Souls.

[Sorrowsong]

My belief in souls probably came from my past experience of growing up christian. I haven't been christian for the last seven years, though up until recently my belief in souls had still been around. All of that changed when I took psychology. Now that I've thought about it, we're all just empty bags of flesh, blood, and chemicals that stimulate hormones and emotions. What really makes us live? Do we really have a soul that takes a ride in a body and then leaves when the body dies? Is it really immortal? What is it that really allows us to move, think? Do anything? Is it really all just electric impulses in the brain? Does a soulmate exist? Is there even a such thing as a soul?

What do you think?

[kat]

we're all just empty bags of flesh, blood, and chemicals that stimulate hormones and emotions
Yes.

[Wolffy13]

I shall know make your head explode, or at least make ya' think :D

Explain Astral travel.

And yes, I believe in souls. For me, it's hard not to

[Klark]

I've thought about this and I've come to the conclusion that if there is a soul, it resides in the brain. If you lob off a leg or an arm, are you still you? Yes. However, if someone removes your brain and switches it, are you still you? Nope, your body will act as the other brain does because they don't think like you, so yeah, if there is one, it's in the brain.

[DarkWolf]

Explain Astral travel

Some theories of Astral Travel suggest it has nothing to do with the soul, but rather the concious manipulation of one's own energies.

The most common astral theory in parapsychology is that the astral plane is a 4th dimensional realm of energy overlaying our physical 3rd dimensional one. We have an astral self, an energy that can sometimes be seen as auras and the like, and this energy, along with the concious mind, can be projected or "imprinted" into the energies of the astral plane. The astral plane is not bound by the laws of physics that apply to our physical world. In the astral plane a projection can manipulate at will all energies surrounding them and can also utilise the 4th dimensional properties to instantaneously transport themselves from one area of the plane to the other. Time is a factor of the plane that, like all forces and energy, can be manipulated to some extent. Energy, by physical laws, is not necessarily limited to distant and thusly as projected energy one can travel any distance or manipulate energy from any distance.

So, scientific theories explain Astral Travel without use of "Souls". ;)

Personally I think there is one, but as with religion, I do not consider it in depth. If it is there, it is there, if not it is not.

Either way I am still me, so why care?

[Shandrel]

i believe in souls and soulmates. Otherwise how do we get so many differnet pesonalities? if all the brain is is electrical impulses then we would be very similar like a machine? there would be little deviation from anything.

*just my two sence*

[kat]

Erm, no. It's because the brain is an incredibly complex system of electrical and chemical impulses that we all behave differently. Our chaotic environment almost ensures that you'll never have two brains that behave the same way.

Biochemistry. Don't get me started.

[YoungFang]

"I think therefore I am." <quote summarises my thoughts on the matter at the moment.

[Wolffy13]

OK, Darkwolf, define Soul then. Personally, I always considered the soul to be energy also, if you want to get to the nitty gritty of it all. What else would a soul be?

[DarkWolf]

OK, Darkwolf, define Soul then. Personally, I always considered the soul to be energy also, if you want to get to the nitty gritty of it all. What else would a soul be?
The past excuse, such as religion, of the old to grasp the secrets of nature's will that our science has unlocked completely.

It was believed to be the immaterial and immortal entity that we held within our hearts that was the real us behind a physical shell. Our thoughts and desires were held in this entity, the spark of life, as it were.

Or perhaps merely our conciousness? Our own understanding of our viewpoint of the world around us, and of the desires our heart holds?

But then even these are merely excuses for what science has later explained. When the word of psyche came to be by the Greeks, the then leaders of the philosophical and curious, this word - later to become Soul in our language - was simply the only way they had to describe human conciousness and individuality. But is it any wonder that now, the same ancient word no longer possesses that divine meaning, and is used in modern science as a psychological term instead.

Maybe, just maybe, there is truth to the old myths? Suppose the physical shell is merely so complicated because of the soul, perhaps the soul itself is what compells evolution to make us how we are? One thing science has yet to explain, is the genesis of life itself.

Whatever the outcome of truth, that there is or isn't a soul, what does it matter? Either way, I remain who I am.

[Shandrel]

well that brings up a point, why do we obsess over souls? is it a fear of dieing, and that being it? And auras? do you see the soul or the energy surrounding the person? it is only self awareness that is considered a soul?computers now a days are just as complex as our brains, does this mean they are "alive"? as we are? will they then develope personalities and feelings? what do we calssify as a "soul" the feelings? the life? can we exist without one? would we know if we could... and what about ghosts? are they souless? conisdering they are to be souls lost...are they just energy?

[WhiteCrowUK]

Now that I've thought about it, we're all just empty bags of flesh, blood, and chemicals that stimulate hormones and emotions.

I'm not trying to argue there are souls - but this is my perspective - from my own point of view I've been mulling about this for years and still have no satisfactory answer.

What I will say is that one day we can be alive, the next we are dead. And yet you could argue our body has not changed much (talking death by natural causes not falling in a harvester here).

The important thing though is that there is something missing. We are somehow more than just a sum of our parts - else living or dead wouldnt make much difference. Our lives is driven by something intangable, a vital spark. That much I know. Whether it is immortal or not, that I have no idea ...

[Lycan Made]

Yes.
Agreed

[Sorrowsong]

Maybe, just maybe, there is truth to the old myths? Suppose the physical shell is merely so complicated because of the soul, perhaps the soul itself is what compells evolution to make us how we are? One thing science has yet to explain, is the genesis of life itself.


There are some old myths and guesses that documents have made such as Genesis from the Bible and another document from a Hindu/Buddha viewpoint. That is that the start of everything was caused by sound. There's a theory in science that states that what might have triggered the big bang or the start of life[I forget which] was caused by sound. So in some cases, there is truth in myth. But I'm not saying we should trust myths or anything.

[DarkWolf]

Sorrowsong, that is an attempt of explanation, not a factual explanation. The difference? The latter would be undeniable if it existed. The former would be theories, and nothing more until proven. I doubt strongly the occurance of time travel, so the truth behind life's genesis, is still not explained - Merely theorized.

[Wolffy13]

The past excuse, such as religion, of the old to grasp the secrets of nature's will that our science has unlocked completely.

It was believed to be the immaterial and immortal entity that we held within our hearts that was the real us behind a physical shell. Our thoughts and desires were held in this entity, the spark of life, as it were.

Or perhaps merely our conciousness? Our own understanding of our viewpoint of the world around us, and of the desires our heart holds?

