Conformist

[Buddha Monkey]

Well, this was brought up in the non-confomist thread, but I think it merits as much attention.

What is a conformist? Is it someone that "fits in", or is it someone that "live's the lifestyle"?

Are all Goth's conformists?

What does that term mean to you? What does it mean to conform into a society?

Discuss, bicker (as it's going to happen anyway), and have fun.

[Aniutuk]

A conformist is someone who can adapt to anything willingly or unwillingly. No, Goths are not conformists. But to put this simply, Conformists are pussys. Anyway, nobody can conform to everything and nobody can rebel against everything either. :cool:

[gingersnaps]

i've always said this. even non-conformists conform. to conform would be to join (in my opinion). non-conformists conform to eachother about conformists...confuz ing? i hope not! it's only from my observations going into the punk music rooms. everyone conforms to something, yes even goths...to a certain point. even i conform! i didnt start everything ive done, unno? hopefully no one takes offense to my opinion, after all it shouldnt mean anything! it's just what i think.

[voldraj]

I think that in order to be a non-conformist you should not do what society tells you to do. DON'T dress provactively, DON'T have sex before you're married...things like...I think that they would make you non-conformist...or something along those lines...

[Teej]

Goths could be considered conformists. They find a niche of people or a lifestyle they like and they live by it. Most non-conformists are in an insane asylum somewhere, to be honest.

Just remember that being a conformist isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as you feel comfortable with it and as long as you stay who you really are.

[Edwardo_son_of_haqim]

Just remember that being a conformist isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as you feel comfortable with it and as long as you stay who you really are.
Um...wouldn't conforming by definition be not staying true to who you are?

[DarkWolf]

Um...wouldn't conforming by definition be not staying true to who you are?
No. It can still be who you are because it's your personality that decides whether you conform or not.

I find it funny how you all struggle with definitions and yet the definitions are easy. If you follow a particular scheme you are conforming - willingly or not - and if you don't follow it then you are not conforming. I can't fathom why you are all applying scenario-orientated terminology to such generic examples where the terms barely fit.

For example: You go to work, they have a dress code, you follow that dress code: thus you are conforming.

However even though you are conforming to that scenario of dress code there can still be a code or rule for say always washing hands after using the rest rooms - you decide not to thus you are a non-conformist to that scenario.

So are you a conformist or a non-conformist? Both. Nobody can go through their entire lives being one or the other - at some point, somehow, you're going to be both.

As for this goth thing: What are the requirements of goth (dress codes, fave genres, specific actions, etc)? Do you meet those requirements? If yes - you're conforming to a standard whether you like it or not, otherwise you are not conforming to that standard.

Conformity is irrelevant to whether the requirements are being met willingly or not - just as long as they are being met then to that specific standard you're a conformist.

Being a conformist for one standard does not make you a conformist for all. Your choice to conform is based on your personal preferences and evident in personality thus making the conformity entirely based on who you are and the decisions you make.

So: Stop applying a scenario-specific term to such generalisations and you'll find the subject of conformity is pretty straight-forward.

[white_she_wolf]

I think we all conform in some way wether we like it or not. My friends and I are all diffrent and I suppose that in a way we conform because we choose to be diffrent so we are conforming to be diffrent while the other are conforming to be 'normal'.
I think that makes sense anyway. If it doesn't sorry.

[gingersnaps]

We do conform to certain points. At least one person sees the same things I do. lol Conforming is something hard to explain I think. You have one GROUP of people claiming to be different, isn't that conformity right there? Then there's other groups that conform to be "normal." But what IS normal anyways? Ok, I'm done rambling now.

[Teej]

As for this goth thing: What are the requirements of goth (dress codes, fave genres, specific actions, etc)? Do you meet those requirements? If yes - you're conforming to a standard whether you like it or not, otherwise you are not conforming to that standard.

Conformity is irrelevant to whether the requirements are being met willingly or not - just as long as they are being met then to that specific standard you're a conformist.


This is exactly what I was trying to get at.

[MyztDream]

We all conform, no matter what we do! I mean their really is no "individuality" anymore, because whenever someone comes up with a new and original idea about anything, it becomes a fad or the "thing to do" or "thing to be". Of course with today's lack of creativity by the majority of the population and with today's resources, it was bound to happen. (An example now would be those who say the hate America, just because they see celebrities bashing America. This is not to say that those who actually do research and make their own decisions are just melting in with the fad. I do not want this to be taken the wrong way.)

[DarkWolf]

I mean their really is no "individuality" anymore, because whenever someone comes up with a new and original idea about anythingThat doesn't make sense. You say there's no individuality and yet go on to say, in the same sentence, about new and originals ideas "someone" may have.

To acquire an example of individuality:

Purchase a snack item you have never eaten. Forget all you know or have heard about it. Go into an empty (in regard to people) room and eat that snack. Write down your opinion of the taste.

There you go. On that paper you have your individuality. Enjoy.

[HellSpawn]

Conformist

adj 1: marked by conformity or convention; not corresponding to current customs or rules or styles; "underneath the radical image teenagers are surprisingly conformist" [ant: nonconformist] 2: adhering to established customs or doctrines (especially in religion) [syn: conforming] n : someone who conforms to established standards of conduct (especially in religious matters) [ant: nonconformist]



con·form·ist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-fôrmst)
n.

A person who uncritically or habitually conforms to the customs, rules, or styles of a group.

adj.

Marked by conformity or convention: “Underneath the image, teenagers today are surprisingly conformist” (Selina S. Guber).

www.dictionary.com

[DarkWolf]

Thank you HellSpawn for the dictionary and irrelevant definitions of Conformist - but note that this is in the philosophy section because we're debating the application of conformity on the modern world's stereotypes in disregard to the usual empirical methods. Meaning: We know the literal definition and are discussing how much value those definitions put on today's conformity issues.

[Lycan_bites]

I think what he was trying to say is that even if someone comes up with something individual, it will soon be a new fad that others will try, thus rendering the individual idea to conformity. Everything becomes conforming in the end if you look at things in a very general way. However, although everyone conforms in some ways, they are non-conformists in another way. So basically I agree with DarkWolf.
It isn't just goths who are conforming, anyone who becomes a part of any social stereotype (eg.punk, chav, ect) is doing so. And anyone outside of those stereotypes are conforming in their own way too, because not everyone falls into a social stereotype.

[RebelDog]

It's true that if you delve into the infinite possibilities of what it means to be a conformist then yes we do all conform in one way or another, be it washing our hands after a crap or wearing certain clothes. But that is over-complicating the matter. Surely a "conformist" is simply someone who lives according to ideas established by a higher force, whether that force is religion, a political body, or even a social group such as punks or goths? That last example demonstrates very well how conformity works: During the 1970's when the punk movement started, the working class youth who had no work and no hopes for the future began to wear their clothes torn and ripped and held together with safetypins. Eventually this highly individualist statement became "fashionable" which forced it to evolve into the punk fashion we've come to know. It developed followers. And a "follower" is the ultimate conformist, even in a movement as rebellious as punk. But the point is, the individuals who followed punk followed an idea which came from a higher place than themselves - lots of other followers.

Individualists follow their own ideas. Conformists follow other people's ideas. That's about it.

Obviously we ALL have to follow "other people's ideas" when it comes to keeping on the right side of the law, going to work, shopping for food, bringing up kids, etc etc. But that's a generic type of conformity that has been established to keep society ticking over nicely. We conform to our political leaders and social architects in order to maintain the society we live in. That's a deal we make for having a society.

On a more individual basis, conformity comes from one place and one place alone: whether or not a person follows an idea that they did not think up.

So yes, all goths, punks, metal heads etc etc are conformists - not that this is a bad thing you understand. So too are the religious, the politically-motivated, the wealthy, and so on. In fact I will go so far as to say that it is actually natural to be a conformist, as all it really does is separates social groups into areas they feel they belong. True individualism is surely a very rare thing. I think we get hang-ups about conformity because we didn't think-up the movement that others choose to conform to.