Did you ever question the bible as a religious icon...

[FocusedWolf]

I always thought it was funny when i would say the bible was written by man, and someone would respond saying something like "elightented men" or "touched by god" etc.

It just looks like a story book to me... It proves lots of similiarity to behavior of humans though...and all other religions of this world...(the moses story was stollen/based off of the epic of gilgamesh lol)...like how people seek out belonging or reason for being...creation stories and such.

One thing that i noticed is how religion is needed for the infrastuture of civilization. Like the creation of gunpowder and religion has brought us to now with our computers on this discussion board. Religion keeps up morale i guess.

[McKitty]

I don't read the bible, I read the Torah, and yeah, I do view it more as a fable book then something to base my whole life on.

[Xzengrim]

I've read the bible... but I did not read it as a book of religious instructions. I read it as a very influential work of fiction, like Homer's Odessy, or Beowolf, or Gilgamesh. Very old, contains a lot of legends... is important to the development of Western culture. That seems about right to me.

[J.L.R.]

The Bible, with or with out God, is far from a fable. Most of its context do have historical backing to prove that the peoples and cultures of the Bible times existed. Archeologists have found that many of the events depicted in the Bible actually did occure, so on a historical view point the Bible is true. In fact, two Russian physicists discovered recently (I read the artical yesterday), that the dividing of the Red Sea is physically possible. It was very interesting.

On the religious view point, the Bible is unique among other faiths. God remains nameless. Even when Moses asked God, for His name, in order to gain support for the quest he was asked to do, God said, tell them I Am. Now the Hebrew nation had many names for God, but God never once gave them a name to call him, other than God. Also, unlike many of the other religions abounding at the time, God strickly forbade his people from making images of Him, called Idols. This of course is very weird, since an idol is used to give a physical connection between man and a diety. In other words, God wanted His people to believe in Him, with out any visual evidence that they could understand. God's proof of existance was the covenant that He had established between He and His people the Jews, and as long as they kept their part of the bargain, He would protect them, and make them prosper where ever they go.

On a literature view point, the Bible contains, as already mentioned, some very compelling stories. Such as the story of David, the second Isreali King. A shepherd boy who slayed a giant, became a fugitive, of whom was best friends with the son, of the very man, who sought to kill him, and later becomes King. It is a wonderful and yet tragic story, but then again such is life.

Has other sources affected the peoples of the Bible? Of course...
The Bible even shows how. The Hebrew Nation as a whole, did not want to worship an unseen God, they wanted to be like the other nations around them, who at the time, seemed to be prospering, where they weren't. They adopted the government with Kings, they also adopted many of the cultural aspects of the neighboring peoples around them. You can see how the different writers of the Bible were affected by this.

[FocusedWolf]

i dont want to offend anyone, but their was an interesting tv show about what if it was aliens that were helping out people back then...like god talking to moses and smokey firey stuff and such. Like if you read descriptions under the context that this maybe an ailien encounter...it just falls into place...the show even had priests that agreed with this possibility. Or maybe its future humans going back in time to setup religion to accelerate the infrastructure thing like i said in first post...weird.

[Hellcat]

The Bible is a book I've never really been able to get into. I've tried reading it a couple of times, but I've never gotten past genesis. I kinda get to a point when I slam the book down and think "Jesus, this book is written by men, FOR men". In fact I'm surprised these Over-active equal rites people haven't demanded the book to be burnt.

[LV426]

The Bible is a book I've never really been able to get into. I've tried reading it a couple of times, but I've never gotten past genesis. I kinda get to a point when I slam the book down and think "Jesus, this book is written by men, FOR men". In fact I'm surprised these Over-active equal rites people haven't demanded the book to be burnt.
Actually HellCat it is interesting to read the Bible in its entirety because as the Bible progresses you can notice parts that are obviously written by a woman or women. Genesis is an obviously male chapter though so I do understand where you are coming from. The Old Testament is predominantly make derived but there are section that you can tell where a woman stepped in and wrote her 2 cents worth. The New Testament has a more feminine view to it and while you still have a somewhat sexist attitude there are parts that women took in hand and modified to be less sexist.

The Bible was probably entrusted to very religious males of a family or sect and the woman of the household would write for her husband, or perhaps a trusted female member was entrusted with certain texts and records and so was able to add in their views and beliefs.

The bible is a very good Moral teaching tool in some cases, especially the 10 commandments. They were made as a guide for people to follow and to enable children to tell right from wrong. I also believe that the elders of a village or town, in trying to answer the questions of children and those who had suffered loss began by telling oral stories of creation and making up a god who takes care of all peoples.

