Heroes and Monsters

[blueeyes]

What defines a hero? Is it courage, determination, the ability to fight against insurmountable odds, being the most normal in the worst situation, or simply who the camera pans around?

What makes a villain? Is it greed, powermongering, a willingness to ignore the pain of others, being a demon or a monster, or an evil laugh and a pinky at the right time?

I ask this as a poll that has no real answers; I only want to know what people find themselves thinking.

[Were-E-Wolf]

There hero or heroin of lore and Disney films are like that. Courage under odd's so great, in which they should die. Yet they alway manage to snake past the antagonists traps and live. They can raily ten thousand men to their side or only ten, either way they beat all odds. They are moral and just.
Ah, but it is the villian that the hero owes his popularity to. if it was not for the villian, the hero would still be some blacksmith or a house wife that is bored out of her mind. The villian who's greed amounts to no other. A villian who is either powerful and strikes fear into people's hearts or is so suductive of a woman, no man can withstand her exsept fot the hero. The villian is a monster, in more ways than one.
Now wait a minute, you say there is no right or wrong answer. Now listen to this idea. What if there were no villians, what if there were no hero's. It is all in the mind. Even a person doing the wrong thing can be seen as a villian in the eyes of many. The villian may seem the hero to others.
A real life example is Sadam. He did what he and many others thought was right. Yet here in the US we see it as wrong. In one place he was a hero, in another, he was a villian. The same way Bush is the hero to the Christians if he bans same sex-marriage. Yet to the ones that want it, he is a villian.
It is time people come to terms with something. There is no black and white. There is no villian and hero. It doesn't exist anywhere but the mind. And the mind is a powerful thing, I asure you, but it only exists there. No where's else does it live, no where's else does it thrive.
The world is full of shades of gray, what may seem right, has a little exseption to it, something that makes it wrong. The war on Iraq for example. We stoped a tyrant, but we didn't find the wepons we said were there (cause there aren't and I think that is truth now,) and we got oil which is basical a curency here. More non-reusable resources to consume.
I hope people understand now that the hero is a myth, and his villian counterpart is myth as well. The only relaity is that there is none except what people see in their mind. The only thing people are is human. Nothing more, nothing less. We do what we think is right while others say it is wrong. People do what they say is right while we say it isn't moral and it is only wrong.
No right, no wrong, only inbetween. Tis humans, not heros, that decide these boundys.

[LV426]

Heros and Monsters are made by individual perceptions. What may be a hero to me may be a monster to someone else.

[LycanSpectre]

Isn't this asking the same as what is good and evil?

It all depends on your point of view. If entities are acting in a way that benefits you, they are heroes, if they act in a way that harms you, they are villans. :shrug:

Generic, I know.

[blueeyes]

No, good and evil are nice, abstract, expansive values, and they tend to be applied to groups or ideals. Heroism is more toward individuals, and it is only nowhere near as abstract; this is from just as much the literary perspective as the human.

A better way of answering the question would be why are some people made to be heroes, while others are demons. For example, what seperates the good guy werewolves, the Amuros, and Vash the Stampedes from the bad guy werewolves, the Chars and the Knives.

And where does that guy in Swordfish fit in?

[MorganaFang]

Hitler was once a hero to his people...

America is villian to other Nations...

[Ender]

Hitler was once a hero to his people... America is villian to other Nations... Wait till I get into the 'game'.

[DarkHunter]

Matters of perspective only in some cases.

A person who fights for himself and no one else, who use people regardless of who they are. They could be the evil villain monsters in the sense everyone thinks of them.

The hero is the person who recognizes the villain and decides that person cannot remain free. The hero is levelheaded and will go against the odds to fix the villains wrongs.

Thats my perspective on true villains and heros.

[LV426]

But from the Villain's perspective he/she is the one that is the hero by doing away with the hero whom he/she percieves to be the Villain.

[blueeyes]

Hey, hey, hey... I said no right or wrong answers, so unless you find a special case to point out, don't attack someone else's thoughts.

And I'll take your response, MorganaFang, as saying that it's who sees the person that defines what they are. By the way, don't invoke Godwin's law without good reason.

[DarkHunter]

But from the Villain's perspective he/she is the one that is the hero by doing away with the hero whom he/she percieves to be the Villain.

What if the villain (me for instance or maybe Ender) percieves themselves as villains. What if they know their evil, their proud of it, and they aren't gonna change?

What do u gotta say about that O'(wannabe)God? The villain knows they champion only themselves. True villains don't care what anybody thinks. They just care about their goal in life.

[LV426]

What if the villain (me for instance or maybe Ender) percieves themselves as villains. What if they know their evil, their proud of it, and they aren't gonna change?

What do u gotta say about that O'(wannabe)God? The villain knows they champion only themselves. True villains don't care what anybody thinks. They just care about their goal in life.

Just because someone sees themselves as evil doesn't neccesarilly mean that they are. Perhaps by your "evil" actions you do something to benefit humanity and then people perceive you as a hero. There are many people throughout history that were pursuing a goal for their own selfish ends and ended up winning something good for others or causing a change for the better. Heros and villains walk a thin line because even those who thought they were doing right ended up making terrible mistakes that cost others quite a bit and yet the hero still tried to justify his/her actions.

As I said before it is all in the eyes of the individual not the masses.

I also think your attack on my beliefs is out of line, I don't need your approval to be a god, I already am one.

[blueeyes]

LH, wouldn't that mean it's the masses that matter? Otherwise the mercenary-turned-savior wouldn't be considered a hero, would they? Your concept does rely in most cases, but there are holes.
The debate isn't who decides what makes a hero, by the way. I just want to know what decides it and if there is any universal reasoning; why is would Ender consider himself evil, why would anyone see anyone else as a hero?

And where does that put LH, if she's so sure she is a god, and the rest of us think she's antichrist </joking>.

On a serious note, let's not call down the demons of severe moderation, and try to keep this clean ourselves.

[Ender]

I don't consider myself 'evil'. Paranoid? Yes. A slight case of megalomania? Perhaps. A drive to further humanity into space exploration at any cost? Of course. 'Evil' though? Well, it is still being debated.

[MorganaFang]

I don't consider myself 'evil'. Paranoid? Yes. A slight case of megalomania? Perhaps. A drive to further humanity into space exploration at any cost? Of course. 'Evil' though? Well, it is still being debated.

But you are a Villain, Mr. Ender...

[HiLaCha]

Heros, monster, evil... are just perceptions of people. Every single person have their own thoughts.

[blueeyes]

Then allow me to modify the question: what makes individuals find people to be heroes or monsters.

[Ender]

what makes individuals find people to be heroes or monsters. The persons action and thoughts reflect their ability to be a hero and/or monster, to me.

[blueeyes]

Uh... do you mind being more specific? What actions, what thoughts? We've already got one answer like that, along the lines of whether or not the person is helping you, but that's not really direct, and I can find a great many loop holes.

[Ender]

Uh... do you mind being more specific? Not at all, I"ll do so when I have a good few minutes to sit down and pondur it, no problem at all.

[WhiteCrowUK]

Its interesting to read all your thoughts ...

From a purely comic book perspective, a hero is usually someone who wants to "make a difference" ... but ironically is usually there just to maintain the status quo.

Frank Millar did a wonderful look at this in the Dark Knight Returns, which has two "heroes" in Superman and Batman facing off.

Pure geeky answer I know, but what do you expect? The kids all called me Mr Glass ... ;)

[MorganaFang]

Its interesting to read all your thoughts ...

From a purely comic book perspective, a hero is usually someone who wants to "make a difference" ... but ironically is usually there just to maintain the status quo.

Frank Millar did a wonderful look at this in the Dark Knight Returns, which has two "heroes" in Superman and Batman facing off.

Pure geeky answer I know, but what do you expect? The kids all called me Mr Glass ... ;)

*hugs fellow Comic geek* I wuv you...

Comic book hero is close to the actual archetype of Hero these days.

Archetype being: The window into the story... Who sacrifices something... Has a goal and a need to achieve it. Never says (he) has to but (he) has to have one to make him a hero.
Theres also the many different types of hero:
Tragic
Loner
Group
AntiHero (recently brought to poplarity with anime and Marvel copying anime, I know thats going to have the editor I know from marvel kicking my ass)

Then theres the aspects of a hero that are for the "reader", even though the hero may not achieve anything or learn anything, we are suppose to.

