About Prayer

[Xzengrim]

Okay... So let's assume for a minute, in defiance of my normal ravings, that the Christian god is real, and that if you pray, he will hear you...

First of all, God is so much better than you it's not even funny. You're not fit to look at him, or shine his shoes!! How dare you address him who is your own GOD? You're not worthy to speak to him! You aren't worth his time!

Secondly, he already made the whole universe and everything in it, as well as gave you everything in your life. How dare you ask him for stuff?? What do you need? More stuff?! Stop bothering the Almighty with your ignorant piddly-crap!

Thirdly, presumably, God has some sort of perfect plan for the universe. WHat makes you think you should ask for stuff or give him suggestions? Again, you are SO not worthy! You should be grateful for everything that's already happened and that you're even alive. Don't pray for more stuff!

So yeah. If the ALmighty was real, I'd be friggin terrified of him, and I certainly wouldn't want to tap him on the shoulder and ask him for stuff.

Lastly, because it's Lent... Do you have a favorite part of the Trinity? I know they're the same person! But pick one! My favorite is Jesus, because I like the idea of having a deity I can touch. I could pat him on the back, or shake his hand, or eat lunch with him. That would be pretty sweet.

Really lastly, what do you suppose happened to Jesus after he died, but before he was resurrected? I don't know. But I like to imagine that he was in torment in Hell. Not because I don't like Jesus, but because I find it compelling that (supposedly) he didn't just take up the burden of sin, he also took up the burden of being human for a time. It makes me think he can understand being human, because he'd give it a try. Thus, I think he should also give damnation a try, because that is concievably part of being human (if you do it the wrong way). Or maybe it's just logic... he already DID heaven and earth, there's only one more thing to see.

At any rate, these are my ravings upon having seen a made for TV movie about the life and times of Jesus. Please post comments or ravings.

[Ves]

Really lastly, what do you suppose happened to Jesus after he died, but before he was resurrected?
I daresay a few things went through his head while he lay there dead to the world as it were...
"It's a bit chilly in here".
"This shroud is itchy, I know I'll bugger about with the carbon in it so in the future they'll think it was made in the 12th century, that'll teach the smartass bastards"
"2000 bottles of beer on the wall.."
"I knew I should have gone to the bathroom before I left home".

Her Majesty the Queen of Britain, Elizabeth the Second *Dan stands up and salutes* played an excellent trick on one of her head priests, ministers, vicars, whatever at about this time one year. He was chatting to her and she offered him a drink of the alchoholic variety. He politely accepted and poured him whatever it was. He took a sip and asked Her Majesty "Ma'am are you not having a drink?" "No", she replied, "It's Lent", thus putting the poor vicar right in his place. Apparently she has a playful sense of humour like that, God bless her :D

[Hellcat]

personally (being non christian) i can't see the point in praying. My belief is whatever is going to happen will happen whether you pray or not.

[LycanSpectre]

Just for the sake of playing devil's advocate, or in this case, God's advocate, what if God wanted us to ask him for stuff, to do stuff for us, or to talk to us? What if that was our whole purpose here, to make God feel useful?

Whatever.

Being an Agnostic, I tend think that whatever powers that be just do whatever they want, regardless of our desires and wants. I rarely pray, and when I do, its more for my own benefit and comfort than an actual entreaty to a diety. (Hey, that rhymes! :D)

[J.L.R.]

Xzen it is like this. God is our spiritual Father. Just like any Father, He wants us to ask Him questions. He wants us to come to Him for advice. In other words, God wants us to talk to Him. You see when you go to God for advice, needs, wants, ect., you are putting your trust in Him, that He, knowing everything anyway, will do what is best for you.

Yeah, He is the creator, and is far better than us all, but He doesn't act like that.

I pray all the time, and a constant prayer life does work. That doesn't mean everything I want I get, but it does mean that every need I have, He has taken care of. It has always amazed me that I always have the money to pay my bills. There have been months where my job just busted, but come bill time, somehow, somewhere, the money for the bills comes through. God is good like that.

As for Trinity... Well Xzen you have it right. All three are One. They are basically parts of God's collective personality. God the Father is the Mind, The Holy Ghost is the Spirit or soul, and Jesus is the Flesh. You can't have one without the other, and visa versa.

[Aquilan]

God is there for you, not the other way around. God is about love, and it doesn't matter if you are worth cow crap or not, because he is there for you. Logic doesn't play a big part in love, and if you have ever been in it, you would know. It would be like your mom killing you, so she didn't have to feed you or buy you stuff. After all, all you did as a baby was cry a poop and suck precious money away, so why didn't she? It's the same type of deal here. We pray, because that is all we are. Sure, there are some people who will pray: "OH GOD!! Dear Lord, please, please, PLEASE let me win the lottery!" But there are some, who pray for a better thing, like inner strength, or a person's soul, or whatever. Because we are human, we need these things, just like a kid needs food, or a new set of undies.

[kaycee]

When I pray for someone, I pray from my spirit to his/hers sending positive energy. If you believe you have a soul and it's made up of energy this makes sense.

[LycanSpectre]

You see when you go to God for advice, needs, wants, ect., you are putting your trust in Him, that He, knowing everything anyway, will do what is best for you.

And what happens when your best interests (as "God" sees it) conflits with another's best interests? Does this "God" show favoritism, or are you both just S.O.L.? And what about greedy prayers? Does "God" just ignore the prayers he/she/it/they don't like?

God is there for you, not the other way around.

Are you sure? How can you be so certain?

[Aquilan]

I don't think anyone or anything would go through all this trouble just for self satisfaction. If it were, don't you think everyone would be christian?

[LycanSpectre]

I don't think anyone or anything would go through all this trouble just for self satisfaction. If it were, don't you think everyone would be christian?

I think you may be assuming that "God" does not have a mean streak. I think he/she/it/they does. Wars can be fun to watch for a sadist. And differing religions are great ways to start wars. I dont necessarily think this is the case (God as a sadist), but it is certainly something to think about.



And who's to say that everyone wouldn't be Pagan? I would not presume to assume that my faith is the right one.

[Aquilan]

And who's to say that everyone wouldn't be Pagan? I would not presume to assume that my faith is the right one.

I would. If you don't presume yourself to be right, you don't have faith. I do. So I think I'm right. As for God being a sadist, why do you think we have that little voice, or guilt? I'd go around killing everybody if it didn't make me feel bad. And if God did that just to watch us feel bad, don't you think you'd have a weak consious, but suicide everytime for the guilt? It does happen, but really, we put up a whole lot of stuff to prevent suicide and murder, further supporting my point.

[LycanSpectre]

I would. If you don't presume yourself to be right, you don't have faith. I do. So I think I'm right.

Well, thats great for you, but I would be a little more open minded to what you have to say if you kept an open mind, and took into account that I disagree.


As for God being a sadist, why do you think we have that little voice, or guilt?

So that we feel pain and regret. Also fun for a Sadist to see.

And if God did that just to watch us feel bad, don't you think you'd have a weak consious, but suicide everytime for the guilt? It does happen, but really, we put up a whole lot of stuff to prevent suicide and murder, further supporting my point.

Ok. I have no Idea what you are trying to say. If you clarify your thoughts, I will attempt to read them again.

As for preventing suicide and murder and stuff, it creates drama. Think of life as a TV show without the victorian ending.

[Aquilan]

Well, thats great for you, but I would be a little more open minded to what you have to say if you kept an open mind, and took into account that I disagree.


I'm not closed minded, I'm just decicive. I'm christian. You're not. It doesn't matter anyway, because I believe that you and I might be sitting up in Heaven one day drinkin' soda and skating, or whatever. If you're Pagan, thats cool, if you are Bhuddist, word, but I'm Christian.

So that we feel pain and regret. Also fun for a Sadist to see.

Why do you think we feel pain and regret? Weakness of heart would cause some people to die out, ignorance would let them shrug it off, but because we have both a concious and guilt, most of us wouldn't do it in the first place.


