Manipulation...

[MorganaFang]

Is it such a bad thing?

[Hellcat]

Is it such a bad thing?

Depends on the purpose and the tactics used

[Wolffy13]

Don't you think manipulation would intefere with free will? Granted, there may be a few times when it's helpful for beneficial reasons (I couldn't possibly think of how or why at this point in time), but otherwise wouldn't that keep others from making their own choices? If anything, I'm playing devil's advocate :D

[MorganaFang]

Don't you think manipulation would intefere with free will? Granted, there may be a few times when it's helpful for beneficial reasons (I couldn't possibly think of how or why at this point in time), but otherwise wouldn't that keep others from making their own choices? If anything, I'm playing devil's advocate :D

Hey, but if the person is manipulated enough to believe they still have free will... Well what do you have to say to that?

[DarkWolf]

We're all being manipulated, by parents to get education and get married and have kids and so on, by government to pay taxes or obey the laws, by society to conform, by nature and environment, by all the above and more for how you live your life.. and most without you being conciously aware of it.

So, are they all bad things? Not really. Relationships can be manipulation, so can feelings: your hormones manipulate how you think and what drives you.

Everyone is being manipulated by something or somebody, and the morality of it lies only to whom does it benefit and why.

[Wolffy13]

Hey, but if the person is manipulated enough to believe they still have free will... Well what do you have to say to that?

Hmmmmmmmmmm, that's deep. By the way, I am assuming you mean being manipulated by people.

Well, I can imagine a person believing that they have free will, but are always puppeteered by someone. I guess in such an instance, ignorance is bliss.I guess you could say that it's like the Character of Neo in "The Matrix". He thought he had free will when in fact, that wasn't the case. I guess, at the risk of sounding like a big and utter geek, would you stay in the Matrix? Would you want that kind of ignorance or would you prefer the truth and the burdens that come with it?

I guess for me, I chose to throw out my blissful ignorance for the painful thruth (I'm not sure why sometimes, but the price for such freedom can be heavy).

[_wistful_]

Hey, but if the person is manipulated enough to believe they still have free will... Well what do you have to say to that?

Don't you think manipulation would intefere with free will? Granted, there may be a few times when it's helpful for beneficial reasons (I couldn't possibly think of how or why at this point in time), but otherwise wouldn't that keep others from making their own choices? If anything, I'm playing devil's advocate

I think MorganaFang and Wolffy13 are mistaking manipulation for deception.

[DarkWolf]

guess you could say that it's like the Character of Neo in "The Matrix". He thought he had free will when in fact, that wasn't the case

Watch Matrix 2, you find out he did after all. In fact he had more free will than anyone else because he is The One.

[Wolffy13]

Oh, you know what I meant. I wasn't trying to be so literal.

I guess I did get manipulation and deception confused. Let me think about it.

[kaycee]

Manipulation can be very damaging. It all depends on the situation. Most of the time when you hear ' She/he's manipulative, or they manipulated the situation, it's usually bad.

This kind of thing can really hurt someone alot.

[MorganaFang]

Manipulation, molding the mind to get it to think what you want it to think.

[Hellcat]

Manipulation, molding the mind to get it to think what you want it to think.

Manipulation serves a lot of purposes, some good some bad. Emotional black mail is manipulative, but usually the purpose for such manipulation is to reach a selfish goal.

Disciplining a child is manipulative- it teaches a child right from wrong.

Manipulation is like a kitchen knife- it can be a harmless tool by which to create something good, or it can be a nasty weapon by which to cause harm to others

[blueeyes]

Allowing oneself to be manipulated is the same as allowing oneself to be changed; it both weakens your ability to understand what occurs around you and destroys your willingness to fight negatives.
Manipulation can be used for positive purposes, but it is less like the knife and more the gun; something vile that can be used for good purposes. For example, driving someone to better themselves.
The rest of the time, it affects both the one manipulated and the one manipulating for the worst, and shows that neither can find a better path.

[MoC]

Well... hmmm... Manipulation...

My "significant other" believes he is manipulating me, but I know things he thinks I don't know, so I'm foiling his plans.

Meanwhile I'm manipulating him into giving me more information on the subjects he thinks I don't know about....

It's odd.

But manipulation to avoid being hurt can be a good thing.. Manipulation with the goal to cause pain is a bad thing.

If that makes any sense...

- MoC

[Ronin]

Is it such a bad thing? This is just my opinion, so no one get their feathers all ruffled, but I believe manipulation (no matter how innocent in appearance) is always negative. It's just inherently bad because as someone already remarked, it's usually used for selfish reasons and personal gain. Name one instance when manipulation is good? You can't. Because every circumstance will have an underlying, ulterior motive at its source.

Young girls are manipulated constantly in today's world. Thanks to the media. Look at the magazines? Sex sells. They don't put a 45-year-old housewife that's had three kids on the covers, they put some twit that just looks good and is skinny. Same with guys. You don't see Earl your bus driver on the covers of Muscle & Fitness or GQ. It's all about guys with rippling biceps, and for GQ, wealth. So there's pressure for both genders to create this image that unless you have the body of a supermodel or you're not overflowing with wealth, you're not good enough. Or why can't you be like him/her?

That sort of manipulation is definitely wrong. Especially for young girls that at age 13 they're worrying more about emulating Britney Spears instead of playing with Barbie...or whatever 13-year-old girls used to do. I know when I was younger I was worried about which Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle action figure was coming out next instead of worrying about what I looked like or sex. It's just disgraceful the situation of today.

Sorry to go off on a rant, the topic is about manipulation, but I just had to reference the state of affairs of today as an example of bad manipulation.

~Ronin

[ThrasherCub]

Is it such a bad thing?
Yes.




Okay, well in general it is. Because the way I see it used most is to get someone to do something or to get information out of someone. If it was something good you wouldn't have to trick the person, therefore it's something bad you want done or said.
Of course, I'm a mastermind at it, but use it for good. Through use of manipulation and circular logic I'm able to not only find out what's bothering someone, but get them to feel better and to actualy fix the problem without them knowing I did anything.

[Klark]

Manipulation to me is, as some others stated, good and bad.

Ronin listed several of the reasons of how manipulation gets a bad rep, so I will use reasons of good to show a light on manipulation.

Everytime you ask someone for some advice, you allow yourself to be manipulated. Even if the advice given is for the good, it's still manipulation. Suppose you ask your friend if they think your art is good enough to be entered into competition, you cannot decide. Your friend tells you to go for it, it's damn good, you'll win. You enter and win, or you enter and lose. Either way, because they told you to enter, you did. You have been manipulated.

A gunman is holding a gun to your head. You just talk, slowly, trying to make him let you go or drop the gun. Supposing you succeed, he drops the gun because of your talking to him. You have manipulated him in a direction that he had not set out on...and you live. Good, no?

Manipulation is like medicine...taken in small doses, good, OD on it....bad.

[Necro Mortis]

This is just my opinion, so no one get their feathers all ruffled, but I believe manipulation (no matter how innocent in appearance) is always negative. It's just inherently bad because as someone already remarked, it's usually used for selfish reasons and personal gain. Name one instance when manipulation is good? You can't. Because every circumstance will have an underlying, ulterior motive at its source.

~Ronin

I totally disagree with this. Manipulation of the mind under the right circumstances can be good. I assume you do know about people who find it incredibly difficult to give up smoking, loose weight, stop habbits and other such things sometimes turn to people who can manipulate their minds to help them. This can save lives. Manipulation can be used for bad as well as good it just needs the right reasons. Are saying that people whos minds are manipulated to stop them from damaging themselves is bad? People who seek this help under their own free will are choosing to let others manipulate their minds, are they not?
So yes I can name one and many instances where manipulation is good.
I dunno, maybe im blowing this out of proportion but the "Name one instance when manipulation is good? You can't." seemed like a challenge and I feel strongly about this.
Just because people abuse it so they can sell their products or whatever dosent mean its all bad.

[Rlib]

You cannot observe anything without changing it.
Any intentional change can be thought of as manipulation.
By our nature we cannot exist without our senses therefore we are constantly observing things.
Therefore if we choose to exist, we choose to observe and we choose to change.
This is manipulation.

Therefore whether manipulation is good or bad must surely depend heavily on context.