But then even these are merely excuses for what science has later explained. When the word of psyche came to be by the Greeks, the then leaders of the philosophical and curious, this word - later to become Soul in our language - was simply the only way they had to describe human conciousness and individuality. But is it any wonder that now, the same ancient word no longer possesses that divine meaning, and is used in modern science as a psychological term instead.

Maybe, just maybe, there is truth to the old myths? Suppose the physical shell is merely so complicated because of the soul, perhaps the soul itself is what compells evolution to make us how we are? One thing science has yet to explain, is the genesis of life itself.

Whatever the outcome of truth, that there is or isn't a soul, what does it matter? Either way, I remain who I am.

Guess I didn't clearly state my question. I do that sometimes. :)

I appreciate that you are knowledgable in history and theories of the soul. Basically, i stand alongside Sorrowsong in the question "What Do You Think?" What do YOU, personally, believe?

After all, this is a philosophy forum. You're supposed to think and make remarks like "Whoa! That's Deep!" or "What If Life/Death/Youth/etc...." :p

P.S. Maybe it's hard for me to disbelieve in the soul because of my ghost-hunts and seemingly constant interaction with souls (term used loosely, for the sake of arguement) who have passed on

[DarkWolf]

What do YOU, personally, believe?
Maybe, just maybe, there is truth to the old myths? Suppose the physical shell is merely so complicated because of the soul, perhaps the soul itself is what compells evolution to make us how we are?
:)

[WhiteCrowUK]

P.S. Maybe it's hard for me to disbelieve in the soul because of my ghost-hunts and seemingly constant interaction with souls (term used loosely, for the sake of arguement) who have passed on

Can I ask what "interactions" these are?

Personally I have found the whole souls/God belief thing is something I've to-ed and fro-ed about.

Problem is there is not a whole lot of evidence out there to support it, or even disproove it. There have been moments like a revelation in which I feel there is something out there, but its intangable and transient that feeling, and something I cannot convey to anyone else.

So I guess its down to belief and what you want to believe.

I guess I believe in a God and a soul of sorts. I think this is the right choice for me. I was an athiest for a while, but it brought out the nihilist in me, which cannot be a good thing!

[LycanSpectre]

So I guess its down to belief and what you want to believe.

Whoa! Thats Deep! :p

I believe that a soul is the essence of a person; their personality, their energy, and the collection of their experiences. I am undecided on wether or not a soul survives after death. I'll let you know when I figure it out.

[WhiteCrowUK]

I believe that a soul is the essence of a person; their personality, their energy, and the collection of their experiences. I am undecided on wether or not a soul survives after death. I'll let you know when I figure it out.

I have a grandmother with Alzheimers, who is slowly being erased. Its sad to see her deteriorate like that.

And yet its true, even when she doesnt recognise us, she is still my grandmother. There is something obviously there which is more than brain and flesh and memories ...

[Loups_Garou]

Souls are just living breathing creatures, human or animal, we're all souls. If you're Christian and believe that the soul is some immortal spirit that resides within humans just read the bible, there are plenty more scripture against the idea than for it. In Genisis it says that God blew the breath of life into Adam and he became a living soul, not he received a living soul or anything like that, the bible also says "the soul that is sinning it itself shall die." D'OH! Think about it people! I have plenty more but I don't have the time now, I'll show em to ya later, and site them directly.

[DarkWolf]

Just because it says we have souls or are souls in some old constantly rewritten storybook, doesn't mean it is true.

Sorry but even what you quoted just sings with "this is brainwashing, we're trying to control you, please follow our words blindly, thank you."

[WhiteCrowUK]

Just because it says we have souls or are souls in some old constantly rewritten storybook, doesn't mean it is true.

Sorry but even what you quoted just sings with "this is brainwashing, we're trying to control you, please follow our words blindly, thank you."

Sorry DarkWolf, I was going to reply to Loups posting ... however instead I am surprised by your reply! Usually on here you are the one trying to calm a situation down rather than pour burning oil on it ...

Its somewhat wrong to dismiss one of the most influential books of all time (for good and bad reasons) as a "storybook". Yes the story of the bible is one of an oral tradition of morality tales which were written down many generations later and no doubt embellished a little.

Personally I would not use the bible as a source for any science text. However the book has been popular for so long - why? I think because it contains all of human nature within. It contains stories of human strength and human weaknesses.

Anyway, that said I am not a bona fide Christian myself ...

To Loups_Garou, like I say to me the Bible is strong on some things, not so great on others. You cannot expect to sway people like Dark Wolf with your arguements if they dont even accept the validity of your source! A little more thought out explaination would not go amiss!

[Loups_Garou]

You people should read more carefully. What I said was, for a "Christian" to belive that the soul is some kinda spirit is ridiculous since the bible says otherwise, and that technically the deffintition of a soul is a living creature, human or otherwise, but not a spirit that dwells inside of people and will continue on a higher plain of existence once their physical bodies die. If you want to discuss spirits that's something completely different from souls.

As for the bible being a constantly re-written "story book", yeah it kinda is. Way to many people take the bible and twist it around so that can do what they want and say that it's ok. There isn't a single friggin "Christian" religion that doesn't twist something around in one form or another. Take holidays like Easter and Christmas, those aren't Christian holidays, they were the creation of people who "converted" to Christianity tens of hundreds of years ago, but didn't want to give up their pagan celebrations and whatnot so they added a few lies about how they celebrate Jesus 'n crap. I believe in Christianity, it's just that there aren't any real Christian religions that actually follow Christs example and all that.

I'm getting beside the point though. In my belief the soul is merely a living creature. I do beleive in spirits, just not that humans or animals have spirits inside of them.

[kat]

You people should read more carefully
Perhaps you should read more carefully. The purpose of the thread was to discuss what you believe souls are and if they even exist. No one cares what the Bible says. It's pointless in this discussion if you don't believe it.

[WhiteCrowUK]

In my belief the soul is merely a living creature. I do beleive in spirits, just not that humans or animals have spirits inside of them.

That I can respect.

But its not a great idea to claim to speak for Christians if you arent one yourself (have never been one and never plan to be and didnt inhale incense as a child yada yada ;) ) ...

[Loups_Garou]

Perhaps you should read more carefully. The purpose of the thread was to discuss what you believe souls are and if they even exist. No one cares what the Bible says. It's pointless in this discussion if you don't believe it.

Once again, all I said was for a "Christian" to believe that soul are spirits is ridiculous and I stated my opinion on the matter. So just quit tryin to make me out to be some kinda bible preaching lunatic, cuz I isn't.