Ok. I have no Idea what you are trying to say. If you clarify your thoughts, I will attempt to read them again.

I'm saying that we try to stop it. If God were a sadist, we wouldn't do a thing except die ourselves after ripping our hair out and crying for five or six days. If you want drama, there is a whole lot more you could do. I had a close family member (cousin) that died recently. Know what I did? I prayed for him. And now, I'm fine. I know he found rest. If God were a sadist, I'd find a rusty knife and pull a Juliet on the whole world.

As for preventing suicide and murder and stuff, it creates drama. Think of life as a TV show without the victorian ending.

I don't think the world is in that bad a shape. Life is really boring, compared to TV. There really aren't that many murders, but the media likes to be very dramatic, and so they tell us every single one that there ever was.

Really, I'd like to bring free will into this, but that is another topic.

[LV426]

Praying for the dead... how is that comforting? I mean they are dead. It is not the dead that need the prayers it is the living. And as for god being a sadist, just because you found comfort in saying a prayer for a dead man doesn't mean that there isn't a sadistic god. His sadism could be allowing you to believe in a benevolent god until your moment of death when you realized all that you suffered was for nothing because there is only an eternal hell. HAHA! JOKE'S ON YOU!

See, now that is sadistic.

[DarkWolf]

Just like any Father, He wants us to ask Him questions. He wants us to come to Him for advice. In other words, God wants us to talk to Him. You see when you go to God for advice, needs, wants, ect., you are putting your trust in Him, that He, knowing everything anyway, will do what is best for youSee I find that if I had a son, I'd be prouder that they work on their own problems first, that they try to build their own character than to ask for help everytime something doesn't go their own way.
That doesn't mean everything I want I get, but it does mean that every need I have, He has taken care of.I find it funny that this happens without praying anyway. I do not accept God or deities, nor does anybody in my family: yet we have what we need, a few luxuries, and all around a good life. Is this God? I doubt it, I personally leave it as good financial preparations. That doesn't mean good finances, just preparations so there's always enough money for the bills at the end of the day: you just cut back on luxuries for a bit.
We pray, because that is all we are. Sure, there are some people who will pray: "OH GOD!! Dear Lord, please, please, PLEASE let me win the lottery!" But there are some, who pray for a better thing, like inner strength, or a person's soul, or whatever.I find it funny, again, that these things can be achieved without any prayers.
I prayed for him. And now, I'm fine. I know he found rest.This is why I believe religion is only a safety-net more than anything else. Some people can't stand that there might not be an after-life and the brutal end of conciousness is too terrifying a concept: so they convince themselves there's an afterlife to lessen the fear or worry.
If God were a sadist, I'd find a rusty knife and pull a Juliet on the whole world.Not really, if God were a sadist, your life would be worse off, and he'd keep you alive so he has more suffering to watch.

My doubts lie in the fact that most religions just so happen to have all the answers for everything ("it is just part of God's plan" "God made that happen" etc)... Yeah.. because things are just so convenient? I personally hope that God isn't real, so life isn't ultimately that simple ("God made everything" - far too simple for my liking) and thus is interesting. God being a reason for everything seems.. anti-climactic at best.

[Hellcat]

That doesn't mean good finances, just preparations so there's always enough money for the bills at the end of the day: you just cut back on luxuries for a bit.

Nah I disagree with you. It's not necessarily finacial preparation that keeps you afloat when the bills come in, it having a good hand with bills, and being an ace at juggling them when an unsuspected one hits you in the face such as havng to fork out £30 to have my computer repaired.

