people of the wolf

[PAROXYSM]

I had mentioned earlier, in a different post, the Tonkawa people of Central Texas. I found it very interesting that they believed themselves to be descended from wolves. Possibly a source for werewolves in the United States?
But does anyone know anything more about these people? I know very little about the Tonkawa people, "People of the Wolf."

[LV426]

I had mentioned earlier, in a different post, the Tonkawa people of Central Texas. I found it very interesting that they believed themselves to be descended from wolves. Possibly a source for werewolves in the United States?
But does anyone know anything more about these people? I know very little about the Tonkawa people, "People of the Wolf."
Tonkawa (http://www.texasindians.com/tonk.htm)

More Tonkawa (http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/TT/bmt68.html)

Even More Tonkawa (http://www.angelfire.com/tx2/ecc/tonkawa.html)

http://www.texasindians.com/tonkwolf.jpg

[PAROXYSM]

That's an awesome picture. The Tonkawa wolf dance. So what do you think? Are they possible shape-shifters?

[LV426]

That's an awesome picture. The Tonkawa wolf dance. So what do you think? Are they possible shape-shifters?
Well the Tonks never state that they are shapeshifters. They merely believe that their ancestors were wolves. They also refused to become a sedeantary tribe and ramined hunter gatherers and lived along the same structure as a wolf pack. They respected the wolves and studied the wolves to learn how to hunt and how to interact. That doesn't make them shapeshifters it just makes them more in touch with their natural element.

There have been some native american tribes that claimed that their shamans and other holy people could change their shape and lead or call animals to them to hunt easier.

The Navajos also have a creature called a Skin Walker which is a man that is capable of changing his shape but they are considered evil and malevolent creatures. They perpetuated death and vengeance usually. There isn't very much about Skin Walkers available for the native americans are rather secretive about them. Some consider talking about Skin Walkers bad luck and that the mere mention of Skin Walkers can bring evil attention upon themselves and their families.

[Kishi-Garou]

If you look throughout the world's cultures, you'll find stuff like that all the time. They believe they came anscestrally from wolves, because they could communicate, and act socially with the animals. They led similar lives, and they all grouped in packs.

Most of spiritual belief before christian times, wasn't about shapeshifting physically, but changing the mind. There were stories of those who changed bodies, but those were of powerful people and were not to be taken lightly. Mostly, they emulated the wolf, because they had similar lifestyles.

But I want to know.. Why wear the skin of your cousins?

Of course, I wear a wolf claw around my neck. I wouldn't say its sacrilege, but when I saw it, I knew that some moron would buy it and not take care of it. I respect my token.

Hmm. But I wouldn't kill a wolf for its skin, because you usually don't eat their meat.

[LV426]

If you look throughout the world's cultures, you'll find stuff like that all the time. They believe they came anscestrally from wolves, because they could communicate, and act socially with the animals. They led similar lives, and they all grouped in packs.

Most of spiritual belief before christian times, wasn't about shapeshifting physically, but changing the mind. There were stories of those who changed bodies, but those were of powerful people and were not to be taken lightly. Mostly, they emulated the wolf, because they had similar lifestyles.

But I want to know.. Why wear the skin of your cousins?

Of course, I wear a wolf claw around my neck. I wouldn't say its sacrilege, but when I saw it, I knew that some moron would buy it and not take care of it. I respect my token.

Hmm. But I wouldn't kill a wolf for its skin, because you usually don't eat their meat.

Well predator skins were used as winter clothing. The winter pelts of animals were much thicker and more lush and hence warmer in times of extreme cold. Imagine periglacial conditions, you don't have the hide and fur of a wolf and so you must resort to killing predators such as wolves, larger cats, wolverines, and other thick furred animals. Wolverine fur was often times used as a face cover or fur because it was resistant to ice build up from exhalations.

You also have to realize that people in those times did not kill for sport. Every part of an animal was used if possible from the bones to the hides to the teeth and sinews. They were grateful to the animal for sacrificing it's life for them to continue to live. I have read that those who hunted certain animals that were considered totemic that there were rituals and rites that were performed before and after the hunt to appease and thank the animals spirit for it's sacrifice. It was also believed that to carry a piece of your totem spirit was good luck and that your animal spirit would be more inclined to help you and guide you when you needed it most.

[lordragoon]

Most Native Americans have myths similar to these. My favorite is the creation myth where all the tribes where able to choose what form they wanted, but one day another animal (Crow or Coyote) forced them to take only one form. Sounds like a nice creation myth - werewolves before humans...

