Lycans and the Celts...someone help me out here

[lycanlaume]

Ok, just curious, maybe I am totally daft when it comes to werewolf heritage but why in Underworld is there so much celtic symbolism with the lycans and vampires???

[LV426]

Ok, just curious, maybe I am totally daft when it comes to werewolf heritage but why in Underworld is there so much celtic symbolism with the lycans and vampires???
This should be in Lore and Mythology or in movies however maybe if you provide specific references to this celtic symbolism we could better answer your question.

[lycanlaume]

This should be in Lore and Mythology or in movies however maybe if you provide specific references to this celtic symbolism we could better answer your question.


There were celtic knot circles all throughout the movie. On the costumes, and the necklace that Lucian wore is a celtic shield, I know this b/c I have almost the exact same necklace. SO, I gues my question would be, what is the deal with Lycans/Vampires, and celtic knots?? thanks

[LV426]

There were celtic knot circles all throughout the movie. On the costumes, and the necklace that Lucian wore is a celtic shield, I know this b/c I have almost the exact same necklace. SO, I gues my question would be, what is the deal with Lycans/Vampires, and celtic knots?? thanks

Well I suppose that the celtic knots and the celtic sheild could be because that is where they were from. They never really said where the Lycans and Vamps originated but we did know they were overseas because Amelia was coming from overseas and Kraven mentioned that the American and European vampire brethren were coming together.

Although there are no longer wolves in Ireland there are some tales that St. Patrick drove the werewolves out of Ireland as well as the snakes. Ireland is a country steeped in magic and the supernatural so it is completely plausible to think that vampires and werewolves lived in Ireland at one time.

[Wraywolf]

Ok, just curious, maybe I am totally daft when it comes to werewolf heritage but why in Underworld is there so much celtic symbolism with the lycans and vampires???Because Hollywood is, in actuality, a large cult devoted to the worship of Hostess brand Twinkie snack food. Their mission in life is to spread the word of Twinkie the kid, their messiah, through subliminal messaging. Have you ever wondered why after starring at Britney's prostheticlly made boobies, you desire to consume a Twinkie? There is you answer, my friend.

These Twinkianites are heavy on satanic rituals and human sacrifice. They are also behind all, that’s right, all of humankind’s woes. The AIDS virus, Hitler clones, the letter ‘s’ in the word ‘lisp’, and Michel Jackson just to name a few. These evil bastards will stop at nothing, nothing I say, until the world is there’s!

You must RESIST, brave comrades! RESIST THE--- Aww, is it time for my shot already? But I was in my happy place, sir! Thinking happy thoughts!

Ohh, I suppose I must, tho- Ow! oh my, look at the colors! *thump*

[lycanlaume]

Although there are no longer wolves in Ireland there are some tales that St. Patrick drove the werewolves out of Ireland as well as the snakes. Ireland is a country steeped in magic and the supernatural so it is completely plausible to think that vampires and werewolves lived in Ireland at one time.[/QUOTE]


I thought that the Celts weren't totally from Ireland. I know that there are probably more celts in Ireland than anywhere else in the world but I have read that it did not all originate from there. Nonetheless, I see your point. Thanks. yet another reason for me to visit Ireland next year.

[Chaoil]

Although there are no longer wolves in Ireland there are some tales that St. Patrick drove the werewolves out of Ireland as well as the snakes. Ireland is a country steeped in magic and the supernatural so it is completely plausible to think that vampires and werewolves lived in Ireland at one time.


I thought that the Celts weren't totally from Ireland. I know that there are probably more celts in Ireland than anywhere else in the world but I have read that it did not all originate from there. Nonetheless, I see your point. Thanks. yet another reason for me to visit Ireland next year.[/QUOTE]
You are correct ;). The celts were all over europe, In North africa, and even in Asia Minor(galatia).
No one knows or cares anymore exp. for historians or pagans....and usually the pagans are familiar with misconceptions.
Celtic Knotwork originated in post-christian culture, by the gaels(Irish,Scots..e ct). As I recall Irish monks were pretty gothic looking, the put ash around their eyes...ect. But To see how celtic knots relate you Lycanthropy and Vampirism...You'd need to check out the Celtic vampires/Lycans...The sidhe. derrivative of the Tuatha De Dannan(sp?)

I have yet to see the movie so I don't know what these symbols are...But as for the sidhe, and baolbhan sith, I have quite a bit of info on. Now the sidhe are fairies, but not in the cute flutter around, or classical cornish since...The sidhe are immortals, often taller than mortal men, supernatural creatures that live in hidden places called raths.
Yes, shapshifting and vampirism are not alien to these people. Baolbhan sith(another word for fairy) are the scottish vampires[female], known to turn into crows, seduce men, and eat them =P yum.
The point is, The celtic fairy is probably the closest thing to the modern idea of an immortal(Vamp, Were)...They were condemned as devils or fallen angels by Christian theologists of old, i.e they are "damned". And unlike other cultures, these vampires are not walking corpses. They are a heiarchy, like the modern vamp/were, they also have clans and issues among themselves. They don't age. They are known for "taking" mortals, like modern vampires, ect. Plus, Sidhe are freaking cool, you should read up on them.

If anything I said was incorrect, correct me.

[Chaoil]

http://www.fortunecity.se/kista/doman/4/mythology/b/baobhan_sith.html
I mispelled it, Baobhan....Hard to remember your Scots-Gaelic when no one speaks it...:(
lol try learning how to pronounce it! Baobhan Sith is pronounced something like: veeoovan Shee

Anyway, these dark fae chicks are an exact picture of our English "vampires". Ohh yeah..there was something else I forgot to tell you...ohh yeah, that's it.. Baobhan sith means "wicked fairy chick". They can shapeshift, like I said, usually turn into crows.
And though Celts, and their art and culture was everywhere in europe, It's pretty much dead everywhere other than the "british" isles, or its withering for the past 2thousand years. It's been dying for a long time now...And it's closer to dead than ever. Ireland is nothing like what it used to be...Though, I'm not an expert, nor have I been to Scotland or Ireland, I'd say it's still there, just not the way it was. And the highlands are probably the most gaelic or regions...not that I'd know.Anyway, the point is, It was in germany, but it isn't anymore...and Celtic knotwork was mostly done by the Irish/scots/ect.

[lycanlaume]

"For all the hillside was haunted
By the faery folk come again
And down in the heart-light enchanted
Were opal-coloured men"


Read a nice little piece by Lady Gregory on them. And, by the way, you are correct.

[LV426]

Up the airy mountain,
down the rushing glen,
we dare not go a hunting,
for fear of little men.

-Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory

[ThrasherCub]

Well they'd been fighting for quite a long time, and in the flashbacks they didn't appear to have aged, so they could have been alive for countless years before the fighting started. And both the Vampires and the 'Wolves seemed very into traditions. Makes sense that they'd want to keep the symbolism with them. At least I would.
*grabs bag of Noric Rune stones and a necklace with Thor's Hammer charm on it*

Es gibt nix
was es nicht gibt

[Faelcind]

Just wanted to comment Chaoil's post on the Baobhan sidhe. First of all it would be pronounced Buvan shee or bowvan shee depending on the accent. It Baobh essential means wich and derives from the name of of trinity of old irish war goddesses who were shape shifters mostly into ravens, the most famous of which was the morigann. One of the most interesting goddesses I have ever read about. Sith means people of peace litereally and is just the word for the faeries. So fairy witches would the closest translation. I doubt that they were any inspiration to the filmakers though. I think its just cause celtic stuff is fashionable. As for werewolves. In irish myth they are humans usually not sidhe. My own family was suspected of being werewolves in ireland.

As for celts in genereal thats really a pretty conterversial issue with allot of different opinions in the scholarly world. But basically the heart of the issue is this Keltoi was word the greeks used to describe certain people in the far north probably along the danube most like these people the people at the center of the hallstat material culture and spoke a language related to modern gaelic and welsh. Eventually the word Celtae(latin) was used for any people of similar ethnicity and language through out the european mainland and even to asia minor. Importantly though they reconginized that the peoples of the british isles were closely related to gauls and some tribes were present in gaul and britain. However the people of the british were not called celtae by the romans. The term celtic was first applied to welsh and gaelic speakers by 19th century linguists because of linguistic similarity. At the time it was thought that language, race, and material culture were all consistently allied so the celts of caesar's time must by there linguistic similarity form a distinct race and culture with the gaelic and welsh speaking cultures. While the physcial part of this equation has long been rejected its only recently that the linguistic and cultural portions have been disallied. Now we can only say that the peoples of britain prior to the anglo saxons spoke celtic languages how much of their ethnic identity and material and ideological culture was shared with the celts proper is matter for debate. As is the antiquity of celtic langauges in the isles and were those languages orginated and how they spread.

[The Blue Wolf]

Because Hollywood is, in actuality, a large cult devoted to the worship of Hostess brand Twinkie snack food. Their mission in life is to spread the word of Twinkie the kid, their messiah, through subliminal messaging. Have you ever wondered why after starring at Britney's prostheticlly made boobies, you desire to consume a Twinkie? There is you answer, my friend.

These Twinkianites are heavy on satanic rituals and human sacrifice. They are also behind all, that’s right, all of humankind’s woes. The AIDS virus, Hitler clones, the letter ‘s’ in the word ‘lisp’, and Michel Jackson just to name a few. These evil bastards will stop at nothing, nothing I say, until the world is there’s!

You must RESIST, brave comrades! RESIST THE--- Aww, is it time for my shot already? But I was in my happy place, sir! Thinking happy thoughts!

Ohh, I suppose I must, tho- Ow! oh my, look at the colors! *thump*


Very kool & Creative, you should write a book. :buttrock: :cool: :D :

[Mike_Mabry]

if u look at the castle that lucian was in, it is easily compared with other Celtic castles of the time! but i still think that hollywood is 1 big crocka shit! i also believe thatthe weres came here with the vamps! the would be protectors were following some elders to kill them!

[LV426]

Did no one find it strange that the entire movie contradicted itself?

I mean they state that the bite of a vampire or werewolf to a human is deadly. So how did Selene even get made? The population of vampires was phenomenal so where did they all come from? There are too many gaps to explain it.

It's fiction and not very good fiction at that.

[Varg]

http://www.fortunecity.se/kista/doman/4/mythology/b/baobhan_sith.html
I mispelled it, Baobhan....Hard to remember your Scots-Gaelic when no one speaks it...:(
lol try learning how to pronounce it! Baobhan Sith is pronounced something like: veeoovan Shee

Anyway, these dark fae chicks are an exact picture of our English "vampires". Ohh yeah..there was something else I forgot to tell you...ohh yeah, that's it.. Baobhan sith means "wicked fairy chick". They can shapeshift, like I said, usually turn into crows.
And though Celts, and their art and culture was everywhere in europe, It's pretty much dead everywhere other than the "british" isles, or its withering for the past 2thousand years. It's been dying for a long time now...And it's closer to dead than ever. Ireland is nothing like what it used to be...Though, I'm not an expert, nor have I been to Scotland or Ireland, I'd say it's still there, just not the way it was. And the highlands are probably the most gaelic or regions...not that I'd know.Anyway, the point is, It was in germany, but it isn't anymore...and Celtic knotwork was mostly done by the Irish/scots/ect.

Ah, you think that the Celts are nearly gone. You are reading a message from an original home grown Celt. For truth that Celts still exist in force, just go to stonehenge at the summer solstice. :D

[blueeyes]

Actually, Lh, if I remember the plot right, the saying was that people often die from a "bite of an immortal", but they didn't always. It makes sense as a plot device: prevents the werewolves and vampires overtaking humans paradox that you'd see otherwise. It was only if a person was bitten by both a werewolf and a vampire that they would certainly die (unless, of course, they're "spedcial".)
May not have been a great movie, but the logical flaws were more why the clouds part for just long enough to wake up the main character. Dues ex Machina everywhere.