It happens even in primitive cultures today. The elders and wise men become holy men because they invented tales and stories to explain why things are the way they are. A prime example of this is the tales told by Native Americans and how the world came into existence, how the bear lost his tail, how the sun and moon came into existence, and various other teaching lore that has been passed down from generation to generation.

Even the ancient egyptians had a method of story telling and instructional texts for their people which now grace the walls of tombs and temples and have stood the test of time.


Every culture has some code of ethics, a listing of things that one should not do and which shall bring punishment from spirits, gods, goddesses, or other supernatural beings.

The Bible does follow historical events to some extent, there are geological and historical events that have coincided with events that were recorded in the Bible however from reading various stories in the Bible I have noticed that the moralistic stories and those that were recorded to prove the power of god have been embellished and exaggerated to prove their point. While there may be certain truths in the Bible there is more fiction that has been used to bring the stories to life and give it a more captivating feel for it's audience.

[LupineShaman]

I read most of the bible, not the book of genesis because that is a fable. I read it to try and understand another persons religion. I am, in point of fact, a Wiccan. But I am deeply interested in the religions of others. Some of the things in the bible are possible if a person has enough controle over thier spiritual energy. And others are completely fiction. And contemplate this, IF it was ever completely true when it was first written ALL of the true meanings are lost. Being translated by so many people over so many years, with thier own personal opinions and biases having an effect, it is currently just an elaborate fairy tale. Meant to inspire the hearts of men and women, and frighten little children into behaving. And just remember, it's not WHAT you believe but THAT you believe. And I would enjoy having a very long civilized discussion with anybody about religion.

[DarkWolf]

I just think the stories of the bible are just the ancient grasping for what we in the present already have understood through a science they didn't have.

Story: In greek mythology one myth features Arachne, a woman who excelled in knitting and weaving and even entered contests and always won. One day she met an aging woman who was also good at the weave, and their egos collided. They held a contest and Arachne won. The old woman transformed, revealing it was actually the Goddess Athena. In fury of being defeated at the weave by a mere mortal Athena cursed Arachne, transforming her into a small creature, with eight legs and would weave to survive: she became the first spider.

This would be the religious Greek method (we call it myth now, but back then it was religion) of trying to discover where the first spider could have come from. They saw the spider weaved webs, and so associated it with the goddess of the weave, Athena (also Goddess of Poetry, Wisdom and War), and was mostly the sufferer of a god's wrath and most likely due to the weave.

So is the bible really different? It is just religious people trying to use God to explain what we'd now call science.

Religion, of any kind, tries to make sense or hope, of something their feeble minds couldn't. Also, stories about actual events get exaggerated and bumped by ego or fancy.

After 2000 years and suffering many sketchy translations do you honestly think the words of the bible you read now, is the actual bible written millenia ago?

[cyberphreak82]

The problem with the Bible, as has been pointed out here, is that it was written by humans, who are naturally ignorant, biased, fearful and egotistical. This alters their perspectives on life, which in turn alters what they will write.

Although I am not a Christian by a long shot (I'm not Wiccan or atheist or Muslim or anything like that, either; just not religious), I do respect the bible as a historically and morally valuable tome of wisdom and moral guidance. However there is a wonderful simile that a pastor friend of mine made:

The truth, be it the word of God or whatever, is like light, and the people who are chosen to disseminate this truth are like colored glass. The light still reaches those on the other side of the glass, but it is no longer pure light, but rather is colored to match the glass.

It is not that these people chose to alter the message of God or the ultimate truths that years of living had given them, it is simply that their own perceptions added a bit of color and humanity, and therefore some innate flaws, to the scripture.

[Darth Cluich]

The truth, be it the word of God or whatever, is like light, and the people who are chosen to disseminate this truth are like colored glass. The light still reaches those on the other side of the glass, but it is no longer pure light, but rather is colored to match the glass.

Very nice analogy. :notworthy

[Aquilan]

If you base your life on the bible, you are missing the point. The bible is a book, and nothing more. It's just there to tell us one thing: Love people. Everything else in there is neat, but it is a history lesson, not a religious point. Also, I agree with Cluich. I love analogies! :)

[LycanSpectre]

The truth, be it the word of God or whatever, is like light, and the people who are chosen to disseminate this truth are like colored glass. The light still reaches those on the other side of the glass, but it is no longer pure light, but rather is colored to match the glass.

Brilliant! And so accurate! :)

[Wolffy13]

I personally believe in the bible (I won't elaborate as to why because it seems no one care anyway). Then again, the bible is only 2/5 of scripture I believe in, but I still know it to be truthful, all in all.

[J.L.R.]

I think the better question is, because I'd REALLY like to know, is WHY following the Bible to the page, is wrong? How am I missing the point? I know you all must be Bible scholars with all this Biblical knowlage going around. So answer my queation. I've seen a lot of opinions and perceptions, but now, I would like to see some proof. Go ahead and show me please.

And then I will give you my reply...

[LycanSpectre]

Genesis 22:2 - God commands Abraham to sacrifice his loved son.

Leviticus 20:2 -- God commands that child sacrifice is wrong,any who commit this immoral deed are to be put to death by stoning.

Exodus 20 (Ten Commandments) Thou Shalt Not Kill

Not to mention the chapeters devoted to who to kill and how to kill them.

God was making and breaking his own laws in the bible, all throughout the old testament. This is called Inconsistency, and is a logical fallacy. Also, there is no way to be sure that the word of the bible (particularly the Old Testament) is really the word of God, and not the hate handbook of the times. See thread titled Euthyphro Dilemma for more on this idea. Compliments of Plato.

And yet, according to Christain doctrine, the Old Testament is still the word of God, its just the old and out of date version.

[Xzengrim]

I'm suspicious of the word of God. There have been a lot of people who climbed up into clock towers with weapons because god told them to do it.

(And by that I don't mean clock towers specifically. But people do terrible, psychotic things in the name of god. But then again, how do we know that god DIDN'T tell them to do it?)

[Aquilan]

Genesis 22:2 - God commands Abraham to sacrifice his loved son.

Leviticus 20:2 -- God commands that child sacrifice is wrong,any who commit this immoral deed are to be put to death by stoning.

Exodus 20 (Ten Commandments) Thou Shalt Not Kill

Not to mention the chapeters devoted to who to kill and how to kill them.

God was making and breaking his own laws in the bible, all throughout the old testament. This is called Inconsistency, and is a logical fallacy. Also, there is no way to be sure that the word of the bible (particularly the Old Testament) is really the word of God, and not the hate handbook of the times. See thread titled Euthyphro Dilemma for more on this idea. Compliments of Plato.

And yet, according to Christain doctrine, the Old Testament is still the word of God, its just the old and out of date version.

It is, but once again, it is history, not his point. You will notice that Abraham DIDN'T kill Issiac, because God was testing his loyalty. God then wanted to populate the world. Children grow up to be adults, who have children. Children killers aren't exactly the most loving of life in general, so you have one dude who sacrifices children, and you might not end up with like... 20 more people in 15 years. There weren't a whole lot of people to go around back then. Then, there were the ten commandments. Jesus summerized these in a few verses.
1. Love God.
2. Love your neighbor. (All creatures)

But you know, most old laws are there so that people didn't die. Pork had a whole bunch of germs in it, and people couldn't cook it properly, so they didn't, and eventually, it grew from a rule to a law, and so forth. Now that times have changed, there are different laws, you see?

As for following the bible page for page, could you describe this to me J.L.R? I'm not sure I know what you had in mind.

[LycanSpectre]

Oh yes. I see. I saw. And I still think my "Faith", if you can call it that, is best placed elsewhere. Your response still leaves many questions.

What if Abraham had killed his son? Would God of punished him, saying: Yeah, I told you to do it, but I was only joking. You should have known that. You know me; I'm god, the biggest joker in the universe.

Or would God have let it slide, and thus of commanded someone to break his previous laws. Either way, it would still be fraught with logical fallacies.

I am NOT saying that having faith in the bible is wrong, but what I AM saying is that you may want to think VERY carefully before you follow it to the word, and that you know what it is saying.

[J.L.R.]

That is all you've got? Come on now...

God tested Abraham's faith, by asking him to sacrifice his only son. Yes God did ask him to do this, however, if you continue on, God had NO intentions of letting Abraham go through with it. Remember the verse that says, "And God provided himself a sacrifice." Not just any sacrifice, but a lamb. This was a picture of Jesus Christ. God's sacrifice for man's sin.

Thou Shalt not Kill is expressed to commiting Murder, and if you continue reading Leviticus (The book of the Law) explains it to a T. The only reasons to take another's life, is punishment for certain crimes, and war, such as protecting your country. These are the only times when it is okay to take another's life.

This of course is all explained in the Bible.

I will explain more in time, for I am busy right now, but I will leave you with this.

To understand the Bible and its power, you have to take it as a WHOLE, not just bits and pieces. If you don't read the entire book and SEE for yourself, then you can obtain false assumptions. It is just like judging a book by only reading a few chapters. You can't.

The Bible is not inconsistant. It has 44 different writers, and they all share a common theme, no matter how far apart in time they were. There isn't any inconsistancy between the books either. You can by style and tecknique that each writer was different, but their message is the same, revealing to those, who CHOOSE to believe, God's character.

THe Old Testement is God's plight with humanity, and the New Testement is God's final plan of Salvation revealed.

[Aquilan]

Now ya got me thinking again... I've read most of the bible, but now I'm gonna have to go back and read it all. I don't think I can keep up with you people till I get a new viewpoint. :(

[J.L.R.]

Okay I am back with a little more clarity.

In the specific story you spoke of LycanSpecter, Abraham had enought Faith in God, to know that God would not allow him to sacrifice his son. This is revealed when Isaac asks his father, concerning the lack of a sacrifice. Abraham responded, "My son, God will provide Himself a lamb for a burnt offering." Abraham knew God wouldn't allow him to do it, and guess what, God didn't.

Also God forbade his people from sacrificing themselves to Molech and false gods. While God did show how He wanted sacrifices accomplished (Leviticus again), I don't believe He ever forbade His people from sacrificing themselves to Him, but then again, from my readings, I don't think they did anyway.

Xzen asked though a very very good question. Good Xzen, hear's a treat! :)

First off, God will NEVER NEVER ask you do to something that is against what He teaches us in His Word, the Bible. In other words, "God told me to sleep with so and so... and." That is fornication, and thus, God will not ask you to commit fornication or anything that is wrong for that matter. People, more often than not, get THEIR will mixed up with what God wants. They say God, to sort of bring justification for their actions.

That is WHY, and I stress this very much, that is why people should read the Bible, not just the parts they like, but every last chapter and verse. There are a lot of people out there who abuse the Bible. Who take out of the Bible the parts they like, and leave the rest. There are many false teachers who teach a doctrin contrary to what God teaches. Remember the Bible always points to God, when somebody is using the Bible, and he or she starts pointing to themselves, BEWARE, they are leading you astray.

You see, I don't take my pastor or any pastor's word for it. I want to know it myself. See it in the ink, feel it with my hands, you know, that sort of thing. I want to know for myself, and not because somebody else told me.

I was once an athiest as well as a strick evolutionist, however, after a few disagreements and a whole lifetime full of crap, I became a Christian. All I can say is, my life changed, or more accurately, my outlook on life changed. I applied the Bible to my life, and it makes since. Creation, believe it or not, makes a whole lot more since than evolution ever did, and there are massive amounts of evidence that supports my statement as well. Humanity made since, and most of all, my existance made since.

I understand your conflicts with Christianity, because I was there at one time. So if you have any more questions, just ask, and I will do my best to answer them.

[Aquilan]

Okay I am back with a little more clarity.

In the specific story you spoke of LycanSpecter, Abraham had enought Faith in God, to know that God would not allow him to sacrifice his son. This is revealed when Isaac asks his father, concerning the lack of a sacrifice. Abraham responded, "My son, God will provide Himself a lamb for a burnt offering." Abraham knew God wouldn't allow him to do it, and guess what, God didn't.

Also God forbade his people from sacrificing themselves to Molech and false gods. While God did show how He wanted sacrifices accomplished (Leviticus again), I don't believe He ever forbade His people from sacrificing themselves to Him, but then again, from my readings, I don't think they did anyway.

Xzen asked though a very very good question. Good Xzen, hear's a treat! :)

First off, God will NEVER NEVER ask you do to something that is against what He teaches us in His Word, the Bible. In other words, "God told me to sleep with so and so... and." That is fornication, and thus, God will not ask you to commit fornication or anything that is wrong for that matter. People, more often than not, get THEIR will mixed up with what God wants. They say God, to sort of bring justification for their actions.

That is WHY, and I stress this very much, that is why people should read the Bible, not just the parts they like, but every last chapter and verse. There are a lot of people out there who abuse the Bible. Who take out of the Bible the parts they like, and leave the rest. There are many false teachers who teach a doctrin contrary to what God teaches. Remember the Bible always points to God, when somebody is using the Bible, and he or she starts pointing to themselves, BEWARE, they are leading you astray.

You see, I don't take my pastor or any pastor's word for it. I want to know it myself. See it in the ink, feel it with my hands, you know, that sort of thing. I want to know for myself, and not because somebody else told me.

I was once an athiest as well as a strick evolutionist, however, after a few disagreements and a whole lifetime full of crap, I became a Christian. All I can say is, my life changed, or more accurately, my outlook on life changed. I applied the Bible to my life, and it makes since. Creation, believe it or not, makes a whole lot more since than evolution ever did, and there are massive amounts of evidence that supports my statement as well. Humanity made since, and most of all, my existance made since.

I understand your conflicts with Christianity, because I was there at one time. So if you have any more questions, just ask, and I will do my best to answer them.

*applauds* Not much else I can do. It is nice, though, to find somebody who isn't just a Christian by title. :)

[Lady_Despair]

The thing about the bible is... each religion changes for example the name of god and such but each of these religions uses it for their own good. More than a religious guide its a book upon wich you can control people with. But yeah, it is enjoyable, everyone could read it but it would be even a greater book if someone rescued the other books some religions (most of them) have edited out.

[LycanSpectre]

Sorry JLR, I don't buy it. I'm glad you are happy with your faith, I really am, but I cannot get past the problems I see.

[What follows is not directed at anyone specifically, just making my veiws known].

I don't like having anyone, living, dead, or un-dead, tell me who "God" is and what I should or should not do. The Creator gave me a conscience and a brain so that I could figure that out for myself. Christianity may satisfy some people, but not me. I really do not think it matters what faith you claim, be it Christianity, Islam, Wicca, a Pagan faith, or Atheism/Agnostiscm. I really do not believe the powers that be are so closed minded as most religons want people to think he/she/it/they are.

Like my sig says: Let no one tell you what to believe. Think for yourself. And I will.

[J.L.R.]

However, God wants you to think for yourself. You're right, He gave us a mind, and He wants us to use it. You shouldn't except what the Bible says is right, just on the account that somebody told somebody told somebody, that is why God said in Isaiah, "Come now, let us reason together, saith the Lord, though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as wool, though they be red like crimson, they shall be white as snow."

God wants people to know more about Him, but He leaves that choice to them. If you want to know more about God, then you can find Him, if not, then so be it.

Every human has a free choice, either to accept or reject God's promise, however that is all up to you.

Also Lady_Despair, if you look at Christianity, God does not go by an actual name, other than God. The Hebrews had different names for him, but they were all forms of God, I mean in comparison to Diana, Dionysus, Baal, and so on. Another thing is, God forbade any kind of image of Him made. Why? I mean the reason for idols is to give a tangible physical presentation of the gods that be, so that we people would have something to go by, but God rejected this, and for a good reason. God wasn't a god of earth, fire, wind, water, or whatever, He was a God of everything, life itself. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, and so on. If people would makes images of Him, then those images would start taking his place. In other words, people would worship the image over the God of the image. The same goes with blind rituals of the Pharisees and Saducees, as well as many churches today. Rituals become so prevelent, that they do them without thought of why they do them. It is a ritual, without reason and purpose. They have forgotten God.

It is only natural that we as people, do not want to be told what is right and what is wrong, but if somebody came and told you not to jump of that cliff without a bungee cord, would you? Probably not...in most cases... You wouldn't do that because, obviously, unless you are suicidal, you know that it would kill you. God's commandments are like that. He gave us absolutes of right and wrong, and He gave us the choice to either follow them or disobey them. He said if we followed them, that we would be blessed, however if we disobey, we will be punished.

God said, lying is wrong. What happens to those who lie all the time? People begin to doubt them and loose trust in them.

God said not to commit fornication (sex without marraige). Everbody is doing this, why is it wrong? In Genesis, God sanctified the union of man and woman, and they become as one flesh, as quoted in the Bible. There are a number of reasons why a young person should wait until he or she is married before having sex. 1. Vanerial deseases, 2. procreation, 3. relationships. and so on. Today having sex with several mates, is like playing a game of Rushian Rullet. It is flat out dangerous. You also take a big chance in getting responsibilities that you are not ready for. A married couple, has chosen to take that responsibility, while those who practice a multi-sex life hasn't.

God said to not commit murder. However, this doesn't just imply to the physical act. You can kill somebody in several ways. By spreading rumors, you can kill somebody's reputation. By being mean and hateful, you can kill somebody's self esteem. Get my drift.

You see God did not give us rules to CONTROL us, but protect us from harmful things.

The Bible teaches us to, respect others, respect ourselves, and further more, respect God.

For those, who say the Bible teaches hate, what about the verse where Jesus says, "It is a small thing to love those that love you, but it is even greater to love those who hate you, to pray for those who despitefully use you."

Question?

How can you hurt somebody you love? Or I should say, would you hurt somebody you love? No...

That is why the Bible is still up to date. The problem with this world is, humanity doesn't want absolutes anymore. They have relative morality, or "What ever is good in their eyes."

However, that was the way of humanity, before God wiped the Earth clean with the Global (And this is scientific fact) flood. Right is right, wrong is wrong, no matter how candycoated you make it.

THe Bible says, "the wages of sin is death." That my friend, no matter how you look at it, is a fact. You do wrong with your body, and you will pay for it, someday, somehow, we all pay for our actions.

Thank you Aquilan. True Believers are getting rarer and rarer these days. I see more posers all the time. "They have a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."