[Kishi-Garou]

Yeah, that makes alot of sense. Trappers liked to use badger and wolverine fur for boots, for thickness to avoid snakebite, and so it won't freeze when you breathe on it. I was just saying, if you don't need something, why take it?

I am a descendant of the mdewakanton band of the dakota sioux, who were shipped from minnesota to ft. thompson SD. Of course, this doesn't mean didley squat. Really, all I know is spending summers with my family, being raised in a tiny bit of culture from my mom, and reading. I was the only child not to be born on the rez.

Scouts would sometimes use wolf skins to approach buffalo herds. There is a famous picture by George Catlin of him and a few indians approaching a herd while dressed like such. I can understand using it for the fur, and the sinew and such, but with so much buffalo in times of plenty, why waste such a great creature?

Personally, I would do it in quite a bit of moderation. But that means nothing.

[LV426]

Scouts would sometimes use wolf skins to approach buffalo herds. There is a famous picture by George Catlin of him and a few indians approaching a herd while dressed like such. I can understand using it for the fur, and the sinew and such, but with so much buffalo in times of plenty, why waste such a great creature?

Personally, I would do it in quite a bit of moderation. But that means nothing.


Kishi, imagine that you are hunting on two legs with little more than a wooden stick with a sharp edge. (Yes I know that flint edges can have the sharpness of a scalpel). There is this great beast before you, one that weighs over a thousand pounds, and one that is known to be tempermental and extremely agressive when attacked. Your entire tribe relies upon you and your companions for these animals to be killed so they can make it through the winter.

Basically these hunters believed that wearing the hide, fur, teeth, or bone from the most fiercest and greatest hunters would help them hunt as well and give them an edge over the bison and other creatures that they hunted.

If faced with 1,000 pound animal that has the capability of squishing me to mince meat beneath it's hooves, or goring me with it's horns, I would want all the help I could get.

Another point is that the predators fur is thicker than the deer and bison. Bison and deer have good hide that clothes can be fashioned out of, but even with the hair left on there was very little insulation. Therefore they used the predator furs for warmth. Wolverine, badger, mink, all of these animals have fur that grows thick in winter and repels frost build up. Wolves and foxes provided larger furs to be used as a heavy outer covering. In fact the only grazing animal that has a thick enough fur to help keep one warm in North America is the Reindeer and those were not plains animals. So the native americans used what was essentially provided for them.

This usage of animal skins to convey hunting prowess is not only a native american practice. In the jungles of South America there were fierce hunters known as Jaguar people. Their temples were decorated with Jaguar headed gods, and carvings of the great cat. Their warriors dressed in the skins of the spotted cat and believed that they embodied the fierce feline when they did so. They lead hunts and raids dressed in their battle skins. There are stories that the Jaguar people were Jaguars that were able to become men and lived as humans to worship their Jaguar God, but never forgot where they came from. Maybe they were shape shifters, I suppose anything is possible but since the Jaguar people are long gone and all we have left are the ruins of their cities and temples I fear we shall never know the truth.


As for moderation, it isn't as if they went out and slaughtered entire packs. In fact usually the wolves were either lone wolves or ones that the indians had trapped. Also the skins were sometimes passed down frrom generation to generation although the greatest warriors and leaders were buried with their most impressive clothing and so probably would have taken their furry mantles with them.

It was not the Native Americans that took so many wolf lives. It was the white man and their fear that did them in, just as they took away the great herds of bison that once roamed the plains. The buffalo wolf was the largest species of wolf that roamed the plains, it was even larger than the timber wolf, and now that species of wolf is completely gone. Their hides and skins never used, just left to rot in the sun along with the vast herds of decimated buffalo, now they are just dust.

[Xzengrim]

There are wolf-people tribes in Germany, the British Isles, India, and all across Northern Europe. There always have been, because many different peoples claim that they were either descended from wolves, or that the wolves were their brothers.
For those of you who've read Beowolf, remember the tribe of the Wylfings. They are actually the Ylfingar, the children of the Wolf- a north-eastern German tribe who garnered their namesake by sending their young men into the forests to live with the wolves for a full year before granting them the title of warrior. Sounds like fun; I'd do it. Too bad they all died out in the 4th century AD.
On a related note, the aborigines of Austrailia believe that humankind descended from the Wallabees. So I don't know how accurate the whole animal lineage thing may be.

[silenceowl]

Dude!
i live in austin, i never even heard of this.
silenceowls eyes grow wide, and a vien pops out of his head, then he shouts "Must do research!" with foam pouring out of his mouth.:drool: