Ancient Hebrew Texts in South America

[Wolffy13]

I just remembered this today and was wondering if anyone else has heard this. A friend of my husband, who seems very intellectual and apparently has a knowledge and interest in ancient cultures, said he had watched a program that claimed ancient hebrew texts were found in South America (fairly recently, I would guess). Has anyone else heard of this find?

The reason I ask (and this may only interest me for all I know) is that in the Book of Mormon (I'm not preaching, I promise, just sharing) it talks about how people came from the middle east to the Americas, mainly South America, and chronicles them up to a certain point in time. We believe that is how the Native Americans came about. I've been present at a few Native American religious meetings and to hear them speak of their religion is almost like hearing a twisted around version of christianity, ALMOST. There are apparent similarities, or at least to the sort of Native American spirituality I was exposed to.

I just thought that such was interesting, kind of like how Noah's Ark had been found. What have you guys heard?

[Salahudeen]

There is a book called "Deeper Roots:Muslims in the Americas and the Caribbean From Before Columbus To the Present." African Muslim sailors came to the Americas long before Columbus the Butcher was even born. In fact some of the maps he used where the Islamic maps of America. It is only a six dollar book so you might want to check it out.

[Frostbeard]

There is a book called "Deeper Roots:Muslims in the Americas and the Caribbean From Before Columbus To the Present." African Muslim sailors came to the Americas long before Columbus the Butcher was even born. In fact some of the maps he used where the Islamic maps of America. It is only a six dollar book so you might want to check it out.

I've heard this claim before, and it still strikes me as being very questionable. I've seen the estimated dates of arrival ranging from the 10th century all the way up to the 14th, and the usual point of arrival is the Gulf of Mexico. That seems like an awfully long, landless route to take, and it seems quite unlikely to me that a 10th century sailor would survive one way, nevermind a round trip.

The Icelanders, who built ships that might actually have been worthy enough to make such a trip, still stuck to the coasts for the most part. But then again, there's actual EVIDENCE of them hitting land and settling in about the 10th century, not just a passage in a book translated centuries later...

[Salahudeen]

I've heard this claim before, and it still strikes me as being very questionable. I've seen the estimated dates of arrival ranging from the 10th century all the way up to the 14th, and the usual point of arrival is the Gulf of Mexico. That seems like an awfully long, landless route to take, and it seems quite unlikely to me that a 10th century sailor would survive one way, nevermind a round trip.

The Icelanders, who built ships that might actually have been worthy enough to make such a trip, still stuck to the coasts for the most part. But then again, there's actual EVIDENCE of them hitting land and settling in about the 10th century, not just a passage in a book translated centuries later...
Well there is ACTUAL EVIDENCE of their landing. Among them are maps that where drawn on their arrival. In addition we have eye witness acounts from later non-Muslim sailors, among them Columbus, who wrote in his journal seeing Mosques in the hills.

If you know anything about oceans then you know that there are currents which help speed ships along across the Atlantic. If you want to be critical then read the book first. Don't say "I heard this before..." because it shows you don't know what your talking about.

Digging for the Red Roots by Mahir Abdal-Razzaaq El

My name is Mahir Abdal-Razzaaq El and I am a Cherokee Blackfoot American Indian who is Muslim. I am known as Eagle Sun Walker. I serve as a Pipe Carrier Warrior for the Northeastern Band of Cherokee Indians in New York City.
There are other Muslims in our group. For the most part, not many people are aware of the Native American contact with Islam that began over one thousand years ago by some of the early Muslim travelers who visited us. Some of these Muslim travelers ended up living among our people.
For most Muslims and non-Muslims of today, this type of information is unknown and has never been mentioned in any of the history books. There are many documents, treaties, legislation and resolutions that were passed between 1600s and 1800s that show that Muslims were in fact here and were very active in the comunities in which they lived. Treaties such as Peace and Friendship that was signed on the Delaware River in the year 1787 bear the signatures of Abdel-Khak and Muhammad Ibn Abdullah. This treaty details our continued right to exist as a community in the areas of commerce, maritime shipping, current form of government at that time which was in accordance with Islam. According to a federal court case from the Continental Congress, we help put the breath of life in to the newly framed constitution. All of the documents are presently in the National Archives as well as the Library of Congress.
If you have access to records in the state of South Carolina, read the Moors Sundry Act of 1790. In a future article, Inshallah, I will go in to more details about the various tribes, their languages; in which some are influenced by Arabic, Persian, Hebrew words. Almost all of the tribes vocabulary include the word Allah. The traditional dress code for Indian women includes the kimah and long dresses. For men, standard fare is turbans and long tops that come down to the knees. If you were to look at any of the old books on Cherokee clothing up until the time of 1832, you will see the men wearing turbans and the women wearing long head coverings. The last Cherokee chief who had a Muslim name was Ramadhan Ibn Wati of the Cherokees in 1866.
Cities across the United States and Canada bear names that are of Indian and Islamic derivation. Have you ever wondered what the name Tallahassee means? It means that He Allah will deliver you sometime in the future.
Article Taken from:The MESSAGE, July 1996(Copyright: The Message Magazine (http://www.icna.com/) as long as proper acknowledgement has been stated, and a link to the site is retained, it can be reproduced)

[Salahudeen]

Sung Document

The Sung Document is a work of a Chinese author circa 1178. Its importance lies in the claim that the land it describes as being reached by Muslim sailors, "Mu-Lan-Pi", is in fact the Americas (it has also been specifically associated with the area now known as California). If the identification is correct then this document provides one of the earliest records written evidence of travel from the continent .

[Salahudeen]

1178 CE..Muslim Explore America? (part 1)
Reprinted from "The Islamic Bulletin", San Francisco, California
Muslims have exerted a great and largely unrecognized impact on American society, beginning with their exploration of America more than 300 years prior to the "discovery" of the "New World" by Christopher Columbus.
The Muslim explorers accessed the interior of the continent by using the Mississippi River. The traces of their early presence may be found in the architecture and calligraphy of towns such as St. Augustine, Florida (America's oldest town), in the names of islands such as Islamadora, and in the customs of the American Indians. Some little known but very intriguing statistics follow :
In 1178, a Chinese document known as the Sung Document records the voyage of Muslim sailors to a land known as
Mu-Lan-Pi (America). This document is mentioned in The Khotan Amirs, published in 1933.
Abu Bakari, a Muslim king from the Malian Empire, leads a series of nautical voyages to the New World in 1310.
In 1312, African Muslims from Mandinga arrive in the Gulf of Mexico and explore the American interior via the Mississippi River.
1513, Piri Reis completes his first world map, including the Americas, after researching maps from all over the world. The map is unsurpassed in its practicality and artistry.
1530, African slaves arrive in America. More than 10 million were uprooted from their homes and brought to America, and more than 30 percent of these were Muslim. These slaves formed the backbone of American economy.
In 1539, Estevanico of Azamor, a Muslim from Morocco, lands in Florida and becomes the first Muslim to cross the American continent At least two states owe their beginnings to this Muslim, Arizona and New Mexico. (end part 1)

[Salahudeen]