God is like dumbo's magic feather. If anyone remembers watching the disney film they might remember that the crow gave dumbo a magic feather and told him it would make him fly. Dumbo put all his confidence in the crows magic feather and lo and behold he flew. One time he dropped the magic feather and he realised he was still flying. It wasn't the feather that made him fly it was his confidence that did it. God is also a magic feather, it gives people confidence in themselves and their lives. At the end of the day some people prefer to put our faith in a third party object (God, four leaf clover etc) to achieve their own self confidence. Of course these people will tell you that I'm talking bollocks, but at the end of the day thats because of faith. For someone who strongly believes in god, anything you say to them will not turn them away from their magic feather (god) because if they loose faith in the magic feather, they feel that they will fall to the floor. I have faith in myself, thus I don't need a third party object by which to reflect my confidence (except a mirror image of myself to which I will tell "I am fucking great" cos I get myself confidence from me, I have to because I refuse to rely on any god believing in me, and I refuse to give credit to any god for my achievements) It doesn't matter whether you believe in yourself or whether you believe in a third party object, both is a faith in yourself be it directly, or merely as a reflection from your faith in something else.

[DarkWolf]

Your "magic feather" analogy is what I was trying to say about the "safety-net" thing.

[Aquilan]

Sooo... In other words, God is just there to make us feel better, when we should be stopping the wounds ourselves? It's nice and all that you guys are lonors, but I can't really say that I like the idea that there isn't a saftey net, or a magic feather. And yet, I feel strangly compelled to get stuff done on my own. God is there for mental support, and religion is the exact same way. He won't grant you three wishes, he sure as hell won't give you a better life if you ask it. He IS a saftey net. He IS a magic feather, and you know what? I appreciate it.

[LV426]

The thing about magic feathers is that eventually they slip away and you end up having to learn how to fly all on your own.

[Wolffy13]

I pray often, and I don't think life would be as smooth (not saying I don't have problems, because I do) for me if I didn't. Just yesterday, my car broke down in the middle of town and I had no where to go to use a phone. No nearby businesses, relatives, friends, etc. Asking, "please God, help me out here!" a sweet, elderly lady showed up within a few minutes and gave me a ride to a friend's.

I don't believe in coincidences anymore, mind you. Looking back on the so-called "coincidences" in my life, it's like someone wrote a script, it was supposed to be that way.

Praying for the dead... how is that comforting? I mean they are dead. It is not the dead that need the prayers it is the living.

I've done baptisms for the dead. It's actually a very spiritual experience. It gives you the same feeling as an answered prayer. I couldn't describe that feeling, it's unique. It's like asking what kalamari tastes like. Kalamari tastes like kalamari.

See I find that if I had a son, I'd be prouder that they work on their own problems first, that they try to build their own character than to ask for help everytime something doesn't go their own way.

I wouldn't want my children to run to me everytime they had a hang nail or they hit their head on something, but there some things I wouldn't them to be alone on.

[Aquilan]

I find it funny, again, that these things can be achieved without any prayers.

You are right, they can be obtained. God doesn't need to baby sit you, just be there for you. That is why I don't pray for material goods.

[kaycee]

I think it's better to have faith in yourself rather than depending on praying to God for what you want/need.

If you want things to happen, work at it and make it happen. Praying is comforting, but what you ask for wont come to you unless you, yourself work hard to get it. Praying wont make it happen, but you will if you really want it. If their really is a God, don't you think he'd rather you get what you want on your own? Pray for strength/courage/and energy if you feel a need to ask your God for help.

As far as praying for someone who is sick, I pray from my spirit to theirs (like I said previously) sending positive energy to them.

[phantomroller]

See I find that if I had a son, I'd be prouder that they work on their own problems first, that they try to build their own character than to ask for help everytime something doesn't go their own way.

well God doesn't just grant your every wish and every whim. You do have to do things for yourself as well. You can't just go to God and say 'give me money'. you have to get a job first! You have to do for yourself and God is there and He helps you along when you need the help.

God is there to help us when we need Him. if I'm going through something that I cannot possibly bear, he's there like a friend would be there to listen, to talk, to comfort you. He isn't some magic genie who grants your every wish. God doesn't answer every prayer and it's not because he's some sick, twisted, sadist. He's our Father as well as friend. No good father will give his child everything they ask for. the child will never learn, nor grow that way. same with God. He wants us to grow and learn...just like a good father will for his child. Sure people will complain to him all the time they want something, but he gives them things they need.

[Aquilan]

As far as praying for someone who is sick, I pray from my spirit to theirs (like I said previously) sending positive energy to them.
Word. *nods*