Equal Rights: Homosexuality

[wolfwolf]

If anyone has heard about the recall election in California, a big issue that's going to come up with whoever becomes governor is equal rights. Does the constitution not say that everyone is created equal? Shouldn't that mean same sex couples have the right to get married? I picked up this thing today that was put out by the Traditional Values Coalition and I few things they say really got me in a rage. They say things like : "supposed hate crimes" "so-called harrassment" "so-call prejudice". "so-called homosexual discrimination" "so-called bias"

Does anyone else see anything wrong with that?
Discrimination and hate crimes don't change based on who they're toward. They are still hate crimes. Prejudice is prejudice. There's just no excuse for how ugly this is. And this coalition does it all in the name of morals and religion. Let me tell you GOD DOES NOT SUPPORT HATE CRIMES. And how is homosexuality immoral?
This just really pissed me off. Everyone is equal, end of story.

[Sorrowsong]

I can't say I've paid much attention to the election in California since I'm all the way over on the East side. However, I do agree with the idea that all homosexuals should have equal rights as others since it's under the constitution. Especially since I'm a homosexual myself... *waits to be hauled off and beaten to a bloody pulp.*

Anyway... I'm thinking one of the reasons people aren't so keen on the idea of same-sex marriages is because it seems so sudden. People are still getting used to us in most places. In other places that are very conformed aren't going to want to tolerate anybody who's different, especially somebody that may be prone to hitting on someone of the same gender. That might explain at least one reason why people think homosexuality is immoral. Some people are just brought up thinking that you can't love somebody unless you can reproduce with them. I've actually had a girl who accused me of being selfish because I wouldn't be able to "create new life with my partner".

You're right about hate crimes and discrimination. Prejudice is prejudice, and unforunately it will never, EVER be cleared out of society. Also, not everybody thinks that everyone is equal. There are christians out there who think athiests are inferior because they don't share the same beliefs as they do and vice-versa.

[ArcaneWolf]

:wolfs in agreement with Sorrowsong:

I'm a fairly open minded individual and I believe homosexuals should have the same rights as heterosexuals.

Do you think it's right for a person's significant other not able to visit them in the hospitial because they aren't legally "family"? NO!

Over the years the world has become more accepting of homosexuals, but in the past few years Conservatives & religious zealots have been trying to prevent homosexuals from having equal rights. And why do they do this? BECAUSE THEY LOOK AT THE BIBLE AND SAY HOMOSEXUALITY IS EVIL. And to damn someone because of a old, dusty book of hypocritical theology is ridiculous.

welcome to the board sorrowsong ::howls::

[wolfwolf]

*waits to be hauled off and beaten to a bloody pulp.*
If anyone says anything I'll verbally kick their ass.

Do you think it's right for a person's significant other not able to visit them in the hospitial because they aren't legally "family"? NO!

That's horrible. I didn't even know that. People just need to use some common sense.Anyway, thanks for reading my thread guys, I was really raged when I read about that this morning.

[Wolf-Bone]

The problem with the "zealots" and assorted other homophobes is, they look at something like someone making the proposal that homosexuals should be given the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else, and to them it represents a threat to their way of life. It's not going to be easy, or quick, to beaurocratically change the programming of a society. We're supposed to live in an equal-opportunist society, but in practice we don't, in a lot of ways. You ask a lot of these talking heads that can't fathom the idea of two people of the same sex being allowed to marry, and as backwards as it may seem, they don't even think of themselves as being "anti-gay". To them, they're the ones being threatened. They're simply trying to preserve thier idea of what is right and wrong, according to how they were brought up. And the politicians (the ones that actually can change anything) are merely responding to that. Because if they create laws which the the public deems as being a threat to their ways, it can jeopardize their careers. That's why change has to be gradual. And the way things are going, homosexuals probably will be able to legally marry one day, IF they keep fighting. And also, if liberally-minded heterosexuals continue to support what, in their minds at least, should already be their right.

[McKitty]

Homosexuality has been proven as a natural thing in the animal world. It is partly religion and society nowadays that have turned it to a major taboo.

Personally, if you can accept one for their race, creed, gender, religion, you can get over that they feel more intimately comfortable with their own gender. Why should a man be with a woman if he doesn't feel like he belongs there and feels not right when he can be at peace with another man? Same with us girls.

[LV426]

Live and let live, unless they are stupid. Gay, straight, who cares, if they are stupid they are on the list for target practice.

[chriz]

The problem with the "zealots" and assorted other homophobes is, they look at something like someone making the proposal that homosexuals should be given the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else, and to them it represents a threat to their way of life.

Not to come down on the side of the bigot, but sometimes that fear is founded. "Equal rights" movements have a way of turning into "special treatment" movements -- if not legally, then often culturally -- and those are a threat to anyone not part of whatever particular subculture group is behind the movement.

FWIW.

[Wolffy13]

*Takes a deep breath* OK, I have a few opinions to voice on the whole matter.

First of all, I am so glad that the officials that we put into office are using OUR tax dollars to sit around decide if this is moral or not. DAMNIT! This isn't what we elect these people to do! We elect them to run the country, not decide how we should live our life. Damn Nazis, and that's what some of them are, too. I, myself, am a conservatist, but THAT just pisses me off. If they aren't going to use my tax money properly, I want it back! They ought to do something do their jobs, you know, the thing we put them into office for. :mad:

Second of all, moral or not, it is not our place to judge. They should just give them the rights and move into the 21st century already. Things change, deal with it!

Third, whether it is considered evil or not by the bible is not their problem. It's none of their business! Why don't they try to fix something that is truly broken, like the way we punish our criminals. Ugh, it's frickin' aweful.

*smoothes her fluffed fur* Guess it is time to write my congressman and let him know that, ultimately, we, the people, put him there and we can easily replace him. Gots to love democracy :D

[LadyPegUnicorn]

I support equal rights and people deserve equal share in this country. There should be no laws supporting or not supporting a group. That is not what this country is founded on. The United States of America is founded on people being equal. Know we have laws for everything because idiots out there like to kill for hate reasons. It is getting to the point this country will start becoming one big fight over morality when in reality morality shound never be the issue. That is why we seperated from the church.

[Wolf-Bone]

You know, something occured to me last night. Canada is often referred to as being backwards, yet when it comes to issues like crime & punishment, marijuana, and yes, even gay rights, we seem to be moving FORWARD compared to y'all.

I'm really beginning to question the validity of this national inferiority complex I've had since I began giving a damn about the rest of the world.

[RQ]

Not to come down on the side of the bigot, but sometimes that fear is founded. "Equal rights" movements have a way of turning into "special treatment" movements -- if not legally, then often culturally -- and those are a threat to anyone not part of whatever particular subculture group is behind the movement.

FWIW.

Without wanting to sound racist (I'm not) the first thing that came to mind when I read this was Affirmative Action. I mean, I enjoy diversity as much as the next person who enjoys diversity, but people should be getting into schools and getting jobs based on knowledge, skill, and potential - not the color of their skin.

[Kirin Fenrir]

I agree with this. I have nothing against anybody...I don't even believe in "race." (scientifically, there are no true "races" anymore)

Yet I think Affirative action is done. It's run it's course, and it should be disbanded. Several friends of mine got "minority grants" of $1000 or more for school, money that I myself(being white) had to pay out of pocket or loans. The thing is....schools don't discriminate anymore, so they had just as good of a chance as me based on SAT and high school grades.

I'll probably get flamed for this....but it's discriminating against people classified as "white"...many of them aren't being given a fair chance just beacause they're a majority.

Now, back to homosexuality, the original purpose of this topic. As long as people are of consenting age and not harming anyone else, LET THEM DO WHAT THEY WANT TO WITH EACH OTHER. You don't have to hear about it, you don't even have to think about it, but don't you dare dictate what they choose to do with thier own bodies.

And yes, that goes for polygamists(sp?) as well. I can't get into that myself, but if three people want to all be together...that's their business.

"Love is a beautiful thing." Humanity is only as diversified as distance. Which is rapidly becoming less and less of a problem.

[Jon Bloodstone]

Without wanting to sound racist (I'm not) the first thing that came to mind when I read this was Affirmative Action. I mean, I enjoy diversity as much as the next person who enjoys diversity, but people should be getting into schools and getting jobs based on knowledge, skill, and potential - not the color of their skin.

I think one of the big problems the "anti-gay" crowd has is the whole marriage thing. If it were call a "Commitment Ceremony" or a "Bonding Ceremony" they wouldn't be as resistant to it. Really, what this all boils down to is that homosexual couples, both male and female want to have the same rights as a married, hetrosexual couple. So allow gays couples to have a "Commitment Ceremony" then give them the same rights as a regular couple. What the hell is it going to hurt? Are the powers that be worried that gays will have multiple partners and not really settle down with one life partner or are they afraid that by legalizing it gays will just want more and more special treatment. All I know is that the only person I allow to judge me is God, whatever I do is between God and me. The same should apply to everyone else, if they are breaking God's law they will pay for it in the end but what if all those anti-gay supporters are the one's that are wrong... It should make for some really interesting moments at the Pearly Gates...