More Evidence (Part 2)
New Zealand archaeologist and linguist Barry Fell in his work Saga America points to evidence of a Muslim's presence in various parts of the Americas. In addition to drawing several cultural parallels between West African peoples and certain "Indian" peoples of the southwest, Fell points out that the southwest's Pima people possessed a vocabulary which contained words of Arabic origin. The presence of such words among the Pima is compounded by the existence of Islamic petrogyphs in places like California. Fell informs us that in Inyo county, California, there exists an early American petrogyph (rock carving) which states in Arabic: "Yasus ben Maria" ("Jesus, Son of Mary"), a phrase commonly found within the surahs of the Holy Qur'an. Fell is convinced that this glyph is many centuries older than the U.S. Fell also identifies the Algonquian language as having words with Arabic roots, especially words which pertained to navigation, astronomy, meteorology, medicine and anatomy. The presence of such words again illustrates significant cultural contact between the American "Indians" and the Arabic-speaking peoples of the Islamic world. Such Islamic peoples evidently came primarily from the African continent as additional evidence suggests.
Ivan Van Sertima in They Came Before Columbus outlines evidence of ancient and early African contacts in the American continent. Among the items of evidence which Van Sertima unveils is the presence of African Muslim surnames among American "Indian" peoples. Van Sertima points out that Ges, Zamoras, Marabitine, and Marabios are a few of the names with clear transcontinental links. Of particular interest however, are the names "Marabitine" and "Marabios" which relate to "Marabout" (Murabit); the "Holy Men and Women" of the Moorish Empire. The Marabouts were the protectors of African Muslim frontiers. They are often remembered for having acted as buffers against Catholic/European encroachment.
In Panama and Colombia there were rulers ("princes") whom the invading Catholic Spaniards recognized as having "completely Moorish or Biblical" names: such as "Do-Bayda" and "Aben-Amechy." Even in the Caribbean, the evidence of a significant Muslim presence can be found. P.V. Ramos points out in African Presence in Early America, that Christopher Columbus' own impression of the "Carib" peoples was that they were "Mohammedans." Ramos says that the dietary restrictions of the Carib were similar to those of Islamic peoples and this provided one reason for such an impression.
Columbus admitted in his papers that on Monday, October 21, 1492 CE, while his ship was sailing near Gibara on the north-east coast of Cuba, he saw a mosque on the top of a beautiful mountain. The ruins of mosques and minarets with inscriptions of Qur'anic verses have been discovered in Cuba, Mexico, Texas and Nevada. During his second voyage, Columbus was told by the Indians of Espanola (Haiti) that Black people had been to the island before his arrival. For proof, they presented Columbus with the spears of these African Muslims. These weapons were tipped with a yellow metal that the Indians called Guanine, a word of West African derivation meaning gold alloy.
In 1498 CE, on his third voyage to the New World, Columbus landed in Trinidad. Later, he sighted the South American continent, where some of his crew went ashore and found natives using colorful handkerchiefs of symmetrically woven cotton which resembled the head dresses and loincloths of Guinea in their colors, style and function. He referred to them as Almayzars. Almayzar is an Arabic word for `wrapper,' `cover,' `apron' and or `skirting,' which was the cloth the Moors (Spanish or North African Muslims) imported from West Africa (Guinea) into Morocco, Spain and Portugal. During this voyage, Columbus was surprised that the married women wore cotton panties (bragas) and he wondered where these natives learned their modesty. Hernando Cortez, Spanish conqueror, described the dress of the Indian women as long veils and the dress of Indian men as `breechcloth painted in the style of Moorish draperies.' Ferdinand Columbus called the native cotton garments `breechcloths of the same design and cloth as the shawls worn by the Moorish women of Granada.' Even the similarity of the children's hammocks to those found in North Africa was uncanny.
Dr. Barry Fell (Harvard University) introduced in his book Saga America solid scientific evidence supporting the arrival, centuries before Columbus, of Muslims from North and West Africa. Dr. Fell discovered the existence of Muslim schools at Valley of Fire, Allan Springs, Logomarsino, Keyhole Canyon, Washoe and Hickison Summit Pass (Nevada), Mesa Verde (Colorado), Mimbres Valley (New Mexico), and Tipper Canoe (Indiana) dating back to 700-800 CE. Engraved on rocks in the old western US, he found texts, diagrams and charts representing the last surviving fragments of what was once a system of schools - both elementary and higher levels. The language of instruction was North African Arabic written with old Kufic Arabic script. The subjects of instruction included writing, reading, arithmetic, religion, history, geography, mathematics, astronomy, and sea navigation.
The descendants of the Muslim visitors of North America are members of the present Iroquois, Algonquin, Anasazi, Hohokam, and Olmec native people.
In 1654, the English explorers reported a colony of bearded people wearing European clothing, living in cabins, smelting silver, and dropping to their knees to pray many times daily, wherever they might be. The early 17th Century Powhatan Indian's description of Heaven is nearly, word for word, the description found in the Holy Qur'an. Tennessee Governor John Sevier records a 1784 encounter in what is now Western North Carolina with a dark-skinned, reddish-brown complexioned people supposed to be of Moorish descent who claim to be Portuguese. In east Tennessee in late 1700's Jonathan Swift, an Englishman, employed dark-skinned men who were known as "Mecca Indians."
Many "Indian" words seem to have their origin in Arabic indicating a definite link and heritage. This is but a very small sampling of many Indian words with connections to Islam and Arabic/Turkish origins.