I myself, can't help loving people, all people, cultures, and their cultures food, well unless it is morroccan...nay, I don't like Morroccan cousin. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt (and say Mummy Returns being filmed). Since God was merciful to me, I guess I SHOULD be merciful to everbody else (So no, I won't push the Red Button...har har). Walking the Christian walk is hard sometimes, especially when people piss you off, but as I have learned, that even in the most annoying people on the face of the planet, there is always something special about them. Oh well, I better stop for now before I write a six page thesis...:)

[LycanSpectre]

It is only natural that we as people, do not want to be told what is right and what is wrong, but if somebody came and told you not to jump of that cliff without a bungee cord, would you? Probably not...in most cases... You wouldn't do that because, obviously, unless you are suicidal, you know that it would kill you. God's commandments are like that.

This is a weak analogy. Jumping off a cliff without a bungee cord has immedaite and obvious consequenses. Common sense should tell a person that. Not believing in "God" does not have any such consequenses. Sure, you may die and go to hell. Or you may not. You only die once; and we won't know what the truth is until we die. So no one has experience to base such a judgement on.

God said, lying is wrong. What happens to those who lie all the time? People begin to doubt them and loose trust in them.

People also lose faith in people who tell them one thing, and expect another. Or those who apply the rules only when convenient. "God" did this plenty of times. I point again to the example of Genesis 22:2, Abraham and the commanded sacrifice. If god goes around testing people all the time, then no one would be able to tell when he/she/it/they really meant something. Also, despite the 6th (of ten) commandments (do not kill) "God" still commanded that a whole lot of people be put to death for various sins. I forget what passage exatly, but it's a whole long list of what makes people unclean and worthy of death. Stuff like "lays with the animals" or "drinks blood" or "has sex" is on there. I know it's there; I read it a couple times. I'd go look it up, but I didn't pack my bible when I moved into the dorm. Didn't forsee needing it.

One more thing: I think you sorta missed half the point of my last post. I do not think that whatever diety is out there is one to say "This one, specific, narrow, way dictated to you by this old book is the only way. If you do not do what this one specific way demands, you will suffer most horribly for eternity". If "God" is as loving as the bible/koran/other books claims, then it wont matter what faith you practice! They all claim to worship a higher power! Who gives a shit what they name it? Who cares if the customs of worship are different from yours? Who cares if they find it easier to name the differnt parts different things and call them seperate gods? (no offence to polythists out there; but I am arguing with a monotheist.) I think that the whole idea of "The one true path to heaven" or whatever is bullshit invented by holier-than-thou assholes who wanted to CONTROL people. (Yes, I said CONTROL!) This is why I first became an agnostic. Because I think it doesn't matter what you believe. At all. Over the years, I have developed many other reasons that show me that Agnostiscism is the right path for me. Practice whatever faith you think is right for you, but DO NOT tell others what is right. There is no way in hell you can know with enough certainty that you are RIGHT and they are WRONG to justify that.

[Sane Inside Insanity]

I always thought it was funny when i would say the bible was written by man, and someone would respond saying something like "elightented men" or "touched by god" etc.

It just looks like a story book to me....

I feel the same way basically. People will realize this someday, hopefully.

[Aquilan]

It is written by men, and that is why it isn't perfect.

[phantomroller]

I've noticed that everyone keeps bringing up God and what he said and did in the Old Testament. There is a God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament, but it's the same God. the only differnce is Jesus came to correct the misconceptions that people had about God. all the Jews thought of God as this vengful wrathful God, but when Jesus came He showed us a completely different side of God. that God loves us and wants us to love one another. we're under the New Covenant not the Old one.

everyone seems to read the first half of the bible and judge God on that, but there are 27 other books in the New testament which shows how God really is. so yeah, he told the Isrealites to kill people...God of the Old Testament. he told them to sacraifce things...God of the Old Testamnet.But then Jesus came and corrected that.

Also, rules aren't ment to control but to protect. they're ment to steer you on the right path. yes you can break the rules like J.L. R said and do what you want, but you might get hurt in the end. God doesn't want to control. that's the whole point of God. he doesn't want to control us and doesn't make us do anything we don't want.

[J.L.R.]

By who's standerds is the Bible imperfect? Who can actually judge it with authority? After reading it several times in my life, I don't find the Bible wrong about humanity in the least but, but to save an arguement, that can go on until the cows come home, I am going to say this...

If you believe what the Bible says, you are going to understand the meanings behind the words. If you don't, you won't, and for that matter, you wouldn't care anyway.

The Bible is a religious Icon whether you believe it or not, because the Bible is a religious icon, getting back to the origianl question that is. Whether you believe it is more than an icon, is the real question.

A better question to ask is, "Is the Bible really the unfallible Word of God, or is it not?"

I personally believe it is the Word of God, imprinted into the hearts of various men, who witnessed God's awesome power in their life. I believe it has a deep and powerful reflection on those who truly, and I mean truly (no pretenders or power seekers) take hold of its message of love and compassion. The Bible has been proven to be historically accountable, as well as scientifically accountable, when true science is applied. Since its creation, it has changed millions of lives across the globe, many of whom, were before skeptics of the Word. I believe the Bible reveals how to live a life with out barriers, with out chains to hold you down, and by my studies, that reasoning has not been proven wrong.