[WhiteCrowUK]

*hugs fellow Comic geek* I wuv you...



Nice to meet a fellow comic book geek! :)

Well the comic book heroes who kind of work the best are basically modern day versions of classic heroes.

Superman is Thor/Hercules for the space age. [Replace gods with aliens ...]

The Hulk is the werewolf of the space age. [Replace bite with the sting of a nuclear weapon - ouch]

Personally I blame Marvel comic for making be think being exposed to radioactive materials would change my life for the better ... :banghead:

[Thought]

I think that a "Hero" is someone who puts their life on the line to help others, without a thought towards any kind of reward. A person who is capable of a completely selfless action.

<This is my first post^^>

[MorganaFang]

I think that a "Hero" is someone who puts their life on the line to help others, without a thought towards any kind of reward. A person who is capable of a completely selfless action.

<This is my first post^^>

*Hordes.... I mean hugs the other comic geek*

But does a hero have to be good with that stance on things?

[Thought]

*Hordes.... I mean hugs the other comic geek*

But does a hero have to be good with that stance on things?

I don't think good or evil really enter into things with humans, we are the ultimate "grey" area, we can do things that some would consider evil, then turn around and do something good. Heroism is defined by how a person acts when someone is at risk.

A man may be responsible for killing 10 men, but if he jumps in front of a car to save a childs life, would you not call him a hero?

[spawnofFenrir]

A hero is the one that will rise above the rest and face that which others fear
A villain is the one that makes a man a hero
And "They called you Mr glass" And they called me Bruce Willis, I mean unbreakable

[LOBO REY]

The greeks defind a hero as any one who breaks the taboos and restrictions that make us human. Acting without thought of outcome. To rise above the fear of concequence. A hero dosen't have to do some thing "good". One greek hero who's name escapes me killed his father and married his Mother. A far cry from Ulesseys who took on the fury of Neptune. Each one did some thing that normal humans could or won't do.

[Darth Cluich]

The greeks defind a hero as any one who breaks the taboos and restrictions that make us human. Acting without thought of outcome. To rise above the fear of concequence. A hero dosen't have to do some thing "good". One greek hero who's name escapes me killed his father and married his Mother. A far cry from Ulesseys who took on the fury of Neptune. Each one did some thing that normal humans could or won't do.

I must admit, I'm shocked. Your definition of the Greek hero is accurate. You're right. Greek "heroes" didn't have to do good, battle evil, etc., etc.

FYI, the dad-killing/mommy-marrying guy was Oedipus.

[WhiteCrowUK]

The greeks defind a hero as any one who breaks the taboos and restrictions that make us human. Acting without thought of outcome.

I like that - though is that really a hero?

According to that definition, someone considered a hero can also be a little "mad" ... kind of like Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon I (but not the sequels), or howling mad Murdock from The A-Team.

I suppose theres some truth in it though - how many times have you heard the line "you are either the bravest man I know or the stupidest" ...

[Necro Mortis]

Can I just stress that a Hero, a true Hero is NOT I repeat NOT someone who wears their underwear on the outside?

Thank you...

There are, or at least I think, many levels to what people call heros.
I think its someone who does a self-less act to help another
OR
Somone who is idolised by the public

I belive in the first one...
Thank you please

[DamienMidgard]

I think a villin is someone who go's out of their way to make someone else unhappy..

And I think a hero is some one who Stands up for them self.....

[LOBO REY]

No an asshole goes out of his way to make others unhappy.

[Necro Mortis]

Thats right

A villan is somone who is hated by the public

Thats what I think matters with these definations as it is mainly what most people think. Any thoughts?

[COLONV]

Thats right

A villan is somone who is hated by the public

Thats what I think matters with these definations as it is mainly what most people think. Any thoughts?
Not all villains I've known aren,t hated by the public,some of them are been loved.

[Hellcat]

Villans and monsters are merely reflections of the other, and a reflection is never accurate- what is the right side to me, is my left side in my reflection and so it is with villans and heros.

[Necro Mortis]

A monster is somone from Scooby Doo called Mr Wilson ;)