[blueeyes]

I don't have any particular reason to believe or not believe, so I just don't think about it. I've met a few people who have, and they try to convert me...

The best arguement I've heard is that souls are responsible for creative abilities. Although almost every other part of human choices are made by what the person has already experienced, creativity is not explained by such. That person's belief was that the soul is responsible for creativity, and thus, the soul was expressed through art and music.
I've started to believe that, since I fall at drawing stick figures, can't sculpt worth a camel's backside, and play guitar (and drums) like the strings were made of lead. But that's just what I've heard.
I think that sort of soul was just recognized as the part of you that sees things, so there is no concept of 'what it is' or afterlife.

[Necro Mortis]

Im so unsure about stuff at the moment. Souls have been known as a sort of mystical force that animates the body. How and where does this start? Do gamates have souls? If so then we would have two souls wouldnt we? in the dictionary it is the spiritual part of a person which some people believe continues to exist in some form after their body has died, or the part of a person which is not physical and experiences deep feelings and emotions. I have written a poem about souls *thinks about poetry compo and groans* and my meaning of a soul is the consciousness or thoughts of any being.

Phew, thats enough from me...

[nightstalker66]

My belief in souls probably came from my past experience of growing up christian. I haven't been christian for the last seven years, though up until recently my belief in souls had still been around. All of that changed when I took psychology. Now that I've thought about it, we're all just empty bags of flesh, blood, and chemicals that stimulate hormones and emotions. What really makes us live? Do we really have a soul that takes a ride in a body and then leaves when the body dies? Is it really immortal? What is it that really allows us to move, think? Do anything? Is it really all just electric impulses in the brain? Does a soulmate exist? Is there even a such thing as a soul?

What do you think?



hey sorrowsong psychology is to help understand how the human brain works not to find out if you believe in souls! your soul is your true elemental form!when you go into astral form some people (like myself) dont appear as our body looks but as what we truly are it takes 8 years of practice but is so fun you can do so much more!!!!!!!!

[sai-fujiwara]

<.<

>.>

*steps out onto the podium*

Ok, Ok, it's my turn to speak now.

I say that there are souls.

Why, you may ask?

(Because I am a Christian for one) I say that there is a mind (and it is not in your brain) because without one you and I would not be here to have this discussion.

(Because I am a ghost for two) :p

When the word of psyche came to be by the Greeks, the then leaders of the philosophical and curious, this word - later to become Soul in our language - was simply the only way they had to describe human conciousness and individuality. But is it any wonder that now, the same ancient word no longer possesses that divine meaning, and is used in modern science as a psychological term instead.

Thank you, most awesome DarkWolf. Yes psyche does mean that, but its webster dictionary definition is soul, self, mind. It is also a root word that means spirit, soul or mind, used in the words PSYCHOLOGY, PSYCHIC, PSYCHOMETRIC, PSYCHOANALYSIS, and PHYCHOTHERAPY.

Why do you think that the Greeks used the word PSYCHE for all three definitions? (looks up at quote) :o ah, I see that DarkWolf answered again. "It was the only way to describe human conciousness and individuality." Thank you. That brings me to the next thing I was going to say... er write.

How do you interpret the mind? Is it really as we say, just in the brain, and therefore, if moved "we" go along too? Then how do you explain brain transplants? My grandfather had to have part of his brain cut out because it was sollen and bleeding. Dos that mean that some of his soul went with it?

Our brains are just a mass of grey fat, charged up with electricity and overrun by nerves. Different points of the brain move different parts of the body. You take away an arm or a leg and several sections go dead. Does that mean that some of our minds go with it? (ah, I'll need some psychotherapy after this.)

Ok, I'm almost done. No one really knows what a soul is, or what makes us think and move. We havn't even found out why getting up and walking is physically impossible, and yet we do it.

Finally, the final question.

How do explain the internet, or something else untouchable-but-there to a blind and dumb (as in not smart) person?

*steps off the podium* Your turn.

[deVersipellis]

I believe there are souls; because, by Christian definition, a soul is the energy by which you live. A sprit is what goes to Heaven or Hell.

By mixing Christian with the scientific/paranormal definition of souls, you get what we know and love as ghosts:drool:

[VHD_Rabbit]

Ok, I'm almost done. No one really knows what a soul is, or what makes us think and move. We havn't even found out why getting up and walking is physically impossible, and yet we do it.Getting up and walking is what?

[sai-fujiwara]

Getting up and walking is what?
Yeah, there's a study in Phisics that Bumblebees technically can't fly because there is too much weight in the body, and not enough force in the wings. This same rule applies to humans. Technically we aren't strong enough to actually move because we weigh too much for our muscles to lift us up. And yet we defy all forces of logic and math and, just like those cute little bumblebees (:p), we get up and run around, jump, lift ourselves up, walk to school and to work, et cetera, et cetera.

That is one of the few times that we, just by doing regular everyday things, defy science, math, and logic/reason, reguardless if we want to or not.

[VHD_Rabbit]

If we can do something we aren't "able" to do, then obviously something was overlooked. Same with your cute little bumblebees.

[Locksmyth]

Yeah, there's a study in Phisics that Bumblebees technically can't fly because there is too much weight in the body, and not enough force in the wings. This same rule applies to humans. Technically we aren't strong enough to actually move because we weigh too much for our muscles to lift us up. And yet we defy all forces of logic and math and, just like those cute little bumblebees (:p), we get up and run around, jump, lift ourselves up, walk to school and to work, et cetera, et cetera.

That is one of the few times that we, just by doing regular everyday things, defy science, math, and logic/reason, reguardless if we want to or not.
Actually that's not true. The math used to arrive at those conclusions assumes that bees and humans are dead weight. It doesn't take into account the way we are shaped nor how we move. When you include those it becomes more then physically possible.

[sai-fujiwara]

Actually that's not true. The math used to arrive at those conclusions assumes that bees and humans are dead weight. It doesn't take into account the way we are shaped nor how we move. When you include those it becomes more then physically possible.
:mad:
my mistake. The data is correct (as in there was data actually and officially there that says that) but the problem wasn't written or done correctly and therefore the solution is whack.
:mad:
Ok, here's one for you (and yes, no matter what you THINK, this is true)
:mad:
When someone dies they loose ten pounds. like, if you got a check-up at the hospital and right aferwards you got run over (or something like that) and you died, you would loose ten pounds, BEFORE any gasses or whatever you wish to think got out.
:mad:
How in the world do you explain the loss of ten pounds if you didn't do anything to your body to make it lighter? (loss of blood, gasses, skin, organs, etc. you get the picture)
:mad:
I say that it's a soul. YOU believe what you want but I am sick and tired of people riddiculing my every response with an ignorant "that's wrong". If you believe that it is wrong, then look it up. If I'm right, DON"T SAY ANYTHING! but if i'm wrong, then give me a link or something that shows me what was wrong.

:mad: :mad: :mad:
did i mention that i'm mad?
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Locksmyth]

Sorry to make you mad but again I must point out the error.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1150835,00.h tml
The mass lost is a mere 21g not 10 pounds.

The only doctor to find this is Duncan MacDougall as indicated in the above post. I found the paper on the sheep (http://www.scientificexplor ation.org/jse/articles/pdf/15.4_hollander.pdf) frankly the "Society for Scientific Exploration" sound dubious. Again it's only 19 - 780 grams (either increase or decrease) and apparently not permanent.
I'll say there is some degree of error in that "experiment" and just like MacDougall's experiment the sample is too small (MacDougall tested 6 people, this mob did 12 animals and discarded the results of at least 3 of them.)
If these experiments are indeed valid then there is 21 grams worth of soul or possibly around 21g worth of gas released from a dieing patient at the time of death.

EDIT:
How do you interpret the mind? Is it really as we say, just in the brain, and therefore, if moved "we" go along too? Then how do you explain brain transplants? My grandfather had to have part of his brain cut out because it was sollen and bleeding. Dos that mean that some of his soul went with it?

Our brains are just a mass of grey fat, charged up with electricity and overrun by nerves. Different points of the brain move different parts of the body. You take away an arm or a leg and several sections go dead. Does that mean that some of our minds go with it? (ah, I'll need some psychotherapy after this.)
Sorry to do this again, but you'll find the mind (largely) resides in the frontal lobe. People used to have this part of the brain removed or separated from the rest of the brain in an effort to control their behaviour. Usually people that were too outrageous, such as people that didn't like being servants, or woman that got pregnant to the wrong nobleman.

The victims, sorry patients, of these procedures changed completely. Mostly they sat in their cells and drooled. However, they weren't always brain dead but they always lost their personality and individuality. You could talk to them, but they never got happy, or excited, or sad, or upset. They stopped making trouble and were thus cured.

Edit: Edit:
I am sick and tired of people riddiculing my every response with an ignorant "that's wrong".
If you don't want people saying you are wrong all the time. I would recommend you get out and start reading some literature by people without an agenda, and make sure not to read too much into anything you find on the net. Try actual books by actual scientific establishments, not religious establishments that take pseudo-scientific names to give themselves a false sense of authority.
Even if you did a short search on what you believe to be true would help, as exampled by your 10 pounds statement above. When the actual pseudo-data is 21g you rob yourself of any credibility.

[Xavious]

I believe in souls and I believe that every living creature possesses one. I believe the spirit is nothing more than an 'energy' living within us that is a mirror image of ourself.

[sai-fujiwara]

Sorry to make you mad but again I must point out the error.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1150835,00.h tml
The mass lost is a mere 21g not 10 pounds.

The only doctor to find this is Duncan MacDougall as indicated in the above post. I found the paper on the sheep (http://www.scientificexplor ation.org/jse/articles/pdf/15.4_hollander.pdf) frankly the "Society for Scientific Exploration" sound dubious. Again it's only 19 - 780 grams (either increase or decrease) and apparently not permanent.
I'll say there is some degree of error in that "experiment" and just like MacDougall's experiment the sample is too small (MacDougall tested 6 people, this mob did 12 animals and discarded the results of at least 3 of them.)
If these experiments are indeed valid then there is 21 grams worth of soul or possibly around 21g worth of gas released from a dieing patient at the time of death.

EDIT:

Sorry to do this again, but you'll find the mind (largely) resides in the frontal lobe. People used to have this part of the brain removed or separated from the rest of the brain in an effort to control their behaviour. Usually people that were too outrageous, such as people that didn't like being servants, or woman that got pregnant to the wrong nobleman.

The victims, sorry patients, of these procedures changed completely. Mostly they sat in their cells and drooled. However, they weren't always brain dead but they always lost their personality and individuality. You could talk to them, but they never got happy, or excited, or sad, or upset. They stopped making trouble and were thus cured.

Edit: Edit:

If you don't want people saying you are wrong all the time. I would recommend you get out and start reading some literature by people without an agenda, and make sure not to read too much into anything you find on the net. Try actual books by actual scientific establishments, not religious establishments that take pseudo-scientific names to give themselves a false sense of authority.
Even if you did a short search on what you believe to be true would help, as exampled by your 10 pounds statement above. When the actual pseudo-data is 21g you rob yourself of any credibility.
Next time, just pm me

OH! I forgot to mention. A good friend of mine is taking anatomy, and right now is studing the brain. She won't leave me alone about it. So, I do know at least half of what I'm talking about. I only mentioned the brain part because of someone elses post before mine. Sorry if you thought that that was all me.

Another thing. I didn't know the exact weight that you loose when you die, so I just said ten lbs.

Sorry to be kind of full of myself, but I do apreciate you setting me, and anyone fool enough to believe me, straight. I think that I'll be seeing alot more of you latter on. CHAO!

[deVersipellis]

Off and yet still on the subject... people say, "I don't look at them when I do, I look in their souls." When I say that I usualy laugh, but I wondered why people say that?

[NizGarouPrincess]

"it resides in the brain..."

Interesting therory, but havent you heard of pranic energy? ;)
Only chemical stimulents reside in the brain. There is, in fact, a soul.

[DarkWolf]

There is, in fact, a soul.It's a proven fact!? Where's that proof, then?

Oh, wait, it's not proven. Yet you call it fact. What an interesting interpretation of the word whilst simultaneously being a complete disregard for it's definition and usage. How absolutely fascinating.

[sai-fujiwara]

interestingly enough I ran across this quote while reading The Miracle Worker.

"At another time she asked, 'What is a soul?' 'No one knows,' I replied; 'but we know it is the not the body, and it is that part of us which thinks and loves and hopes.' ... [and] is invisible...'But if I write what my soul thinks,' she said, 'then it will be visible, and the words will be its body.'"

-Annie Sullivan, 1891

Think about that.

