Christianity by the sword.

[SinacSupul]

At first Christianity was not very wide spread it was very small and many a time Christians would be killed by other religious groups but then Christianity learnt that they had to fight too. After Christianity had spread across some of Europe and was quite powerful they started bringing out armies they called Missions. The Missions would be sent out into places that did not believe in Christianity they would go from place to place spreading the word of "God".

History tells us that these groups had usually only 1 or 2 priests but many of the kingsmen. The kingsmen were the ones who made you believe and after they were done talking to you well of course you agreed. Believe or Die!!! Now many people wonder how Christianity became so large in the world, is the answer not obvious.

Here in the US Native American groups can tell you the stories better then we can. Spanish missions came over Christianizing the East by the tip of the sword and not much further after by the tip of the rifle. Yet it was not until the US was finally founded that Christianity was seriously spread by the sword when the Civil War outbroke and whole Native American tribes were "Christianized".

This isnt some hit on Christianity but seriously wouldnt you believe if death were facing you?

[J.L.R.]

However this is a serious problem with this arguement. Those who were "Spreading" the word of God, themselves were not Christians. They were Catholics. The Bible gives very explicit instructions on how to become a Christian, and after careful study, I find that it never commands Christians to force people into becoming Christians. In truth you can't. Since true Christianity is by a choice in one's heart, a personal choice between them and God, you have to understand that if somebody was forced to become a Christian, they in truth still wouldn't be a Christian.

The Bible goes on to say, that you can't obtain Salvation through works. As Paul so eloquently stated, "Not by works, lest ye boast."
Through out history many priests and religious leaders, did unspeakable things in the name of God, but that doesn't mean that it was actually God's command.

Well lets look at some more recent events. Is Islam evil, because some extremists use it to build their plans of world domination. If you look closely Osama bin Laden's plans have more to do with his own personal desires, and less with what Allah would want. If that is what Allah wants, wouldn't you think all the Muslims would be fanatics?

History has tought us, that men with power will use any popular belief to obtain more power. The Roman Catholics aren't the only ones who abused Scripture to manipulate people. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Jessie Jackson, Ku Klux Klan, and the Black Panthers, just to name a few. However once you read the Bible all the way through, you find that all of these people are more into what THEY desire (power) than what the Bible states, and the people that fall to their schemes are those who do not know the Bible. That is why the Roman Catholic church of late, was so persistant to quelch any translation of the early Bible. THe poor people couldn't read latin, if they could read at all, and thus the priests had power over them. However, people like, Martin Luther, who once stepped out of his religious boundries, and read the Bible himself, he saw that his many over priests, were scripturely wrong. In fact they were wrong in 99 ways, thus his 99 Precepts, of which he nailed unto the door of the church.
Many stories of witches and werewolves, who were tortured and burned, were in fact protestants who either preached the true Gospel or were translaters of the Bible. Seeing these people a menace to their cause, the Church had to crush them, but to just kill them, would make the martyrs. So instead they used recent fears, and bad events, to transforms these, otherwise decent people, into monsters, of which discredited them, and turned people away from them. Then the bloody church of yore, could murder them, and make it seem good....

As for the reason of Christianity spreading....

Christianity really didn't get a foothold in this world, until the Christian ruler, Constenople, made it the offical language of (I want to say Rome...but I don't know). Once Christianity was able to be tought freely, since before most Christians had to hide their faith, it spread like wildfire.
The only problem with Constenople's choice, is he created a gov't run church, of which would be the foundation of what would become the Roman Catholic Church.

Christians do not need swords to spread Christianity. Its very form and message of the ultimate love and forgiveness is very compelling in itself. In Africa, Christianity is spreading faster there than anywhere else, with the help of charitable missions, and Afrikaan missionaries, who witnessed the Good News in their lives, and thus want to tell all of their friends.

Christianity is the religion of the free, not of the bound...

[LV426]

However this is a serious problem with this arguement. Those who were "Spreading" the word of God, themselves were not Christians. They were Catholics. The Bible gives very explicit instructions on how to become a Christian, and after careful study, I find that it never commands Christians to force people into becoming Christians. In truth you can't. Since true Christianity is by a choice in one's heart, a personal choice between them and God, you have to understand that if somebody was forced to become a Christian, they in truth still wouldn't be a Christian.

The Bible goes on to say, that you can't obtain Salvation through works. As Paul so eloquently stated, "Not by works, lest ye boast."
Through out history many priests and religious leaders, did unspeakable things in the name of God, but that doesn't mean that it was actually God's command.

Well lets look at some more recent events. Is Islam evil, because some extremists use it to build their plans of world domination. If you look closely Osama bin Laden's plans have more to do with his own personal desires, and less with what Allah would want. If that is what Allah wants, wouldn't you think all the Muslims would be fanatics?

History has tought us, that men with power will use any popular belief to obtain more power. The Roman Catholics aren't the only ones who abused Scripture to manipulate people. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Jessie Jackson, Ku Klux Klan, and the Black Panthers, just to name a few. However once you read the Bible all the way through, you find that all of these people are more into what THEY desire (power) than what the Bible states, and the people that fall to their schemes are those who do not know the Bible. That is why the Roman Catholic church of late, was so persistant to quelch any translation of the early Bible. THe poor people couldn't read latin, if they could read at all, and thus the priests had power over them. However, people like, Martin Luther, who once stepped out of his religious boundries, and read the Bible himself, he saw that his many over priests, were scripturely wrong. In fact they were wrong in 99 ways, thus his 99 Precepts, of which he nailed unto the door of the church.
Many stories of witches and werewolves, who were tortured and burned, were in fact protestants who either preached the true Gospel or were translaters of the Bible. Seeing these people a menace to their cause, the Church had to crush them, but to just kill them, would make the martyrs. So instead they used recent fears, and bad events, to transforms these, otherwise decent people, into monsters, of which discredited them, and turned people away from them. Then the bloody church of yore, could murder them, and make it seem good....

As for the reason of Christianity spreading....

Christianity really didn't get a foothold in this world, until the Christian ruler, Constenople, made it the offical language of (I want to say Rome...but I don't know). Once Christianity was able to be tought freely, since before most Christians had to hide their faith, it spread like wildfire.
The only problem with Constenople's choice, is he created a gov't run church, of which would be the foundation of what would become the Roman Catholic Church.

Christians do not need swords to spread Christianity. Its very form and message of the ultimate love and forgiveness is very compelling in itself. In Africa, Christianity is spreading faster there than anywhere else, with the help of charitable missions, and Afrikaan missionaries, who witnessed the Good News in their lives, and thus want to tell all of their friends.

Christianity is the religion of the free, not of the bound...

Now they use pamphlets with the papercuts of doom as a threat or sit and harrass you until you would do anything to get them to shut up.

[SinacSupul]

I live in a down south town I mean down south like we just got a super walmart and it was like an amusement park. Down here the main religions are Baptist and Pentecostal right next door there is a Jesus Name church. Now if I were to go around and tell people in this town that I believe in Shamanism I would literally be burnt at the stake or hung or dunked in a river. Most of the religious people in my school think Im a devil worshipper! The facts of today still tell us that Christianity was spread over many places by the sword. No one can deny that. And it is also a fact that Christianity did spread when Constenople allowed Christianity to be taught but you have to remember it was still spread by force. The church itself made many people believe or die.

I do agree though that to be a Christian you must truly believe in Christ and God. I was just stating the fact that when your in a situation like the world was in many years ago you are going to teach your people to believe so that you can preserve life.

I do also believe that in many places like Korea and Vietnam that chirstianity was spread by belief, but during Renaissance Medevil and Colonial times that Christianity was spread by force. Can you or can you not agree.

Oh and the pamphlets geeze they send them in my county in bulk through the mail. I swear we get at least 4 a week asking us to walk with Jehovas Witnesses.

[J.L.R.]

But once again, I tell you that, that wasn't true Christianity. That was Catholithism. There is a huge difference. True Christianity, whether you thinks so or not, can not be forced onto somebody. To become a Christian, one has to personally accept Jesus Christ as their saviour. If I forced you, at sword point, you might say the words, but you still wouldn't believe them. I'm sorry but saying... "Jesus loves you...DIE!!!!" Just don't go together, and it is unscriptural.

The Crusades was a blood bath, and Christ himself prophecied of the terrible acts people were going to commit in His name. He already knew that man would pervert the goodness that He had brought. He gave a warning to the true believers, to watch out for such doctrins and preachers.

Also, Christianity is still spreading today, and there are not swords to do so. Africa, Asia, South America, and many many more places, the Gospel is being preached. My Grandfather just got back from a mission trip to India, where in Mumbai, 139 people made a decision of Christ. Jesus' words of love are powerful, and the only ones who fear them are the ones who don't want to hear them.

Christians are still HUMAN. There are many stupid Christians out there. I have run into several. Many of whom have never even read the Bible all the way through! It scares me to think these people are fully trusting in what other people are teaching, and they don't know what is tought either. Don't expect a Christian to be Mr. Perfect. No one can be that way.
Look my disagree with you and your beliefs, but I still respect them. The only time I would give you the Life of Christ, as it would seem, is if you asked me first.
The only stakes that get burned around here, are the ones you eat... har har Steaks stakes....har har....

[SinacSupul]

I love steak......

I understand what you are saying but what I mean is that after many years young children would be taught to believe in God instead of the Spirit of the Mountain etc. so that they would not be killed by the evil white soldiers.

I believe you keep the bible close to you and would like to ask what you think about the product of sexism in genesis. Genesis 3:16 "and thy desire shall be to thy husband and he shall rule over thee".

I myself being the time I claimed myself as Christian thought that the bible was quite a book written by men to have more power over their kingdoms.

[J.L.R.]

Sinac, it isn't sexism, if you take the Bible's whole viewpoint of the subject. What does a good ruler do for his people, he provides, he protects, and he loves them. In God's viewpoint, that is the role of man, to Protect his mate, to provide for her, and to love her. God isn't trying to be demeaning to women, and if would be a shame to not consider that some of the greatest people in the Bible were woman, like Abigale, Ester, Ruth, Sisera, and so on. Women have different strengths than men do. While men have physical strength, women have endurance. In a home they complete each other. God may have given man the place of authority, but he also requires a lot more of man than He does with a woman. In other words, if a house goes astray, God blames man over woman. Even in the Adam and Eve story, God held Adam responsible, and while he punished Eve as well, he gave Adam a much harder task.

God expects man to take care of his wife, to love her, and protect her. If the man truly loves his woman, he will. God expects the woman to inturn listen to her husband and respect him, and if the man does his task, the woman will follow... of course providing the man is being the right kind of husband and not some two-timing bum! :)

[LV426]

There is no provision in the Bible for "if your husband is a two timing bum." In fact the marraige vows are to love, honor, and OBEY that only the women speak. And there are many instances of women being repressed and controlled by men in the Bible. That's where men got all that bullshit that women are less than men.

Anyway, it's Catholicism not Catholithism. And I am encompassing Catholics in with Christians because they are the same in that they believe in Christ. The christ believers were very aggressive towards enforcing their religion, just look at the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades.

[WhiteCrowUK]

There are two forms for any religion - and you're just showing one side.

There is "faith as an ideal" - this is all the ideas which the religion from its source material is supposed to support.

Then there is the "faith for the fanatical". This is how a few people choose to apply their religion. It may well be far removed for the ideal of the religion. This is how come Christianity is always remembered for the Spainish Inquisition, and Islam is blamed as the religion of the suicide bomber.

The fundamental point to Christianity is
* Jesus was God made man
* he told us to take care of each other, and this was the best way to show how we loved God
* he suffered for this message, and was put to death
* he came back to life to show us death is not something to be feared

Now he sure as hell didnt suffer on a cross so that hundreds of years later a few rich lords and priests could use his message to justify siezing peoples lands, making them suffer, and putting to death anyone they pleased - these actions are against the core message of the man (Jesus Christ) who Christians choose to name themselves after.

And you know what really annoys me right now - I've written this passioned responce and I'm not even a Christian!!! Maybe its time I just accepted the inevitable on that one ... :D


but seriously wouldnt you believe if death were facing you?

This is a very good question.

I was a kid in the 1980s. The world was really on the brink of a terrible war I'm glad we avoided.

Everyone was frightened in that age that the Soviet Union was going to expand and put us all under the yolk of Communism. The plan to stop this was to fire a lot of nuclear weapons at Russia if a war did break out. Of course they would retaliate - leaving billions dead, and most of the world uninhabitable.

Really scarey. Personally though I'd have rather lived under Communism and fought the system from within (heck I am a rebel in normal society anyway) - even if I had ended up executed for rebellion. The idea of destroying the world and all human life over a squabble over political ideals.

What a lot of people over here objected to was that the choice over launching some missiles from this country (against which Russia would have retaliated) did not lie in our hands. It did not even lie in our elected leaders hands - but that of a leader of another country ...

[Madness]

Just here to throw me own 2 cents in... I personally think that its rather funny that so many people think that their idea of religion is the right one, when (unless i'm mistaken, which is quite likley) one of the points of the religion is that man is imperfect...
I could go on about this for a good half hour or so, but someone's just gonna tell me i'm wrong and who am i to say that he's wrong?
Anyway, I'll leave with this question... If you're christian, where your parents christian? and do you have a good reason that doesn't originate from your parents beleifs for beleiving in christianity? if you say yes, then your the first person to do so... I'd also like to hear your reasons for beleiving it... i'm more or less athiest, but i like to keep an open mind...

Sorry, one last thing...
If you can prove that god exists, then guess what! he doesn't! Why?
Because Proof denies faith, and without faith, God is nothing...

Don't remember where i heard this... sounds like the kind of B.S. someone would make up which he could use to make his idea inchallengable (is that a word? oh well, it is now)... but that's just me....

[J.L.R.]

Errr WRONG LycanthropicHowl... Catholics believe works=Salvation. They revern Mary as an almost diety. You can go anywhere in Mexico and see shrines so they can pray to the Virgin Mary. While Christ is still important, He isn't the high priest.

In Christianity we believe that Salvation is obtained through Grace, as tought by the Bible. Christ is the high priest, and nobody is higher.

When people feel they have to EARN their forgiveness, salvation, pentence, they will do almost anything to obtain that special place by God, or Nervana, or whatever.

In Christianity, it isn't about what you can do for God, but what God has done for you. That is the message of the Gospels... Jesus died for the sake of mankind, bridging the gap between God and man...but for only those who willingly take it.

As for myself becoming a Christian... Well I was an atheist as well as an evolutionist. I hated the world, mostly because my dad was a bastard, but somehow or other, I met a wonderful man, who told me about someone greater than any problem I could think of, who'd love me regardless of what I had done. That someone was Jesus Christ. To make a long story short, I got saved, born again, have you, (To ask Jesus Christ into your heart and forgive you of your sins) and BADDA BING BADDA BOOM, it was like a great weight was lifted off of my shoulders. I felt wonderful, and free. It is really hard to describe, but all I can say is I was really really happy. My life changed. Instead of trashing God, I now praise Him. If He can do wonders in my life, He can help anybody!

[LV426]

OK you need to chill out on that preachy "I was saved" shit. No one is saved by an invisible friend. And Catholicism was born of Christianity. All Catholics are christians, but not all christians are catholic. Catholics are christians because they believe that Christ, Jesus, the big tamale prophet, is the son of god. That same god that you believe in, and that same christ that you believe in. The Catholics have a lot of extra baggage in saints and others but they are still christians. Don't deny it, it's true, they are christians.

And as christians, both catholic and protestant and other sects of christianity, they have forced their religion on other peoples. And don't tell me they haven't because there are little born agains like you in other countries shoving christ and god down poor little natives throats and upsetting their whole belief structure. They are probably just happy little natives, eating their enemies and little missionaries come over and annoy the piss out of them. You know how I know this, because you yourself have said that your grandfather and some of your born again fundie friends have gone over to spread the word of god. You know what you need to do, leave people the fuck alone.

It's bad enough that christians, fundies, born agains, and other christian fucktards seem to think that anyone that doesn't believe in their god is going to hell and that they have to harrass you constantly and insult you and your family, and choose inopportune times to pin you down and preach at you, but then you want to piss on other people's gods. Leave em alone!

For the love of little green dragons! Let people be what they want and quit pissing in their fruit loops.

[blueeyes]

JLR, I wonder if you've read the part of the bible that explains hell is simply a place without god. Forget the crap about fire and sulfer and gnashing of teeth; that's all just add-ins through time to make paganism seem worse. Hell was designed for an angel who didn't want God, and since God was perfectly kind and equitable, that's what that thing got.
So if you really want to 'save' people, figure out if they'd be happier unsaved.

[SinacSupul]

Just check it out JLR the bible in some parts even condones slavery. You cant deny that the bible is sexist because sexism the favor or unfavorable actions or attitudes to a certain gender.

Also God killed the 1st born son of every family in egypt who didnt put lambs blood over his door signifying Faith in God. Then Moses parts the red sea well aint it obvious how the sea got red??? God kills all these kids their bloods gotta be somewhere. Whats with that? He even said believe in me or I kill your kids.

[LycanSpectre]

JLR, I wonder if you've read the part of the bible that explains hell is simply a place without god. Forget the crap about fire and sulfer and gnashing of teeth; that's all just add-ins through time to make paganism seem worse. Hell was designed for an angel who didn't want God, and since God was perfectly kind and equitable, that's what that thing got.
So if you really want to 'save' people, figure out if they'd be happier unsaved.

Yep. Kinda makes you wonder; if all that is true, then is this hell?

[WhiteCrowUK]

It's bad enough that christians, fundies, born agains, and other christian fucktards seem to think that anyone that doesn't believe in their god is going to hell ...

But in the same way, you seem to be a dedicated athiest - and that is a religion you have chosen, and which you preach? Its your choice of beliefs - even if its just to not believe in anything!

Doesnt it amount to the same kind of "my view is right, everyone else is wrong" kind of intolerance???

[LV426]

But in the same way, you seem to be a dedicated athiest - and that is a religion you have chosen, and which you preach? Its your choice of beliefs - even if its just to not believe in anything!

Doesnt it amount to the same kind of "my view is right, everyone else is wrong" kind of intolerance???
I'm not an athiest, I am god. But the difference in my belief is that I don't condemn people to hell or force my beliefs on them. I could care less if people believe me or not, it's the ones that think they have to change me to save my soul that piss me off.

[J.L.R.]

And I haven't either. Just because I say that Christianity improved my life, am I being preachy? If it did, do I lie? Just because you tell somebody how something changed their lives, that ISN'T shoving it down their throat, and I think most people would agree with me. I find that the only ones who scream force, are those who don't nor ever would even consider Christianity...

Okay, I am not going to get into a rant here...so I won't.

Getting back to the original post.

Christianity, as defined by the Bible, not a preacher or priest, can not be forced by sword or other onto another person. Once again, Christianity is a personal relationship with God, that has to come with a personal agreement with God. Saying a few words, does not make you a Christian, and thus, forcing somebody to say them, will not make that person a Christian, and thus makes the Faith of uneffect.
Catholicism though was spread by force. Catholicism denies the power of Christ and places the work load on man. Because people have to earn their way to heaven, they will do almost anything to get there, including doing what they think is right for God. Just like the radical Islamists today (Osama bin Laden) inevidably they meld their own personal desires with that of the religion, until and most tragically the common person can not tell what is truth and what is lie. Just like the illiterate peasants of yore, who couldn't read the Bible, and had to let the priests, decern the Scriptures for them, the a good number, I believe 70%, of the muslim people are illiterate, and thus have to rely on religious leaders to decifer the Quran for them, leaving them open for brain washed ideals.

Was the Inquisition right? NO... Were the crusades right? No... In my book these people were murderous monsters who hid behind religion to perform there wicked deeds.

The Red Sea is the name of a sea. That has nothing to do with blood. In Exodus God did the things He did for two-fold reasons. A. To show His glory to His people. B. To show His glory to Pharoah. God promised Israel that he would bless those that bless them and curse those that curse them. He was fullfilling that promise.

However, this in truth has nothing to do with the spread of Christianity, but more or less the seperation of Israel as a people.

[WhiteCrowUK]

I dont know if either of you have ever read "The Road Less Travelled"?

There is a very good section on personal religion there - and how for some people a belief in God is a positive thing in their life, and for others its a very bad thing, even a destructive thing.

I believe that whatever path you follow, you have to question things, not accept everything.

[SinacSupul]

JLR at one time I was a Catholic and we worship Jesus just like everyone else. The only difference is we also pray to his mother the blessed virgin mary. We also ask the spirits of great people, people who have shown their light even in death. We are the same as any Christian in that we must get to heaven through Christ. We do though believe that once saved and ready to go to heaven you must show kind actions towards others and try to spread Christianity into the hearts of people.

Now that was my viewpoint about 4 months ago. Now my viewpoint is that the bible is wrong but thats not what this is about.

You keep repeating yourself saying Christianity cant be taken in by force but can it not be taught? Can it not be learnt or taken on from pretend to real? Yes its something you must accept in your heart but if your parents took you to church when you were little you learn that church is right when it may not be. IN chrsitianity you learn it as you grow up and you are told to believe in nothing else. Doesnt that make you believe once your mind has been washed of all openess?

[DarkWolf]

Yep. Kinda makes you wonder; if all that is true, then is this hell?
If this is Hell why are there door-to-door bible sellers and people in the streets shouting out passages of the bible? This is why I have always said the Christian variation of Hell is one I'd enjoy.

I don't dislike religious people. I dislike their religions. I judge the person only on how they act and talk around me, their choices remain theirs. If a christian came up to me and chatted normally, said they were a christian and that it helped them deal with life better: I'd congratulate them. If a christian came up to me and said that Christianity is wonderful, and starts quoting passages of the bible and sharing the stories etc... I'd tell them to leave me alone. The difference isn't their religion: it is simply that the latter had no respect for my choices, the first one did.

[Darth Cluich]

If this is Hell why are there door-to-door bible sellers and people in the streets shouting out passages of the bible?

Perhaps that's part of what makes this Hell. ;)

[WhiteCrowUK]

If this is Hell why are there door-to-door bible sellers and people in the streets shouting out passages of the bible?

I got a wierd email today asking me to "Name a star for Jesus"!?!

[ArcaneWolf]

You keep repeating yourself saying Christianity cant be taken in by force but can it not be taught? Can it not be learnt or taken on from pretend to real? Yes its something you must accept in your heart but if your parents took you to church when you were little you learn that church is right when it may not be. IN chrsitianity you learn it as you grow up and you are told to believe in nothing else. Doesnt that make you believe once your mind has been washed of all openess?

That's exactly it, religion is often brainwashed into children by their parents. This is how poor islamic children are taught it is "GOOD!" to kill a person who is a nonbeliever of Allah.

Can't wait for the day that the whole jewish/christian/islamic mess either fades away or burns out in a huge flame.

a modern day wise man once said this:

Losing your integrity while simultaneously gaining faith as a religious follower is the mentality we all dislike. How come people lose integrity,identity and everything that makes them individuals and replace it withy collectivistic conformity with agreed-upon codes?

[J.L.R.]

I know everybody is going to gasp...so lets just have a good gasp for about two minutes....


Okay, done...

You know, after careful thought, LycanthropicHowl may have a point...per say...

Need to gasp some more...

Let me explain...

What made me think of this was, I was talking to God about different questions, and how I should answer them, and of course, one of the subjects in my thought process was Christianity being forced onto people, and God brought to my attention a critical mistake many Christians make when it comes to witnessing, or in other words, telling others about the Gospels of Christ.

A few months back I had a huge discussion with our church youth about witnessing, because some of the youth we have, in many ways were making people upset by some of the rude things they were saying or doing. A particular person bragged about how she would only listen to "Christian" music, and all other music was evil. She also had more Christian propoganda than Mardel's Christian Book Store in her car. A few other kids looked like a walking lepel factory. My Grandmother, who is also the Youth Leader, asked me to show them why this method of witnessing is wrong.

Of course the blantant problem with these methods is the I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG! I AM SO HOLIER THAN YOU GOODY GOODY attitude of arrogance they were displaying. I am a Christian and I was certainly revolted by some of their actions.
I explained that Jesus Christ never walked around like an advertisement display case, telling people He was the Messiah, He instead, helped people, He healed people, and He loved them, for WHO they were, and not for what they were. Jesus had compassion on those who loved him, and even more so on those who hated Him. His sermons reflected that love as well. Those who wanted to know more came, and those who didn't kept walking. Jesus didn't need to hand out tracks. He didn't get followers by telling them they were going to Hell either. He simply loved them.
I went on to tell them that Christianity is not a clothing or garmet. I said, you shouldn't have to wear 40 Jesus Rocks! pins on your shirt to prove you are a Christian. People should see that by your actions.

Coming from a multicultural background with having several friends from many different faiths and walks in life, I was taught to respect others beliefs. I have Hindu, Muslim, Catholic, even Buddist friends, spanning across the globe. My Grandparents taught me that you would never get somebody to listen to you if you insult them, because everyone one has a belief, and customs that come with that belief.

In short, I feel that if many more Christians practiced what they preached, less people would turn away, and possibly listen...

Oh well I am tired now...

[McKitty]

Can't wait for the day that the whole jewish/christian/islamic mess either fades away or burns out in a huge flame.

