpectre]

I always thought that PETA stood for "People Eat Tasty Animals." (j/k)

I would be a carnivore if I could maintian my health that way, but I can't.

Not meaning to offend anyone, but the PETA people need to get their heads out of their posteriors and take a good look around. Some humans are treated worse than those cattle and chickens. How many millions of people around the world starve because they cant even get food to begin with, much less have someone bring it to them? All through out history, humans have eaten meat. I do not see any reason to stop. Dont fix it if it isn't broke.

Im not even gonna start on that bile about releasing all dogs into the wild... the high points of that argument have already been covered.

[LV426]

I always thought that PETA stood for "People Eat Tasty Animals." (j/k)

I would be a carnivore if I could maintian my health that way, but I can't.

Not meaning to offend anyone, but the PETA people need to get their heads out of their posteriors and take a good look around. Some humans are treated worse than those cattle and chickens. How many millions of people around the world starve because they cant even get food to begin with, much less have someone bring it to them? All through out history, humans have eaten meat. I do not see any reason to stop. Dont fix it if it isn't broke.

Im not even gonna start on that bile about releasing all dogs into the wild... the high points of that argument have already been covered.
Just as a side note, the reason that humans obtained the capacity for higher thinking is because they began to ingest large amounts of animal proteins which enabled the brains to grow and hold a greater capacity for learning.

[J.L.R.]

Just as a side note, the reason that humans obtained the capacity for higher thinking is because they began to ingest large amounts of animal proteins which enabled the brains to grow and hold a greater capacity for learning.

Then why aren't other carnivors brains expanding? I tell ya, we should have some Einstien wolves around here by now! :)


Besides after seeing the Darwin Awards section, and the fact the people tend to mass in large groups and bitch about pointless subjects beyond imagination, I am beginning to doubt the human intellect.

Thus I find the one thing that divides us from wild animals...

We gripe! :D

[LV426]

Then why aren't other carnivors brains expanding? I tell ya, we should have some Einstien wolves around here by now! :)


Besides after seeing the Darwin Awards section, and the fact the people tend to mass in large groups and bitch about pointless subjects beyond imagination, I am beginning to doubt the human intellect.

Thus I find the one thing that divides us from wild animals...

We gripe! :D
Apparently different body and brain case structure. Humans evolved from creatures with a basic body structure that was then improved upon but the animal proteins introduced into a vegetarian and insectavorian diet enabled brain tissues and muscle tissues to evolve faster and the capacity for thinking to increase. Also in gaining ways to gather larger food sources there was more frequent periods not spent gathering food and so then there was less of a worry about survival and creative juices were able to flow which lead to inventions. Sure they were inventions used for neccesity but they evolved into art and technology.

If you get a chance watch the Discovery show Walking With Caveman, it is very informative and there are many anthropological books especially on the people that lived in and around the caves at Lascaux where the cave paintings were found. It's pretty neat.

[Tempest]

I wasn't talking about your friendly neighborhood farm. Half my friends are farmers (I live in the farm ghetto), and I know they treat their animals with love and mercy. I was talking about factory farms, where animals are treated like crap. I became vegetarian when I wanted to know where my food came from and how it got to be there. I didn't like what I found. I didn't want to be ignorant anymore. If my family could have afforded the home-grown meat around here, I wouldn't mind eating it. Just because we are "meant" to eat meat doesn't mean we have to. I disagree that some humans are treated worse. Veal cattle are put in boxes to stunt their growth. Chickens are put in cages the size of a medium-sized paperback book, two or three in each. They live in their own waste. Pigs go insane and bit off each other's tails. Chickens also go insane and pluck their own feathers off from boredom. Cows aren't always milked everyday, and their udders grow too full, resulting in disease or death. Dead cows are left to rot for days, sometimes weeks. And you know how they are killed? Cows are hung up-side-down from one foot. Their throats are slit and are left to bleed to death. The only time a factory farm animal gets to see the light of day is when they are on their way to the slaughterhouse. And that's just the beginning. It makes me furious. We don't have the right to do that to any other living being. It's just wrong.
People have the misconception that more protein=better. Just as there is such a thing as too little protein, there is such a thing as too much protein.
Meet rots in your colon if you don't eat enough fiber (something most vegetarians get more of than the average carnivore), causing colon cancer.
Dozens upon dozens of reasons for becoming vegetarian.
PETA sometimes wastes their time, but honestly, which association doesn't? I don't always agree with what their views are, but they have a right to their opinion, too.
The best thing about being a vegetarian is that I know where my food comes from. Do you really know where yours does?

[J.L.R.]

I've been to a butchery before. I had to pull data and phone cables at one once. While I was there I got to see cows being slaughtered, and A. the Cows are DEAD before they are even hung upside down. In these large places they stick them with what I could tell is a spear-like javelin, that carries a high concentrated voltage. They hit them in the spine, and BOOM the cow is dead. Only then is the cow hanged upside down and bled. I can't imagine them trying to hang a healthy living cow. Cows are pretty powerful.

I live in Oklahoma, and there are hundreds of farms here with probably hundreds of thousands cows, all of which have grazing lands.

As far as cleaness goes. There are laws that make sure such places are kept clean. Shoot we had only 4 cows, and I had to scoop droppings to keep the pasture clean, because of our location and health reasons.

Factories, at least by law, have to be kept clean, because a diseased animal is a diseased animal.

That is why when I am in Mexico, we don't buy beef. Their standards are kept like ours in the US.

I'm sure that there are people who abuse animals, I am almost positive, and especially when you get the money equation involved, people like cutting corners, but I still don't see that as a reason to go vegetarian, however that is just me.

That would be like somebody going around and killing all pitt bulls because a few are bad eggs, or saying M rated video games are bad because a some kids take them too far.

You're right, it isn't healthy to just eat meat. That is why people should eat a balanced diet of both vegies and meats. I mean vegetables are good for you, no doubt about that, and probably half of America's dietary problems is the lack of that variable in their diets.

Now I am not saying it is wrong to be a vegetarian. You don't have to justify your diet. It is your body and your choice, however, I am saying it is wrong to sit there and nag at those who choose to eat meat, because you saw an isolated problem. In truth you would have to go to every food processing plant to say they are all bad. Secondly I hold anything that PETA says as rubbish, becuase they are too narrow minded, and have a great tendency to stretch the truth and bend it to their wills.

[LycanSpectre]

Tempest, dont beleive everything you see. I wouldn't put it past groups like PETA to create worst case scenario situations for those animals just so they could take pictures and tell everyone thats how all animals are treated.

I am sure thats somewhere out there cattle are treated inhumanely, but that does not mean that all or even most cattle are treated that way. I dont see that as any reason to stop eating meat, but that is just me.

In fact, my sis tried to turn me vegetarian once, by showing me a PETA brocure while I was eating a large burger ( :drool: ), with fries. (Those poor potatoes.) I calmly leafed through the brochure, loooked at all the pictures, and kept eating. I told her that PETA didn't know shit.

[LV426]

All of the things that you described Tempest come right out of a PETA brochure.

Here's some fun facts about milch cows. If you don't milk them when it is time to milk them then they won't produce as much milk. That is considered profit loss and there is no way that a company who's main suppy of money comes from milk products is going to lose profit by not milking cows.

Facts about chickens. Stressed out chickens that pluck their feathers and do not get to move provide mushy, tasteless meat. The fat content is high and the meat yeild is minimum. That's not what the companies want, they want optimum meat with minimum fat and bones. They have entire manuals on how chicken farmers can avoid the stressed out chicken. If chicken farmers are so cruel then why would they try to prevent that from happening?


Yes there are some people that do abuse their animals but they have these inspectors and animal police now that make sure that large facilities that deal in food animals are clean, sanitary, and non-abusive. And the ones that do abuse animals are usually caught before long and shut down.

It's not economical to abuse your profits.



Ah well, your choice, but the thing is we all have choices and trying to make people change their lifestyle just because you disagree with it is just wrong. That's why Peta pisses me off. They take money that could reallly be used for animals and their welfare and crusade against people who eat meat.

[Tempest]

I've never even read a PETA brochure. All I said came from various books...which I read a lot of. And about the "taking the worst," there is enough of the worst to make dozens of videos of animals being abused. PETA can exaggerate, and may take the worst of the worst to prove their point, but the bottom line is, the real facts aren't made up. They are proven through videos, documents, eye-witnesses, etc. I'm not trying to justify my diet because I don't even know you people. Nor am I trying to change your views on vegetarianism. I am simply trying to inform people about why vegetarians are vegetarians. :D