Jesus Christ

[reppinthelord]

You gotta see what life looks like whan Christ gets to it.



There is not a hint of one person who was afraid to draw near to Jesus. There were those who mocked him. There were those who were envious of him. There were those who misunderstood him. But there was not one person who who considered him too holy, too divine to touch. There was not one person who was reluctant to approach him for fear of being rejected.

What God did makes sense. It makes sense that Jesus would be our sacrifice because a sacrifice was needed to justify mans presence. But why God did it does not make sense. Every soul that he created disobeyed him.Yet he still died to give us a second chance. That type of love isn't logical. Only God could love like that.

[LycanSpectre]

Its interesting thats his first post. This does not bode well.

Was that meant to start a discussion or just to irritate people?

[kat]

I think I'll give him a chance and just see where this goes. At this point, it's no more than benign.

[Darth Cluich]

At this point, it's no more than benign.

My guess is that the proselytizing of the conquistadors began as benign, too, and look how that turned out. ;)

[kat]

Yes, but this is an internet discussion board. He's allowed to say such things. :) The great thing about Werewolf.com is the assortment of opinions and views on things. I have no idea what to expect, and I'm going to give the chance for a valid discussion to form rather than squelch all chances.

That's what we're here for, right?

[MorganaFang]

What God did makes sense. It makes sense that Jesus would be our sacrifice because a sacrifice was needed to justify mans presence. But why God did it does not make sense. Every soul that he created disobeyed him.Yet he still died to give us a second chance. That type of love isn't logical. Only God could love like that.

Actually to me this whole thing doesn't makes sense at all. How can we prove Jesus was our actual savior and an actual son of God. (or even as some believe Jesus was God himself).
I've never held much stock in the bible because, I percieve all stories as the greatest joke of our being. Simply because though they may not be true literally if left to interpetation they can indeed be proven true. Heh many heated debates over that one (don't ever scuff really loud in public when someone says the "Bible is absolute truth".

And I've got another question why would there be a god like that who would DO things like that? What about "God's" other creations, don't they apply here too? Or does God just a human god. I mean thats always frustrated me about this whole thing, humans begin to behave like animals and they are sinning thus need to be saved. Animals behave like animals and they are pretty much ignored.

[MexicanJewLizard]

And I've got another question why would there be a god like that who would DO things like that? What about "God's" other creations, don't they apply here too? Or does God just a human god. I mean thats always frustrated me about this whole thing, humans begin to behave like animals and they are sinning thus need to be saved. Animals behave like animals and they are pretty much ignored.

Because in the biblical sense, humans are the only ones with souls, and animals don't need to be taken cared of... spiritually that is.

[J.L.R.]

Actually to me this whole thing doesn't makes sense at all. How can we prove Jesus was our actual savior and an actual son of God. (or even as some believe Jesus was God himself).
I've never held much stock in the bible because, I percieve all stories as the greatest joke of our being. Simply because though they may not be true literally if left to interpetation they can indeed be proven true. Heh many heated debates over that one (don't ever scuff really loud in public when someone says the "Bible is absolute truth".

And I've got another question why would there be a god like that who would DO things like that? What about "God's" other creations, don't they apply here too? Or does God just a human god. I mean thats always frustrated me about this whole thing, humans begin to behave like animals and they are sinning thus need to be saved. Animals behave like animals and they are pretty much ignored.

Most if not all the accounts in the Bible have historical proof, even the global flood. Jesus Christ was a real person, and his life wasn't only documented by followers, but also by the historian Flavius Josephus, who was not a follower. Muslims believe in Christ, but not as the Son of God, but a prophet. Buddists, see Christ as a good man. The only real question though is, was Jesus Christ the Son of God. What of course leads one to believe so, is the fullfillment of prophetic scriptures. I could give a whole bunch, but this isn't the arguement.

Also Christianity speaking, Christ was both the Son of God, as well as God. There is God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. At first this seems awful confusing, because we don't worship 3 seperate gods, but One God with three personalities. YOu will be less confused by thinking of God this way, Father = Mind, Son = Flesh, Holy Spirit = Soul. One can not exist with out the other.