Indian Word Turkish/Ottoman Meaning
Allegheny (mountains) Allah genis God vastness
chitlin citla a crackling sound
Seminole Sami nal Semites who ran away
Niagara Falls Ne Yaygara Huge noise (literally, "what a noise")
Micanopy Mekka-nabi Prophet of Mecca Seminole chief who united the variousfactions of the Semi noles into a major fighting force
Hadjo Hodja (Hoca) wise leader who has been on "haj" to Mecca Shawnee sah ne great shah, or great king
Shenandoah sen doga happy/pleasant natural setting
Cherry Winche cari-ince shallow flowing stream (Name of a small stream in Louisiana)
Tuckahoe Tur-kih-ot Round dirty plant (Algonquin/Powhatan word for tubular, potato-like plant)
Shindig sen lik ( "shen-lick") happy or joyous party (old Appalachian word for community party
Werowance veri-han ("werra-hahn")Turkish term meaning religious, God- fearing leader"

There is much more which can be said about the legacy of Muslims in the early Americas. In spite of what the proverbial mainstream community may think, the presence of Muslims in the Americas is much older and much more profound than many of them know or care to admit. When the Prophet (pbuh) told his followers to "go as far as China" to spread the word of Islam, it is becoming apparent that they did just that and more!

[LV426]

Sala I gave you the benefit of the doubt and read the articles, followed up on sources and then went to corroborate the information provided. What it boils down to is a bunch of Muslim/Islamic hype. The information is completely theoretical and has no substantial facts to back up their claims of Muslims in North America in the 10th Century. There were never any Mecca Indians, and as for this Englishman by the name of Jonathan Swift in Tennesee in the late 1700s, the only Jonathan Swift I could find died in 1745 and he never journeyed to the americas.

Your Digging for Red Roots is based on fictional accounts and theoretical ideas which have never been proven anthropologically. The Sung Document has NEVER been verified as being a map of the Americas. Again it is only theory. People have taken actual events and individuals and changed the perception to make it seem as if there is actual factual evidence of Muslims coming to the Americas in the 10th century. In fact by the very evidence shown the likelyhood of such is quite improbable.

One of the articles states that

"The descendants of the Muslim visitors of North America are members of the present Iroquois, Algonquin, Anasazi, Hohokam, and Olmec native people."

Now I don't know if you know the range of these indians but let me lay it out for you. The Anasazi were in Colorado, the Olmecs were in eastern mexico, the Hohkam were in Arizona, the Algonquin in Illinois, and the Iroquois were in Up State New York area. For Muslims exploreres to have traveled that far in the time frame that you speak of ridiculous, and further more when queried, the Native Americans that still represent their people deny any Muslim or Islamic influence in their cultures.


These articles that you cited were written by fanatical Muslims, for fanatical Muslim websites. There are conspiracy theories and paranoid delusions that run rampant and not a shred of truth to back any of these so called "Facts". You need to stop being a sheep and actually do your own homework instead of taking what people tell you and calling it fact. Think for yourself or you may never be allowed to think again.

[Frostbeard]

Well there is ACTUAL EVIDENCE of their landing.

Really? Like the remnants of a settlement? A copy of the qu'ran carbon dated to the 10th century? No? How about legends passed down by the Native tribes about dark-skinned voyagers from across the sea? No again? Hmm.

Among them are maps that where drawn on their arrival. In addition we have eye witness acounts from later non-Muslim sailors, among them Columbus, who wrote in his journal seeing Mosques in the hills.

Y'know, I wouldn't even say that it's necessarily untrue that Muslim explorers came to North America before Columbus. What I find ridiculous is that those who claim that this happened almost always say that the Muslims settled and thoroughly explored everything from Texas to California. Oh, and they also exerted influence on all the Native tribes along the way, even though none of those tribes would back that up. Oh, and they converted a bunch of them too. Right.

If you know anything about oceans then you know that there are currents which help speed ships along across the Atlantic.

Yes, but those currents weren't known in the 10th century, and the chances of someone coming across them by chance, and then finding ANOTHER set of currents to get them home, are next to none. Even with those currents, they would have been at sea for a very, very long time.

The reasons for setting out have never really been clear to me though. The Europeans of Columbus' time were looking for trade routes. The Icelanders were looking for new lands to settle. Do the tales of Muslim explorers give them any motivation other than beating the Christians?

Also, what kind of ships were the Muslims supposed to have been using? They weren't exactly renowned shipbuilders at that point in time, and it's no simple matter to build a wooden ship capable of withstanding the high seas.