I think those who honestly look to the Bible for answers will find them, those who do not, will not.

To each is there own.

Being human, I do question the Bible sometimes, and those questions lead me to search further, but the further and deeper I search, the more accurate I find the Bible, and the more assurance I have in what I believe.

Now I ask you, do you ever question your beliefs?

Do you ever ask yourself, are Christians really right? Is there something more to this God thing? What if we are?

If my questions lead to futher revelation on my part? What would your questions lead you to?

I get, that I should open my mind, but have you truly opened yours?

If I am wrong, then the Bible is nothing more than a good book with tons of wisdom locked inside. We are creatures of chaos with no purpose other than living. If we applied the values of evolution, that we are tought, it is nothing for us to kill one another in our desperate climb up the evolutionary latter. Morality is relative, and there is no consequence in doing wrong for there is no wrong, and thus the Nazi's were just aiding our evolutionary advance, after all our ancestors did the same thing as they evolved. It is after all, survival of the fittest, but really who decides who is fit?

If I am right though, and the Bible is the Word of God, and what that book says is true, then there are absolutes of right and wrong. Morality isn't relative, it is set in stone in the Bible. We, as every creature here, was created with a purpose, ours being to worship God. Humanity, through Adam's sin, rejected God and thus the Earth was cursed. God, knowing that wicked people would arise, let Death enter this world, in order to spare us an imortal reign of Hittlers. God made a new covenant with man, but he continued to disobey, in so much that God repented Himself that he created man. Thus God assured the Flood, and if it were not for the righteousness of one man, Noah, all life on this planet would have parished. The evidence of this global catastrophy are everywhere. The "Geological column" paints a perfect picture of this event. One world suddenly cought off guard in the midst of the greatest geological event in World History. Animals starting at the Ocean floor suddenly covered by debris and working its way up, as the surface of the Earth was literally torn to pieces, of course, as described in the Bible.

If the Bible is true then humanity is accountable for every wicked act against this world, and God has already promised His creation their revenge. Read the Book of Ezekiel.

God has some terrible plans for this Earth and those who reject Him, but He also made an escape, through His Son, Jesus Christ. Christ was a real person, and Christ really died, and by the account of over 500 people who witnessed it, Christ also arose from the dead.

God also promised those who believe that He will create a new Earth, that is restored to the perfect world this world was once. Of the many things listed, the discord between man and animal will be erased, and, as mentioned in the Bible, children will walk with wolves and not be affraid. Lions will eat with lambs and there will be complete peace... true peace.

So believe what you want. I'm wrong, well the Bible teaches us to respect the Earth, to respect people, and to respect ourselves, so it can't hurt me none, but if I am right....

Where does that leave you?

[Darth Cluich]

So believe what you want. I'm wrong, well the Bible teaches us to respect the Earth, to respect people, and to respect ourselves, so it can't hurt me none, but if I am right....

Where does that leave you?

Playing Twister in hell with Hitler and Madonna. Sounds like fun! :buttrock:

[LycanSpectre]

Playing Twister in hell with Hitler and Madonna. Sounds like fun! :buttrock:

I'll bring the keg. Who's gonna order the pizza?

[Aquilan]

By who's standerds is the Bible imperfect? Who can actually judge it with authority? After reading it several times in my life, I don't find the Bible wrong about humanity in the least but, but to save an arguement, that can go on until the cows come home, I am going to say this...

If you believe what the Bible says, you are going to understand the meanings behind the words. If you don't, you won't, and for that matter, you wouldn't care anyway.

The Bible is a religious Icon whether you believe it or not, because the Bible is a religious icon, getting back to the origianl question that is. Whether you believe it is more than an icon, is the real question.

A better question to ask is, "Is the Bible really the unfallible Word of God, or is it not?"

I personally believe it is the Word of God, imprinted into the hearts of various men, who witnessed God's awesome power in their life. I believe it has a deep and powerful reflection on those who truly, and I mean truly (no pretenders or power seekers) take hold of its message of love and compassion. The Bible has been proven to be historically accountable, as well as scientifically accountable, when true science is applied. Since its creation, it has changed millions of lives across the globe, many of whom, were before skeptics of the Word. I believe the Bible reveals how to live a life with out barriers, with out chains to hold you down, and by my studies, that reasoning has not been proven wrong.

I think those who honestly look to the Bible for answers will find them, those who do not, will not.

To each is there own.

Being human, I do question the Bible sometimes, and those questions lead me to search further, but the further and deeper I search, the more accurate I find the Bible, and the more assurance I have in what I believe.

Now I ask you, do you ever question your beliefs?

Do you ever ask yourself, are Christians really right? Is there something more to this God thing? What if we are?

If my questions lead to futher revelation on my part? What would your questions lead you to?

I get, that I should open my mind, but have you truly opened yours?

If I am wrong, then the Bible is nothing more than a good book with tons of wisdom locked inside. We are creatures of chaos with no purpose other than living. If we applied the values of evolution, that we are tought, it is nothing for us to kill one another in our desperate climb up the evolutionary latter. Morality is relative, and there is no consequence in doing wrong for there is no wrong, and thus the Nazi's were just aiding our evolutionary advance, after all our ancestors did the same thing as they evolved. It is after all, survival of the fittest, but really who decides who is fit?

If I am right though, and the Bible is the Word of God, and what that book says is true, then there are absolutes of right and wrong. Morality isn't relative, it is set in stone in the Bible. We, as every creature here, was created with a purpose, ours being to worship God. Humanity, through Adam's sin, rejected God and thus the Earth was cursed. God, knowing that wicked people would arise, let Death enter this world, in order to spare us an imortal reign of Hittlers. God made a new covenant with man, but he continued to disobey, in so much that God repented Himself that he created man. Thus God assured the Flood, and if it were not for the righteousness of one man, Noah, all life on this planet would have parished. The evidence of this global catastrophy are everywhere. The "Geological column" paints a perfect picture of this event. One world suddenly cought off guard in the midst of the greatest geological event in World History. Animals starting at the Ocean floor suddenly covered by debris and working its way up, as the surface of the Earth was literally torn to pieces, of course, as described in the Bible.

If the Bible is true then humanity is accountable for every wicked act against this world, and God has already promised His creation their revenge. Read the Book of Ezekiel.

God has some terrible plans for this Earth and those who reject Him, but He also made an escape, through His Son, Jesus Christ. Christ was a real person, and Christ really died, and by the account of over 500 people who witnessed it, Christ also arose from the dead.

God also promised those who believe that He will create a new Earth, that is restored to the perfect world this world was once. Of the many things listed, the discord between man and animal will be erased, and, as mentioned in the Bible, children will walk with wolves and not be affraid. Lions will eat with lambs and there will be complete peace... true peace.

So believe what you want. I'm wrong, well the Bible teaches us to respect the Earth, to respect people, and to respect ourselves, so it can't hurt me none, but if I am right....

Where does that leave you?

Imperfection was in the text. The message will be as you see it, unfortunatly.That is why it will have misconceptions and exagerations. Since it wasn't the same person writing it, some of the things might not coincide, either. Personally, I believe that the bible is not the word of God. It was written by man. But... The word of God is IN the bible, just not in the words. In this way, there is the bibles text, and the bibles meaning. When I said that it was imperfect, I was referring to its text. This is a tricky matter, either way you look at it. To tell you the truth, almost no one's opinion can be open. Forming your own ideas is part of religion. It is interesting to see what most people would consider "belief". Personally, I think that there is a difference between belief and faith. I believe in what the bible had to say, but I have Faith that we need not change it to fit any particular puzzle, but instead accept it as a picture. It has told us what has been, and what will be, so if you are right, it won't matter because God made us all, accepts us all, loves us all, and will care for us all. I'll have to wait and see though.

Or, I could be blowing a huge amount of steam.

[Lucid_Nightmares]

I've read the bible on more than one occasion and have even highlighted certian errors as far as self-condrodictory and the like are concerned. Most people would place me in the pagan catagory, because I do not believe, nor follow the bible. I have a hard time believe that from the old testiment to the new god became some overly forgiving perfection of what life should be. And just about every story in the bible is exacly like another story or stories from cultures and religions thousands of years older than christanity, and yet it seems to find it ok to damn everything else that does not fit into it's perfect view. I had watched a documentery on the 7 plauges of egypt and moses, and it was rather interesting how the story of moses had been completly torn apart and re-evaluated and the conclusion made was nature did it all, A valcanic eruption on an island, who's remains are currently submerged in the ocean, had been so violent that the ashes, smoke, and rock particals had blocked out the sun so much the people at the time though god was angry (thus the blacken sun part of the story), after the dust had setteled locusts had begun to appear feeding on the vegitation which had sproted from the now very fertile soil, and following their appeance, frogs and toads migrated to the area for the abundance of food. So my point being, after all that mindless rambling, is that if looked into enough, everything can be explained in a more rational way, and that god, was more or less, created as a sort of scape goat, and if god is truly real, I believe she'd be a bit angry with being a scape goat. And I write this in all respect of people who are christans, I mean no harm, just stating my thoughts on the matter.

[West]

Closing Zombie