As for animals. God does not have to deal with animals, since they didn't reject their creation. Man was the only creature in all of God's creation who rejected his purpose.

God placed man in charge of taking care of them, thus it is man's responsibility to take care of this Earth, of which dispells the myth that the Bible alieviates man of responsibility to keep this world nice.

Oh well...there is my statement for the day...

[Wolffy13]

I pretty much agree with J.L.R.. Did you know that astronomers have been able to determine the exact day that Jesus Christ was born (or died, it's been awhile since I heard this news). Evidence is slowly turning up for things like this, in the meantime, it's all about your faith. What do you believe and don't believe?

I think animals would be exempt from such judgement because they don't have the concepts of good and bad, nice and mean, stuff like that, like we do. We know better. They do it to survive, it's all they know. We know you don't have to be nasty to get through life OK. Not to mention, we have things like civilization and society.

reppinthelord is right though. The unconditional love a god (or goddess if you swing that way) is pretty awe-inspiring. Kind of makes your head hurt to think about it.

[kat]

Sorry, Wolffy, but all ideas on the "exact" date of Christ's birth is pure speculation. Read for yourself:

http://astrology.about.com/library/weekly/aa121799b.htm

If God's love were unconditional, there wouldn't be conditions for getting into heaven. Reality is that there is an entire book of conditions.

[kaycee]

Sorry, Wolffy, but all ideas on the "exact" date of Christ's birth is pure speculation. Read for yourself:

http://astrology.about.com/library/weekly/aa121799b.htm

If God's love were unconditional, there wouldn't be conditions for getting into heaven. Reality is that there is an entire book of conditions.


There are way too many conditions and rules. Not only to go to heaven, but just to go to church. It's insane. It's too compulsive a way of life for me. It's best to just think for yourself and be a good person. That'll get you to heaven, if you believe in heaven. If you don't believe in heaven, you'll die knowing you were a good person. That should be good enough, rather than spend your entire life compulsivly doing what the bible or church leaders tell you to do. I consider it brainwashing.

[kat]

Apparently brainwashing is the best way to run a corporation (which is what the Catholic Church is in a nutshell).

[reppinthelord]

Hey, what up yall? ok, first of all im a girl.

Morganfang- youre right there is no exact proofthat jesus was the son of god.take this into consideration- Everyone of Jesus' diciples (except one who killed himself because he denied Jesus) went on after he was crucified and preached about God's word.And every one was martyred for their faith in Jesus. How could you die for something you knew wasnt true? Jesus said he would rise from the dead and he came to his diciples and told them to continue spreading his word. They did as he said and were willing to die for Jesus just as he died for them.

There is also a prophesy of Jesus' death in Isaiah 53 which was written 800 B.C. way before jesus came to earth.

kat- thanks for standing up for me but youve got to realize that if everyone went to heaven when we die,for God to force people to go to heaven, wouldnt be heaven, it would be hell. God hates evil, it wasnt his decision to bring it into this world. God gave us freedom and by doing that he gave humans the opportunity to make wrong choices. If God gave us what we deserved we would be in trouble. We shouldnt ask God for justice, we need to ask him for mercy.

anyway, take care and God Bless

[MorganaFang]

Hey, what up yall? ok, first of all im a girl.

Morganfang- youre right there is no exact proofthat jesus was the son of god.take this into consideration- Everyone of Jesus' diciples (except one who killed himself because he denied Jesus) went on after he was crucified and preached about God's word.And every one was martyred for their faith in Jesus. How could you die for something you knew wasnt true? Jesus said he would rise from the dead and he came to his diciples and told them to continue spreading his word. They did as he said and were willing to die for Jesus just as he died for them.


Were you there? Did you see all this? How do you know this is true?

[kaycee]

Were you there? Did you see all this? How do you know this is true?


I'd say she's going by what she has been taught to believe. It's her faith.

[MorganaFang]

I'd say she's going by what she has been taught to believe. It's her faith.

And what of us that don't have faith? (I'm in a questioning mood)

[kaycee]

And what of us that don't have faith? (I'm in a questioning mood)


You got me chick. I have no faith in that sort of thing. But, I do find it interesting that so many do. I wish I believed in God. I've tried my best to grasp some sort of logic but...I guess I just don't have it in me. I do envy those who do. It has to be very comforting.

[J.L.R.]

There is no brainwashing in true Christianity. After all, unlike many religions around the world, you can't be raised Christian. Just because your parent's are Christians, doesn't make you one. You choose to become a Christian. You don't get to choose when you are brainwashed, and that is the point of brainwashing, to get rid of free will.

God's unconditional love means, He is willing to save anyone who cries for His help. He states this in John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave his only Begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on Him, should not parish, but have everlasting life."

According to Christian thinking, humanity is drowning in sin, death is only a breath away. God searches frantically to save them, but the humans have to cry out to be found. Just like the verse in Amazing Grace, in which the songwriter wrote, "I was lost, but now I am found."

Also historically Jesus Christ was a real person. His life isn't only recorded in the 4 Gospels, but also by the non-believer Flavius Josephus. His existance isn't a matter of question, just His deity.
We believe He is the Christ, because His life fullfilled Scriptures written in the Old Testement. The comparisons is quite striking.

Also the rules in the Bible are there not to control you, but protect you.
I mean it is like the chain smoker, dying of lung cancer, on an oxygen machine, saying that smoking isn't bad. Or the alcoholic, whose lost his family, home, friends, and liver, saying drinking is okay.
The Bible teaches you to respect your body, respect authority, respect nature, respect other's culture, and especially to respect God Himself.

It is always amazing to see the News state something has now been proven bad for you, that the Bible stated thousands of years ago.
What makes people dislike the Bible, is the fact that it makes them responsible for their actions, that is, if you take the whole Bible into context, and not just a verse here or there.

[MorganaFang]

Also the rules in the Bible are there not to control you, but protect you.
I mean it is like the chain smoker, dying of lung cancer, on an oxygen machine, saying that smoking isn't bad. Or the alcoholic, whose lost his family, home, friends, and liver, saying drinking is okay.
The Bible teaches you to respect your body, respect authority, respect nature, respect other's culture, and especially to respect God Himself.

It is always amazing to see the News state something has now been proven bad for you, that the Bible stated thousands of years ago.
What makes people dislike the Bible, is the fact that it makes them responsible for their actions, that is, if you take the whole Bible into context, and not just a verse here or there.

See theres my point with interpetations.

[LV426]

Hey, what up yall? ok, first of all im a girl.

Morganfang- youre right there is no exact proofthat jesus was the son of god.take this into consideration- Everyone of Jesus' diciples (except one who killed himself because he denied Jesus) went on after he was crucified and preached about God's word.And every one was martyred for their faith in Jesus. How could you die for something you knew wasnt true? Jesus said he would rise from the dead and he came to his diciples and told them to continue spreading his word. They did as he said and were willing to die for Jesus just as he died for them.

There is also a prophesy of Jesus' death in Isaiah 53 which was written 800 B.C. way before jesus came to earth.

kat- thanks for standing up for me but youve got to realize that if everyone went to heaven when we die,for God to force people to go to heaven, wouldnt be heaven, it would be hell. God hates evil, it wasnt his decision to bring it into this world. God gave us freedom and by doing that he gave humans the opportunity to make wrong choices. If God gave us what we deserved we would be in trouble. We shouldnt ask God for justice, we need to ask him for mercy.

anyway, take care and God Bless

The thing is Rep, that just because Jesus' disciples believed that he was the son of god did not make them right. Every religion speaks of a son of god ( or deity of choice) coming to earth to help the innocent and teach of their religion and beliefs. Christianity is a comparitively young religion. It's base lies in other religions that came before it. In fact if you look at the christian holiday schedule and even certain "biblical" events you will find records of similar events and celebrations at the same time in other religion.

Now I believe that Jesus lived and worked and preached and believed himself to be the son of God. But what else could he believe? His parents told him from the time he was born that he was a gift from god. What pressure ya know. So he tried to live up to that image and believed in it so much that he spread the word of god to others and created a great following. It is easy to convince people to join a club, in fact these days they call it the 700 Club. Imagine that.

So the thing is that Jesus' disciples believed in god and Jesus. They believed they and others like them were right and so they died for what they believe in. There are other though that have done the same. Let us go back to Waco texas.

David Koresh took control of the Branch Davidians and began a rule under the name of God. There were occasions when David Koresh enforced discipline among his followers the hard way. One of his handpicked lieutenants would paddle the rule breakers with an oar on which were inscribed the words IT IS WRITTEN. In the manner of cult leaders before him, Koresh held sway largely through means that were both more subtle and more degrading. Food was rationed in unpredictable ways. And while the men were subjected to an uneasy celibacy. Koresh took their wives and daughters as his concubines.

And for anyone who though it odd that a holy man lived out a teenage boy's sexual fantasy, Koresh had a mangled theological rationale. He was Jesus Christ in sinful form, who because he indulged the flesh could judge mankind with insights that the first, more virtuous Messiah had lacked. Or as he put in one of his harangues to the faithful: "Now what better sinner can know a sinner than a godly sinner? Huh?"

Having convinced his followers that he was the messiah. Koresh went on the persuade them that because his seed was divine, only he had the right to procreate. Even as Koresh bedded their wives and daughters-some as young as 11-in his comfortable private bedroom on the second floor, the men were confined to their dormitory downstairs. In addition to the paddlings, administered in a utility area called the spanking room, offenders could be forced down into a pit of raw sewage, then not allowed to bathe.

A 51-day stand-off between sect members and the FBI ensued and ended on April 19 when the complex was tear-gassed and a fire engulfed the building. Eighty Branch Davidians died, either in the fire or from gunfire. The dead included their 33-year-old leader David Koresh and 17 children.

Think about it rep, everyone of those people believed that Koresh was the messiah and they were willing to die for his cause and their beliefs and some of them did.

How about more recently. 9-11. Those men from the Al Queda believed in their cause, enough to die and take others with them to support their beliefs.


You say that God did not make the decision to bring evil unto the world? Then you obviously have not read your Bible very well. According to christian doctrine god created everything and that includes evil. He gave humans free-will upon their creation but he did not have to create evil and release it upon the earth. That was his decision and his alone for only god has power over his own creations. Now yes humans have free-will but according to god those decisions are confined within the bounds of god's creations. Therefore if god had not created evil then humans would not have evil as a choice of action to make and therefore there would be no evil among the human race. Sorry rep but I didn't make evil and I didn't bring it to earth and sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils in life because there is no clear cut path of good. According to your beliefs and God, he is soley responsibe for that.


I'm not a christian although I was raised southern baptist and many of my family members are christians. I respect that and don't seek to change them. I do not begrudge them the solace and comfort that their religion and belief in god has given them. But I ask the same respect of them and other christians and unfortunately very few christians allow me the freedom of choice that their god bestowed upon me.

[Wolffy13]

The thing is, the guy who ran that cult in Texas was running just that; a cult. He forced those people to believe, he manipulated like cult leaders do. I imagine these leaders are 1) fairly charismatic, at least, and 2) probably know which people to pick on. Besides, if you were going to get your ass beat everytime you questioned or spoke your mind and constantly and constantly having people tell you otherwise, your subconcious might eventually buy into it and their words would become your affirmations (we use positive affirmations in Mary Kay to convince ourselves that we can be as successful as we want). As for Jesus Christ himself, he didn't force people to believe. He did his thing and if people had faith that he was the real deal then that was great.

Sorry, Wolffy, but all ideas on the "exact" date of Christ's birth is pure speculation.

Seemed plausible. Ya' never know

If God's love were unconditional, there wouldn't be conditions for getting into heaven. Reality is that there is an entire book of conditions.

That's not necessarily so. God loves us no matter what we do, but just like life on earth, you have to deal with the consequences of your actions. If He let you get away with everything, you'd be like a spoiled kid, you'd have everything, but you haven't learned a thing.

if everyone went to heaven when we die,for God to force people to go to heaven, wouldnt be heaven, it would be hell. God hates evil, it wasnt his decision to bring it into this world. God gave us freedom and by doing that he gave humans the opportunity to make wrong choices.

I'm going to guess that other Christians besides Mormons believe in the story of how Lucifer wanted to force everyone into heaven and Jesus wanted us to be able to make the choice ourselves (I could be wrong in such a guess). Lucifer wanted everyone to make sure everyone got into heaven, he would of forced us to do everything against our will, go to church, pay tithings, heed the words of the Bible and all the whole nine yards. Jesus wanted us to have the option to choose for ourselves, which is where faith plays in, but I won't get into it because that's not the point of this thread. In a nutshell, I agree with reppinthelord on this.

Well, that's my rebuttal anyway... :)

[kat]

Excuse me, but I never said that I expected unconditional love. I was simply responding to the ridiculous notion that God provides that. I am fully aware that there are consequences to our actions, and I don't expect otherwise. I just fine with my reality that there is no God or gods, and that there is no afterlife.

However, the word unconditional means: no conditions. Everyone getting into heaven: unconditional. Only getting into heaven if you've "given your heart to Christ": conditional. Common sense, people.

[LV426]

The thing is, the guy who ran that cult in Texas was running just that; a cult. He forced those people to believe, he manipulated like cult leaders do. I imagine these leaders are 1) fairly charismatic, at least, and 2) probably know which people to pick on. Besides, if you were going to get your ass beat everytime you questioned or spoke your mind and constantly and constantly having people tell you otherwise, your subconcious might eventually buy into it and their words would become your affirmations (we use positive affirmations in Mary Kay to convince ourselves that we can be as successful as we want). As for Jesus Christ himself, he didn't force people to believe. He did his thing and if people had faith that he was the real deal then that was great.


Thing is a cult is a cult no matter if it is love and kindness that coerces or violence and force. Manipulation is still manipulation. Those people that followed Koresh could have left, when they saw how twisted he was they could have left but they stayed and put up with everything he said because he said he was the messiah. Jesus claimed the same thing, but he wasn't a violent or mean man.

[Wolffy13]

This is the thing about the internet, no one hears your tone of voice. I never meant any offense, kat. If that's how I came off, I do apologize :( .

What I meant is: God's love is unconditional, not how you get to heaven. Getting to heaven is trickier, unfortunately. You are also welcome to believe what you will. I'm merely bringing my views to the table to offer perspective.

Rather than do the whole "no, sir" "yeah-huh" thing, why don't you tell me what you believe a cult to be, Lycanthropic Howl? I guess your view and my view of the word "cult" differs.

Once again, I mean no offense at all. I like such conversations/debates. It exercises my brain. All my hubbie ever wants to talk about is video games. Not exactly intellectually and/or spiritually stimulating ;)

[Darth Cluich]

Let's face it, a cult is simply a group founded on a faith or set of spiritual beliefs. Christianity is a cult. So is Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all the rest. In popular parlance, though, the term "cult" has a bad connotation and is only applied to those faiths outside "established" religions. There's really no difference between them.

[Wolffy13]

By the definition given by the dictionary, that is correct. I guess when I hear the term though, I immediately think of the groups that have gotten the bad publicity. Granted, I will admit that I don't know the anatomy of one of these particular cults and am inspired to learn all the more about them.

Yet, as a Mormon, I will occasionally hear "Oh, you're Mormon. They're a cult, you know" and they don't mean that by terms of the dictionary. See what I'm getting at. These individuals who tell me these things believe that we are brainwashed sheep following a manipulative leader, when in fact, we are the exact opposite. That's just an example.