If you want to be critical then read the book first. Don't say "I heard this before..." because it shows you don't know what your talking about.

So because I've heard of the subject before, I must be ignorant of it? Yeah, that makes sense.

[Salahudeen]

So because I've heard of the subject before, I must be ignorant of it? Yeah, that makes sense.I never said you where ignorant because you said you heard about it. You said that you had "heard" about it, which implies from a third party and implies no previous research. I never said you where ignorant.

Lycanthropic Howl as for you I am not surprised at your hostility towards Islam, it seems to be trendy these days. I don't know how Muslims talking about coming to the Americas before Columbus makes us "fanatical," but I do find it pathetic on your part to make such an idiotic remark. Also the ancient Egyptians are said to have established trade routes to the Americas and brought back among other things tobaccol. And it is an established fact that tobacco has been found in Egypt dating thousands of years old. Also they have rebuilt ship designs from both the ancient Egyptian times and the early Islamic periods and successfully sailed them accross the seas from Africa to the Americas. I find it almost boardering on racist that you think only white people know how to sail.

[LV426]

I never said you where ignorant because you said you heard about it. You said that you had "heard" about it, which implies from a third party and implies no previous research. I never said you where ignorant.

Lycanthropic Howl as for you I am not surprised at your hostility towards Islam, it seems to be trendy these days. I don't know how Muslims talking about coming to the Americas before Columbus makes us "fanatical," but I do find it pathetic on your part to make such an idiotic remark. Also the ancient Egyptians are said to have established trade routes to the Americas and brought back among other things tobaccol. And it is an established fact that tobacco has been found in Egypt dating thousands of years old. Also they have rebuilt ship designs from both the ancient Egyptian times and the early Islamic periods and successfully sailed them accross the seas from Africa to the Americas. I find it almost boardering on racist that you think only white people know how to sail.

I'm not hostile towards Islam at all. I am hostile towards all idiots no matter what race, creed, religion, or sexual preference. I target stupid, fanatical christians and stupid, fanatical republicans too so don't feel like I have singled out the Islamic people for persecution, only the stupid fanatical ones.

Now I never said that Muslims talking about being in America before Columbus was the reason I said the websites were fanatical. I went to the websites and read the articles, looked over the information, as well as read the views of the individuals that post on, and are members of the website. For that reason and that reason alone, is the reason that I said the website was fanatical.

Now as for your Egyptian trade routes, there is no confirmation that Egyptian ships were capable of crossing the ocean to that great of a distance. I did find that Egyptian mummies had been tested and were found to contain nicoteine in hair samples. Other mummies tested showed levels of nicoteine that in a human would prove fatal as well as cocaine.

It is thought that perhaps tobacco leaves and coca leaves were used in the preservation methods for the dead. Unfortunately there is no way to know if it truly was tobacco or some other plant since the preservation herbs are not completely documented and many of the herbs and plant material is unknown. Again there are theories that there was transcontinental trade but there is no valid proof to suggest that there was indeed a trade route from Africa to the americas.

It is suggested that there were Atlantic crossings and others feel that a Pacific Crossing would have been more realistic. Still there is no concrete evidence and even scientists are hesitant to claim the validity of such a trade route. So in lieu of lack of evidence I'm sorry but your claims are null and void until such time as the scientific community proves otherwise.

Now I never said that only white people can sail, in fact I am sure that there were a great number of sailors that were not white and all. I wasn't there, so I don't know. I'm not really prejudice, I hate everyone equally with some exceptions allocated to family and friends. I think however that you are very racist because you made this a white/non-white issue.

[Wolffy13]

Well, this subject seemed to get resurrected....sort of.

OK, guys, while I suppose it could be possible that muslims might have come over here, I don't think they're influence would of been that great. It would be more apparent among the Natives, and I use to do some powwow dancing, so I had the oppurtunity to get pretty close, and as I stated, the Natives' religion had more similarites to Christianity (not saying the Natives ARE christian).

Secondly, the people I had in mind, came from the middle east at a much much earlier date. I mean, we're talking B.C. here. It's possible that these people I refer to and these Hebrew texts they found may not be linked together, but then again, they could. Who knows. What I had wanted to know, was if anyone had heard this, not if they could really prove it.

By the way, I had heard about the whole Egyptians and tabacco thing. Kind of interesting