space race or money waste?

[Smaug]

just a q.or2...

is it really for the the advancement of man that G W Bush has decided to persue a trillion dollar ($1,000,000,000,000) space race?

or merely another cynical vote buying exercise?

couldn't that amount of investment be put to better use?

i find it difficult to believe that the next 4 Prez's will sanction and continue this Sci-Fi policy, although I am expecting that the UK will will offer support and jump on board as soon as we are asked (like all good lap dogs do...)


end of rant

[Wolf-Bone]

I never actually liked Bush from the get go. But I'm seriously beginning to believe he might be a lunatic. He's probably going to get voted back for a second term, but unless some SERIOUS shit turns around in those next four years, he's going to be the only president since Hoover to have fewer jobs than when he entered office. He's thrown hundreds of lives away without giving it a second thought, for no real reason other than to distract the moronic masses from realer, far more intimidating threats. And rather than take this magic money tree and repair education, healthcare, or hell even rebuild Iraq with it, instead it's "let's find out if Mars is the other planet made of cheese!!"

You see, to me, Bush proposing to conquer Mars reminds me a lot of the Iraq invasion:

-It's an counterproductive campaign, designed to distract the same people who actually do something productive to earn those countless tax dollars, from the fact that they're being economically raped.

-There's really nothing there anyone could find that we didn't already know was there in the first place.

-You just know SOMEONE is going to get killed in the process.

-It's really not going to do one damn thing to improve anyone's life.

-And last but not least, Bush doesn't give two flyin' fucks about the outcome because it's just going to get dropped in the lap of the next two or three presidents anyway.

Honestly, I used to be fascinated by the idea of space travel. Um, when I was like 10, and didn't have real responsibilities, and before I realized there were better things the time, money, and effort could be spent on in THIS world.

[Kirin Fenrir]

Let me begin by saying...I despise Bush. He's an ignorant, fundamentalist TOAD who let his own ego get in the way of properly running a country.

But he's almost done the right thing here, even if it was for the wrong reasons. You can sit back and talk about domestic concerns, sit back and turn your nose up at the heavens...you can sit atop your high horse and say there's no need for mankind to worry about space. YOU can say that. Can your grandchildren?

Space, lke it or not, is our inevevitable future. Overpopluation is becoming rampant, fossil fuels are vanishing and radioactive fuels will eventually, and fresh water supplies dwindle. The only option mankind has is to spread, and eventually to find other worlds or moons to mine raw resources from and to populate. It may be a rather sick idea to think that we spread like a plague to survive...but you can't deny it.

This doesn't even bring up the sheer amount of technology that will be created to fuel these efforts, and how that technology will in turn better our lives here on Earth. Freeze dried foods were invented for space travel...so were many of the materials used in cars today. Hell, it can be argued that the computer revolution was derived from space travel, from NASA requiring. I'm to lazy to do a full search on all the technologly gained from space exploration, but just run a search through Google and you'd be amazed.

Now, I'm not stupid. This is nothing more than a way to win public approval close to election time, much the same way the capture of Saddam was probably planned. His proposal is giving very little new money to NASA to achieve these lofty goals...and if you notice, the majority of them don't come into effect until after 2010. Bush can only remain in office until 2008. Meaning of course that he will be known as the President with the great space vision, and the NEXT president will be known as the one who failed to achieve it.

It's a a devious and brilliant political move that I hope some good will come out of, at least. It's too early to tell.

[Wanderer]

just a q.or2...

is it really for the the advancement of man that G W Bush has decided to persue a trillion dollar ($1,000,000,000,000) space race?

or merely another cynical vote buying exercise?

couldn't that amount of investment be put to better use?

i find it difficult to believe that the next 4 Prez's will sanction and continue this Sci-Fi policy, although I am expecting that the UK will will offer support and jump on board as soon as we are asked (like all good lap dogs do...)


end of rant

I'd like to see you, or any of you, do a better job then bush has. Yes, he is a dumb ass texan that can't tie his own shoes but everyone makes mistakes. I do say 'mistakes'. I actually would like to see a therian as pres. of the united states. That would be quite interesting.