[Scary-soul]

I don't recall seeing my soul taking a walk outside me :P, but I can surely approve the fact that a soul can be materialized.

Just think of emotions, like love...
There's a bond between each soul on this planet, and when one of them is attracted to another one, there is a WAR of emotions, you lose control of your mind and start doing everything you think is good to get to the other. Like writing poem, singing a song, try to look strong and proud. This is not the mind, but the soul that physically manifest its presence, just to tell you that you can push yourself to accomplish the impossible.

So yes, there is a soul in each of us. Personnaly I think there's a feeling of having a soul, you know... the weird feeling of being here in this place at this time.

[VHD_Rabbit]

So it physically manifests into what, chemicals in my brain?

[Scary-soul]

So it physically manifests into what, chemicals in my brain?

No, you haven't red carefully my friend...
The physical manifest , for example... love, is that you have a urge to prove the loved one that you are here and you want her.
Like writing a poem... It's pretty physical, to me. And you'd have probably felt that once in your life.

The manifest is the action, of course to complete an action you need neurotic acting in your brain, like everyone, but who did start all this... the soul did it, by activating your emotionnal section in your brain,

I think that the soul is in fact ourself, controlling a body of ours.

[VHD_Rabbit]

This is based on . . .

[biteakashka]

No, you haven't red carefully my friend...
The physical manifest , for example... love, is that you have a urge to prove the loved one that you are here and you want her.
Like writing a poem... It's pretty physical, to me. And you'd have probably felt that once in your life.

The manifest is the action, of course to complete an action you need neurotic acting in your brain, like everyone, but who did start all this... the soul did it, by activating your emotionnal section in your brain,

I think that the soul is in fact ourself, controlling a body of ours.
I agree i believe that your soul is your whole being and not just situated in the brain. Have you heard the stories or seen the pictures of people who have lost limbs and had an aura photo or scan and the lost limb can be seen? :p

[Scary-soul]

I've seen many of them, to the point of really thinking that it is , in fact, a part of our spirit. But I still need to be sure!

Everybody thinks that the brain is the master of the body, that he control everything, even your tought. I say no, I think that the brain is the command center, were YOU can control all your body, from a blink to a kick. The brain is like a computer, we are in front of it typing things and sending orders, and he accomplish them. Of course there are reflex, but this is only a security for invaders (like a firewall). So we are here, controlling a body, and (like I said before) receiving emotionnal impulsions from our very unconsciousness soul.

[biteakashka]

I've seen many of them, to the point of really thinking that it is , in fact, a part of our spirit. But I still need to be sure!

Everybody thinks that the brain is the master of the body, that he control everything, even your tought. I say no, I think that the brain is the command center, were YOU can control all your body, from a blink to a kick. The brain is like a computer, we are in front of it typing things and sending orders, and he accomplish them. Of course there are reflex, but this is only a security for invaders (like a firewall). So we are here, controlling a body, and (like I said before) receiving emotionnal impulsions from our very unconsciousness soul.
When you talk of security do you mean in a sense of phychic vampirism? Its another interesting topic and one i believe to be true, i think everyboby has been a victim or p/v at some point. People feed off the energy and emotions of others all the time go to a party and people are in a good mood you feel that the same when someone is happy or depressed. :eek: :p :eek:

[Scary-soul]

When you talk of security do you mean in a sense of phychic vampirism? Its another interesting topic and one i believe to be true, i think everyboby has been a victim or p/v at some point. People feed off the energy and emotions of others all the time go to a party and people are in a good mood you feel that the same when someone is happy or depressed. :eek: :p :eek:


I vastly agree with you, I often feel like that.
You know, when somebody is feeling sad, and just by thinkin about him and wanting him to feel better , or worst, and it happened. It's a communication between two souls, and this is an ability that can be improved by practicing.

[VHD_Rabbit]

A) You don't "control all your body".

B) This baseless speculation is pointless. Goodbye.

[Scary-soul]

A) You don't "control all your body".

B) This baseless speculation is pointless. Goodbye.


I'm not based on scientific studies, and all that crap.
I'm based on personnal experience, cause I don't beleive in that kind of science who is trying to tell how everybody are!!!
I am not a believer, but a thinker. Feel free to not believe to what I am saying. The real deal my friend, is to understand how everybody feels, think and live, and then, you'll be able to tell what all of us is dying to know.

[ShadesNightmare]

There is this one religon that believes that your souls is stored in boh your head and heart. and when you die, the soul joins and leaves. The idea is that your brain and your heart are the strongest organs. your brain thinks things though, manages everything, so that is the wisdom part and yourr eart is the center of the emotional. as for wether or not we have souls. well we must. Else we;d be just like every one else.

[biteakashka]

I'm not based on scientific studies, and all that crap.
I'm based on personnal experience, cause I don't beleive in that kind of science who is trying to tell how everybody are!!!
I am not a believer, but a thinker. Feel free to not believe to what I am saying. The real deal my friend, is to understand how everybody feels, think and live, and then, you'll be able to tell what all of us is dying to know.
I definitly agree with you there science does not hold the answer to everything it cant. Too many people take science as a be all and end all but alot of it is just theory and never actuallty put into practice but people still believe it to be fact and its not. :eek: :p :eek:

[VHD_Rabbit]

well we must. Else we;d be just like every one else.

How do you know?

I definitly agree with you there science does not hold the answer to everything it cant.

I'd like to see you come up with any way to find "the answer to everything". And for the sake of it, I'd like to see why you think "it can't".

Too many people take science as a be all and end all but alot of it is just theory and never actuallty put into practice but people still believe it to be fact and its not.

You don't know how science works, do you? Do you even know what it involves? Of course a lot of "it" is theory! The idea is to prove or disprove the theories (in other words, learn something). And as for "believe it to be fact and it's not", there's my dose of irony for today.

[biteakashka]

How do you know?



I'd like to see you come up with any way to find "the answer to everything". And for the sake of it, I'd like to see why you think "it can't".



You don't know how science works, do you? Do you even know what it involves? Of course a lot of "it" is theory! The idea is to prove or disprove the theories (in other words, learn something). And as for "believe it to be fact and it's not", there's my dose of irony for today.
Its wrong of you to assume i dont know how science works or know what is involved. If it could be proved beyond a doubt and in an entirely convincing way, if it could be proved scientifically that life and love are eternal how different would your life be? but the truth is as it stands at the moment they cannot find answers to alot of supernatual goings on so more often than not scientists discount material because they have no clue. As for believe it to be fact and its not - has science really proved that jesus lived and done what he done? this does not stop people believing in something that may possibly not be factual. :eek: :eek:

[biteakashka]

I vastly agree with you, I often feel like that.
You know, when somebody is feeling sad, and just by thinkin about him and wanting him to feel better , or worst, and it happened. It's a communication between two souls, and this is an ability that can be improved by practicing.
How do you control or improve your ability? hope i hear from you and not that little rabbit i dont think he shares are views. :p :p :p

[Scary-soul]

How do you control or improve your ability?