When I say the word "cult", I mean it by society's definition, and most people I know mean it the same way as well.

[kat]

Well, in the eyes of the government, you're a cult until you reach tax-exemption status. :) Also, if you want a good example of a cult, look at Scientology (http://www.xenu.net/). Oh, my god.

...So by forsaking someone and damning them to hell for all eternity, that's God showing his unconditional love?

[reppinthelord]

Were you there? Did you see all this? How do you know this is true?

There are actual accounts of these people. when they lived, how they died....

You got me chick. I have no faith in that sort of thing. But, I do find it interesting that so many do. I wish I believed in God. I've tried my best to grasp some sort of logic but...I guess I just don't have it in me. I do envy those who do. It has to be very comforting.

keep looking,girl. dont give up. if you really want to have a relationship with God, look for him and he will find you.
Matthew 7;7-8 "Ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you."

The thing is Rep, that just because Jesus' disciples believed that he was the son of god did not make them right. Every religion speaks of a son of god ( or deity of choice) coming to earth to help the innocent and teach of their religion and beliefs. Christianity is a comparitively young religion. It's base lies in other religions that came before it. In fact if you look at the christian holiday schedule and even certain "biblical" events you will find records of similar events and celebrations at the same time in other religion.
thats not my point. many diciples lost faith in Jesus after he died, because how could their messiah die? but he rose from the dead and came to them just as he said he would. and christianity is young? when did this happen? christianity didnt start with Jesus if thats what youre saying. and as for holidays and celebrations- most of them are pagean. Jesus wasnt born on Dec. 25 and back in his time the jewish didnt even celebrate birthdays.

You say that God did not make the decision to bring evil unto the world? Then you obviously have not read your Bible very well.
if you had read the bible you would see that satan brought evil into the world. and yes, satan was just as beautiful as any other angel in heaven, but giving the angels freedom, just as he gave us, gave them the choice to disobey God and thats what satan did. evil is necessary for a free world,free will gives humans the opportunity to make wrong choices.
...So by forsaking someone and damning them to hell for all eternity, that's God showing his unconditional love?
instead of blaming God you should ask him to have mercy on you.He gave us all a second chance with Jesus Christ. The sad thing is that many people wont take advantage of that. God wont send them to hell, theyll send themselves.

I went to church for years with my family, but never believed in God. I had never heard of being saved or having a personal relationship with God. Instead of a religion, i now have a relationship with my saviour, Jesus Christ.

[MorganaFang]

There are actual accounts of these people. when they lived, how they died....



keep looking,girl. dont give up. if you really want to have a relationship with God, look for him and he will find you.
Matthew 7;7-8 "Ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you."


thats not my point. many diciples lost faith in Jesus after he died, because how could their messiah die? but he rose from the dead and came to them just as he said he would. and christianity is young? when did this happen? christianity didnt start with Jesus if thats what youre saying. and as for holidays and celebrations- most of them are pagean. Jesus wasnt born on Dec. 25 and back in his time the jewish didnt even celebrate birthdays.


if you had read the bible you would see that satan brought evil into the world. and yes, satan was just as beautiful as any other angel in heaven, but giving the angels freedom, just as he gave us, gave them the choice to disobey God and thats what satan did. evil is necessary for a free world,free will gives humans the opportunity to make wrong choices.

instead of blaming God you should ask him to have mercy on you.He gave us all a second chance with Jesus Christ. The sad thing is that many people wont take advantage of that. God wont send them to hell, theyll send themselves.

I went to church for years with my family, but never believed in God. I had never heard of being saved or having a personal relationship with God. Instead of a religion, i now have a relationship with my saviour, Jesus Christ.

Errrrr.... Did you even read Lycan's responce?

And how can you prove the bible is accurate accounts?

[reppinthelord]

oopps, i guess i dont know how to use the quote thing.
so ill tell ya whats for who.
the first ones for morganafang
the second one is for kaycee
the third one is for lycanthropichowl
the next one is for lycan again
and the last one is for kat

sorry bout that

[Darth Cluich]

if you had read the bible you would see that satan brought evil into the world. and yes, satan was just as beautiful as any other angel in heaven, but giving the angels freedom, just as he gave us, gave them the choice to disobey God and thats what satan did. evil is necessary for a free world,free will gives humans the opportunity to make wrong choices.


Um...actually, your version of this doesn't come from the Bible -- not one bit. It's a skewed Cliff's Notes version of the Cliff's Notes to Milton's Paradise Lost. And in that, the angels weren't free, but man was, which was one of the reasons why Satan and his followers rebeled. Nowhere does the Bible tell the story of Satan's fall.

I have to wonder if you've even read the Bible yourself, or if you're simply spewing certain passages from a pamphlet...

[kat]

You know, Paradise Lost was an interesting book, but it was horribly long, and my class was the first in the history of my high school to have to read the entire thing. Awful awful awful.

[Wolffy13]

...So by forsaking someone and damning them to hell for all eternity, that's God showing his unconditional love?

That's not exactly accurate. I know, it's kind of confusing. Basically, He loves everyone a lot and He doesn't want anyone to go to hell (if there really is a hell, I'm confused about the realms of existence in the afterlife, but anyways), but if we made poor choices we have to deal with our consequences. That's what the general belief is.

And how can you prove the bible is accurate accounts?

Faith. Or you could ask God. Either way.

[MorganaFang]

Faith. Or you could ask God. Either way.

Faith left me for a more attractive woman, so I took on skeptism and God doesn't return calls well.

[kat]

Wolfy, I am not confused by this. I have simplified it down to the most basic actions. You do not call damning someone to hell for /eternity/ a means of showing unconditional love. That's just bullshit.

[Darth Cluich]

You know, Paradise Lost was an interesting book, but it was horribly long, and my class was the first in the history of my high school to have to read the entire thing. Awful awful awful.

I rather liked it myself. It wasn't required reading in my high school, but for my English Lit. class in my senior year, I chose to do a year-long project on it, studying the mythical archetypes it contained and possible connections to Western (Greco-Roman and Norse) and Near Eastern mythologies (Egyptian, Sumerian, etc.). It was a lot of fun, surprisingly enough.

[Darth Cluich]

Faith left me for a more attractive woman, so I took on skeptism and God doesn't return calls well.

And I had Hope once, but she ran off with Youthful Sense of Idealism.

[kat]

Ah, see, we literally had to read it in 3 weeks and have a term paper written on the entire thing by the end of that month. 80% of the class got a 60 or lower on the paper and the teacher was eventually fired (when he came to class, he either came unshowered and/or high). This wasn't a class of idiots, either. We just had no idea what we were doing reading that book in the 11th grade without the teacher really helping us along with it (thank GOD for SparkNotes, which was still a great free service at the time).

[Darth Cluich]

(thank GOD for SparkNotes, which was still a great free service at the time).

Hmmm...SparkNotes? The old guy hasn't the foggiest what that is. ;) Some kinda online Cliff's Notes, I s'pose?

(Yup, doin' my damnedest to send this thread careening down as many tangents as possible! :D )

[Wolffy13]

Honestly, I'm not so sure it is for eternity. Like I said, I'm confused on the whole after life scenario. According to Mormon belief there are three levels of heaven, but I don't really hear any mentions of hell. I have heard that the lowest level of heaven would be a lot like our existence now and that it's reserved for muderers, rapists, and what have you. I've also heard it said somewhere, but I can't be sure it is Mormon belief or otherwise, that you stay in hell until you ask for forgiveness.

I'm not sure what goes on exactly when one passes, and I will be the first to admit that I don't have all the answers. However, I, myself, am aiming for the best scenario by just trying to be a kind, decent, moral and benign life as I can, which I would imagine the general population would be doing (or at least something similar) as well.

By the way, kat, perhaps I just misunderstood you. I apologize if I did.

[kat]

You're fine, Wolffy. Arguments aren't meant to be taken personally.