Maybe bush is the only were dodo in existance? hmm..

btw smaug, is your sig from monty python by any chance?

[LV426]

While I would like to see expansion to other planets and space exploration I believe that this is just another ploy of Bush's to get votes. Earlier last year Bush was making announcements that there would be no further funding of the space program and now he wants to launch a full scale Mars and Moon settlement mission. Seems that the american people were a wee bit upset when he wanted to discontinue space exploration. So basically he needs votes. Besides he doesn't have the funds that he is talking about. Unless he sells the souls of the american public to the devil for a hefty price he is going to have a hard time meeting any of the objectives he has announced. There is no money, there are now less jobs than ever, and he is giving the other jobs to low wage working immigrants. Oh Yay! *Note Sarcasm Here*

Our nice little american economy is going to be a nice little puddle of sludge.

Oh yes and in the spirit of my campaign, on the ballot, write in my name. :cool:

[blueeyes]

If there aren't any jobs, how are immigrants getting them? Yes, you could say immigrants are willing to take jobs cheaper, but it's a rather loose arguement now that they've got legal minimum wage, the only jobs immigrants are likely to get remain at the same pay scale. Although McD's pays more than minimum wage to most of its employees.

I'll just go with the belief that since Bush in it to make himself rich and has a great deal of people working for him who know what they're doing, that there is a reason for this.

How does increased goverment debt kill the economy? I thought it increased foreign trade.
I can't see a Mars mission getting us anything useful, but it does move money through the tech sector...

[RQ]

Bush knew public opinion of him was slipping, and people were realizing that those weapons of mass destruction (aw, dangit) just aren't anywhere to be found.

Meanwhile:

The successful (finally) Spirit mission to Mars excited people about space again, however briefly. Color pictures, even. Very nice. So what did Bush do? Saw that the public didn't like him, but they did seem to like space an awful lot...

Anyone with a brain stem can see that he (for the first, and probably last time in his life) put two and two together to see that if public opinion of"Bush" was bad, and public opinion of "Space" was good, combining them would improve "Bush"'s public opinion.

This is one voter who won't be voting for him no matter what last-ditch tactics he (or, far more likely, his PR Advisor) comes up with.

[purinpuff]

Ugh. The thought of a permenant settlement on the moon is a bit disgusting. Mess with Mars, but don't mess with our moon.

Welp, he's just making himself seem cool with a big declaration of something some other president is going to figure out how to do.

[Ben]

I'd like to see you, or any of you, do a better job then bush has.

Wanna see a better job? Vote for me this year. I'll show ya a better job. We need a Pagan in the WH1TE H0USE!

Do any of you realize that for 1% of the cost of this program, world hunger could be ended thats one percent folks!

[Wanderer]

Wanna see a better job? Vote for me this year. I'll show ya a better job. We need a Pagan in the WH1TE H0USE!

Do any of you realize that for 1% of the cost of this program, world hunger could be ended thats one percent folks!

World hunger will never be solved. thats a fact. Humans are so fucking greedy, even if every country had enough food to survive they would allways be fighting for each other's food supply, attacking each other's food supplies to kill them off because of religios beliefs or over land and everyone would complain about the same food over and over.. well you see where I am going with this. the only way to solve world hunger would be to take everyone's free will away. That would solve alot of other things too... i bet with the ammount of money for this program they could find a way to do that :p

We do need a pagan in the white house though, that would be cool. But you need to focus on my realistic goals then 'world hunger' cause if you really looked into it, the current way humans are, its just not possible. Maybe humans will change in a couple thousand years or something.

[chriz]

People, please read the papers. NASA's current 5-year budget is $85 billion. This money is already allocated and would be spent if nothing is done. Bush's plan (and I don't for a second believe he came up with it) is to pull $11 billion of that $85b and use it to start a new manned Moon mission. This will need another $800 million over the 5 years on top of already-allocated $11b, so that's the only "new" money being put into this.

The shuttles need to be retired, and this is where the $11 billion is coming from (at least -- each shuttle costs anywhere between $1 and $4 billion a year to operate and maintain). They've been in service for longer than they had originally been designed. NASA needs an enema badly, and they have a history of dragged feet and hemmed haws. They're obviously broken.

As for this being something he's doing to get votes -- of course it is. We vote elected officials in so they do what we want, and they do what we want so they get re-elected. If this was "just to get votes," then the logic that follows is that most Americans want this (otherwise, how would it win him votes?).

[Xzengrim]

Look, I love NASA and space travel and all that (hell, I wanted to be an astronaut when I was a kid), but NOW IS NOT THE TIME. Whatever they say, it's going to cost more money to send men to the moon and Mars... it just will because it's a big initiative. Not that I'm complaining, but now is not the time or the place for such a venture.

How about updating the shuttle fleet first, so we wont have any more dead astronauts raining out of the sky? Or updating the space telescopes we already have, so we can increase the piteously small view of the sky that we have from here? Or putting money into the ISS that doesn't seem to be progressing at all lately?

That, and I think Bush must be trying to screw us over. Nobody could be that fSck1|\|g stupid just by luck. It's bad enough that he blames all of the country's problems on 9/11, while surreptitiously fScking over the environment and the lower class while everyone is distracted. It's bad enough that he basically just fScked Iraq for the money, and then gave it all to his rich oil buddies. It's bad enough that he's taking MY tax-money and using it to kill people I don't care about, and putting the whole country in righteous super-debt. First he took our money and gave it to Iraq. Now he's trying to send it to the moon. He MUST be trying to stick it to us, for some reason.

I'm going to print up some white tee shirts with huge black letters, and they're going to say "FUCK BUSH", "ANYONE BUT BUSH", and "ONE TERM PRESIDENT" (Insert little black-bloc anarchist xerox of Bush's head). I should sell them for $2.

[chriz]

I'm going to print up some white tee shirts with huge black letters, and they're going to say "FUCK BUSH", "ANYONE BUT BUSH", and "ONE TERM PRESIDENT" (Insert little black-bloc anarchist xerox of Bush's head). I should sell them for $2.

But at least you're not biased... :rolleyes:

[Xzengrim]

Damn straight! Come on now... everyone would buy one of those. I'm also going to print up some with my other logos, "Cannibalism: Solving Overpopulation One Meal At A Time", and "When In Doubt, Side With the Penis".

[LV426]

Damn straight! Come on now... everyone would buy one of those. I'm also going to print up some with my other logos, "Cannibalism: Solving Overpopulation One Meal At A Time", and "When In Doubt, Side With the Penis".
I am not eating people, you never know where they have been.

[RQ]

I am not eating people, you never know where they have been.

Or, worse, you do.

[Defender]

We are at war and the world seems to be going to hell, so we don't need to spend one trillion dollars on exploring space.

[Wereferal]

The worst part of this (from my point of view and in my country anyway) is that John Howard (current Aussie PM) is going to do the same thing, while sucking up to George Bush.

A public statement of John Howard's:

Now, some people have been saying that I do everything George Bush tells me and believe everything he says. This is not true. I am a very independant man. George Bush told me so.

If that doesn't scream STUPID I don't know what does, with the possible exception of a big, red, flashing, neon sign in capital letters attatched to someone with a megaphone.

[chriz]

We are at war and the world seems to be going to hell, so we don't need to spend one trillion dollars on exploring space.

Or maybe that's exactly why we do...

[dejavugirl]

I think it's about time they put NASA back on the map. We've been long overdue for some serious space exploration.

[GhostBat]

I'm all for space exploration, and giving renewed attention to NASA. However, I am not in the least bit pleased to watch Bush use this as a way to gain popularity. When Bush is out of office, I'll be happy.

[chriz]

I'm all for space exploration, and giving renewed attention to NASA. However, I am not in the least bit pleased to watch Bush use this as a way to gain popularity. When Bush is out of office, I'll be happy.

Is he really gaining popularity with it? Seems like it's pissing people off...

[MorganaFang]

Some places he is and some places he isn't. My pop and I think hes just going to fake the moon landing again.

Another theory I heard is he kept Sadam locked up to raise popularity when polls were going down and that hes going to do the same thing with Osama.

[GhostBat]

It's not pissing everyone off. I know quite a few ignorant bastards who think otherwise. *sigh*

[chriz]

Some places he is and some places he isn't. My pop and I think hes just going to fake the moon landing again.

Again?

[LV426]

Again?
You know my great aunt Dot thinks that the moon landing was faked because God wouldn't allow the tower of Babel to be built and he won't let space craft leave the planet.

[blueeyes]

He is pissing off people who already have 'stop Bush' signs on their porches. He might get a couple swing voters.

I remember that some people think the moon landing video was of New Mexico, right outside of Los Alamos, too. I'll go with the telescopic view of the flag, though.

[Xzengrim]

The theory behind the faked moon landing is that we were really only doing the space race to build morale at home and to sock it to the Russians (not because we wanted to know anything about outer space). In the end, the government decided that we had to win the space race at any cost, and that it would be cheaper and easier in the end to just fake the moonlanding rather than continue spending the money and manpower. It's actually not a bad theory, if you think about it. Consequent moon missions may have been real, but the July 7 (?) 1969 one was not. FOX did a show about it a couple years ago... it was pretty good I think. There are also some books about it. I don't know if it's true, but it's fun to think about.

It's a strange proposition to consider. How do you know they DIDN'T fake the moonlanding?

[Caitiff]

Ive got to go with wolf bone here..
The only reason Bush wants to check on Mars is to see if there was ever life on the planet.. Forget science, he just wants to drill the hell out of another planet looking for oil. Dubya Eenturprices is also probably, upon any discovery of life, declare war on it just so W Junior can see a nuclear bomb go off without greenpeace going nuts. Dont even get me started on Iraq either..

Ill just say this: if you're going to bomb the living daylights out of someplace and kill your followers in the process, maybe it ISNT such a good idea to rebuild the damn country right over the bodies and rubble. Doesnt that sound a little ridiculous to anyone else?

Okay, Im getting off my soap box and getting out of here.

-Ray

[Sorrowsong]

Ill just say this: if you're going to bomb the living daylights out of someplace and kill your followers in the process, maybe it ISNT such a good idea to rebuild the damn country right over the bodies and rubble. Doesnt that sound a little ridiculous to anyone else?
-Ray

Although you may be against the idea of rebuilding Iraq, I think it would be good in the long run if we fixed it before another dictator took over.

As for the space deal, I would prefer that we didn't focus on going there right now. Our country is in serious trouble of killing its own economy, we're in way over our heads with debts. We don't need to spend more money while we already have to pay back what we owe. Blah... Would somebody please assassinate Bush if he winds up running a second term?

[chriz]

It's a strange proposition to consider. How do you know they DIDN'T fake the moonlanding?

I don't know for sure, but very few of the arguments in favor of it being faked stand up to much scrutiny. (http://www.lunaranomalies.c om/fake-moon.htm)

[kat]

I got the following from a Seti@home forum that I sometimes chat around.

In its pre-coverage of the State of the Empire speech, one CNBC correspondent wondered why there was no mention of Bush's space initiative in the advance copy of the speech. Another answered him, quoting an un-named administration official as saying it was left out because it would cost too much, and "it was just a trial balloon, and it went over like a lead balloon."

Whether or not this is true remains to be seen. However, would you really be surprised?

[chriz]

NASA needs to die.

[LGM]

I have the luxury of being able to say that I'm happy with all this "Land on Moon and Mars" claptrap. As a human, it can only reap benefits for me. As a taxpayer, it doesn't affect me in the slightest. :D

[Skull Cowboy]

i honestly think Bush needs to settle issues here on earth before he tackles the lunar and martian alien hate crimes...:p

[kat]

The dumb thing is that Bush will have no part in this. This reminds me of Gore's "I invented the internet" crap. "Durr, I'm gonna send men to the moon! Beat that, Commies!"