You have to listen to other's feeling.
I just look mentally at someone I know, and try to understand why he is feeling ... Sad, for example... And I try to know the reason and the cure for this feeling. If I find something that can put a smile on is face and make him forgot his sadness, I do it; By telling him a joke or whatever it'll be. And next time you see him sad, you'll know what to do! So try to focus your cure on him, by any means possible, like telling 'the joke in your head' and wanting him to hear it, thinking of something happy in your head and wanting him to see it, whatever is the cure. If it works, well you just made his day! After lots of practicing, you'll be able to just look at him for second, and he'll already feels better.

It can be made 'inversely', like making somebody unhappy.

The path of your goal may be changed drasticaly depending of your 'karma'. Like if you put everybody that hates you in the same room, and try to put a smile on them, well then you'll have lots of work to do!

They say that a happy though in someone's head is VERY contagious. No wonder, these people have sharpened this ability.

[VHD_Rabbit]

Its wrong of you to assume i dont know how science works or know what is involved. If you want me to assume any different, maybe you should sound like you have a clue what you're talking about. Maybe even start to write coherently.

If it could be proved beyond a doubt and in an entirely convincing way, if it could be proved scientifically that life and love are eternal how different would your life be? If life and love were eternal? The first word that springs to mind is "overpopulated".

but the truth is as it stands at the moment they cannot find answers to alot of supernatual goings on so more often than not scientists discount material because they have no clue. So because "they" can't find an answer to something yet, you just make one up? Yeah, that makes so much sense.

As for believe it to be fact and its not - has science really proved that jesus lived and done what he done? this does not stop people believing in something that may possibly not be factual. You almost make it sound like believing it makes it so.

[biteakashka]

If you want me to assume any different, maybe you should sound like you have a clue what you're talking about. Maybe even start to write coherently.

If life and love were eternal? The first word that springs to mind is "overpopulated".

So because "they" can't find an answer to something yet, you just make one up? Yeah, that makes so much sense.

You almost make it sound like believing it makes it so.
Im just going to assume that you are a 17 year old kid who has no clue. Ive looked at your other messages that you have posted and all i see is criticism so do you acually have any opinion about souls or are you just on this tread to slag off everyone elses? :mad:

[Scary-soul]

I've just red the Rabbit's post on the soul thread...and I can say that...

He is quite a cunning Boy, Saying things that can stand in any controvercial conversation... I assume you can talk the talk Mister, But you lack some tact, you try to pound everybody that stand in your way. Try to be comprehensive, and even if the others may be wrong, try to learn something out of it, you can always learn by listening to others. Even if someone is angry at you, You 'll learn how to deal with him.

[Dog of Heaven]

Keep this in mind: If you are only composed of flesh and blood, than as soon as you die, your non-exsistent. There has to be somthing that contains your thoughts, ideas, moods, and actions after you die. What's the point of life if you don't have something to look forward to after death?

[deVersipellis]

Keep this in mind: If you are only composed of flesh and blood, than as soon as you die, your non-exsistent. There has to be somthing that contains your thoughts, ideas, moods, and actions after you die. What's the point of life if you don't have something to look forward to after death?

Isn't that from a movie?

[VHD_Rabbit]

Im just going to assume that you are a 17 year old kid who has no clue. Ive looked at your other messages that you have posted and all i see is criticism so do you acually have any opinion about souls or are you just on this tread to slag off everyone elses? So in other words you can't back up anything you said at all.

Keep this in mind: If you are only composed of flesh and blood, than as soon as you die, your non-exsistent. Yep.

There has to be somthing that contains your thoughts, ideas, moods, and actions after you die. Why?

What's the point of life if you don't have something to look forward to after death? Whatever point you make of it.

[biteakashka]

So in other words you can't back up anything you said at all.

Yep.

Why?

Whatever point you make of it.
Whats your point in life being the angry kid?

[VHD_Rabbit]

Whats your point in life being the angry kid? I don't know: I'm not angry.

Still no point to make?

[biteakashka]

I don't know: I'm not angry.

Still no point to make?
Im not quite sure what you want me to say? you should know my views i believe in souls the afterlife dont hold too much faith in science. What points do you want me to make? Interested to know do you have a belief in anything? its all very well rubbishing others opinions but what are yours? and i dont just mean replying to this message and being critical what is YOUR opinion on life and what happens after?

[VHD_Rabbit]

Im not quite sure what you want me to say? Prove something.

What points do you want me to make? Reasons, evidence.

Interested to know do you have a belief in anything? Anything? Sure, I believe the sky is blue. Except at night, when it's black, or at sunset, when it's orange, and so on.

and i dont just mean replying to this message and being critical what is YOUR opinion on life and what happens after? You'll have to be more specific on "life". It's a broad subject.

As for what happens "after": the same thing that was happening before, only that one swarm of cells is no longer a participant. Your cells die, you lose the consciousness that their collective bodies provided, and we bury you. Because that is what we see. Not what's written in a book, or what we find in the back of our mind -- which is hardly reliable -- but what we observe.

[biteakashka]

Prove something.

Reasons, evidence.

Anything? Sure, I believe the sky is blue. Except at night, when it's black, or at sunset, when it's orange, and so on.

You'll have to be more specific on "life". It's a broad subject.

As for what happens "after": the same thing that was happening before, only that one swarm of cells is no longer a participant. Your cells die, you lose the consciousness that their collective bodies provided, and we bury you. Because that is what we see. Not what's written in a book, or what we find in the back of our mind -- which is hardly reliable -- but what we observe.
Do you actually realise what you are asking ok i will pack my bags and go hunting thats not the point to a belief system its to regard as true have faith. No one at this point can prove the existents of souls and the afterlife but that does not stop people believing and you know this so please stop trying to be clever and stop asking silly questions.I see that you believe in sarcasm how sweet. As for your last remark wow you should try kids partys

[VHD_Rabbit]

There, you admitted you can't prove a damn thing. Don't you feel better now?

No one at this point can prove the existents of souls and the afterlife but that does not stop people believing and you know this so please stop trying to be clever and stop asking silly questions.

I know this. So what? Thousands of children believe in the tooth fairy, that doesn't make it so. You've got nothing. At least some people would try to come up with an argument.

[biteakashka]

There, you admitted you can't prove a damn thing. Don't you feel better now?



I know this. So what? Thousands of children believe in the tooth fairy, that doesn't make it so. You've got nothing. At least some people would try to come up with an argument.
Thats it an argument thats all you want and to be quite honest i would rather share my views with someone that hasnt got such a closed mind.

[VHD_Rabbit]

My mind is open to proof and evidence. I even listen to theories, if they are based on something real. What you want is someone who belives you without question.

Well, you're in luck, the world is full of them.

[Dog of Heaven]

The post I put up was not from a movie, I came up with it myself.
Also, souls are real. If you die and your non-exsistent anymore, what is the point of remembering the person that died? So we should just trash everything about people's lives in history because there extinct and there is no point in looking into those who are gone?

[DarkWolf]

I don't think saying "souls are real" just because you think there should be more to life than decay and entropy (probably not the right word to use, but I think it fairly suffices).

Personally I do believe in souls. I'm not sure why. It's most likely a belief I have because I don't like the concept of my personality and mind being little more than neurotransmitters and electricity running through synapses. But at least I'm able to understand that my belief system is flawed - I have no logic to back it up and must accept that it's most likely just a mask of denial I put up due to a negative preference - in the same way your beliefs in an afterlife may be just because you don't like the idea you'll no longer be conciously existent and will be reduced to nothing but decaying cells, rotting flesh, and nutrients being eaten and absorbed by creepy crawlies and surrounding plants.

The difference is: whether you understand a belief is a belief not a truth or assume that just because you believe makes it a truth. I think the point VHD_Rabbit is trying to make: just because you have this belief to cushion a negative preference ('a dislike in something' - yes I'm longwinded) doesn't mean it is thus true and greatly possible and something everyone should believe in - nor should the alternative to that cushion (disbelieving in an afterlife) be depressing or sad.

Why is it so horrible to think of there being no afterlife? That's then, why not try just focusing on the now - perhaps all those memories you acquire are meaningless in the end, but then are they all that meaningful now? Anyway, you're not dead yet so shut up and live (I say it this way to make a point, not to be harsh).

Think of it this way: before you were born you were just a jelly-mass of cells. Before then you were part egg and part sperm. Before then you were just random tidbits of sugar-sequences in two peoples' genetics. Before then you didn't exist. In hindsight did you find that non-existence terrible and horrible? No, because you didn't exist to be aware of the nothingness, it simply was not a factor. So you're returning to that non-existence, fine, but you're existent now, aren't you? So enjoy now, what difference does it make how you're remembered or whatever - you're not going to be able to care. It shouldn't be about what something meant to the past, or to the future, it should be what means to you now.

You're not immortal, you're going to die, and whether there's an afterlife or not - your belief in either is not going to change a darn thing. You may want to have a cushion belief system but that's up to you. Personally, I don't care if I end up non-existent, I'm enjoying my life now because I'm only conciously aware of the now. And I'd rather live the now in happiness than depression. What's so sad about that belief over believing in an afterlife?

[VHD_Rabbit]

I'm glad to see there are people here who aren't beyond actually thinking about their own beliefs.

[Scary-soul]

Dark wolf is making a point there,
The human can't stop thinking about why, how , then , when and where... A the point of ''forgeting'' that we have a life. So my final words on this thread...

Just sit back and enjoy the show.


-A Tormented Being

[biteakashka]

Dark wolf is making a point there,
The human can't stop thinking about why, how , then , when and where... A the point of ''forgeting'' that we have a life. So my final words on this thread...

Just sit back and enjoy the show.


-A Tormented Being
Its not that i dont appreciate what Dark Wolf is saying but this was a thread to discuss souls peoples beliefs in the matter. What i didnt like was vhd-rabbit judging me on my beliefs i shouldnt have to justify what i believe in.

[VHD_Rabbit]

i shouldnt have to justify what i believe in. I may hold you to that view someday.

[biteakashka]

I may hold you to that view someday.
Go ahead but i still wont justify myself i have my beliefs some will agree some wont but no one should have to prove what they believe in. Like i have said before people believe in god/jesus but where is the proof? nothing will change there view because its what they believe have faith in. No one has said that whatever someone believes has to be a proven fact. :eek: :p :eek:

[moonshadow]

Hi :wavey:

[XWOLFX]

My belief in souls probably came from my past experience of growing up christian. I haven't been christian for the last seven years, though up until recently my belief in souls had still been around. All of that changed when I took psychology. Now that I've thought about it, we're all just empty bags of flesh, blood, and chemicals that stimulate hormones and emotions. What really makes us live? Do we really have a soul that takes a ride in a body and then leaves when the body dies? Is it really immortal? What is it that really allows us to move, think? Do anything? Is it really all just electric impulses in the brain? Does a soulmate exist? Is there even a such thing as a soul?

What do you think?

Yes I believe in the soul. Yes our body is flesh and blood, and impusles in our brains, but what allows us to have personalities different from others. Some may say that it is from growing up and experiences, but even when a baby is just born it has a different personality than others. Some cry more, some smile more, some sleep more, some are quite, some are loud, some are smart. Where else could they devolope personalities like that other than from experiences that they had before? That is a little logic on what I think. I'm sure I could think of more evidence, but that is what I believe. You may believe different.

[VHD_Rabbit]

Go ahead but i still wont justify myself i have my beliefs some will agree some wont but no one should have to prove what they believe in. Like i have said before people believe in god/jesus but where is the proof? nothing will change there view because its what they believe have faith in. No one has said that whatever someone believes has to be a proven fact. :eek: :p :eek:
Did you miss the point or are you just ranting because I won't accept your unproven opinions as fact?

[biteakashka]

Did you miss the point or are you just ranting because I won't accept your unproven opinions as fact?
I dont care one bit that you dont agree, believe it or not its not the first time ive come across people with your views and you wont be the last. As for me ranting why dont you give up suggesting that these are only my beliefs many share my views and also if you read my reply properly i state at the end that belief does NOT have to be a proven fact. I did not join this discussion board to be judged or have people try to belittle me because of my beliefs and views.

[biteakashka]

Yes I believe in the soul. Yes our body is flesh and blood, and impusles in our brains, but what allows us to have personalities different from others. Some may say that it is from growing up and experiences, but even when a baby is just born it has a different personality than others. Some cry more, some smile more, some sleep more, some are quite, some are loud, some are smart. Where else could they devolope personalities like that other than from experiences that they had before? That is a little logic on what I think. I'm sure I could think of more evidence, but that is what I believe. You may believe different.
Have you by any chance read a book called the After Life Experiments by Dr Gary.E.Schwartz it is a must own for anyone interested in souls and the afterlife. This book is done by two scientists who are well respected in the scientific world which it is why its such a good book and is backed all the way by scientific evidence( you should try this VHD-RABBIT might just surprise you) The fact that the two researchers had no belief in the afterlife with the data that they collected had to agree that something was going on more than neurology can explain. :p :wavey:

[VHD_Rabbit]

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_1_27/ai_95501840

This one?

[biteakashka]

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_1_27/ai_95501840

This one?
What is it? :shrug:

[VHD_Rabbit]

A review . . .

[biteakashka]

Just had alook at the review i hadnt actually seen it before with something like afterlife experiments is there really going to be a full proof way to do it especially with an investigation like this one it will always come under critical review. It would be such a revelation if at some point in the future this topic was 100% proven right or wrong and i understand skepticism and everyone should have a healthy dose of it there are too many people getting stung by cold readers, fortune tellers and so on but to me not everyone of them can be a fraud but thats my opinion. :wavey:

[DarkWolf]

Its not that i dont appreciate what Dark Wolf is saying but this was a thread to discuss souls peoples beliefs in the matter.And my post stated anything to the contrary... how? I was fully and completely on topic - discussing mine and others beliefs on the subject of souls, as well as this sub-topic of existence and after-life.

[biteakashka]

And my post stated anything to the contrary... how? I was fully and completely on topic - discussing mine and others beliefs on the subject of souls, as well as this sub-topic of existence and after-life.
Sorry misunderstanding on my part :p

[XWOLFX]

Have you by any chance read a book called the After Life Experiments by Dr Gary.E.Schwartz it is a must own for anyone interested in souls and the afterlife. This book is done by two scientists who are well respected in the scientific world which it is why its such a good book and is backed all the way by scientific evidence( you should try this VHD-RABBIT might just surprise you) The fact that the two researchers had no belief in the afterlife with the data that they collected had to agree that something was going on more than neurology can explain. :p :wavey:

I'm sorry, I don't really understand your point that much, are you agree or disagreeing with me? Because I havn't read the book and I honestly don't care what a scientist says on this matter because there really is no way to prove or disprove afterlife because some people imagine things and say that they were once real, while others say that they were imagining something and it wasn't real. There is no way to debunk it or prove it right, IMO.

[ThrasherCub]

I honestly don't care what a scientist says on this matter because there really is no way to prove or disprove afterlife because some people imagine things and say that they were once real, while others say that they were imagining something and it wasn't real. There is no way to debunk it or prove it right, IMO.
I'm too tired to explain all the problems with this statement. You just clearly need to read more Plato. You, go read Timaeus and Critias before you post again. Your post can be boiled down to "ignore science, because we're too stupid to use it right." Science is begining to get a grasp on this metaphysical stuff, and even if it hadn't, science is a way of thinking more than anything else.

I disagree with Dark Wolf's stand on souls, but I'm going after you because you said "I don't care what the only doctrine we have on reality says on this matter." That you absolutely refuse to apply the study of reality to your standpoint on souls does nothing but indicate that your standpoint is not in accordance with reality - if it were, why not just point at the supporting evidence?

In closing: you just made a great argument on why so many people who believe in souls are dismissed as stupid - they are.

[biteakashka]

I'm sorry, I don't really understand your point that much, are you agree or disagreeing with me? Because I havn't read the book and I honestly don't care what a scientist says on this matter because there really is no way to prove or disprove afterlife because some people imagine things and say that they were once real, while others say that they were imagining something and it wasn't real. There is no way to debunk it or prove it right, IMO.
I dont understand you, for someone who says they believe in souls you dont really come across that way. I believe in souls but i still have to for myself accept that science has proved that the brain is responsible for things which people have experienced (supernatual) but science has proved otherwise. To ignore the facts which are right in front of you is ignorance. You need to do more research on the scientific views many things which i thought beyond a doubt to be of supernatual nature can be explained through science and i cant argue with that, but it has not changed me i still believe we have souls and there is an afterlife but i cannot dismiss the facts.Would you still have this view on scientists if they all got together and proved we have souls? Its a very bold statement saying there is really no way to prove or disprove this subject concidering you seem to have made no effort to associate yourself with any scientific book on this subject go read then come back later. :shrug:

[biteakashka]

I really hope i dont fall into the stupid category Thrashercub? i dont want to get nasty and say you dance like a girl(only joking) :wavey:

[ThrasherCub]

Besides the fact that I am a girl, I never said anyone was stupid. To believe in something and completely ignore what science says on the subject is stupid. It just also happens to be what most happens a to a good number of people who believe in souls. They come to the (somewhat inccorect) conclusion that science can have nothing good to say about souls, and as such, elect not to learn about what science says on the topic, usually without realizing that the motive for this is fear that their beliefs will be broken.

And you, biteakashka, do not come accross as stupid. Young maybe, and like you probably haven't taken a lot of Humanities classes, but not stupid. Even when you are wrong, you put in considerable effort and show that you're on the right track.

[biteakashka]

Besides the fact that I am a girl, I never said anyone was stupid. To believe in something and completely ignore what science says on the subject is stupid. It just also happens to be what most happens a to a good number of people who believe in souls. They come to the (somewhat inccorect) conclusion that science can have nothing good to say about souls, and as such, elect not to learn about what science says on the topic, usually without realizing that the motive for this is fear that their beliefs will be broken.

And you, biteakashka, do not come accross as stupid. Young maybe, and like you probably haven't taken a lot of Humanities classes, but not stupid. Even when you are wrong, you put in considerable effort and show that you're on the right track.
I dont want to come across as a dumb arse but explain the humanities side to it please. Im not being picky but where have i been wrong? these are my beliefs and opinions so technically no one is in the wrong but they may differ from your opinions. I was only kidding before i didnt know you were female hope i didnt offend you,assume you shouldnt till you learn the truth. :wavey:

[sabrina_lycaulf]

Hey, don't take it too hardly... I'm a Christian and that doesn't stop me from believing in the Holy Spirit and learning about souls... Anyway, I know the soul exists! :p