Woah there, there are very few Jews who will prech at you to convert to Judaism. And if they do, they aren't a real Jew. For the Jewish religion was based on Social Goodness hence the "Thou shalt not steal, kill another ...yadda yadda..." the typical Jew will not care if another believes in ...let's say Budda or Allah for the religion (even if you only take the traditions and leave the faith) teaches us to be tolerant.

Christians, on the other hand, have not learned this Jewish lesson that Jesus taught y'all. In fact, I get preached at every day by born-agains to accept Jesus into my heart. To me, he was a man and IF he was the embodiment of GOD on earth ...wouldn't he already be there considering I already know God? Why should I call him by another name? And that goes for all religions besides Christianity. They already have a God in their heart (even if they call him Allah, it's merely a name?), why should they stamp the name "Jesus" on there as well if it's already God?

Anywho, off the side-trail and to my point dealing with this topic: I find it a bit ironic that the beginnings of Christianity were a presecuted sect of Judaism and through being exiled from Rome(?) gained power and through bloodshed and presecution became the powerhouse religion that it is.

[COLONV]

Fiest of all, I'm a Christian believer, but christianity by the sword is insane and anti-christian.My Opinion is that christianity should not be forced to anyone.What do you think?

[J.L.R.]

I don't mean this wrong, but it seems people don't have a problem shoving their beliefs down my throat. I mean I felt sorry for this loner Vampire guy in my Color in Design Class because nobody would talk to him, so I did. We had a good conversation...albie t wierd, but a good one, and then he got on how stupid Christianity was...or for the most part Christians. He was fine as long as I let him rant about my beliefs, but as soon as I stood up for them, Oooh aaah I was a bastard preacher... ooooh aaaah?

I see this sort of thing all the time. It's all fine and dandy to misuse Jesus Christ's name, but shoot I say it in prayer, and I'm stepping on somebodies shoes. I'm sorry but are other people's beliefs so fragile that they can't take a little dose of Jesus? You know I don't care what Buddists say. I don't care what Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, you name it, I don't care, because nothing they can say can change the way I believe and feel, but it seems that you place a little Bible on the table, and these people scramble for their lives. In fact it is Christians who are getting murdered in other countries by these so called religious groups. A friend of ours in Sri Lanka gave us a report of churches being raided by Hindus and Christian preachers being shot. There is news of similar incodents in Katmandu Nepal, India, Pakistan, and China. People being killed just because they believe in Jesus Christ...

So what if you have people hallering Gospel Messages on the streets. It is a free country. Ignore them, if you don't like it. I have to ignore the nannerings of liberal mental cases that seem to flood the streets and protest the most annain things imaginable...aka PETA... I don't like them one bit, but if we start putting locks on who and what people can talk about, then we loose the very purpose of our freedom.

[blueeyes]

Because we've all had to deal with it. A thousand different people saying that we are certainly going to hell, for all of our lives (well, mature lives, in some cases). If Mormanism was the norm, we would hate it for the assumptions it places on us. If Hinduism was the status quo, we wouldn't stand the concept of null. If Satanism became standard, no one would like to hear about going to heaven. We have to hear what you think is right so many times, the story has long ago become old hat. The tendency for Christianity to be an easy way out isn't helping us (don't even have to act good to get into heaven).
So while you have complaints with other people thusting their religions at you, realize you've only had to deal with it in small doses, simple blasts of us pagans assuming that you're wrong, we see hours of debate by people who know we have no choice in the matter. If you can't see a difference, take a different angle and look at it again.
No one here wants to be told that all we have to do is believe to your diety to go to heaven, because, with who seems to come that route, I'd prefer hell. As long as you're the majority, you get to deal with the inane babblings of the lesser religions, each of whom have no problem describing themselves until you place on the white collar and tells us what we already heard in Church.
We've been the choir, but that just shows us what holes exist in the sermon.

[McKitty]

I'm guessing you don't like to be on the other side of the fence do you J.L.R? Like what blueeyes said what you get in small doses is what we get everyday. And I honestly don't run hiding when someone mentions the word Christ because I've learned a technique called tuning someone out.

Yes people moan about Christianity because the religion believes it has the right to tell another that they're going to hell or are living a horrible sin-filled life(and they might be the greatest human alive) just because they don't praise one man. We are allowed to complain and dislike that.

[SinacSupul]

I see this sort of thing all the time. It's all fine and dandy to misuse Jesus Christ's name, but shoot I say it in prayer, and I'm stepping on somebodies shoes. I'm sorry but are other people's beliefs so fragile that they can't take a little dose of Jesus? You know I don't care what Buddists say. I don't care what Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, you name it, I don't care, because nothing they can say can change the way I believe and feel, but it seems that you place a little Bible on the table, and these people scramble for their lives. In fact it is Christians who are getting murdered in other countries by these so called religious groups. A friend of ours in Sri Lanka gave us a report of churches being raided by Hindus and Christian preachers being shot. There is news of similar incodents in Katmandu Nepal, India, Pakistan, and China. People being killed just because they believe in Jesus Christ...

So what if you have people hallering Gospel Messages on the streets. It is a free country. Ignore them, if you don't like it. I have to ignore the nannerings of liberal mental cases that seem to flood the streets and protest the most annain things imaginable...aka PETA... I don't like them one bit, but if we start putting locks on who and what people can talk about, then we loose the very purpose of our freedom.

I understand totally what your saying BUT. You yourself at this very moment have admitted to not caring about other beliefs but the bible teaches you that you must care about them because if someone looks away from God their blood is on Christian hands. We all see everything from one side of the fence the believers in this religion and those who dont believe. Many of us though look through the cracks in the fence.

You see the hallering Gospel Messages on the street has its extent but thats not speech thats harassment or disturbing the peace. Just because you have the freedom of speech doesnt mean you have the freedom to preach to people who dont want to be preached to.

[LOBO REY]

Its a shame. Christians bad repratation given to us by the new Roman Empire AKA the Catholic Church. They seperated the Jusitsu sect of Judism and turned it in to a way to profit. Scare people with an over agsagerated Hell. Then the Protastents just as bad.
I consider my self a Christian although my theological view are diffrent than most self proclamied christians. In fact Cesar John Paul II would problem have me stoned. The truth is most christains are wrong. Judism is a way of life, a cultur and a religion. Jesus the Christ new this. Most gentiles can't be asked to live by the same harsh codes that the Israelites must. So he preached to all who would listen that they could follow God thier own way as long as it did not offend him such as human sacrifice, cannablism and so forth. He was the bridge to send the message of God that had been rewritten and misused by the parasees, new life. Just as now the priests at the vatacint right a code that contradicts the bible. And christian Ideology preachers teach of whiute supriority. We have lost the truth of the message. There is a God, we have the right to follow him or to deny him. So the catholics and the Greeks reconstruct it turn it in to a Business . No wonder false Prophets and fake saviors are all coming out of the wood work. Joe smith, Ron Hubburt, Father Devine, Charlie, etc. It was also the Catholics that lowerd Jesus' most faithful follower and wife Mary Magdalen to the rank of a whore. According to the gossiple of Simon.

[LV426]

Its a shame. Christians bad repratation given to us by the new Roman Empire AKA the Catholic Church. They seperated the Jusitsu sect of Judism and turned it in to a way to profit. Scare people with an over agsagerated Hell. Then the Protastents just as bad.
I consider my self a Christian although my theological view are diffrent than most self proclamied christians. In fact Cesar John Paul II would problem have me stoned. The truth is most christains are wrong. Judism is a way of life, a cultur and a religion. Jesus the Christ new this. Most gentiles can't be asked to live by the same harsh codes that the Israelites must. So he preached to all who would listen that they could follow God thier own way as long as it did not offend him such as human sacrifice, cannablism and so forth. He was the bridge to send the message of God that had been rewritten and misused by the parasees, new life. Just as now the priests at the vatacint right a code that contradicts the bible. And christian Ideology preachers teach of whiute supriority. We have lost the truth of the message. There is a God, we have the right to follow him or to deny him. So the catholics and the Greeks reconstruct it turn it in to a Business . No wonder false Prophets and fake saviors are all coming out of the wood work. Joe smith, Ron Hubburt, Father Devine, Charlie, etc. It was also the Catholics that lowerd Jesus' most faithful follower and wife Mary Magdalen to the rank of a whore. According to the gossiple of Simon.

Catholics didn't do it alone. You might want to check your facts.

ONe more thing... LEARN TO SPELL OR USE A SPELLCHECKER!!!

[Lycan_Ghost04]

Sinac, it isn't sexism, if you take the Bible's whole viewpoint of the subject. What does a good ruler do for his people, he provides, he protects, and he loves them. In God's viewpoint, that is the role of man, to Protect his mate, to provide for her, and to love her. God isn't trying to be demeaning to women, and if would be a shame to not consider that some of the greatest people in the Bible were woman, like Abigale, Ester, Ruth, Sisera, and so on. Women have different strengths than men do. While men have physical strength, women have endurance. In a home they complete each other. God may have given man the place of authority, but he also requires a lot more of man than He does with a woman. In other words, if a house goes astray, God blames man over woman. Even in the Adam and Eve story, God held Adam responsible, and while he punished Eve as well, he gave Adam a much harder task.

God expects man to take care of his wife, to love her, and protect her. If the man truly loves his woman, he will. God expects the woman to inturn listen to her husband and respect him, and if the man does his task, the woman will follow... of course providing the man is being the right kind of husband and not some two-timing bum! :)
amen! i myslef am a fellow christian since i was three years old. i chose to believe in God, because i have not found a grater love then what God can give to you. it is sad that many people have done grate evil in the name of their God. but my God only teahces love and not hate. being a born again child of God, like me is a choice of love. so chose you this day whom you will serve. i have chosen and enteral life in heaven is my reward. because no one may come onto the father but by me. that is what jesus says. he also said that whoever takes away from my word, that will be taken from you. what you add on, so will all the curses of my word be added onto you. that is his words not mine. peace.

[LOBO REY]

I relies the Catholics did not do it alone but they are very good at it and I did not have time to fully rant. Paul did it. He betrayed the Jusitsus. Thats why I said the Catholics and the Greeks. more later no time.

[J.L.R.]

*cough*Spellchecker* cough*

[LV426]

I relies the Catholics did not do it alone but they are very good at it and I did not have time to fully rant. Paul did it. He betrayed the Jusitsus. Thats why I said the Catholics and the Greeks. more later no time.

First of all it is Jesuits not Jusitus. Second, one person's betrayal does not make an entire religion bad. The concept of religion was originally to give humanity hope and to explain why things are the way they are. It is not a church that makes the religion bad, it is a person who twists the teachings of their religion to suit their own agenda. ie: "I love you but only if you do what I think you should and if you chose another path I hate you." But God, the christian god, teaches that only god may pass judgement and you are to treat others the way you wish to be treated. There are so many religions and each person that belongs to a specific religion believes that he or she is right and everyone else is wrong. It's when you get those self righteous that you have a problem because they can't live and let live, they believe that they have to convince the non-believers that they are right and get them to convert.

[LOBO REY]

The Catholic Church is founded own a twisted scripture. They know this and fight to keep it that way. When your told to care for others and ya been feed that your way is right it is understandable that you get the preachy Christians or whatever.
Damn ran out of time.

[LV426]

It's all twisted scripture. It was written thousands of years ago by men that are long dead. No one knows the real scripture that was originally written. It has been changed by kings, and priests, and popes, and others to make their own ideals more palatable. There is no one true scripture, not for anyone, so don't sit on a soapbox and bitch about the catholics twisting scripture, every religion has done that.

[LOBO REY]

Actually I'm preaching War but that is not the point. There is a true scripture but it is hidden. It’s all a mystery, a game, the scriptures are written in riddles. All religions are right and wrong. God likes to fuck with people and I don't blame him it is fun. Especially the closed minded. I'm a warmonger, I'd be surprised if I didn't go to Hell. I don't get pissed at God for it. It is wrong to worship God to get out of going to Hell. And the constant complaining about it doesn’t help the person they preach to. I searched through the bullshit to find my own concept of God. That is all Christians and Jews can do, is to find him your damn self.

[StrayWolfen]

However this is a serious problem with this arguement. Those who were "Spreading" the word of God, themselves were not Christians. They were Catholics.

Actually, catholics were the first christians. The problem with Christianity is that christians typically didn't and many still don't follow their own teachings. As far as "at swordpoint" both major religions to come out of the middle east (Christianity and Muslim) seem to have shed the most blood in the name of religion. Ironically, those are the only religions I'm aware of that actively tried/try to convert people as well.

[StrayWolfen]

And I haven't either. Just because I say that Christianity improved my life, am I being preachy? If it did, do I lie? Just because you tell somebody how something changed their lives, that ISN'T shoving it down their throat, and I think most people would agree with me. I find that the only ones who scream force, are those who don't nor ever would even consider Christianity...


I have tried to believe in Christianity many times. The fact of the matter is though, people need different things in religion. To someone else, another religion may make them feel the way you feel about yours. Honestly, I like hearing about peoples' beliefs, and I don't believe in all that politically correct crap. The idea is though, even though Christianity or Muslim, or Judaism may have made one person happy, Paganism or Buddhism, or (insert other religion here) may make another person happy. Honestly, no one KNOWS for certain what the truth is, so everyone has to go on their own faith, what they feel in their own heart. I just find it hard to tell someone else they're wrong when I know they may feel about their beliefs the way I feel about mine. I have no problem with anyone's beliefs as long as they're not rambling on about politically correct crap OR on the other extreme of telling me that what I believe is wrong. On the other hand, it is nice to discuss religious and philosophical ideas because you may actually learn something new, or find that something else you hear here or there may make more sense. Honestly, I didn't like someone telling me what I should believe or shouldn't believe. I like reading, discussing, and reformulating my beliefs afterward based on my own understanding. That's why I don't care for more structured religions. In a less structured setting, I can celebrate life and divinity in my own way and not have to worry about other peoples' opinions, or other people not obeying their own doctrines. It's kinda nice really. :) Ah well. To each their own.

[StrayWolfen]

I went on to tell them that Christianity is not a clothing or garmet. I said, you shouldn't have to wear 40 Jesus Rocks! pins on your shirt to prove you are a Christian. People should see that by your actions.

Coming from a multicultural background with having several friends from many different faiths and walks in life, I was taught to respect others beliefs. I have Hindu, Muslim, Catholic, even Buddist friends, spanning across the globe. My Grandparents taught me that you would never get somebody to listen to you if you insult them, because everyone one has a belief, and customs that come with that belief.

In short, I feel that if many more Christians practiced what they preached, less people would turn away, and possibly listen.

Actually, that reminds me of a cool poster a christian friend/roommate of mine had. It said "Preach the Gospel wherever you go, and if necessary, use words." Think it was a quote attributed to St. Francis. Also along this line...that trendy What Would Jesus Do jewelry. I really liked what a friend of mine used to say: "Did Jesus sit there and say 'Hmm...what would I do?' Point of the matter is, I have no problem with the general message of christianity and Jesus sounds like a pretty cool guy...but I think the bible has been tampered with by various religious and political powers. I don't like what christians are today, and I have been turned away from christianity because some of my most fundamental beliefs are not understood or accepted by christians, and thus I am not accepted. I find more peace and satisfaction sitting quietly in my room honoring what I hold dear than attending any church. I also find various places in nature much more inspiring and powerful than the atmosphere of any church. These things have led me to celebrate life and divinity as I understand it in solitude. Once again, to each his own.