Individuality and the Herd Animal

[LV426]

http://hermogene.online.fr/goth.jpg

Pale skin, dark eyes, black lipstick, and an aura of sadness. Typically these attributes are assigned to those of the goth culture. People who thrive on their individuality and their differences from those in the mainstream. But are they individuals? They gather together with people that look just like them and who listen to the same kinds of music, who share the same "I am the only one like me, I am different" mentality. All they are doing however is just joining a herd. Albeit a slightly different herd than other people and yet still a herd.

http://www.confessio.de/okkult/bilder/lavey1.jpg

Anton LaVey was tired of the mainstream. He broke free and decided to be an individual, preaching about his individual beliefs and feelings, and desires. Eventually others also thought that they were individualists and agreed with LeVay. They too became Satanists. Reveling in their individuality until they were gathering together and calling themselves the Church of Satan. All of them so different than everyone else and yet again they were in a herd. Sure not a herd of millions but a herd none the less.


http://www.b25000.net/beaux-arts/natures_mortes/christ.jpg

Along time ago there were some people that were different as well. They said that they were different, even blessed, because they had someone special watching over them. There were quite a few of these people and they were a great herd. And then that changed. Members of the herd seemed to feel differently. Sure it was still the same but there were differences and a man spoke up and began to speak great words of wisdom. Telling people that they could experiance the ultimate gift of immortality. He was different from others and yet he was the same. People gravitated to him and soon he too had a herd, or as he called it, a flock. This flock of people began to grow and even after the man who was different died, the flock continued to grow. And now this flock of people who were so different than others and so sure about truth, has become one of the largest flocks in the world.

There is no individuality, there are only herds and people rarely stray except to maybe join a different herd or flock.

Where has the individuality gone? Once people relied on each other like members of a herd to survive but now people rely on the members of their herds to feel better about themselves. Is anyone ever an individual? It seems to me that individuality is a concept that humans can never acheive.

[blueeyes]

It depends on what you consider to be an individual. Even the hermit relies on other people... and as long as there are other hermits, that person is just another part of the herd. Then, on the other side of things, everyone's interpretation of a thing is different, no matter how well they've studied the matter, and that certainly means that few differences exist in everyone's way of looking at themselves.
Now, on a more legitimate scale, the only people that are really individuals, choosing their actions by what they feel are correct and joining in groups only to survive... mostly sociopaths, althought there would be a good many normal people who simply don't care enough to join any herds. But even both of those are just groups.

I'd like to point out that even in the past, people still grouped themselves, although then it was more by class or place of birth than by 'society' or 'religion' or some other made up way to waste time (irony drumroll, please). Although one is much worse than the other.

[Obsidian Claws]

Where has the individuality gone? Once people relied on each other like members of a herd to survive but now people rely on the members of their herds to feel better about themselves. Is anyone ever an individual? It seems to me that individuality is a concept that humans can never acheive.

I like to think of individuality in a more loose sense then how you are describing it. Of course, no one can be completly and absolutely different in every way from the other 6.5 billion people on the planet, simply because anything you choose to do, or say, or whatever, has probably already been done. But in a more relaxed sense, individuality means more along the lines that a person is not easily influenced by everyday things that other people are doing. Basicly a person who for the most part, thinks for themselves, and makes decisions based on what they feel is right and good, rather than what the media is telling them is cool, or what there friends are doing, wearing, saying, etc.

You can still be an individual without being original :)

[DarkWolf]

Individualism, in political and economic philosophy, the doctrine, promulgated by such theorists as the English philosopher Thomas Hobbes and the Scottish economist Adam Smith, that society is an artificial device, existing only for the sake of its members as individuals, and properly judged only according to criteria established by them as individuals. An individualist does not necessarily subscribe to the doctrine of egoism, which regards self-interest as the only logical human motivation. He or she may instead be guided in political and economic thinking by motives of altruism, holding that the end of social, political, and economic organization is the greatest good for the greatest number. What characterizes such an individualist thinker, however, is his or her conception of the “greatest number” as composed of independent units and an opposition to the interference of the state with the happiness or freedom of these units.

Individualist tendencies or theories play a part in all the sciences that deal with a person as a social being. Although individualism would theoretically consider the state as placing an artificial restraint on a person's individual tendencies, practical distinctions between individualism and its antitheses, such as socialism, are often difficult to make. Individualism differs from socialist or collectivist theories not so much in setting a high value upon the well-being and free initiative of the individual as in subordinating the demands of the community as a whole to individual welfare.

[Blazer]

It often seems the only people who are individuals are those that say:
"I follow the crowd."

[Wolf-Bone]

I think the whole reason social outcasts tend to march to the beat of their own drum is because it's easier to do one if you have the other.

Some people are ostricized by their peers for no apparent reason what so ever, and decide if that's how it's going to be, they have nothing to lose by conducting themselves in what ever manner they please. It's understandable, and the only real solace one has when some people try everything to fit in, only to be met with rejection. Especially in highschool. However, that's not to say there aren't people who truly do "ask for it".

A clique is a clique. The only reason jocks have been around longer than goths is because football has been around longer than Marilyn Manson. To be perfectly honest, I have no idea who people drawn to the goth "culture" would have hung out with before that whole thing became popular. Maybe they truly were loners before then, but they're not now. And there's nothing wrong with that.

EVERYbody wants to be down. Humans have an inherent need to interact with those they feel can relate to them on some level. Even in junior high, when I felt like the whole world was against me and I was equally against the world, I still needed people who could relate to that. Even though I would've told you a completely different story back then, I think my lack of a clique had nothing to do with a desire to be an individual, and everything to do with a lack of like-minded people in my area. I've ALWAYS had a group of friends. Most of them were bad influences, and I knew it. In our group, none of us really had ANYTHING in common except a willingness to accept just about anybody if they accepted us. But I could at least relate to THAT, so I still hung out with them no matter how much greif it caused me. And the moment I got to college and found some friends who truly were on my level, I quit hanging out with that other crowd almost completely. Because now, I see the difference between people who congregate because they enjoy each others company, and those who do it because they've got no one else to hang out with.


I think a true individualist, because of how much they value the principle of self expression, will accept anybody, regardless of frivolous things like how they dress or what music they like as long as they don't try to make them comprimise that principle. They enjoy the company of their own kind, naturally, but also like to be around different groups once in a while because it allows them to see the world through another set of eyes, and adds to their philosophy rather than detracts from it. They wish very much to be social, they just don't believe superficial conformity should be required.

[Nightmare GenoReaper]

Where has the individuality gone? Once people relied on each other like members of a herd to survive but now people rely on the members of their herds to feel better about themselves. Is anyone ever an individual? It seems to me that individuality is a concept that humans can never acheive.

It's like you said before Lycan, it's the curse of being intellgent that this is happening.

And being an individual depends upon where you stand, first person or third person.

If you are looking at a third person view point, there is no individual. A third person viewpoint is something you described, grouping people, a human thing to do.

Look at a snow flake... it seems small and insignificant as a single snowflake, and no two are exactly alike. Combine a bunch of snowflakes togethor and they will all look the same.

Just like with anything in life, where you stand is how you come about conclusions, so never stay still
;)

[Hellcat]

The individual is the person who does not follow a crowd, but is followed by a crowd. The difference between an individual and a religion is that the individual couldn't give a crap about its followers :p.

most people are individual in their own right

[Hybrid]

Where has the individuality gone? Once people relied on each other like members of a herd to survive but now people rely on the members of their herds to feel better about themselves. Is anyone ever an individual? It seems to me that individuality is a concept that humans can never acheive.

Each person is their own person. Everyone is an individual, but as soon as we find someone who agrees with what we say, the "group mind" begins.

There's nothing wrong with being a part of a group (we are social animals, it's inevitable) as long as you are being honest with yourself. The moment the individual forsakes his own judgement and simply goes along with what the group is doing, that's when "herd mentality" sets in.

For me personally, I'd rather blend in with the crowd so that I can manipulate it (try it, it's actually fun!) rather than stand out like a sore thumb and remain excluded. Having that kind of flexibility gives the manipulator a good dose of power. :cool: