For all "religions".... just a thought

[The Fallen]

First of all, you all need to have an open mind. (You all say you do or at least most of you do, so prove it)
Now,in no way am i going to preach. i am, however, going to give you all a thought. Hypothetical, if you will.
Say, solely for arguments sake, that Christianity was the one true religion. (we won't know till we get there, but agian just for arguments sake). now go further and lets say that everything the bible says is true. That would mean that what revalations says is true about Christ coming to take his true children home.
Some of you, this may not pertain to seeing as how you may not know or be that close to many Christians, but say your loved ones, your wife or husband, girlfriend or boyfriend, sisters or brothers, are believers that Jesus was who he said he was.
Say that infamous day happened and all of them were taken and the living son of God did come and take his true believers, just disappeared. The body gone but their clothes, jewelery, personal effects, everything but the person is still there.
Just for arguments sake.
Now, i know some of you just may party till the perverbail cows come home. But, if you are among the ones who would be losing someone (if it is true), just imagine how that kind of thing would effect the world, would effect the countries you live in, how it would effect you.
Just think on that. Just a thought.
ok, i now return you to your regularly scheduled mundane lives.

[LV426]

First of all, you all need to have an open mind. (You all say you do or at least most of you do, so prove it)
Now,in no way am i going to preach. i am, however, going to give you all a thought. Hypothetical, if you will.
Say, solely for arguments sake, that Christianity was the one true religion. (we won't know till we get there, but agian just for arguments sake). now go further and lets say that everything the bible says is true. That would mean that what revalations says is true about Christ coming to take his true children home.
Some of you, this may not pertain to seeing as how you may not know or be that close to many Christians, but say your loved ones, your wife or husband, girlfriend or boyfriend, sisters or brothers, are believers that Jesus was who he said he was.
Say that infamous day happened and all of them were taken and the living son of God did come and take his true believers, just disappeared. The body gone but their clothes, jewelery, personal effects, everything but the person is still there.
Just for arguments sake.
Now, i know some of you just may party till the perverbail cows come home. But, if you are among the ones who would be losing someone (if it is true), just imagine how that kind of thing would effect the world, would effect the countries you live in, how it would effect you.
Just think on that. Just a thought.
ok, i now return you to your regularly scheduled mundane lives.


You've been reading those books haven't you. That second coming series.

Well if the true believers are gone that leaves more room and stuff for me. Oh and it's Proverbial not perverbail.

[GhostBat]

I have alot of Christian "friends", but I can always get new ones :shrug:

I don't have any family or close relations that are Christian, but if for some reason I did, and Jesus really did come down and take his "children," I'd gladly worship satan. No merciful G/god would do such a heinous crime.

Think about it like this:
Would a loving and forgiving father abandon his son/daughter because he/she made a "mistake"?

But like I said, I don't have anyone close to me who are Christian, so if Jesus really did come down and take all the believers to heaven, I'd party my ass of and thank God (hehe) that I don't have to deal with any more bible thumpers trying to stuff their beliefs down my throat.

Note: Ghost Bat is extremely bitter from having to pretend to be a Christian just to get a quality private education. Take no offense.

[DarkWolf]

I sort of agree with Ghostbat. If God did take the believers away to heaven, I'm happy for them: they get Heaven. But still here on Earth, what would really change? Maybe nothing, maybe everything, maybe chaos. Personally I would not be affected: for the believers heaven would be a fantastic place. I still wouldn't change. My dislike for religion is not about whether it is true or not: it is that I don't care and think God of that religion is worthless really.

But then, if we are all his children, why does he take only the believers? What of those who have harmed nobody, and simply choose to not care about deities to find faith in themselves first? What about the heroes who save lives? Simply because they don't believe or trust with all their heart, they must remain on Earth to later die and be sent to Hell? Seems cruel, in my opinion. We are all born of sin. Unless we follow the religion to show repentence or shame or something of those sins, we'll be sent to Hell: why? Gods had us be born, God is master of nature, and our reproduction. He chose to give us sex and he designed the bodies in the first place to make it pleasurable: Lucifer didn't do that, he hasn't power of the body like that, he didn't create the human body. And yet... we are supposed to say sorry for how God made us? No, I don't agree with that, and for those who are like me and don't think they should be sorry for His choices are all damned to Hell.... That is cruel, and overly egotistical... I would rather burn in Hell for eternity then give myself to such a God.

[blueeyes]

Hell was the place without god; it's only a reitteration by Dark Age's humans who thought up the concept of a burning darkness. Hell was in fact only a place without god, a wasteland, admittedly, but not a physical one. The concept was that disbelievers wanted a place without god, and since god was either merciful or fair (I don't get it, either), he/she/it then decided they would get what they wanted, nothing more or less.

Anyway, I'd be quite content. Excluded a few moron's assured that they were in fact going to hell no matter what they did and no longer caring for their actions, nothing would change. And since Bush claims to be born again, we'd be down yet another problem.

[ArcaneWolf]

First of all, you all need to have an open mind. (You all say you do or at least most of you do, so prove it)
Now,in no way am i going to preach. i am, however, going to give you all a thought. Hypothetical, if you will.
Say, solely for arguments sake, that Christianity was the one true religion. (we won't know till we get there, but agian just for arguments sake). now go further and lets say that everything the bible says is true. That would mean that what revalations says is true about Christ coming to take his true children home.
Some of you, this may not pertain to seeing as how you may not know or be that close to many Christians, but say your loved ones, your wife or husband, girlfriend or boyfriend, sisters or brothers, are believers that Jesus was who he said he was.
Say that infamous day happened and all of them were taken and the living son of God did come and take his true believers, just disappeared. The body gone but their clothes, jewelery, personal effects, everything but the person is still there.
Just for arguments sake.
Now, i know some of you just may party till the perverbail cows come home. But, if you are among the ones who would be losing someone (if it is true), just imagine how that kind of thing would effect the world, would effect the countries you live in, how it would effect you.
Just think on that. Just a thought.
ok, i now return you to your regularly scheduled mundane lives.

I hate those second coming books!

But hey if all the christians were gone, a bunch of us could have a church burning party :) Just think of all the fun and mayhem :beerchug:

[Kirin Fenrir]

Most pagan religions refer to the afterlife as the "Summerland", or, an Earth-like place where it's always summer, and there's no death or despair. Which is about the same description given to the first layer of Hell, where "virtuous pagans" are supposed to end up.

Sounds good to me. We can walk around naked; eat, drink and be merry for all eternity? In that case, you can keep "heaven."

[Wraywolf]

It's probably full of hippes anyway.

[The Fallen]

thankyou all for tuning in. like i said and will continue to say, this is just something you may want to ponder on. im not trying to preach here, jsut open up your mind to the "what if". also, i will say agian that we won't know the truth until we get there, where ever "there" is.
Lycanthropic howl- thank you for the spelling lesson. much appreciated. and yes, i have read some of them, but no thats not why i posted this thread. i did so because this is straight from my heart. (long story)
Ghost bat- i take no offence for your bitter resentments of having to pretend (though i do ask why) to be a Christian.
and to both you and Dark Wolf--- God/ Jesus isn't leaving you or any one else behind simply for making a mistake. He is doing so (again, if it is real) because you (or whoever) denied Jesus for who he said he was.
and the whole idea of partying when all the true church is gone... well, though you are welcome to state your own oppinion, (i may not agree with what you say, but i will defend your right to say it with my diing breath. ) i feel hurt that you wouldn't even take a moment of silent respect to acknowledge their disappearence. but again you are welcome to state your own oppinions. this is after all a free country (well USA is, not iraq, where i am stationed)

[The Fallen]

It's probably full of hippes anyway.


only you would think of something like that. funny.

but take into consideration that when/ if the whole thing is true, then that means God will be making a "new jeruselem", after all is said and done. and this place is gonna leave rome, atlantis, egypt, and the US in the dust. all roads will lead there. there will be no night, no sun.
all the animals will be tame, the lion will rest with the lamb, the bear will be as tame as a kitten. all wilderness will once again claim its rightful place.

personally, i can't wait to see if it is true...
something else to ponder. say it is true... wouldn't you rather fight the good fight and recieve the rewards, than live the way that is filled with cheap thrills and be punished afterward?


are there any parents out there?

[LycanSpectre]

:shrug:
Ive said it before: I dont think "God" is nearly as bigoted and closed minded as most people think. I think its the religous orginizations that make all that shit up. In my opinion Armageddon, the Apocalypse and all that is something the PEOPLE made up to keep other people in line. Do what we say, you will get good things. Do anything else and you will suffer eternally. Uh yeah.... And uh.... we are the only ones who can talk to god.

Sounds like a sure bid to control teeming masses..... Anyone who chooses to obey a different authority displeases the origional authority, thus the rule that there is only one true way to heaven or whatever.

I like to think for myself, so I dont claim any religion as my own, I make up my mind according to what makes sense to ME.

[GhostBat]

To answer your question unhindered, the reason I have to pretend to be a Christian is so I can go to my school. Since it is a private school, they can accept and decline whomever they wish, and they don't want "non-believers" going there. I pretend to be a Christian so I can go to this school, which offers a wonderful education, with each graduating student gaining thousands of dollars in scholarships. Aside from that, if I was accepted despite the fact that I am a "non-believer," I would have to defend my own beliefs around every turn, as they would no doubt try to convert me to their beliefs. It would make my school an uncomfortable environment, which I don't wish to deal with.

As for those rejecting Christ, that to me would be considered a "mistake," if all of this was true. There are thousands of religions in the world, and by wanting to do good and choosing the "wrong" religion, one would still be "punished?" Jesus claims to be a fair and merciful God, but it appears not to be so.

[The Fallen]

Ghost bat, i am severly sorry to hear that the school you attend is administerd by some of the many blathering idiots who call themselves Christian. It has been my experience with many establishments/ resteraunts, churches and even schools/ that consider it bad form to be anything other than a conformist. In todays society, it is becomming more and more frequent I'm afraid to say.
---I had a freind once who went to a church after his girl friend broke up with him after a 2 year long relationship. He was Christian, and sought some guidance after the ordeal. He wasn't feeling particularly like dressing up, so he went in a t-shirt and corderoys (sp). it was one of those Christian t-shirts even, and the people were out and out rude to him, just for dressing the way that was comfortable to him. All he was looking for was some guidance, a little sympathy maybe, and all he got was a bunch of crap. so i can see where you are coming from. it doesn't look good for us Christians to have some old school conformists dictating the way people should act, the way they should dress, and even what they should believe.
now, i could see if it was a Christian school, but if they don't have it in the name then what is the point in being that way?
way back in the early 1500s and even before, it was illegal for a commoner to have any religous article in there dwelling. a guy called Guttenburg (i believe, im not sure) was one of the first to print and distribute the bible. he was of course punished for this. but the idea was that if you weren't of royal birth or not a man of God (a pastor) or ejumucated enough to read and speak latin, then you weren't worthy to have a bible. But that all goes with my theory of catholocism. i won't get into that here though. it is highly controversial, and could insight many arguments.

[kat]

unhindered, not all Christians are idiots, and not all idiots are Christians. It's hard to take you (or anyone else for that matter) seriously if you're going to make such hugely inane generalizations and go absolutely no where with them.

[Wolffy13]

I'm guessing you are in the military, unhindered. If that's accurate, you have my respect and support. My husband and I have been reflecting deeply upon the sacrifices soldiers these days, and in the past, have had to make.

The statement that God would only take his true believers would be accurate. If you truly desired to find the truth, you would find it. Not to mention, you can always ask, but the tricky part is to have complete faith. Understandibly, that can be difficult.

I, myself, do believe in the Second Coming. I often fear that I am not good enough to be taken with Him. Perhaps, that's just me being my own worst critic, who knows. If I was left behind, I honestly don't believe life would be the same, it would be worse. Not only would I not have the people I love the most, but the surrounding environment would turn into, basically, "Hell on Earth". Think about it. The gangs, the theives, the rapists, the murderers, those who manipulate and what have you, would still be here. Mormons believe in 3 levels of heaven, and from my understanding, life here would be like the lowest level of heaven.

That's what I think would happen. unhindered is right though. We'll know beyond a shadow of a doubt what the truth is when it happens.

[The Fallen]

kat, with all do respect, i thought i was going some where. i have the utmost faith, that what i am hinting at in a most non-subtle way, is that i beleive this is going to happen with all of my mind, body, heart, and soul. i am not saying all Christians are idiots, or that all idiots are Christians. i am saying that i meet to many people who say they are Christian, and then they go around being WAY to pushy for most peoples tastes, including mine and im a Christian. i am almost positive, that WHEN this happens, i will be among the ones gone. (ok Wraywolf, you can start dancing for joy now, just kidding)
I was merely beginning this thread with the intent to get some nonbelievers to think "what if it does happen, do i want to be here to endure the 7 bowls of wrath?"

[kat]

unhindered, a man can go no where of value in a logical world if his thoughts are based purely on generalizations. You've tried to rationalize them, but they still remain generalizations.

Are you aware of the hundreds of permutations belonging to Christianity as a whole? It is one thing to make a social suggestion about a singular denomination perhaps belonging to a specified area, but you are making a generalization about an .entire. .freaking. .religion. Bad idea.

And just so you know, and I don't mean this to be demeaning (I just have obsessive compulsive tendencies about certain things), but the phrase is, "with all due respect".

[LycanSpectre]

I was merely beginning this thread with the intent to get some nonbelievers to think "what if it does happen, do i want to be here to endure the 7 bowls of wrath?"

You may want to rephrase that. That could be taken as an attempt to convert "non-believers". Many people here do not take kindly to that sort of behaviour, myself included.

[The Fallen]

it wasn't my intention to make any generlizations. i simply wanted to make the point that there are many people out there who claim to be Christians that are exactly like that. these people are trying to push their beliefs. now as for denominations... yes there are many. i go to a baptist church when im at home, but i have different veiws than most baptists. i wasn't trying to make a generlization. im sorry if i worded my thoughts wrong. im am after all only part human. (don't ask, long story)

[The Fallen]

im only trying to point out that "what if" point. im not trying to convert anyone, or preach. this isnt the spanish inquisition. at least i don't think it is.
im sorry if you feel that im trying to "push" my beliefs on you. im sincerely not. i just wanted to make any non beleivers see that IF there is something to be thought about they might want to take the time to think about it.

[Tempest]

I would be as stubborn as I always have been. I refuse to believe in anything out of fear, which is what the Rapture's point is. Beware, for if you aren't Christian when the Rapture comes, you will be in Helll!!!!!
As for friends, no one I care dearly for is severly Christian. My parents may be, but they don't even go to church every week. Only on Christmas Eve. <sarcasm>As for me, I won't be sucked up with everyone else. I'll just enjoy pillaging the shops while all the suckers are playing happily in Heaven.</sarcasm>
On the point of whether God would or wouldn't take up all his "true believers" (whatever "true" is), why the heck would a so-called "forgiving" and "merciful" (sorry for all the quotations) God eternally punish anyone? He is said to forgive you before you even ask for forgiveness. So why would anyone not be forgiven? Just a thought.
EDIT - By the way, unhindered, if you have something to add to a post, you do not have to add yet another post to the board. All you have to do is click the edit button on the bottom of your post, and type the extra. Then click save changes. It's simple.

[The Fallen]

EDIT - By the way, unhindered, if you have something to add to a post, you do not have to add yet another post to the board. All you have to do is click the edit button on the bottom of your post, and type the extra. Then click save changes. It's simple.



thank you for the lesson, though the extra post was for LycanSpectre. i just forgot who it was that i was addressing and didn't want my signals to be crossed. thats what i do in the army btw, i work with all the communications equipment. and with all that stuff, if i get my signals crossed i get into some pretty deep crap (needless to say)

[LycanSpectre]

im only trying to point out that "what if" point. im not trying to convert anyone, or preach. this isnt the spanish inquisition. at least i don't think it is.
im sorry if you feel that im trying to "push" my beliefs on you. im sincerely not. i just wanted to make any non beleivers see that IF there is something to be thought about they might want to take the time to think about it.

Its ok, I was just trying to point out how that statement could have been interpreted to people senstive about thier beliefs. I dont feel preached at or like you are pushing your beliefs on anyone. I was just trying to avert a flame war. :)

[The Fallen]

I was just trying to avert a flame war. :)


thank you for doing so. that would be the last thing i would want to do here. i am way outnumbered for one, and 2- im out ammo'd. :shrug:

but agian, the point i am trying to make is that even if you take just a fleeting, passing moment to think about "what if", then there is a part of you that i can have an intelligent conversation with. and if some of you aren't sure what you believe, pm me and ask anything you want.
as for being "touchy" about your religion, i can't blame you. When i was in AIT (army thing), i was the only Christian. every one else was either wiccan, pagan(don't know the diff, but they said there was), or atheist. i was WAY outnumbered there.so i know where yer comin from

[kat]

I think it might be interesting to one day have a thread where everyone sits down and calmly (and intelligently) explains and compares their religions.

It's not going to actually happen, but it would be nice. :)

[Wraywolf]

something else to ponder. say it is true... wouldn't you rather fight the good fight and recieve the rewards, than live the way that is filled with cheap thrills and be punished afterward?
Chap thrills? What… You mean like… Gay sex? Is that a cheap thrill?

Honestly, I’d rather live a sinful life of self-decay and debauchery then a ‘virtuous’ life of extreme boredom, self repression, and annoying the hell out of others with pamphlets. This would be true even if God and Jesus were real entities, because I disagree with the moral structure of Christianity, and most other major religions. The basic rules of not hurting others without need are things I agree with, but when it starts talking about how I should think, the answer is no. If I go to hell for being my own person, then I’ll burn without regret. Maybe I’ll buy Satan a couple of beers. Who knows? It may end up back at his pad for some crazy loud abomination!

[McKitty]

The what if you're suggesting is the "What If So-and-So got to go to heaven because they believed in a man dying ever so long ago and I'm stuck here on Earth because apparently what I grew up in and even though I'm a decent and true type of gal ...I get screwed over"

Doesn't make it seem like I'd give them any sympathy or time of day. Then again, I'm a little nutball Jewish girl and I don't believe in that end of the world theroy. To me: we're a video game and sooner or later, God's gonna get bored.

((Sorry about the pull back to the main point but my 'net went all hayway the last week))

[Musashi]

Just bear with me on this one. All my life I was raised in church, Non-Denominational/Pentecost to be exact, and it was crazy. I mean, we went to two Sunday church services and one Wednesday night service. Hard core. Around the time when I turned 17, I started to question alot of my core beliefs and things that were pounded into me as a young child. At 18, I left home and joined the military, which really changed me for a better person. I experienced all kinds of religion. I was in basic when Sept 11 happened. So I was trying to experience all kinds of religion at that time. Now at 21, I never go to church, and am all around a bad christian. But my fundamental beliefs in Christ and everything is still the same. I still carry a cross in my wallet. I guess what I am trying to say is, no matter how far I wander, I am always in the same place as I began.

[ArcaneWolf]

I guess what I am trying to say is, no matter how far I wander, I am always in the same place as I began.

for some people that might mean a return to pagan beliefs for christianity and Islam were often forced upon others in the past.

[Hellcat]

Hells bells unhindered. I must say that you certainly got your wish. I can't believe that you've actually got several non-christians to read your message and give you an opinion, you've actually got us to think about christianity. Further more nobody has started off the 'bitch off christianity' flow that usually finds its way onto these types of threads. Big acievemnet gal (or is it guy?) Congrats :buttrock:

My thoughts. I don't know many christians, even few that actually take their so called religion seriously. Ok there's maybe 2 chaps I reckon would fit into 'God's world'. If they went, they would be the happiest people not on Earth. Me, I'd sit down here on Earth, with a few of my buddies and drink to the occassion- I guess it would be kinda like your friend getting accepted into university, something that requires a celebration. On the other hand would the big guy upstairs, if he really exists, would he seriously punish his most faithful followers by taking them away from the people they love? They may love God, but they love their family & friends. I guess that would be the only question on Gods exam paper for these perfect christians. In all seriousness, how many of God's faithful subjects would want to follow god into a place of great rewards? How many of them would prefer to stand at the side of their lesser/non christian commrades and support them through their existence of...punishment? What would you do if you were one of Gods chosen ones?

[LupineShaman]

First off, Christianity has already admitted to being created as a method of "controling the Pagan Hords" a very long time ago. Now Christ may have lived, died, come back, and healed all those people and done those awsome things. MAY HAVE. I wouldn't doubt that along the line of time a person with such powerful spiritual energy would be born. It probably happens every few thousand years. But the Earth based religions came long before. They were the first, the original. Christ and his followers came long after. But, like I said, if Christ did walk the Earth and was as powerful as the bible claims, it is also possible that his soul has not moved on. And in that case it is also possible that he could take his believers to paradise (which would mean killing every last person that believes in him as a diety (think about it before you get mad, it is true)). But that is a lot of hearsay and maybe's. I am not putting Christianity down, but it needs to stop thinking it is so high and mighty. It is the youngest religion around and claims to be the original. News Flash: We know you're lieing. And this may be a low blow, but, it also doesn't help to have your priests doing what they have been doing to little children.

[Hellcat]

First off, Christianity has already admitted to being created as a method of "controling the Pagan Hords" a very long time ago. Now Christ may have lived, died, come back, and healed all those people and done those awsome things. MAY HAVE. I wouldn't doubt that along the line of time a person with such powerful spiritual energy would be born. It probably happens every few thousand years. But the Earth based religions came long before. They were the first, the original. Christ and his followers came long after. But, like I said, if Christ did walk the Earth and was as powerful as the bible claims, it is also possible that his soul has not moved on. And in that case it is also possible that he could take his believers to paradise (which would mean killing every last person that believes in him as a diety (think about it before you get mad, it is true)). But that is a lot of hearsay and maybe's. I am not putting Christianity down, but it needs to stop thinking it is so high and mighty. It is the youngest religion around and claims to be the original. News Flash: We know you're lieing. And this may be a low blow, but, it also doesn't help to have your priests doing what they have been doing to little children.


And in reflection to the title of this thread- what exactly are your feelings of all the good christians going with their Saviour to the big paradise place? Do you not have any Christian friends? Do you have friends at all :D okay forget my smart ass comments, I'm just pointing out that this thread began with a hyperthetical scenario. God comes down points to Fred and Barney, tells them they are his must faithful follwers and drags them off to some place of glory. Imagine if you Fred and Barney are members of your family, or your friends. How would you feel IF such a thing ever happened? We are humouring the concept (well I am anyway, I already know that the only true god is me and I wouldn't bring pull such an evil trick on any of my follwers). Also we are trying to keep this a friendly discussion *trying* so be nice :)

[LOBO REY]

To tell you the truth I'm probely goinig to Hell regardles of how much I'm loyal to Uno Cierto Dios (One True God). And I am very loyal, I grew up knowing I'm a penacostal but not learing any thing 'cause the sermons were in spanish. It was years later I found God on my own, and learned what a real Penacostal was. Now I could care less that many Christains are wrong because of the Catholic "Traditions" that they stop paying attention to the Jewish people and faith. And that Every other relgion in the world is trying to denouce christ. I'm just waiting for all out WAR. Then the real fun begins. Like I said proble go to Hell.

[Hellcat]

To tell you the truth I'm probely goinig to Hell regardles of how much I'm loyal to Uno Cierto Dios (One True God). And I am very loyal, I grew up knowing I'm a penacostal but not learing any thing 'cause the sermons were in spanish. It was years later I found God on my own, and learned what a real Penacostal was. Now I could care less that many Christains are wrong because of the Catholic "Traditions" that they stop paying attention to the Jewish people and faith. And that Every other relgion in the world is trying to denouce christ. I'm just waiting for all out WAR. Then the real fun begins. Like I said proble go to Hell.

Well, since I'm a non believer, I guess that means I won't be going to heaven or hell. I'll get shoved in the ground and its lights out for me. Peace and quiet for all eternity, and oblivious to anything- that sounds like my idea of a good afterlife- being ignorant to it :D