Jon

[ArcaneWolf]

::rolls eyes at Jon::

One thing that also has to be considered about is that compared to europe and Canada, America is a much more religious and conservative nation. And since those are deep parts of the American political culture, it'll be hard to get Homosexuals the same rights as heterosexuals. Still I can see things improving in the upcoming years. Depends upon the Judicial system though.

Wolf-Bone brought up another good point, the punishment for possesion of Marijuana is extremely unjust in this country!

[wolfwolf]

So allow gays couples to have a "Commitment Ceremony" then give them the same rights as a regular couple. What the hell is it going to hurt?
I know what you're saying isn't in anyway meant to be mean, however you really need to think about that. It's kind of like "sorry, you're not allowed to really get married because people think that will upset their life-- but you get the same rights". Being really married matters.
And I totally agree about the special treatment thing. It should be equal, but no one needs to be babied.

[Xzengrim]

Oh man!! Grim does not have the strength to offer any opinions here. If you want to know why, check out http://pub34.ezboard.com/ftheofficialjackforu mfrm3 under the post "Canada Legalizes Gay Marriage."
It's basically a greatly expostulated version of what could happen here given enough time. I've offered all the opinions I will ever have on homosexuality, and so I have no more for you.

I'll just give you the gist of it by saying that although I am personally against homosexuality, I realize that I have a societal obligation to see that homosexuals are offered all of the same rights and freedoms that heterosexuals are. I know enough to draw a line between what I think everyone should do and what I know would be best for the world at large.

[PAROXYSM]

Listen everybody, don't you think it is just a little hypocritical to point your finger at us Christians and say, " You're wrong for believing we're wrong."? Come on. In the bible, it does say homosexuality is wrong, and i believe that. BUT, in the same paragraph in that book, it says that stealing is wrong, murder, adultry, cursing, and the only thing seperating these things is a comma. The beautiful thing about God is that he loves us no matter what. It's you're choice to live that lifestyle, and i respect that. All i ask is for you too respect my beliefs, like i respect yours. Unfortunately, today, liberals look at conservatives Christian's like myself, and make all kinds of accusations to my character and beliefs, when they have no idea.
Now, on homosexuality, like i said, i believe it's wrong. I believe EVERYBODY does wrong, everyday. But thank God for grace, because we'd be screwed. Gay's go to heaven, so do murderers and thieves. I can't point my finger at anybody and accuse them of being wrong, because the truth is, what they do everyday is no more wrong than what i do. If they want to get married, that is their choice, and I truly believe that they should be able to. But why would you want to get married by the christian bible when you believe it is wrong, and that we Christians are wrong? That just doesn't make sense to me. But like i said, it's you're choice. You're body. That's awesome. A real Christian has no right to condemn anyone living a homosexual lifestyle, and a real Christian will love you no matter what you do or you're beliefs are. Just remember that when putting all of us into one category and claiming we're all alike, please.
And one more thing. Hate crimes are stupid. If i go out and murder a white guy, being white myself, it's not a hate crime. But if i murder some hispanic guy, it's a hate crime. That is so wrong, trying to say that that hispanic guys life is more important than that white guys life. Who gives a flip about intentions. It's the crime that matters. All crimes are done in hate. You can't murder someone you love. Then you wouldn't really love them, would you?

[wolfwolf]

Listen everybody, don't you think it is just a little hypocritical to point your finger at us Christians and say, " You're wrong for believing we're wrong."?
I'm a Christian and I'm "pointing my finger" at the Traditional Values Coalition.
In the bible, it does say homosexuality is wrong, and i believe that. BUT, in the same paragraph in that book, it says that stealing is wrong, murder, adultry, cursing, and the only thing seperating these things is a comma.
Yes, and whenever homosexuality is mentioned in the bible it's in the form of rape or pure lust. Never once in the form of an actual love.It's you're choice to live that lifestyle, and i respect that. All i ask is for you too respect my beliefs, like i respect yours. Unfortunately, today, liberals look at conservatives Christian's like myself, and make all kinds of accusations to my character and beliefs, when they have no idea.
Now, on homosexuality, like i said, i believe it's wrong. I believe EVERYBODY does wrong, everyday. But thank God for grace, because we'd be screwed. Gays go to heaven, so do murderers and thieves. I can't point my finger at anybody and accuse them of being wrong, because the truth is, what they do everyday is no more wrong than what i do.
I really respect you for disagreeing without condemning, because that's fine if you disagree. However, when someone is born a homosexual-- how is that a sin for them to fall in love?(don't get into it about "no one being born homosexual")

[Xzengrim]

Cursing is wrong? What kind of cursing? All cursing... or just the kind with God's name in it?